The rule of thumb with any EU is the primary material (for Star Wars, the 6 live action films and the Clone Wars tv show) are, along with statements from the head creative person (Lucas in this case) are absolute canon. Everything else can be considered canon until the "main" canon contradicts it. So yeah, episodes VII-IX are probably going to disregard the current EU timeline which will be relegated to an alternate universe at best. Anything from the that can still work without breaking established top tier canon can still be considered soft canon. Darth Bane can easily still exist, because he lived way before any of the films, and KOTOR too for the same reasons. But yeah, Thrawn, Talon Karde, Mara Jade, Jaycen Solo, all that stuff's almost definitely no longer main universe canon.
So,,, technically KOTOR never happened and Kyle Katarn probably isn't a Jedi anymore...
- Thread starter Echopunk
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Yep movies are first teir cannon tv shows are second tier everthing else is thirdAbomination said:
It's probably better to always be fairly flexible with canon. If you enjoyed watching/reading/playing something information you gain much later after that enjoyable experience doesn't lessen the fun you had with at all right? So suddenly something being made uncannon doesn't have to change what it already is
It's not that they're necessarily retconning anything, it's more so that they're going to have to shovel aside at least part of the Expanded Universe to make way for their movies. Also, depending on the content of said movies, they could end up indirectly retconning most if not all of the EU that follows.DoPo said:
besides not liking many many many parallel universes of something, what new post-ROTJ stuff would suggest...
...anything new without the yuu... the gorramn yuu... i am sorry, i cannot even talk about that crap ^^
where was i? oh yes, so: anything new, as in: without the yuu... is good in my book
...anything new without the yuu... the gorramn yuu... i am sorry, i cannot even talk about that crap ^^
where was i? oh yes, so: anything new, as in: without the yuu... is good in my book
I may only have done 3 planets and 20 levels with two Republic characters but I can't see your point. So far it's one of the most immersive stories in an MMO I've ever experienced.Jack the Potato said:
Now I'm a bit fed up that the newest update broke the launcher and I, along with many apparently, can't get in since a few days ago but that's not the game's fault per se.
We all need to look at this differently. Why don't we wait to see if Disney delivers award winning movies, a thing of which I have great doubts. If Disney is the failure we all anticipate then we'll all agree that Lucas is the only canon for the series. I mean the fans dictate a series of this magnitude, and we have so much source material to work with presently.
I think in the end if the series is changed in the slightest there will be a divide in Star Wars fandom between the "Old" and "New" Testament. A much more serious rift than prequel vs. original, or even pre/post special edition.
I think in the end if the series is changed in the slightest there will be a divide in Star Wars fandom between the "Old" and "New" Testament. A much more serious rift than prequel vs. original, or even pre/post special edition.
Trust me, late game story developments will be truly disappointing, despite how good it seems in the beginning. I know, I was in the same mindset you are.Quaxar said:
I don't think canon works that way, but I definitely expect Disney to just outright say that the post VI EU novels don't count because they don't want to be stuck adapting stuff. Plus Luke plays a direct role in saving the galaxy like what, 10 times? It's just not good storytelling.
Now, the way it's worked before is that you have varying levels of canon, movies (G level), the Clone Wars TV show (T level), then the comics, novels, and games (C level). After that you have some questionable one shots and possibly the old Marvel comics (S level), but a lot of the Marvel stuff has been uplifted so to speak by being referenced to in the Dark Horse ones and novels, so certain aspects of the Marvel continuity is now a higher degree of canon.
Right now I'm sure Disney wants to have a big, marketable, family friendly franchise with the new Star Wars trilogy, but they also currently have the cartoon. I doubt they'd want to confuse younger audiences with all this canon stuff (like declaring that the cartoon they grew up on never happened) so that's safe. What I see happening is something similar to what happened with the Marvel comics and the S level stuff, the EU is also referenced to in the cartoon - Arc Troopers, Republic Commandos, Dathomir witches, etc. so I expect that the new movies might pick and choose what stuff they want to keep and work with (it's happened before, the name "Coruscant" actually appears first in the novels and is then used in the movies).
Now, the way it's worked before is that you have varying levels of canon, movies (G level), the Clone Wars TV show (T level), then the comics, novels, and games (C level). After that you have some questionable one shots and possibly the old Marvel comics (S level), but a lot of the Marvel stuff has been uplifted so to speak by being referenced to in the Dark Horse ones and novels, so certain aspects of the Marvel continuity is now a higher degree of canon.
Right now I'm sure Disney wants to have a big, marketable, family friendly franchise with the new Star Wars trilogy, but they also currently have the cartoon. I doubt they'd want to confuse younger audiences with all this canon stuff (like declaring that the cartoon they grew up on never happened) so that's safe. What I see happening is something similar to what happened with the Marvel comics and the S level stuff, the EU is also referenced to in the cartoon - Arc Troopers, Republic Commandos, Dathomir witches, etc. so I expect that the new movies might pick and choose what stuff they want to keep and work with (it's happened before, the name "Coruscant" actually appears first in the novels and is then used in the movies).
I know this sounds harsh, but I can't wait for George to pass on. I hate the idea of the 'Force' being curable. I also wish there were more Grey Jedi instead of Light, Dark, and the people that can't make up their minds...
Lucas said all the stuff that people did outside of the movies never was part of the main canon either, so this is nothing new. He realized what a goldmine it was to let people run wild with his creations, so they did, and thus we got the extended universe. Disney will have a tighter control over licensing, but no doubt they'll do the same sorts of things, because it makes them money.
You've probably noticed by now that making boatloads of cash overrides most creators' objections to messing with the artistic integrity of whatever it is they've designed, and I sure can't say I blame them.
You've probably noticed by now that making boatloads of cash overrides most creators' objections to messing with the artistic integrity of whatever it is they've designed, and I sure can't say I blame them.
While I'm not as informed on the whole Star Wars mythos as the OP here, my view on the matter is that nothing really changes. Disney might end up de-legitimising the Expanded Universe, but those things were canon at the time of their release; if you want to you can still regard them as canon. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a canon version of the Darth Revan storyline that's referenced in the books and graphic novels? That fact still doesn't stop people from seeing their KoToR Revan as the one true Revan - everyone does to some extent.
Disney retconning the EU doesn't mean you can't enjoy them anymore, it doesn't make them automatically wrong and it doesn't mean they're 'non-canon' just because it doesn't fit in with Disney's new Star Wars. I think people are getting too caught up the technicalities, that's just my two cents.
Disney retconning the EU doesn't mean you can't enjoy them anymore, it doesn't make them automatically wrong and it doesn't mean they're 'non-canon' just because it doesn't fit in with Disney's new Star Wars. I think people are getting too caught up the technicalities, that's just my two cents.
Delicious, delicious death.Hoplon said:
OT: ....
Yeah, sorry, gotta jump on "the extended universe sucks" bandwagon here. Little/nothing of value has been lost. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they threw the prequel trilogy on the non-canon pile as well.
lol that metaphor to the true quagmire that was the op had me rolling in laughter. But on a serious note, who cares if they arent canon (kotor/jedi knight etc.) you can still enjoy the narratives of them. i dont see why it matters up to a certain point. better for the new films to tread new ground than old. though it will probably be reductive, mass appeal ground a la abrams take on star trekZhukov said:
OH GOD!!! WHY DID I TAKE THE RED PILL?!! WHY?!!?!?!Hero in a half shell said:Hello.Zhukov said:
I imagine that right now you're feeling a bit like Alice: Tumbling down the rabbit hole.
Take the blue pill, and you can exit the rabbit hole, go home, and believe whatever you want to believe.
Take the red pill and I show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Where'd that green pill come from? Oh nevermind, I'm sure it's not important.
OP: Make your own cannon, to hell with what some company says. Choose the stories you like, assemble them in the ways you want. The thing is, with anything creative, the imagination of the fans is just as much a part (if not a bigger part as that's where those characters become real) of that work as the creator's.
I know I personally have my own Resident Evil cannon that burns everything post 4.
Mind you it's far easier to equate this idea with Comics, as they are constantly getting retconned.
See, when you started talking about prequel era stuff, I immediately lost interest. Now, if we want to get into Jaina, Tenel Ka, Tahiri, Jacen, Anakin (Solo), and all the second generation heroes (basically the kids of the heroes from the movies), then I'm all ears.
I'm hoping that Disney finds a way to keep the Expanded Universe mostly in tact. I figure that, if they do a time jump of twenty years or so (like between Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars), they would have a clean slate to write with, but still have the E.U. there.
If they do utterly destroy the E.U., then I hope the Star Wars book authors don't abandon it. I've grown up following these characters. It would break my heart to never read any stories about them again.
I'm hoping that Disney finds a way to keep the Expanded Universe mostly in tact. I figure that, if they do a time jump of twenty years or so (like between Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars), they would have a clean slate to write with, but still have the E.U. there.
If they do utterly destroy the E.U., then I hope the Star Wars book authors don't abandon it. I've grown up following these characters. It would break my heart to never read any stories about them again.