So, My oppinion on Bioshock Infinate's ending has done a 180 (SPOILERS EN MASSE, ME HEARTIES)

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

On thursday, I bought Bioshock Infinate, hearing nothing but good things about it. I loved just about every part of the game... Until I beat it. I spiraled into a fit of anger after the shock of it wore off, half way through the ending credits. I've never pressed the escape key with passion that firey ever before in my life. I did however, respect the ending, unlike that other game who's name we all know, but for the better of us, I won't mention...
It may be important to mention that this is the first Bioshock game I have played. Despite this fact, I was absorbed into it.

Over this past day or so, I've pondered the game's ending in my brain, and it seems that now... I quite like the ending, and a lot of my reasons for liking it, are also the reasons I disliked it.

It was unexpected
I did myself the favour of not spoiling the game for myself, and I'm quite glad I didn't, because my god, I never saw that coming. *This is where the spoilers officially start, so leave now if you haven't beaten the game. Seriously, go.*
When Anna/Elizibeth said his names, I yelled out "No!" when I heard the other say Zachary Comstock, something that story telling works seldom make me do. I was in complete shock, unlike other stories that use this plot device, I never saw this coming, not for the life of me. Like Booker, I was consumed with ridding the world of that awful dick, and never saw that the dick was indeed... well, me. After the drowning, I was paralized with questions, with shock, with just pure emotion, yet to be forged into a describable feeling. That, that's moving. Had the game had a stereotypical action-packed ending, I wouldn't have gotten those feelz.

The game made you think like Booker
"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..." Is something I didn't quite get until about an hour after beating the game, and it was right there on my computer desk, because I reversed the cover. You are pretty much introduced into the game knowing only what Booker knows. You aren't omniscient, you are on the same grounds, because not even Booker knows everything about himself, and I just love how in those ending twenty minutes, you just are led through it all, with no choices to make, forcing you to realize the errors of your past. I actually felt guilty for the stuff Booker did because it consumed me so much. One of the reasons I didn't quite like it is because the end itself is a punch-in-the-fucking-face, but it only feels appropriate.

It's, well, Infinate
The title fits in so well. They establish the game like their is one fixed way, but the sort of essle you into the idea that this really isn't all there is, 10 or so minutes before the end, you see 100 diffirent incarnations of you and Elizibeth going to diffirent lighthouses, all with diffirent variables. The epilogue (Which I didn't watch, but read about) sort of confirms this. I just got the idea that it was the end, like every other game, but in truth, it wasn't. It was just the end of that variable.

I still don't understand parts of it, like why would Booker sacrafice himself, besides the need for dramatic effect. I mean, the incarnation of Booker that is drowned is past the rebirth point, so killing him seems pointless, along with the theory of infinity that is emplaced, can Comstock really ever be ended? Or anything, for that manner.

Overall, now that I've thought through it, I do really enjoy it, I had a lot of fun going through all it put me through.
So, what do you guys think about the ending?

 

[amuasyeas]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

 

[scorptatious]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

I really wish people would stop using the term "dumbed down". It's been thrown around way too much and it reeks of pretentiousness.

Granted, I did prefer the first game's mechanics, but I don't think Infinite needed to be exactly like Bioshock 1.

OT: I'll admit, the twist at the end came out of left field and I was pretty surprised. I was kinda down for a little bit, as part of me wanted Booker and Elizabeth to live happily in some way. I guess it could happen if the epilogue has anything to say about it, but it's left pretty vague about what's going happen with Booker and Anna. Now that the possibility of Comstock being born is gone forever, Booker won't sell Anna to the Luteces, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't sell her.

Who knows though, maybe there's a reality where Booker somehow pays his debts without selling Anna and they could live happily together. That's me being optimistic though.

 

[amuasyeas]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

I really wish people would stop using the term "dumbed down". It's been thrown around way too much and it reeks of pretentiousness.

Granted, I did prefer the first game's mechanics, but I don't think Infinite needed to be exactly like Bioshock 1.

OT: I'll admit, the twist at the end came out of left field and I was pretty surprised. I was kinda down for a little bit, as part of me wanted Booker and Elizabeth to live happily in some way. I guess it could happen if the epilogue has anything to say about it, but it's left pretty vague about what's going happen with Booker and Anna. Now that the possibility of Comstock being born is gone forever, Booker won't sell Anna to the Luteces, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't sell her.

Who knows though, maybe there's a reality where Booker somehow pays his debts without selling Anna and they could live happily together. That's me being optimistic though.

IT WAS. A "Shock" game is implied to have some sort of RPG mechanics, which Infinite does not have at all beyond weapon/vigor upgrades and a basic shield/health/mana boost. System Shock 2 had a class system, basic stats, weapon skills, different ammo types, weapon repairing, hacking, 4 different melee weapons, psionic powers, armor, implants, a grid based inventory system, and large open maps you can revisit any time. 1999 mode my ass.

 

[anthony87]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

I really wish people would stop using the term "dumbed down". It's been thrown around way too much and it reeks of pretentiousness.

Granted, I did prefer the first game's mechanics, but I don't think Infinite needed to be exactly like Bioshock 1.

OT: I'll admit, the twist at the end came out of left field and I was pretty surprised. I was kinda down for a little bit, as part of me wanted Booker and Elizabeth to live happily in some way. I guess it could happen if the epilogue has anything to say about it, but it's left pretty vague about what's going happen with Booker and Anna. Now that the possibility of Comstock being born is gone forever, Booker won't sell Anna to the Luteces, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't sell her.

Who knows though, maybe there's a reality where Booker somehow pays his debts without selling Anna and they could live happily together. That's me being optimistic though.

IT WAS. A "Shock" game is implied to have some sort of RPG mechanics, which Infinite does not have at all beyond weapon/vigor upgrades and a basic shield/health/mana boost. System Shock 2 had a class system, basic stats, weapon skills, different ammo types, weapon repairing, hacking, 4 different melee weapons, psionic powers, armor, implants, a grid based inventory system, and large open maps you can revisit any time. 1999 mode my ass.

So....you didn't like it because it's not System Shock 2?

 

[amuasyeas]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

cut.

So....you didn't like it because it's not System Shock 2?

I didn't like it because the gameplay became more and more boring and more like a generic FPS than anything else.

 

[anthony87]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

cut.

So....you didn't like it because it's not System Shock 2?

I didn't like it because the gameplay became more and more boring and more like a generic FPS than anything else.

If you say so. I've never played System Shock but I thought that the first Bioshock was crap while I loved Infinite but hey, different strokes and all that jazz.

 

[WanderingFool]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

I really wish people would stop using the term "dumbed down". It's been thrown around way too much and it reeks of pretentiousness.

Granted, I did prefer the first game's mechanics, but I don't think Infinite needed to be exactly like Bioshock 1.

OT: I'll admit, the twist at the end came out of left field and I was pretty surprised. I was kinda down for a little bit, as part of me wanted Booker and Elizabeth to live happily in some way. I guess it could happen if the epilogue has anything to say about it, but it's left pretty vague about what's going happen with Booker and Anna. Now that the possibility of Comstock being born is gone forever, Booker won't sell Anna to the Luteces, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't sell her.

Who knows though, maybe there's a reality where Booker somehow pays his debts without selling Anna and they could live happily together. That's me being optimistic though.

IT WAS. A "Shock" game is implied to have some sort of RPG mechanics, which Infinite does not have at all beyond weapon/vigor upgrades and a basic shield/health/mana boost. System Shock 2 had a class system, basic stats, weapon skills, different ammo types, weapon repairing, hacking, 4 different melee weapons, psionic powers, armor, implants, a grid based inventory system, and large open maps you can revisit any time. 1999 mode my ass.

So, this isnt a criticism of the game, so much as the relation of the Bioshock series to the System Shock series.

Thats makes sense...

 

[amuasyeas]

I'm complaining because the game is generic as hell once the novelty of a sky city fades.

 

[TheDoctor455]

On thursday, I bought Bioshock Infinate, hearing nothing but good things about it. I loved just about every part of the game... Until I beat it. I spiraled into a fit of anger after the shock of it wore off, half way through the ending credits. I've never pressed the escape key with passion that firey ever before in my life. I did however, respect the ending, unlike that other game who's name we all know, but for the better of us, I won't mention...
It may be important to mention that this is the first Bioshock game I have played. Despite this fact, I was absorbed into it.

Over this past day or so, I've pondered the game's ending in my brain, and it seems that now... I quite like the ending, and a lot of my reasons for liking it, are also the reasons I disliked it.

It was unexpected
I did myself the favour of not spoiling the game for myself, and I'm quite glad I didn't, because my god, I never saw that coming. *This is where the spoilers officially start, so leave now if you haven't beaten the game. Seriously, go.*
When Anna/Elizibeth said his names, I yelled out "No!" when I heard the other say Zachary Comstock, something that story telling works seldom make me do. I was in complete shock, unlike other stories that use this plot device, I never saw this coming, not for the life of me. Like Booker, I was consumed with ridding the world of that awful dick, and never saw that the dick was indeed... well, me. After the drowning, I was paralized with questions, with shock, with just pure emotion, yet to be forged into a describable feeling. That, that's moving. Had the game had a stereotypical action-packed ending, I wouldn't have gotten those feelz.

The game made you think like Booker
"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..." Is something I didn't quite get until about an hour after beating the game, and it was right there on my computer desk, because I reversed the cover. You are pretty much introduced into the game knowing only what Booker knows. You aren't omniscient, you are on the same grounds, because not even Booker knows everything about himself, and I just love how in those ending twenty minutes, you just are led through it all, with no choices to make, forcing you to realize the errors of your past. I actually felt guilty for the stuff Booker did because it consumed me so much. One of the reasons I didn't quite like it is because the end itself is a punch-in-the-fucking-face, but it only feels appropriate.

It's, well, Infinate
The title fits in so well. They establish the game like their is one fixed way, but the sort of essle you into the idea that this really isn't all there is, 10 or so minutes before the end, you see 100 diffirent incarnations of you and Elizibeth going to diffirent lighthouses, all with diffirent variables. The epilogue (Which I didn't watch, but read about) sort of confirms this. I just got the idea that it was the end, like every other game, but in truth, it wasn't. It was just the end of that variable.

I still don't understand parts of it, like why would Booker sacrafice himself, besides the need for dramatic effect. I mean, the incarnation of Booker that is drowned is past the rebirth point, so killing him seems pointless, along with the theory of infinity that is emplaced, can Comstock really ever be ended? Or anything, for that manner.

Overall, now that I've thought through it, I do really enjoy it, I had a lot of fun going through all it put me through.
So, what do you guys think about the ending?

I liked the ending. But I didn't take the 'reality manipulation' part too seriously, and instead saw it as a metaphor for Booker's/Comstock's character arc. I.E. both characters are suicidal after Wounded Knee and working for the Pinkertons... the difference between them is where they channel the hatred they both have bottled up in them...

Booker directs it at himself, almost exclusively... and lashes out at others around him in more... personal ways than Comstock.

Comstock on the other hand, directs it at everyone that doesn't resemble himself in some way... and lashes out at the world in general.

The limitless number of alternate realities where either Booker or Comstock exist means that these are the two main divergent paths for Dewitt to take... and that, in a sense, he's already tried to rework and choose differently an infinite number of times before (in his head)... and it always comes up to slight variations on the same two outcomes.

As for the drowning him now part...

Remember that Anna/Elizabeth can alter reality by shifting it around... and after the Siphon is destroyed, her control over her abilities is now virtually limitless (as seen by her essentially merging a number of different realities together in order to demonstrate to Booker how close these different universes really are)...

and so... at the point when she drowns you... you could take it as she's simultaneously drowning all versions of Booker before he made the choice to either accept or reject the baptism. (this can be inferred since there are multiple versions of Elizabeth/Anna present at the drowning)

Also... Booker accepting his death then is him accepting responsibility for his actions, and paying the price he feels he needs to pay. Or rather... he's accepting his death because it releases him from the years of self-hatred all versions of him have been suffering from.

How do I know he hates himself?

Remember the little chat you have with Elizabeth shortly after the first time she sees you kill anyone?

Elizabeth: You're a monster!

And then notice how Booker doesn't argue the point, but rather defends the necessity of the violence happening in the first place.

 

[The_Echo]

IT WAS. A "Shock" game is implied to have some sort of RPG mechanics, which Infinite does not have at all beyond weapon/vigor upgrades and a basic shield/health/mana boost. System Shock 2 had a class system, basic stats, weapon skills, different ammo types, weapon repairing, hacking, 4 different melee weapons, psionic powers, armor, implants, a grid based inventory system, and large open maps you can revisit any time. 1999 mode my ass.

Do you, uh... do you think that all of that would have actually helped BioShock Infinite? Because, I think that would actually bog the game down and worsen the experience. The game's paced in such a way that many of those things would work to make the game feel slower.

Removing features doesn't "dumb it down." And even if it did, does that make it worse? Just because it wasn't like its spiritual predecessor? Treat Infinite as its own game and judge it on its own merits.

OT: I'm glad you wound up liking it, OP. I thought Infinite was a great narrative experience and a super fun game despite. The ending was really inventive, and the success of this game might encourage other developers to be just as, if not more, creative.

 

[amuasyeas]

IT WAS. A "Shock" game is implied to have some sort of RPG mechanics, which Infinite does not have at all beyond weapon/vigor upgrades and a basic shield/health/mana boost. System Shock 2 had a class system, basic stats, weapon skills, different ammo types, weapon repairing, hacking, 4 different melee weapons, psionic powers, armor, implants, a grid based inventory system, and large open maps you can revisit any time. 1999 mode my ass.

Do you, uh... do you think that all of that would have actually helped BioShock Infinite? Because, I think that would actually bog the game down and worsen the experience. The game's paced in such a way that many of those things would work to make the game feel slower.

Removing features doesn't "dumb it down." And even if it did, does that make it worse? Just because it wasn't like its spiritual predecessor? Treat Infinite as its own game and judge it on its own merits.

OT: I'm glad you wound up liking it, OP. I thought Infinite was a great narrative experience and a super fun game despite. The ending was really inventive, and the success of this game might encourage other developers to be just as, if not more, creative.

YES IT DOES. All the features have been cut to the point that it's almost no different from Call of Duty. There's a difference between tailoring clothing and removing all the stitching. The narrative was stupid, it was practically a sub-par Doctor Who episode. THEY removed the inventory so you feel good about Elizabeth when she throws you stuff. Heck, most of the awards the game won that are displayed on the boxart were for gameplay that was REMOVED.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

IT WAS. A "Shock" game is implied to have some sort of RPG mechanics, which Infinite does not have at all beyond weapon/vigor upgrades and a basic shield/health/mana boost. System Shock 2 had a class system, basic stats, weapon skills, different ammo types, weapon repairing, hacking, 4 different melee weapons, psionic powers, armor, implants, a grid based inventory system, and large open maps you can revisit any time. 1999 mode my ass.

Do you, uh... do you think that all of that would have actually helped BioShock Infinite? Because, I think that would actually bog the game down and worsen the experience. The game's paced in such a way that many of those things would work to make the game feel slower.

Removing features doesn't "dumb it down." And even if it did, does that make it worse? Just because it wasn't like its spiritual predecessor? Treat Infinite as its own game and judge it on its own merits.

OT: I'm glad you wound up liking it, OP. I thought Infinite was a great narrative experience and a super fun game despite. The ending was really inventive, and the success of this game might encourage other developers to be just as, if not more, creative.

YES IT DOES. All the features have been cut to the point that it's almost no different from Call of Duty. There's a difference between tailoring clothing and removing all the stitching. The narrative was stupid, it was practically a sub-par Doctor Who episode. THEY removed the inventory so you feel good about Elizabeth when she throws you stuff. Heck, most of the awards the game won that are displayed on the boxart were for gameplay that was REMOVED.

Someone seems to be chanelling TotalBiscuit.

Personally, the shooting never got in the way of the story for me; I prefer a good story over mechanics.

Also, Call of Duty has guns and only guns, with some scripted turret or vehicle/aircraft sections.

Bioshock Infinite has magical powers and you can ride on Skylines.

Also, no grenades, enemy variety and no unexplained constantly respawning enemies.

 

[rbstewart7263]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

I really wish people would stop using the term "dumbed down". It's been thrown around way too much and it reeks of pretentiousness.

Granted, I did prefer the first game's mechanics, but I don't think Infinite needed to be exactly like Bioshock 1.

OT: I'll admit, the twist at the end came out of left field and I was pretty surprised. I was kinda down for a little bit, as part of me wanted Booker and Elizabeth to live happily in some way. I guess it could happen if the epilogue has anything to say about it, but it's left pretty vague about what's going happen with Booker and Anna. Now that the possibility of Comstock being born is gone forever, Booker won't sell Anna to the Luteces, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't sell her.

Who knows though, maybe there's a reality where Booker somehow pays his debts without selling Anna and they could live happily together. That's me being optimistic though.

Everything from this too "its too violent" reaks of pretentious hipsterism.

 

[amuasyeas]

The vigors were boring to use compared to the other games, and the skylines were poorly implemented.

 

[scorptatious]

Everything from this too "its too violent" reaks of pretentious hipsterism.

That's another thing that I find kinda odd. The Bioshock games have always been violent. I'll admit, I kinda wished Infinite gave you more opportunities to explore the world and take a break from the combat. But other than that, I never had a problem with the violence.

 

[amuasyeas]

Everything from this too "its too violent" reaks of pretentious hipsterism.

That's another thing that I find kinda odd. The Bioshock games have always been violent. I'll admit, I kinda wished Infinite gave you more opportunities to explore the world and take a break from the combat. But other than that, I never had a problem with the violence.

Yes, this is what I wanted. I wouldn't have minded the story if the gameplay was half decent. Sadly, this was not the case. I thought it was going to play like Skyward Sword with a semi-sandbox the way the developers said it.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't sell her.

Who knows though, maybe there's a reality where Booker somehow pays his debts without selling Anna and they could live happily together. That's me being optimistic though.

But who would just randomly buy a baby? Child Services?

The reason he sold Anna in the first place was because someone wanted to buy her, and he heavily regreted his decision. Had the person he sold it to not escape through a trans-dimensional worm hole, ending the deal would be a lot simpler.

It's a matter of supply and demand. What demand is there for a child, when you could just have your own?
Adoption, that would seem more likely to happen, in the harsh reality of Booker being a bad guy and such.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

It was a severely dumbed-down game with a pseudo-intellectual plot ridden with holes.

I really wish people would stop using the term "dumbed down". It's been thrown around way too much and it reeks of pretentiousness.

It's actually the campaign against the term which reeks of pretentiousness, because it takes it as pejorative when it need not be. "Dumbing down" is perfectly apt for the phenomenon which is taking place in recent years in gaming, and companies will be the first to tell you that making games dumber is generally good for business. And finally it doesn't necessarily say anything about the audience that the games are being dumbed down. A Nobel Prizewinner might enjoy a dumb game but that doesn't make him dumb. Some of us just like simple, easy and linear games.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

Everything from this too "its too violent" reaks of pretentious hipsterism.

I thought the violence was appropriate. In the game, you started rooting for the vox populi after figuring out that the founders are racist ass-holes, but then you find out they are genocidal maniacs, and you start to take all of that back... Then of course you find out that Comstock is a genocidal maniac as well, and you just end up hating everyone.