Another controversial topic, yay. But what is life with boring threads?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWrFgIR6CU
Watch up to 4 minutes.
There are many other examples you can find, I just thought this was representative of what I wanted to say for this thread. Simply extrapolate from the video when you post. Do you know that this is definitely the most extreme of it's type, and most of the pickups are not as extreme. But you get enough of an idea to post in this thread anyway.
I already know the whole "game" is unpopular on this forum. But let's get deeper with this. Now I don't fully agree or endorse this type of behaviour with pickup, I think it's too far, but the general principles behind game are fine to me.
We can safely assume that Julien from the video is not the only guy in the world who can do these crazy types of pickups and get laid from it. So in that sense, this kind of attitude and everything stemming from it, "works", if you will.
What do we say about this?
Let's start off with a common argument I've heard about the game. It's that it's about manipulating woman. But if you think that, then you believe the women have no agency in the matter at all, it's as if they suddenly wake up and are in bed with a guy and then must have sex from that point on. Surely we can credit women with more intelligence then that? Just how manipulative can a guy be? Surely at one point we have to allow for the fact that some women want to get laid (even in a one night stand) and are willing to play along with the game. They might just accept the "antics" from the guy because they wish to get laid too. But to say they are being 100% manipulated into sex is silly, I think. Surely women can think for themselves?
The next argument is that it demeans women. Let's say the majority of women would be demeaned by this type of behaviour toward them, but a minority are fine with it. I mean surely these women that are getting picked up aren't just dreaming all the way along and have no idea what the guy is saying or doing. At some point they have to be fine with such language and behaviour. If we say that these women are idiots and aren't representative of normal women, does that mean we label them after they have slept with such guys or can we do so before hand? Same thing for saying these women have no self respect. And when should we label these women? What if she goes home with such a guy once a year? Once a month? If some women are fine with such approaches, who are we to judge the men who do these approaches? If both the man and the woman want to get laid, what is the issue with the tactics used?
Let's look at the goal of just wanting to get laid, and not wishing to have a relationship (as everyone in RSD seems to be this way). Ultimately what is wrong with not wanting a relationship but many one night stands? Let's say we classify this as unhealthy. There are many examples of Emperors and the like having a harem of women, I guess this would just be the modern incarnation of it. Who says that everyone should always strive for a relationship and not just want one night stands for a while? Why can't this be a legitimate pursuit?
It's safe to say these men are clear in the intent and very early on in the interaction. What about the following examples (and I know many such people): a guy buys a girl who he likes flowers in the hopes she will like him or reciprocate in return. He hopes to get in her good books and just wants to get laid, and thinks buying flowers or any other such things will do it. He holds a hidden agenda. Or he approaches a woman and pretends the conversation is going one way, but secretly wants to steer it toward getting her number. How do we judge those situations?
So if these tactics (if we call them that) work, where does the judgement start and end? If both parties in the interaction are cool with it, then where does the problem lie? If we say the men are antisocial, or that it could affect them adversely later on, and they don't care, then how do we judge?
I personally don't know what to make of such approaches. I agree they go too far, but don't know exactly when and how I should judge the situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWrFgIR6CU
Watch up to 4 minutes.
There are many other examples you can find, I just thought this was representative of what I wanted to say for this thread. Simply extrapolate from the video when you post. Do you know that this is definitely the most extreme of it's type, and most of the pickups are not as extreme. But you get enough of an idea to post in this thread anyway.
I already know the whole "game" is unpopular on this forum. But let's get deeper with this. Now I don't fully agree or endorse this type of behaviour with pickup, I think it's too far, but the general principles behind game are fine to me.
We can safely assume that Julien from the video is not the only guy in the world who can do these crazy types of pickups and get laid from it. So in that sense, this kind of attitude and everything stemming from it, "works", if you will.
What do we say about this?
Let's start off with a common argument I've heard about the game. It's that it's about manipulating woman. But if you think that, then you believe the women have no agency in the matter at all, it's as if they suddenly wake up and are in bed with a guy and then must have sex from that point on. Surely we can credit women with more intelligence then that? Just how manipulative can a guy be? Surely at one point we have to allow for the fact that some women want to get laid (even in a one night stand) and are willing to play along with the game. They might just accept the "antics" from the guy because they wish to get laid too. But to say they are being 100% manipulated into sex is silly, I think. Surely women can think for themselves?
The next argument is that it demeans women. Let's say the majority of women would be demeaned by this type of behaviour toward them, but a minority are fine with it. I mean surely these women that are getting picked up aren't just dreaming all the way along and have no idea what the guy is saying or doing. At some point they have to be fine with such language and behaviour. If we say that these women are idiots and aren't representative of normal women, does that mean we label them after they have slept with such guys or can we do so before hand? Same thing for saying these women have no self respect. And when should we label these women? What if she goes home with such a guy once a year? Once a month? If some women are fine with such approaches, who are we to judge the men who do these approaches? If both the man and the woman want to get laid, what is the issue with the tactics used?
Let's look at the goal of just wanting to get laid, and not wishing to have a relationship (as everyone in RSD seems to be this way). Ultimately what is wrong with not wanting a relationship but many one night stands? Let's say we classify this as unhealthy. There are many examples of Emperors and the like having a harem of women, I guess this would just be the modern incarnation of it. Who says that everyone should always strive for a relationship and not just want one night stands for a while? Why can't this be a legitimate pursuit?
It's safe to say these men are clear in the intent and very early on in the interaction. What about the following examples (and I know many such people): a guy buys a girl who he likes flowers in the hopes she will like him or reciprocate in return. He hopes to get in her good books and just wants to get laid, and thinks buying flowers or any other such things will do it. He holds a hidden agenda. Or he approaches a woman and pretends the conversation is going one way, but secretly wants to steer it toward getting her number. How do we judge those situations?
So if these tactics (if we call them that) work, where does the judgement start and end? If both parties in the interaction are cool with it, then where does the problem lie? If we say the men are antisocial, or that it could affect them adversely later on, and they don't care, then how do we judge?
I personally don't know what to make of such approaches. I agree they go too far, but don't know exactly when and how I should judge the situation.
