So the EU just ruled that it's legal to re-sell digital versions of games.

[Krion_Vark]

Hehe, the publishers are already up in arms about physical used games reselling, i'm sure they'll be ecstatic about digital resell...

Although this way, if they set up their own system, they could take a cut of the money.I don't think they should, but they surely will.So the cut gamestop/whatever store takes could be taken by the publisher instead, i guess it wouldn't be so bad for everyone involved...

I don't hate used sales. I hate Gamestops used sales. A day after release and selling a game for 5 dollars cheaper.

 

[wintercoat]

It's a transfer of license/ownership, similar to how car titles are transfered. Consumers have rights, they gotta deal with it.

It's not like they've lost money at all, they complain the millions in profit they make aren't enough every damn quarter even though their income climbs

A computer game isnt a car, you give the physical car and the right to use it to somebody else. With a computer game you give them the license to use the game not the game itself, the compnay will have to provide them with the game.

Of course the company has lost money 60 euros/dollars for a new game vs whatever portion of the sale the company is going to take from what you sold it for.

And this ruling said the license thing is BS and that you own products you purchase, digital or physical. It's basic property rights same as any other product. EULAs and TOSs mean nothing in courts and are almost always thrown out because they're too far reaching.

They have been screwing paying customers and treating us like criminals for a decade, it's time they accomodate consumers for a change.

You do know that the easiest way for them to circumvent this is just to put an actual time on your games?
it is at the core of the issue that since there is no expiration date on to licence it is a purchase and the basic proberty right kicks in. However you put in a timer it becomes a lease and then you get the same thing as before, just slightly worse since they then have a lot more rights over the product.

Well, they could set the lease agreement for any amount of time with unlimited, free renewals on the lease. Hell, they could even make it an automatic renewal with a tick box on your profile for each game for whether or not you would like to renew, defaulted to ticked. It would get around this law, close down the "but it's a product, not a service" argument, all without changing their current distributor/client relationship in any meaningful way. And if the rumored change that would allow trading of activated games on Steam actually happens, well, it's not illegal to sign over a lease to another individual, provided the owner of the lease allows it.

It all really depends on how the digital distributors end up handling it. The balls in their court now, we just have to wait and see how they play. Chances are, Valve will handle it the way they handle everything...with new themed TF2 hats.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Enforcing making games unusable is probably going to require an internet connection and a server monitoring user data and which game people can and can't use. Que the DRM hate machine!

This actually seems reasonable. Its like selling a used game afterall. The problem is, as it has been, the logistics on how you ensure a new copy isn't created in the process.

 

[him over there]

I don't understand the logic of selling a digital copy. A digital copy cannot degrade therefore it would be the exact same price as a retail copy defeating the purpose of buying used. So we have a situation where there's no advantage or disadvantage to buying used while selling your used games functions merely as a return service, forfeiting your copy and acquiring money equal to what you paid for it.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

What the hell is going on over there, Europe? A judge made a ruling that makes sense? Can't you have him recalled or something?

I hope this catches on in the United States. Retail is increasingly sophisticated and the law is quickly passing from dated to senile. And yes, there are obviously technological hurdles to overcome before something like this works while anticipating every imaginable abuse, but Jesus folks. Let's try to be problem solvers shall we? Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome. I made that up (I didn't).

Maybe BarelySoiledGames.com will put GAMESTOP out of business when EA abandons physical copies next week. Maybe they will facilitate legal used sales for the major digital distributors and even between platforms. Maybe they will provide a cut of the used market to developers by paying for the right to perform their services on Steam, Origin, and other distributors.

Don't hate the used market so much it doesn't even occur to you to solve the problem (you know, if you call it one for some reason).

 

[viranimus]

LOL as if legality was holding companies back from reselling digital property.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

From the Court of Justice of the European Union: "An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet."

Basically it means that if you are in the EU, it's perfectly legal to re-sell any game you bought on Steam, Origin, or any other digital store. Regardless of what any EULA says. Of course it remains to be seen if EA, Valve, and the other digital stores will make changes to how their services work to allow this, since if you buy something using Steam or Origin, the game's tied to one account.

There is one condition, however. If you resell a license to a game you have to make your copy "unusable at the time of resale".

"If he continued to use it," the Court explained, "he would infringe the copyright holder's exclusive right of reproduction of his computer program. In contrast to the exclusive right of distribution, the exclusive right of reproduction is not exhausted by the first sale."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-03-eu-rules-publishers-cannot-stop-you-reselling-your-downloaded-games

I for one love it, and hope it spreads to the US. What are your thoughts on the matter?

bison knows his stuff

OT: seriously this is amazing news, not only is this right, but it will actually scare publishers into not shoveling out the same garbage and basically saying "hah! we got your 60 dollars now, we don't give a fuck what's wrong with the game/what you think!"

 

[lacktheknack]

*donated my couch to Goodwill, got no money for it

How does it affect YOU if I'm buying new? If anything, I'm helping keep the gaming business from crashing down on itself.

It doesn't, I'm just pointing out that the idea that developers should get a cut off of second hand sales is ludicrous.

Which is why I'm not a fan of digital version second-hand sales in the first place.

It's good for the customer, it's absolutely tragic for the games industry. Don't you roll your eyes at me, games cost a massive amount of money to make, and anything that results in less money going back into the publishers and devs is bad in my eyes. We can hardly get them to do interesting risks as it is!

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Basically it means that if you are in the EU, it's perfectly legal to re-sell any game you bought on Steam, Origin, or any other digital store. Regardless of what any EULA says. Of course it remains to be seen if EA, Valve, and the other digital stores will make changes to how their services work to allow this, since if you buy something using Steam or Origin, the game's tied to one account.

They don't have a choice. EULA is not a legally binding document.

 

[Nikolaz72]

I am becoming more and more envious of Europe. America would never pass this not matter how much sense it makes. Though I do see a issue. If someone has the right to sell a license then they should also have the right to gift a pre-existing one.

So, how is Steam going to make any money if groups of friends just freely pass their games around and even receive their games back? For example, I borrow Max Payne 3 from a friend and then simply give it back to him when I am done.

Well, what about making it a core part of steam. And setting a minimum of, I dunno.. 5 bucks, then they take 20% of the sale because, Hey. They own the transfer service.

It is a 'legal' part of the EULA that you cannot share your media beyond private use. So giving out free to your friends so they dont have to buy it is technically illegal (Like piracy though, a crime without punishment) So enforcing you to say, sell it for at least for *one* dollar (that goes to Steam) under the guise of the money it takes for the system to do its job. Wouldnt be illegal. (Paypal does it, with money) And aslong as steam can not only get profits from selling the game, but will keep making profits off of people selling the same game 'again' well.. Isnt it what the publishers have always dreamt of? Eliminating Gamestop and taking the resell profits. Being able to sell the same product more than once, with the costumers actually being happy about it. In my thoughts its always been a corporation wetdream.

 

[lapan]

Which is why I'm not a fan of digital version second-hand sales in the first place.

It's good for the customer, it's absolutely tragic for the games industry. Don't you roll your eyes at me, games cost a massive amount of money to make, and anything that results in less money going back into the publishers and devs is bad in my eyes. We can hardly get them to do interesting risks as it is!

Read this:

Well, what about making it a core part of steam. And setting a minimum of, I dunno.. 5 bucks, then they take 20% of the sale because, Hey. They own the transfer service.

It is a 'legal' part of the EULA that you cannot share your media beyond private use. So giving out free to your friends so they dont have to buy it is technically illegal (Like piracy though, a crime without punishment) So enforcing you to say, sell it for at least for *one* dollar (that goes to Steam) under the guise of the money it takes for the system to do its job. Wouldnt be illegal. (Paypal does it, with money) And aslong as steam can not only get profits from selling the game, but will keep making profits off of people selling the same game 'again' well.. Isnt it what the publishers have always dreamt of? Eliminating Gamestop and taking the resell profits. Being able to sell the same product more than once, with the costumers actually being happy about it. In my thoughts its always been a corporation wetdream.

If the download service belongs to the company they can simply take cuts of the money.

 

[lacktheknack]

Which is why I'm not a fan of digital version second-hand sales in the first place.

It's good for the customer, it's absolutely tragic for the games industry. Don't you roll your eyes at me, games cost a massive amount of money to make, and anything that results in less money going back into the publishers and devs is bad in my eyes. We can hardly get them to do interesting risks as it is!

Read this:

Well, what about making it a core part of steam. And setting a minimum of, I dunno.. 5 bucks, then they take 20% of the sale because, Hey. They own the transfer service.

It is a 'legal' part of the EULA that you cannot share your media beyond private use. So giving out free to your friends so they dont have to buy it is technically illegal (Like piracy though, a crime without punishment) So enforcing you to say, sell it for at least for *one* dollar (that goes to Steam) under the guise of the money it takes for the system to do its job. Wouldnt be illegal. (Paypal does it, with money) And aslong as steam can not only get profits from selling the game, but will keep making profits off of people selling the same game 'again' well.. Isnt it what the publishers have always dreamt of? Eliminating Gamestop and taking the resell profits. Being able to sell the same product more than once, with the costumers actually being happy about it. In my thoughts its always been a corporation wetdream.

If the download service belongs to the company they can simply take cuts of the money.

Good for Valve, and maybe EA and CD Projekt.

Sucks to be Ubisoft, Activision, Popcap, etc.

 

[lapan]

Major problem here.
How does a developer get a cut by this?

I see how the owner of the distribution gets his cut. How does the guys who are actually making the game get a cut?

Also what is preventing me from giving the games away to my friends? what is 20% of nothing?

Probably depends on their contract with the publisher. If they get royalities for every sold copy, they might get a cut of that cut as well.

The fact that giving it away for free != a sale prevents you from simply giving it away. As to giving it away for really cheap: They could charge a fixed fee instead of percentages to cash in on low value resales.

 

[lapan]

Major problem here.
How does a developer get a cut by this?

I see how the owner of the distribution gets his cut. How does the guys who are actually making the game get a cut?

Also what is preventing me from giving the games away to my friends? what is 20% of nothing?

Probably depends on their contract with the publisher. If they get royalities for every sold copy, they might get a cut of that cut as well.

The fact that giving it away for free != a sale prevents you from simply giving it away. As to giving it away for really cheap: They could charge a fixed fee instead of percentages to cash in on low value resales.

The problem is the publisher can be cut out of the deal as well. It is all on the mercy on the facilitator of the digital resale. There is nothing that says the facilitator has to give a cut to the publisher. It is Gamestop all over again. Just in the digital realm.

The thing is giving it a bit of thought Valve could screw over every major publisher they are distributing for making the same profit they do per original sale. They could use their distribution to setup a digital version of Gamestop and just take a fee equal to their cut on a new sale. They have the legal rights to do that now (at least in the EU).

We will just have to see how those companies will adapt to this. For now it's hard to say in advance. Maybe they will now create their own download services or work out deals with steam or origin.