So the Netherland is banning foreigners from buying weed.

[Eggsnham]

I am Dutch myself so it wont affect me.

I rather have that they made it plain legal for everyone. Right now the sell of Marjiuana in Coffeeshops is tolerated but still "Illegal". The whole area is a little grey being on neither side.

Either ban the stuff all together or make it completly legal.

That kinda reminds me of the dispensaries here in the states.

Whenever a certain state government legalizes it and starts distributing it, the federal government tends to send DEA folks over to these areas and take them down.

Then, because of the state government, they just get set right back up again.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[unoleian]

It's always a good idea to push highly-sought, potentially illicit items back into the black market where they belong, where product and money movement are so much easily tracked and more easily controlled, and violence and crime are never any issues.

Brilliant.

 

[Iron Mal]

I fail to see how preventing people from travelling abroad for the sole purpose of obtaining illegal drugs is a bad thing, I honestly wouldn't be too happy with my local cafe or cornershop getting overrun in the summer with people who are there purely because they want to get high without getting their arses hauled away by the police.

Sure, not all drug tourists are bad but by the same token I'm pretty sure that a significant number of them are, I'm not convinced that the whole thing is harmless.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I don't understand why people are so angry about this legislation. The reason parliament wants to do this is because for around 10 years or so whenever it comes to tourism the Netherlands has been associated with drug use. Let's face it, whenever anyone thinks of the Netherlands the first thing that pops to mind is that marijuana use is tolerated. By eliminating drug tourism parliament is effectively trying to create a more family friendly image of the Netherlands by showcasing its beautiful scenery, quaint villages etc. It would also effectively reduce drug related crime.

Seriously, people, the Netherlands is not your personal weed supplier. You don't go to another country to get high. For fucks sake you're basically insulting an entire country by doing so. If parliament does not want drug tourism then there won't be any drug tourism and if you really need your fix then go outside for once there are dealers on every corner of the street. There are other beautiful things about the Netherlands besides drugs and prostitutes and that's what parliament wants to put into the spotlight.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

All the money you'd make from foreigners buying weed will now go to the blackmarket

What the fuck are you talking about? Making drug tourism illegal would effectively reduce the amount of people visiting the country in order to get high. There would be no point in them visiting the Netherlands knowing buying drugs is illegal. Why would they visit the Netherlands in order to buy weed knowing the prices are the same and you're still making the exact same risks as buying it in your home country?

All the money you'd make from incidental tourism from foreigners will go to another country (Sorry Denmark but your more liberal views on drugs and sex were your countries Unique Selling Point; Like London/Buckingham palace for England. Sure there IS more to see, but nobody gives a fuck about it

Yeah they do. It's just that YOU don't give a fuck about anything else. There are people out there who visit countries for reasons OTHER than getting wasted.

It creates a need for a black market, one which you will have no control over, nor benefit from.t

Why would making it illegal for a foreigner to buy weed create a "need" for a black market to form around weed? What would be the point? Making drug tourism illegal would eliminate these sorts of "black markets" by effectively eliminating the main consumer, the drug tourist, who will no longer visit the Netherlands purely for weed.

Peoples habits wont change, the only thing that will change is that now they can be arrested for it.

So people will still visit the Netherlands for drugs knowing full well the risks of procurring weed is the same as in their home country? Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Amsterdam is extremely against the weed pass and is refusing to implement it at all costs.
So your drug use can take place no problem.

This whole bla-bla is for the region next to Belgium, where they do want it.
Drugsrunners and all are causing a ton of problems in the deep south.

 

[unoleian]

Nobody goes to the Netherlands just to buy pot (I hope-- and fresh-outta-high-school trustafarians aren't included. They're ridiculous, intellectually-bankrupt and annoying everywhere no matter where they are or what the laws are). That's stupid. I can do that just fine in 10 minutes here with a phone-call, and it's just as good (or better, even) than anything I could find over there, and that's a fact. Not worth spending a couple grand just to get high. That is truly silly.

What people were actually doing was buying the idea. I imagine that it was a positively-reinforcing, giant "F-You" to the establishment elsewhere to buy a bowl OTC and share it like a pitcher of beer. At least, that's how I always pictured it. Either way, it was certainly a compelling reason to add the area to the list of "things to do/see on that European vacation I'll never get to have (because I'm not a trustafarian)."

 

[DEAD34345]

I'm Dutch, so let me explain. We have immense amounts of trouble with the "drugstourism" each year. Seriously, these people are responsible for like 20 percent of all petty crimes in Holland. We have nothing against the drug itself, but the kind of people that come to our country in order to obtain it, are often not the most savory sort of individuals. We believe that if we make sure foreigners won't be able to obtain weed in our country, we'll have less of these idiots breaking shop windows and mugging people. Also, the European Union has been pressuring us to ban the drug completely, because people are importing it from the Netherlands to country's where weed is illigal. So we met them halfway by saying that we would'nt sell to foreigners anymore.

Ps. Please excuse my poor English, as earlier stated I am not a native speaker.

This argument seems reasonable to me. At least more so than it originally seemed. I really don't think The Netherlands should fold because the EU says though, very few countries in the EU actually care about their rules.

On a side note why is it that everyone who apologises for having "poor English" tends to form grammatically fine and well formed sentences, and make almost no typos? Seriously, it puts actual native English speakers to shame.

 

[The Funslinger]

Snip.

I'll explain how it increases crime.

It's been proven that whenever something like this gets outlawed, it only gets pushed into the black market. Ergo, people can't keep control of it, and people end up being more desperate to get it. Just compare how Amsterdam is now to somewhere like New York in terms of drug related crime. While the only people who are really badly affected by this are tourists, they're still going to go to Holland knowing its reputation and will seek this stuff out, and so people will end up just buying it illegally, which is sure as hell less safe than a relaxed joint in a coffee shop.

 

[bjj hero]

The phrase "WHY CANT YOU LIKE THE THINGS I LIKE?" sums up your entire opinion quite nicely. Oh and hypocrisy, lots of hypocrisy

You would go there to get something that isn't really available in your own country, and thats fine, but others go there to get something that isn't really available in their country and because it doesn't line up with Your precious desires its not fine?

And seriously, I think its pretty goddamn rich for someone who would go there to visit places where people beat the living shit out of one looking down on POT for making the place "Seedy" and "not Family friendly"

I would take pot smokers and perverts over violent thugs any day of the week. Yourself included, you condescending hypocrite.

I don't care if your interests are different than mine, I was disagreeing with the sentiment that no one will visit the Netherlands without legalised cannabis use. There is a lot more to the country that drugs and sex shows. So why would a change in law to bring it more in line with your home country drive you away?

I don't know where you live but it must be a wonderful place if illicit drugs are not available. Sex is also readily available in most places. I'm in a happy relationship but even when single it's easy to spend the night with someone for the cost of a few drinks. Chances are you will not be the sixth person in that way either.

Martial arts are sport by the way. Check out next time the olympics are on. Wrestling, TKD, boxing, Judo. Its a great way of developing strength, fitness and confidence. If you are expecting fight club or gladitorial combat you will be disappointed. Ive been doing martial arts now for over a decade and have only had to defend myself once in that time. Doesn't scream violent thug really. It is also useful in my profession as breakaway training is a waste of time. I'll skip on the juvenile personal insults and block capitals.

Heres the real difference. I like to travel. If kickboxing was outlawed in the Netherlands tomorrow it would not make me think "I won't ever go there now". I imagine their laws on violence are similar to the laws in the UK. The laws on drug use may move close to the laws in peoples home countries and now they are saying is no reason to go. Thats what I don't get.

I never said it was not fine to go on holiday and smoke pot and sleep with prostitutes (although I won't be donig it). It's just something I don't wish to be a part of, a number of Dutch posters have commented on the trouble arriving with certain tourists. Its the same reason I don't go to places like Magaluf where everyone gets drunk, takes drugs and fights. A wiser man than me told me to "Not talk shit, don't start shit and dont hang around outside kebab shops at 2am". It's an extension of that and it keeps me out of trouble.

 

[Quaxar]

Heh, guess that means there's going to be a lot less cars full of young people "paying short visits over the border".
Which means a lot less street abrasion.
Which means they won't have to repair it s often which in turn means... more money for the rich tar companies! It's a conspiracy!

What? I'm just making baseless assumptions. They're fun.

 

[Matt-the-twat]

I would suggest that the fact that most of the non native Dutch in this thread disagree with the idea of banning it for tourists shows the kind of tourist it brings to the Netherlands. I would also imagine that most would agree that the Escapist is a pretty damn good community, and would make for good tourists anywhere.

Granted some people will buck the trend, but I don't know anyone who smokes weed that is anything other than exceptional in some way; so definitely not the yobbish type that we get in the UK who binge drink our country into the sewers. Based on this knowledge I find it quite funny that some people are using the phrase 'pothead' as a derogatory term in this thread.

 

[Jordi]

Snip.

I'll explain how it increases crime.

It's been proven that whenever something like this gets outlawed, it only gets pushed into the black market. Ergo, people can't keep control of it, and people end up being more desperate to get it. Just compare how Amsterdam is now to somewhere like New York in terms of drug related crime. While the only people who are really badly affected by this are tourists, they're still going to go to Holland knowing its reputation and will seek this stuff out, and so people will end up just buying it illegally, which is sure as hell less safe than a relaxed joint in a coffee shop.

Crime will go up because Demand will not shrink to the same degree that legal Supply will and, by definition, making something illegal increases the amount of crime.

People will still go to Denmark for the same reasons they now do, less of them will, sure, but because it would still be a LOT easier to obtain pot illegally in Denmark than it would be in the UK (for example) you won't be rid of drug tourism at all. There would be a shit-ton of money to be made, now, on the Netherlands drug black market because the policy pretty much creates an entirely new market for them to exploit - People who can't get onto coffee house member lists and foreigners.

So there will be a rise in the amount of people illegally dealing Pot when there would of been no point before and, because this illegal pot is not controlled, it will inevitably suffer from the same problems that other illegally dealt drugs suffer from - Tampering and extortionate prices. And not just individuals, the odd coffee house here and there will be more "Relaxed" about their policies because of this brand new, cash filled, market. Just like Speakeasies during prohibition.

Petty crime may decrease, but at the expense of more serious crimes. Hell it's just as likely that whatever decrease in petty crime you see from drug tourists will be replaced by petty crime by drug dealers and their activities.

to summarize..

- All the money you'd make from foreigners buying weed will now go to the blackmarket
- All the money you'd make from incidental tourism from foreigners will go to another country (Sorry Denmark but your more liberal views on drugs and sex were your countries Unique Selling Point; Like London/Buckingham palace for England. Sure there IS more to see, but nobody gives a fuck about it)
- It creates a need for a black market, one which you will have no control over, nor benefit from.
- Crime will reduce in some areas but increase in others, most likely worse areas.
- Peoples habits wont change, the only thing that will change is that now they can be arrested for it.

I think Drug trafficking as an outgoing product will decrease, but not as much as I think illegal drug distribution internally will increase.

There is only (extra) demand, because drugs are allowed here for foreigners. Take that away and there is no point in people visiting our country for the legal drugs. They may as well stay at home and get their drugs at the exact same risk as here. Of course, there will always be people who are too stupid to know whether buying drugs here is actually legal before coming here for that express purpose, but I have a feeling that those people might as well end up in Denmark because they think it's the same country.

I'm sure that technically outlawing something will (at least in the short term) result in more "crime" as some people may be slow to implement the new policies.[footnote]Although one of the major problems, which is people "legally" buying drugs here and then taking it with them to Belgium/Germany/whatever, was already illegal.[/footnote] But other than that, this is different from other cases where something is outlawed, because 1) we are only outlawing it for foreigners and 2) because we did that there is no longer any reason for those foreigners to come here. So basically we are getting rid of the troublemakers, which is something you can't do if you outlaw something for your own citizens.

 

[Jordi]

I would suggest that the fact that most of the non native Dutch in this thread disagree with the idea of banning it for tourists shows the kind of tourist it brings to the Netherlands. I would also imagine that most would agree that the Escapist is a pretty damn good community, and would make for good tourists anywhere.

Granted some people will buck the trend, but I don't know anyone who smokes weed that is anything other than exceptional in some way; so definitely not the yobbish type that we get in the UK who binge drink our country into the sewers. Based on this knowledge I find it quite funny that some people are using the phrase 'pothead' as a derogatory term in this thread.

I'm not so sure what you're saying in your first paragraph. People on the Escapist are awesome, except for the non-Dutch people in this topic, because we shouldn't want them as tourists?

Anyway, the term "pothead" is kind of derogatory because most people don't share your experience. People who are constantly on pot don't exactly appear enlightened to me. Another reason might be that the Netherlands is not trying to ban drug tourists for no reason. These "potheads" are actually causing a lot of trouble. (well some of them are)

 

[Shock and Awe]

In other News: Tourist Revenue in the Netherlands drops an astonishing 87%!

 

[Matt-the-twat]

I'm not so sure what you're saying in your first paragraph. People on the Escapist are awesome, except for the non-Dutch people in this topic, because we shouldn't want them as tourists?

Anyway, the term "pothead" is kind of derogatory because most people don't share your experience. People who are constantly on pot don't exactly appear enlightened to me. Another reason might be that the Netherlands is not trying to ban drug tourists for no reason. These "potheads" are actually causing a lot of trouble. (well some of them are)

I'm saying that there have been many people in this thread claiming to be the very type of tourist that the Netherlands want gotten rid of. I then meant that, that seemed odd to me as I think we can all agree people from the Escapist are usually pretty damn cool, so it seems to me that based on this evidence the Netherlands were shooting themselves in the foot.

I take your point that my experience may not be the norm, but it's just hard for me to imagine a group of people who take a drug in order to chill out and have a quiet laugh with a few friends to be trouble makers. I mean anyone who's ever smoked weed will tell you that if anything it inhibits your ability to make a nuisance of yourself as you generally feel very calm and peaceful, this is almost the opposite effect to alcohol. Yet, the drugs are what's causing the petty crime in Holland? Again, it just seems like a very strange concept for me. An explanation I could probably accept is if travelling to a country where something is legal (for all intents and purposes) from a place where it is very much illegal, would probably give the individual a sense of 'everything goes', hence the petty crime.

 

[Nimcha]

I think most people grossly overstate the benefits the country receives from drug tourism. They're such a small group, they hardly affect tourism as a whole (which is already such a small part of the country's income).

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

Thought of the day: Have you ever noticed that when something is being banned or restricted, the abuse of said item often increases?

The forbidden fruit effect. You tell someone they can't have something, chances are they will want it more. All humans are greedy and stubborn bastards, some more than others. Why do you think America has a huge drug problem?