So Valve is not your friend, according to Polygon.

[Silvanus]

Because, logistically and legally, it's somehow easy to return money that's been sent to a publisher (if not indie), developer, and Valve themselves. What happens if a refund request is made and only one or two parties agree that it should be given? Do you give a partial refund again? Do you force the parties that do agree to pay more? Do you force the third party to shell out too in a majority-wins situation?

It doesn't matter if it's easy. If the consumer is entitled to something morally and legally (which they are), then the onus is on the producer of the product to find ways around those problems. Ways around can be found. If you want to run a business, then part of the responsibility is to solve issues exactly like that, and fulfil what is reasonably expected of you. Businesses are not only responsible if the solution is easy. Diddums.

 

[Silvanus]

So, you think its alright for customers to shout and act like crazy people towards workers in retail because they aren't perfect? Nice, cupcake.

No, which is why nothing I said implied that in any way.

Classic gambit. "So, you think XYZ?", with XYZ here taking the place of the most extreme, provocative position imaginable, regardless of whether the person in question said anything like it at all.

 

[BrawlMan]

No, valve isn't, but neither is any other business I deal with. Both parties have their own goals and are simply working with each other to get there, and that is fine. Hell, it is like a business relationship in a way.

Here's the breakdown. Steam is not my friend, but they are, essentially, a business partner of sorts. The provide me games with minimal fuss and decent support, and I provide them money. Pretty good deal, and despite fucking around with things like paid mods and the mess that is/was greenlight, they tend to know to stay on the up and up when it comes to actually selling and providing the games because it just is easier that way. I want games for a reasonable amount, that run well on my pc, and that I can trust will still be there tomorrow after I purchase them despite them being entirely digital. I also want to know that if the internet is acting up, I can still access my stuff just fine. And steam, it delivers on that well enough, as well as acting as a storefront and community hub. Good service overall in that regard and I don't mind using it, even if I still think it could be done better, and that valve themselves could improve on things. That can be hashed out overtime, as I said earlier, different goals between the parties and all that.

Polygon has routinely demonstrated nothing but contempt for their readers, gamers, and anyone who doesn't ideologically agree with their narrow political lean. When it comes to my relationship with them, they have failed, utterly, to provide their side of the deal as journalists and product reviewers (this being accurate, reliable, relevant information about games and the gaming industry), so I broke off that relationship years ago (or in short, I stopped going there, stopped trusting them as a source, etc). As it is, this article looks like a bitter jealous ex trying to talk shit about someone else.

Personally though, I think I like this study as an explanation as to why.

http://www.businessinsider.com/journalists-brains-function-at-a-lower-level-than-average-2017-5

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to point out. Polygon and IGN, have this thing of hating on anyone that does not 100% agree with them on everything. I like the article you sent in the link, but that still doesn't excuse the shady shit a lot of game journalists are guilty of doing.

 

[Silvanus]

I hope that you're more gentle towards those in retail. They are human like you and myself.

This is a transparent attempt to imply I said something I never did. You invented it, and it was never present in my post in any way. That's available for anybody to go and check.

It's sheer, shameless fabrication.

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

A corporation is not my friend... what brilliant insight. I think my heart almost skipped beat from the shock.

 

[Silvanus]

You pretty much implied that was alright for people to treat those in customer service like dog crap.

This is quite simply a lie. I implied no such thing, at any stage in my post. You simply made this up.

The post in question is here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.950447-So-Valve-is-not-your-friend-according-to-Polygon?page=3#23976061], for any onlookers.

 

[runic knight]

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to point out. Polygon and IGN, have this thing of hating on anyone that does not 100% agree with them on everything. I like the article you sent in the link, but that still doesn't excuse the shady shit a lot of game journalists are guilty of doing.

It isn't meant as an excuse, more like revealing probable cause why. These people are not good people, they have a lot of problems and far too much ability to cause mischief by abusing the authority that comes from being "journalists" in a world where that used to mean something about trustworthiness and integrity, and some still believe it does.

As it is, they act like a bitter high school clique who got a little power. I mean seriously, this entire article comes off as the sort of childish whispering social play you'd see in the halls of a middle school. That sadly seems a trend in journalism across the board now actually. Gaming is just, well, blatantly obvious about it.

 

[BrawlMan]

It isn't meant as an excuse, more like revealing probable cause why. These people are not good people, they have a lot of problems and far too much ability to cause mischief by abusing the authority that comes from being "journalists" in a world where that used to mean something about trustworthiness and integrity, and some still believe it does.

As it is, they act like a bitter high school clique who got a little power. I mean seriously, this entire article comes off as the sort of childish whispering social play you'd see in the halls of a middle school. That sadly seems a trend in journalism across the board now actually. Gaming is just, well, blatantly obvious about it.

I know you explanation was meant as the probable cause of why this behavior is going on and not an excuse. My statement towards those that try to make excuses to sites like those. Similar to what I said back at the beginning, they come off as jilted lovers who felt "betrayed". Outside of gaming it's really obvious with news channels such as Fox or CNN. Yet gaming is more obvious about it.

 

[RobertEHouse]

Valve is not my friend? Well that's a surprise! I had them over last night for tea. Meanwhile, Polygon you just kept running around the room naked smearing pigs blood everywhere, only to yell how evil the world is.

Seriously, Polygon we all know Valve is not really our friend. Just like we know you cannot wright a single decent article and like to pretend to be a serious journalistic source.

 

[CaitSeith]

Good Guy Valve worked hard to make us believe that willingly installing surveillance and control software onto our computers was a morally benevolent, perhaps even righteous act ? and we swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

The way this is worded makes Polygon act like Steam is spyware that can potentially hijack your computer, and not a DRM platform.

To be fair, the gaming community has had the same reaction towards DRM in general in the past (specially in cases like Diablo 3 and SimCity when it just didn't let people play).

Players began noting that was Valve was doing was wildly illegal, pointing out quite accurately that under European Union law, consumers were entitled to a refund on all purchases ? even for something as simple as changing their mind.

Because, logistically and legally, it's somehow easy to return money that's been sent to a publisher (if not indie), developer, and Valve themselves. What happens if a refund request is made and only one or two parties agree that it should be given?

If nothing else was prearranged, the agreeing parties must put some of their own money to pay back the full amount. But the how doesn't concern the consumer or the law.

Even when Valve finally did get around to launching a refund program [...], many people quite accurately and angrily observed that the default refund option was in Steam credit

I've returned money to my bank from a refunded purchase before. It can be done, meaning that this argument completely falls through the floor. "The default option" isn't "the only option".

Not completely. In some regions of the world, Steam credit is the only refund option.

European law principally provides a right of withdrawal on software sales. However, it can be and typically is excluded for boxed software that has been opened and for digitally provided content once it has been made available to the end user. This is what happens when you make a transaction on Steam: The EU statutory right of withdrawal ends the moment the content and services are added to your account.

At the same time, Steam voluntarily offers refunds to all of its customers worldwide in a way that is much more customer-friendly than our legal obligations.

TL;DR: "Most publishers on our platform do not support the EU's refund policy, and we don't want to deal with the legal shit of forcing them to accept these laws on our platform, so instead we make them accept our own, identical refund policy which we can make them agree to without raising any legal or ethical concerns."
Besides, didn't you literally just say that this was illegal? Why is Valve claiming, then, that digital products are exempt from this? Doesn't this violate your earlier point?

Because their customers aren't experts in EU laws and regulations. Besides, if they are doing refunds, who is going to care if they state that "can be and typically is excluded for boxed software that has been opened and for digitally provided content" and it results to be false?

We emailed Valve for a comment on this issue before publishing the story, and have yet to hear back. After all, if you don't say anything, you can't tell a lie to the internet, right?

It's generally a matter of journalistic integrity to leave "X has not responded to questioning." at that and that alone. It irks me to see them to go straight to assumptions as to why Valve hasn't responded.

Opinion article. He may be a jerk, but in these articles is common to not even try to contact "X".

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

Weren't they also ones claiming COD WWII is not diverse enough?

If so then they're bunch of chauvinists and bigots in their death throes,
trying to get any attention to their crumbling platform
or given their target maybe just bunch of spineless twat's on EA's leash, smearing hit pieces on demand?

Neither option being worthy source of news on gaming industry.

For all the shit that gets thrown at Polygon I have to wonder how many times do people look at whether or not it's a review article or an editorial opinion piece. Because really- this isn't that big of a deal.

So if you give platform to a racist and sexist and PAY them for it, and EARN MONEY on ads but add a note we take no responsibility, it's unfair to hold you responsible for content you peddle? Oh-ok, my bad.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

A corporation isn't my friend? Say it ain't so!

Also, it's weird how some people like really hate some pretty harmless and bland websites like Polygon and Kotaku, or is this like an "ethics" thing that I'm just not getting? I dunno. I tend not to get angry about things like that.

I would not categorize polygon as harmless given they had something to do with those sites pushing the "you'll take what you've given" and being generally anti-consumer hacks.
whether people want to dwell on the ME3 controversy or not the gamers are entitled mythos arguably has not helped the fact that a fair bit of corporate games come to us peacemeil and mildly broken on day one.(not a big deal for me because, yah know Monkey island rule, and i mostly play indie anyway)
in fact if I'm not mistaken Colin Moriarty came from polygon and they were the folks that published this nonsense in the first place.

But if you disagree that then they are simply a bunch of corporate centrifuges, people being say "too old" to enjoy destiny, entitlement and the like doesn't really do anything but shit on their consumer base with sophist tripe.
The fact that they remain alive worries me greatly

Ok... so ... obviously I've missed a lot because I generally don't know what you're on about.

You see, Polygon is the worst enemy of frozen peaches and ethical jurnalism currently on the internet. Their tyrannical reign is literally ruining games and costing people their lives, so it's up to the noble crusaders of the anti-SJW brigade to take them down and once again bring peace and prosperity to the internet. Only the downfall of Polygon will allow games jernulasm to flourish (because the last target, Gawker, was already taken down, so they need a new bogeyman now)!

Yeah because they need to be treated as fortress and people holding them responsible for what they publish are storming soldiers of social media war. Just absolutely no other option, right?

Sometimes browsing net it really feels like being a guy in this strip. Just they should add another panel in which both sides accuse and cuss him for being 'enemy' if he doesn't swear allegience to them or dare to speak any word not perfectly fitting their narrative...

 

[CaitSeith]

Polygon has routinely demonstrated nothing but contempt for their readers, gamers, and anyone who doesn't ideologically agree with their narrow political lean. When it comes to my relationship with them, they have failed, utterly, to provide their side of the deal as journalists and product reviewers (this being accurate, reliable, relevant information about games and the gaming industry), so I broke off that relationship years ago (or in short, I stopped going there, stopped trusting them as a source, etc). As it is, this article looks like a bitter jealous ex trying to talk shit about someone else.

Personally though, I think I like this study as an explanation as to why.

http://www.businessinsider.com/journalists-brains-function-at-a-lower-level-than-average-2017-5

For a study made on 40 journalist (from which only 21 completed the full study), you better have some of them come from Polygon before believing such biased generalization from ONE single study.

http://www.taraswart.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Report-Study-into-the-mental-resilience-of-journalists-Dr-Tara-Swart.pdf

 

[Silvanus]

Wait, what?!
Why would you omit your own, answered question: what I ment by original post...

Which question? What did I omit?

And don't go digging for excuses routine while spamming report button to mute someone giving you the answer it's just annoyingly childish.
Hiding behind ignorance like you do doesn't help much when you didn't do anything with recieved information but mock it and spout ridicolous accusation that it was made up, while I refered to exact words from article.

Your post was moderated because you threw in a bunch of slurs in an attempt to get a rise out of me, not because you're being "muted".

Look here: in your original post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.950447-So-Valve-is-not-your-friend-according-to-Polygon#23973069], already linked above, you appeared to be referring to criticism of the game itself lacking diversity, rather than the discussion panel. Here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.950447-So-Valve-is-not-your-friend-according-to-Polygon?page=3#23973744] is the first reference to a presentation panel, on page 3, maaany posts later. I didn't know that's what you were talking about, because... because, well, you didn't talk about it.

 

[runic knight]

Polygon has routinely demonstrated nothing but contempt for their readers, gamers, and anyone who doesn't ideologically agree with their narrow political lean. When it comes to my relationship with them, they have failed, utterly, to provide their side of the deal as journalists and product reviewers (this being accurate, reliable, relevant information about games and the gaming industry), so I broke off that relationship years ago (or in short, I stopped going there, stopped trusting them as a source, etc). As it is, this article looks like a bitter jealous ex trying to talk shit about someone else.

Personally though, I think I like this study as an explanation as to why.

http://www.businessinsider.com/journalists-brains-function-at-a-lower-level-than-average-2017-5

For a study made on 40 journalist (from which only 21 completed the full study), you better have some of them come from Polygon before believing such biased generalization from ONE single study.

http://www.taraswart.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Report-Study-into-the-mental-resilience-of-journalists-Dr-Tara-Swart.pdf

First, you do seem to miss that was more a joking jab at polygon than a hard-hitting thesis. Considering how petty and childish they act, the study was a hilarious discovery. And considering how their actions reveal themselves as such petty, childish individuals, the study does offer a decently probable cause as to why.

Secondly, considering how fast and loose journalists play with studies and polls to promote personal biases, I really don't care too much that they suddenly start to care about proper sample size and the like now to support a conclusion, especially when I mainly used it as a joking chaser. I could probably also point out that sample sizes of 300 being applied to entire nations aren't exactly uncommon so the relative ratio of only 40 for journalists is probably better than that, but I never much liked such small sample sizes there and I really didn't care to dig into the hard methodology of the study for the sake of calling the complete failures who work at polygon out for their history, and the current examples, for their being failures.

I'll be more than happy to amend that when they stop promoting charlatans like Anita who openly lie and misrepresent data for their personal hate campaigns against men enjoying games, and instead openly criticize the utter failure of her methodology more than they spend time playing the white knight against the troll masses for calling her out on her bullshit. But I suspect that will be a long time coming.

 

[CaitSeith]

Polygon has routinely demonstrated nothing but contempt for their readers, gamers, and anyone who doesn't ideologically agree with their narrow political lean. When it comes to my relationship with them, they have failed, utterly, to provide their side of the deal as journalists and product reviewers (this being accurate, reliable, relevant information about games and the gaming industry), so I broke off that relationship years ago (or in short, I stopped going there, stopped trusting them as a source, etc). As it is, this article looks like a bitter jealous ex trying to talk shit about someone else.

Personally though, I think I like this study as an explanation as to why.

http://www.businessinsider.com/journalists-brains-function-at-a-lower-level-than-average-2017-5

For a study made on 40 journalist (from which only 21 completed the full study), you better have some of them come from Polygon before believing such biased generalization from ONE single study.

http://www.taraswart.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Report-Study-into-the-mental-resilience-of-journalists-Dr-Tara-Swart.pdf

First, you do seem to miss that was more a joking jab at polygon than a hard-hitting thesis. Considering how petty and childish they act, the study was a hilarious discovery. And considering how their actions reveal themselves as such petty, childish individuals, the study does offer a decently probable cause as to why.

Goddamn you, POE!!! You got me again!