So, what causes a guy to go on a nutty killing spree?

[DeltaEdge]

I don't think insanity has anything to do with it. I think that's just a cop-out for people who don't understand and aren't interested in understanding, and who would like to think that there's some fundamental defect that makes other people capable of murder, but not them.

My guess is that if a person is depressed enough to commit suicide but also angry and vindictive enough, they'll decide there's no reason they're the only one who should die. Since this person has now decided to take their own life as well as the lives of others, it's also not hard to imagine such a person paying little or no attention to who the victims are; they're figuring that there will either be no punishment in death or they're already in for a pretty nasty afterlife anyway, so there's no reason to hold back.

Lots of people seem to decide that there's no easy way for them to contribute something good to the world, and so try to make their mark or amuse themselves by being assholes, trolls, vandals, thieves, or worse. The destruction caused and the infamy achieved becomes their measure of success. Such is the case, I imagine, with mass shooters (that sounds like such a silly term). So the fake Morgan Freeman quote, which states that the problem is how the media popularizes the shooters, seems partly right.

If you want to prevent this, I don't think you'll be able to do it by attempting to outlaw or restrict the possession of weapons. Weapons are ubiquitous and it is well known that people can take them where they want to, if they only want to badly enough.

These shooters are a symptom of larger problems, often cultural ones, and solving them is not as easy as simply passing reactionary laws. We can do that of course, and I suspect we will, just like the last few times major incidents like this happened. It gives us the impression we have Done Something, but you shouldn't expect it to have any effect on actual shootings.

To be honest, I'm not sure what we can do. However, I'm willing to bet that we could help by teaching our kids that being an asshole to other kids is not a sign of strength, but of social incompetence. I think that we could help by providing support for those who struggle instead of telling them to deal with it. I think that if we had a society where it was evident that hard work was rewarded and corruption punished, fewer people would decide that the only justice in the world is what they take for themselves.

I agree 100% with this. I think that by belittling people's issue's, things like this become much more common place. It should not be assumed that everyone has a well-rounded sensible life, and they they have enough mental safety nets and social tools to deal with the problems they face. Many people go through life without really experiencing much else than they have to, and simply don't have the experience necessary to cope with their problems. Obviously someone who is good at dealing with problems due to having a diverse pool of experiences and multiple ways of approaching problems would probably think "Obviously if you're having problems, you should go to a mental health institution. If not, then I have no sympathy for your case", but something like this might not come so naturally to someone who hasn't that that kind of privilege.

As for the whole parenting issue, parents aren't psychic. No, I am not trying to absolve parents of any responsibility for screwed up children, but just calling them bad parents doesn't always seem quite correct either. People learn fairly early on to mask their feelings and keep secrets. People become better and better at this the older they get. There are plenty of things we don't want others to know about, that we keep to ourselves, and if we are not telling anybody, and we appear to be functioning normally, then what reason is there to suspect that after acting relatively normally for so long, that we would just suddenly snap and do something atrocious like this? My point with this is, unless people are clearly showing signs of problems to which a parent can clearly react and try to find a solution, people can only be helped if they want to be helped. This includes children too. A child who seems to function well will not receive help like a child who acts out even if they have the same problems provided they are able to hide it.

I also think that the negative way society looks at people who require mental help is a huge detractor to getting help as well. Most people when they think of someone who needs mental help probably think of someone who is completely incapable of any sort of rational thought. When thinking this way, you probably would feel like unless you have ceased to use your brain and have devolved into some sort of semi-conscious sub-human that isn't capable of any sort of rational contemplation, you are not insane, and thus, not in need of help. And if you feel that you are not in need of help, yet you still feel this way you may eventually begin to project these negative feelings onto society. You would probably eventually become more and more bitter thinking about how much distaste you have for such an uncaring society, while continuing to build up more and more mental pressure. You eventually would probably stop trying to look at things from multiple perspectives, because you're likely too bogged down by what you are currently feeling to want to consider anyone else besides yourself, and even very small things probably start to have a huge impact on you. You then probably start looking only at the negatives of society, and in your sullen state of mind, you probably don't even want to be alive anymore because everything you see seems so negative and horrible. You probably want to spite the society that you find so atrocious and this most shocking way possible, and then end up doing something like this.

At no point during this progression do I think someone is incapable of being helped. I don't think that anyone is truly just completely insane and beyond communication and help like we like to think they are. I think that anyone without the proper tools to deal with their problems could easily do something like this, provided they aren't helped. I don't think they were ever just insane, I think that through their various experiences they simply narrowed their minds to focus only on the negatives. I think that people like this are completely capable of being helped, and not just lunatics, but just require the right help and attention to open up their minds and give them the tools to deal with their problems instead of just internalizing their issues and letting them build up.
tl;dr People aren't just crazy, they have a huge build up of all kinds of feelings like anger, and without the tools to deal with it, they eventually stop trying to look at things from any view besides their own, and then they let out their tension often in a way like this. Reaching out to understand them and help them and give them the tools to deal with their problems would likely help to diffuse them, and then they probably wouldn't feel the need to go shooting up schools.

 

[KingHodor]

There is no universal "trigger". One thing that does come close to it, however, is the tendency of our society that when and if a guy of that age tries to ask for help, he's told "Shut up and grow a pair", if you ask me.

If you're a "privileged white male" it seems as if it's a disgrace to ask for help when you need it, instead you should "Quit whining and grow a spine".

Is it really like that in America?

Yes, it really is. Mental health issues are vastly stigmatized here in the US, to the point that people are extremely reluctant to even admit they have a problem, let alone seek help for it. And when they do, getting insurance to pay for it is a whole other hurdle. It's disgraceful that this country doesn't consider taking care of your mind to be as important as taking care of your body.

I disagree. From my impressions of American TV shows, everybody in America can probably name at least one antidepressant, and a lot of the characters (like Mr Monk or Charlie Harper) regularly visit therapists or psychiatrists, which is generally treated as the right thing to do. "Glee" in particular highlights the importance of treating your mental illness for a marked increase in quality of life. One show (I won't spoil it by saying which) even portrayed Electro-Convulsive Therapy in a semi-positive light as a last resort option for treatment-resistant depression. Obviously there is a stigma attached to mental illness in the US in real life, but I'd say it is far smaller than in other developed nations.

 

[Hafnium]

Mental illness I would think. :/

 

[lacktheknack]

Being a privileged white male is what caused it. This had nothing to do with mental illness.

Care to elaborate? I'm a privileged white male, but don't feel any particular urges to go to even the shooting gallery, let alone a school that I've mistaken for a shooting gallery. I don't even feel the need to play violent video games, punch a pillow, or do anything that could be taken as "violent behavior". How then, pray tell, am I now the most likely person to go gun-crazy in a room where I'm the only white guy?

 

[Yopaz]

Saying guns have nothing to do with it is stupid. You can't shoot a guy if you don't have a gun. Saying guns should be blamed is equally stupid because guns don't suddenly make you want to shoot someone.

Family life, school life, stress, bullying, various mental issues, feeling hopeless. These are all possible factors for it. Human psychology isn't a simple matter. The fact that guns are easy to come by is just what makes people snap and shoot people rather than snap and beat up, stab or poision people.

As others have already stated, there's no universl trigger.

 

[2xDouble]

Yes, it really is. Mental health issues are vastly stigmatized here in the US, to the point that people are extremely reluctant to even admit they have a problem, let alone seek help for it. And when they do, getting insurance to pay for it is a whole other hurdle. It's disgraceful that this country doesn't consider taking care of your mind to be as important as taking care of your body.

Strangely enough, they do exactly that in Connecticut. Most, if not all, health plans available in the area cover psychiatric care and (unless otherwise excluded) medications at least partially; they're treated as in-patient doctors' visits. Worst case scenario, the local state insurance covers both, 100% (within certain restrictions, of course). The ease by which one can come to help in this state makes those who don't receive help, whether they don't know about it or simply refuse it, all the more tragic.

That said, and as you say, the social stigma is still a significant hurdle to get over.

 

[xDarc]

Whatever happened to just crazy? You can't just be crazy anymore?

Well, the problem with that is that the general sentiment in the society seems to be "Crazy" = "Not enough like me for my comfort".

Is the guy who goes live a hermit life in the middle of nowhere crazy? I suppose most of us would say so. But he's not going to go on a killing spree, either.

I've noticed there were a lot less of these incidents when we had mental institutions in every city that locked up people who were different like it was going out of style. Those institutions have mostly all closed, and there really isn't an affordable or humane alternative these days.

On what grounds were those people locked up, I wonder. I mean, I dunno, but last time I check we don't exactly imprison people for what they "might" do.

That is exactly why they used to lock people up by the tens of thousands right up until the late 70's early 80's. Had a baby out of wedlock? Gay? Atheist? You might have wound up in a mental institution. Anyone who was different and on the fringes of what was culturally acceptable at the time could very easily have wound up in an institution. BUT, it WAS quiet back then wasn't it?

The point is this, try to stop things that your culture doesn't agree with by casting a broad net and you are going to catch people up in it unjustly. That's what conformity to cultural norms costs.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

There is no universal "trigger". One thing that does come close to it, however, is the tendency of our society that when and if a guy of that age tries to ask for help, he's told "Shut up and grow a pair", if you ask me.

If you're a "privileged white male" it seems as if it's a disgrace to ask for help when you need it, instead you should "Quit whining and grow a spine".

And I think I know why "Quit whining and grow a spine" is such a common answer. On the surface we have everything one could possibly need: a family, safety, food, shelter, education, entertainment i.e. an environment where issues like these aren't theoretically supposed to exist. So when someone is flipping over the edge, they're told "What have you got to complain about? There are millions of kids who can't get enought food every day, so stop whining!"

It doesn't take so much to drive a perfectly normal person over the edge. Years of being bullied, rejected by girls, unemployment, the shitty picture of the world mass media paints, easy access to firearms and ammunition, life feeling not worth living, the "glory" of being remembered instead of forgotten etc. it's not so hard to come up with multiple factors for the equation whose answer is public massacre.

 

[KingHodor]

There is no universal "trigger". One thing that does come close to it, however, is the tendency of our society that when and if a guy of that age tries to ask for help, he's told "Shut up and grow a pair", if you ask me.

If you're a "privileged white male" it seems as if it's a disgrace to ask for help when you need it, instead you should "Quit whining and grow a spine".

Is it really like that in America?

Yes, it really is. Mental health issues are vastly stigmatized here in the US, to the point that people are extremely reluctant to even admit they have a problem, let alone seek help for it. And when they do, getting insurance to pay for it is a whole other hurdle. It's disgraceful that this country doesn't consider taking care of your mind to be as important as taking care of your body.

I disagree. From my impressions of American TV shows, everybody in America can probably name at least one antidepressant, and a lot of the characters (like Mr Monk or Charlie Harper) regularly visit therapists or psychiatrists, which is generally treated as the right thing to do. "Glee" in particular highlights the importance of treating your mental illness for a marked increase in quality of life. One show (I won't spoil it by saying which) even portrayed Electro-Convulsive Therapy in a semi-positive light as a last resort option for treatment-resistant depression. Obviously there is a stigma attached to mental illness in the US in real life, but I'd say it is far smaller than in other developed nations.

You know there's a difference between basing your opinion on life experience and basing it on television right?

Not to mention that people watch tv often as a means to escape real life, and one frequent escape is to take pleasure in watching someone whose life is more screwed up than your own (see reality tv).

My point is: People get stigmatized everywhere, but the American media does its best to un-stigmatize mental illness. You might think it is stigmatized in America, but try imagining what it is like in Europe where people don't have that Zoloft ad that tells you (in extremely simplified terms) how an antidepressant works and think it's some super-addictive substance that you should immediately quit taking once you feel better, only to relapse.
Really, I've recently been to the hospital for, errr, stress-related issues, and a lot of my fellow patients were simply people who where too timid to go to their GP and get a script for Lexapro, or who had discontinued Effexor after it took effect because they saw it as a form of drug addiction - only to have another serious mental breakdown a weeks later.

 

[Redd the Sock]

As others have said, there's no one trigger. It's just we really want there to be an easy trigger (so to speak). Face it, ensuring proper diagnosis of mental issues and providing the proper care therein is costly and time consuming. Breaking through our social constructs about "crazy" people, people needing help for personal issues, or just the big ass stigma that anything not perfect is unworthy of anything of value is more trouble that it's worth to most people. We want the quick fix. Forget diet and exercise, just give us the bottle of laxitives. Forget dealing with larger issues, just ban guns or video games.

It's sad because these issues faced are endemic to our society, and shootings are just the worst outcome we've seen. Most of us just hide out at home, but there's a lot of substance abuse issues that follow from the above leading to larger problems overall.

 

[NiPah]

There is no universal "trigger". One thing that does come close to it, however, is the tendency of our society that when and if a guy of that age tries to ask for help, he's told "Shut up and grow a pair", if you ask me.

If you're a "privileged white male" it seems as if it's a disgrace to ask for help when you need it, instead you should "Quit whining and grow a spine".

Is it really like that in America?

Yes, it really is. Mental health issues are vastly stigmatized here in the US, to the point that people are extremely reluctant to even admit they have a problem, let alone seek help for it. And when they do, getting insurance to pay for it is a whole other hurdle. It's disgraceful that this country doesn't consider taking care of your mind to be as important as taking care of your body.

I disagree. From my impressions of American TV shows, everybody in America can probably name at least one antidepressant, and a lot of the characters (like Mr Monk or Charlie Harper) regularly visit therapists or psychiatrists, which is generally treated as the right thing to do. "Glee" in particular highlights the importance of treating your mental illness for a marked increase in quality of life. One show (I won't spoil it by saying which) even portrayed Electro-Convulsive Therapy in a semi-positive light as a last resort option for treatment-resistant depression. Obviously there is a stigma attached to mental illness in the US in real life, but I'd say it is far smaller than in other developed nations.

Chemically suppressing depression without learning coping techniques is only useful until your body develops a tolerance for it. It's true most Americans seek out medication for a quick fix to mental illness, but god help you if you ever lose your job/insurance and then are stuck worse then you were before.
Oh and while its portrayed in a positive light in the media in a few cases, going to seek counseling has a major stigma attached to it, also most insurances don't cover it and prices can be extremely high (also certain areas may not have access to quality care, see CT case where the mother was actually going to move seeking better counseling options for her son).

 

[Coppernerves]

Snip

After the Connecticut shooting, a few individuals wanted to try copy catting the same thing (luckily they were caught and arrested before it was done). One individual teen bragged about it on the internet that he was going to be better then the shooter who killed 20 kids and another individual wanted to kill his wife along with random people. To me I believe people can be desperate for attention and what's a better way to be remembered then going out with a big bang?

It's wrong, and not justified but they do so anyways cause they think about themselves and want to cause a bit of chaos. It might be a sign you guys should of listened, or a sign the world didn't take the individual seriously or even the world mistreating the individual. Who knows, but as long as we can prevent people from gunning down civilians, I would be happy and most grateful.

So one of the copy-cats was looking to take the "high score" arcade game style?

That is not gonna be good for us gamers...

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Mental health issues (potentially unchecked, or lack of sufficient treatment), anger management issues, intoxication, intense frustration, blackmail, having a gun put to your head, an ?accident? (however you want to define it)?

AND TEH VIOLENT VIDJA GAEMS!!!!ONE1!!!1!

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Every thing and any thing. Just depends on the state of mind when that final trigger sets it off.

 

[Varrdy]

Well it was video games, violent movies and President Obama's fault, obviously!

 

[Highlandheadbanger]

According to the NRA, video games made him do it.