So what do you do when you?re getting older but socially things aren?t changing?

[Terria Mountain]

Hi Escapists!

I made this post to draw some practical ideas and advice together for those of us who, for a lack of a better term are fairly socially and/ or romantically undesirable as far as most of the real world is concerned.

I was hoping to get some insight in to what works for the older escapists on here who (like me):

-Find that they?re pretty much invisible to their preferred gender or desired romantic partner.

-Find that their friendships rarely extend much beyond acquaintanceships/ drift off because most people just don?t seem very interested in getting to know them for some reason.

- Can find it challenging to get through the tasks of the days (work, menial etc) because feelings of rejection, self- dissatisfaction, and personal isolation build up and get to them over long periods of time.

- Know that they?re physically unattractive and find the extra social hard work, judgement, stigma etc pretty grating after a while.

I know a lot of you will be tempted to go with the ?you?ll find someone/ people who want you?; ?you need to get confidence?, ?see therapist? lines, and I appreciate the sentiment behind trying to tell people to keep ploughing on; but: A little about me: I?m 26, I follow all the mantra about keeping yourself clean, neat groomed, in decent physical shape, eating healthily, making an effort to keep to a regular sleep pattern, get out biking when I can, rock climb and play guitar regularly (made a deal with myself to exercise, climb or play guitar whenever I get depressed and don?t have to do something more pressing), generally go out regularly and take opportunities to talk to people where possible; gainfully employed and drive (not big bucks, but I get by). Basically, I know I?m not perfect, but I?m pretty sure I do as much as I realistically can with what I?ve got. It?s just that so far, that doesn?t appear to be up to scratch for the majority of the population, especially as far as dating goes.

So please try not to derail this thread into the standard advice format. I think it?s worth having a discussion addressing what you do when you?ve more or less run out of ideas and run to ground: You?re going to be the guy/ girl that doesn?t have any close friends, partners or close family when they hit 40, or 50 or whatever and you?ve got to learn to deal with that.

That?s kind of why I wanted to focus on the older escapists:

Have you found ways to combat that lack of personal and physical intimacy successfully?

Have you found a way over the poor feelings of self-worth that tend to come with being the reject able type?

What do you do to mitigate the inevitable social judgement that comes with being the ?forever alone? type (I know, I?m sorry, but its succinct ), who?s always done poorly socially when you have to interact; or you?re just trying to make social interaction go more smoothly?

What type of lifestyle do you live and does it satisfy you? Why and how?

How have you planned for your future and older age?

Did you make peace with your lot in life and how did you?

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

If you were someone who really and truly got into a relationship with someone else because neither of you could find someone you really wanted that wanted you back, did it work out well in the end? What?s changed about your relationship to make it work if it did?

As much open honesty and practical advice drawn from your own life experience as you?re willing to give would be appreciated, thanks


TLDR: Practical advice for those of us who try as they might, are just not desired options socially or romantically. More geared to older members/ those talking from experience in coping successfully in that kind of situation. More important points and straight out questions I?ve thought up are in bold to help you skip bits out.


Edit: Also wanted to tack on: Do you have any solutions when the enjoyment you get from your main hobbies gets pretty patchy? (something I've noticed in myself in the past couple of years, and hoping that I won't reach a stage where I regularly get no enjoyment out of them, as I'm pretty reliant on them)

 

[Mr.Cynic88]

Fun question. I?m 25, and will try to answer these.

That?s kind of why I wanted to focus on the older escapists:

Have you found ways to combat that lack of personal and physical intimacy successfully?

Short answer: masturbation. I?ve been single for 3 years now, and I?ll admit that every day I have some kind of depressed ?I wish I wasn?t alone? feeling. Then I realized that if I really wanted a physically intimate connection, I would go out and seek it. I want a girlfriend, but apparently not enough to go out and meet all kinds of girls. The grass is always greener. I?m sure that if I had a girlfriend I?d feel smothered and like I don?t get to be my own person.

Have you found a way over the poor feelings of self-worth that tend to come with being the reject able type?

Yeah, by realizing that the reason I get rejected isn?t because she?s superior to me in some way, but rather we had no compatibility. I?m a pretty unique person. I like the mental masturbation of an intellectual argument. I like to talk about serious things and real issues and will often take the contrarian point to provoke discussion. Some people really like it, but the typical girl in a dating scenario is often understandably put off.
I would love to find a girl where the chemistry is just there, but it?s a big world and there?s no point beating myself up over it until it happens.

What do you do to mitigate the inevitable social judgement that comes with being the ?forever alone? type (I know, I?m sorry, but its succinct ), who?s always done poorly socially when you have to interact; or you?re just trying to make social interaction go more smoothly?

Basically, ?fuck everybody.? I?m an anxious person who naturally worries about everything. I worry so much about everything that ultimately it becomes meaningless. Anybody judging me is also a flawed person of no more value than myself.
They judge me by their stupid standards, I?ll judge them back with mine.
On a lighter note, I find that by going through life the way I choose to, when I make friends, I make really good ones that are based on some real substance. I may only talk to them once a year, but they mean more to me than a bunch of socializing airheads.
People who meet me now might be surprised to know that I was shy as a young kid. Now I know it was anxiety. I?m a pretty loud, talkative, outgoing person, and I specifically became that way because I actively taught myself how to talk to people. Basically a make your weaknesses your strengths strategy.

What type of lifestyle do you live and does it satisfy you? Why and how?

I spent the last few years living by myself attending college. Lots of time alone playing video games or doing homework, interrupted by binge drinking and having epistemological conversations with my peers.
Between undergrad and grad school, I spent the last 7 years in college. The lifestyle was a great formative experience and I feel I grew exponentially as a person.
Now, I?m sick of it, and want to move on with my life, but I don?t regret a minute of it. (Well, maybe a few minutes.)

How have you planned for your future and older age?

Not at all. As someone who has struggled with mental illness and addiction, I have a ?one day at a time? mindset.
Thinking about the future stresses me out. I?m just trying to keep my head above water.

Did you make peace with your lot in life and how did you?[/quote]
Depends on how I interpret your question. My first instinct is to say no, because you phrase it like it?s over, and I feel it?s just beginning. My lot in life is something I?m still trying to discover.
I am at peace with who I am though. Self-acceptance took a long time, but I am now comfortable with myself. I reached this point through years of obsessive analysis in my own head mixed with talk therapy and life experience.
One thing that really helped me was realizing nothing is ?supposed? to be anyway. Things just are, and I just am, and that?s OK.

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

Yes, I?ve been going to psychiatrists and psychologists since I was 17. I?ve been on medication ever since, and it really helps. Over the years I?ve occasionally took myself off it, and within two weeks I?m a miserable, unmotivated mess. Drugs can be a lifesaver, and I encourage anybody with mental illness to consider them.
In terms of talk therapy, I had someone who really helped who basically taught me how to deal with my anxiety by accepting that it?s there and letting it pass, and moving on. People?s brains trick themselves into talking themselves into circles of misery. And psychologists are trained to pinpoint that and help you change the behavior.

Edit: Also wanted to tack on: Do you have any solutions when the enjoyment you get from your main hobbies gets pretty patchy? (something I've noticed in myself in the past couple of years, and hoping that I won't reach a stage where I regularly get no enjoyment out of them, as I'm pretty reliant on them)

Absolutely, and when I notice my passion start to wane, I change what I?m doing. Life ebbs and flows, and I find that trying to force enjoyment on a hobby eliminates the point, and then you start to associate negativity to your hobby. Take a break from it. Use the time to find a new hobby. It doesn?t have to be as good as the other one, it just has to occupy you until you are in the mood for the mainstay.
We tend to quickly get reliant on things, so even though you feel really reliant on your one hobby, after 3 days of not doing it you?ll be in the routine of doing something else.

 

[Majinash]

What do you do to mitigate the inevitable social judgement that comes with being the ?forever alone? type (I know, I?m sorry, but its succinct ), who?s always done poorly socially when you have to interact; or you?re just trying to make social interaction go more smoothly?

Did you make peace with your lot in life and how did you?

I think these two went hand in hand for me. One day I just "clicked" and accepted that I was myself. I can't tell you exactly when, or why because I raelly don't know. But once I just came to terms with the fact that I am the person I am and I don't need to change that, all of a sudden there was no fear of social judgment about how I lived my life.

I used to feel really uncomfortable in social situations when things I used to be ashamed of came up. I'm a guy who gets a lot of trouble for being sensitive and loving animals (yay cats) and it used to make me feel self concious. I still get trouble for it from friends and coworkers, but I no longer feel uncomfortable about it. I can laugh about how yes, I'm pretty different than everyone else, and if I wasn't I would be pretty boring.

My mother had spent my entire childhood trying to tell me to just accept who I was and not worry about being judged by others, and it never took. One day it just happened, and that was a huge turning point for me.

Have you found ways to combat that lack of personal and physical intimacy successfully?

Nope. It's something I need in my life and when it's missing it can hurt. But life involves loss so I just accept that sometimes I'll have intimacy in my life, and sometimes I won't. I don't know of a good way to deal with a lack of intimacy other than simply looking foward to a time when I'll have it.

What type of lifestyle do you live and does it satisfy you? Why and how?

I work fulltime and go to school. When I'm not working I play video games and watch anime. Also these past 2 years I've started to really value the time I spent with my parents. Spent 4th of july weekend with them and it was wonderful. I go out with coworkers semi-frequently after work, and on the rare occasion go to a party or game night or something.

Does it satisfy me? mostly yes. It could be better, a lot better. But I've found ways to enjoy it (in large part being more social at work, thats at least 40 hours of every week) and so I'm in a state of "glad to be me, wouldn't mind being Bill Gates".

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

Nope. I don't mean to say therapy doesn't work, just that it never worked for me when I was younger, and I'm of the opinion that it won't work for me now and thus havn't tried again.

 

[Terria Mountain]

Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate the openness, it's the most useful kind of responses someone could give

Fun question. I?m 25, and will try to answer these.


I?ve been single for 3 years now, and I?ll admit that every day I have some kind of depressed ?I wish I wasn?t alone? feeling. Then I realized that if I really wanted a physically intimate connection, I would go out and seek it. I want a girlfriend, but apparently not enough to go out and meet all kinds of girls. The grass is always greener. I?m sure that if I had a girlfriend I?d feel smothered and like I don?t get to be my own person.

I suppose for me it's difficult to feel any kind of reassurance, since it's been no one, ever. And that's after making big changes to my life and being vey deliberate and methodical at seeking out opportunities to get to know more people and develop broader and more challenging interests. I've never found a woman who seemed to show any real enthusiasm for dating me. I seem to be fairly invisible or forgettable to most to be honest, even without getting into the dating side. I've met the odd one here or there that probably would settle for me in a sense, but I'm pretty confident I've never been anyone's desired interest. I know the common idea is to just not care, but frankly, it is very difficult to be blasé about that fact that I routinely bring out this kind of reaction (or non reaction, in a lot of cases ); and to not feel a sense of inherent social and/ or physical defectiveness, because I can't come up with any other logical conclusion.

Part of the reason I put this post up is because I thought it'd be nice for anyone in my position to feel less alone, and also because there's really very little advice out there for such people on what to actually DO. Most advice I've looked up kind of goes down the path of not really believing this happens to anyone; but since it does, someone somewhere needs to try to gather together some constructive and practical advice.

I appreciate you commenting on this anyway (I know my situation is pretty rare, so most of commenters aren't going to have quite the same experience to pass on), but some of us have literally no reason, or past positive experience to indicate anyone could actually want us. Very alienating and lonely position to be in. Important to conceal from people you deal with in reality, unless you're patient enough to deal with the unnecessary extra social grief and frustrations; so I wanted to do something to deal with it directly for myself, and hopefully help someone else in the bargain.


My main problem may be that I need to learn to convince myself to be satisfied with substantially less than average when it comes to social and personal intimacy fulfilment. Anyone got some words of wisdom on that?

Also, yes I admit I have some competitive elements to my personality, so part of this is disliking the fact that I compare very poorly socially and romantically to the rest of the population. I think the issue with feeling a powerful emptiness/ depression about a long string of failed efforts to improve this part of my life is pretty normal though, regardless of that. There clearly is some element to me that paints me as very disposable to most others for this to be such a long term trend.

More shared experiences or successfully worked alternative lifestyles for people like myself would be welcome. I'm really keen on this being a useful thread for others too, with plenty of constructive, preferably tried and tested practical ideas.

Did you make peace with your lot in life and how did you?

I think these two went hand in hand for me. One day I just "clicked" and accepted that I was myself. I can't tell you exactly when, or why because I raelly don't know. But once I just came to terms with the fact that I am the person I am and I don't need to change that, all of a sudden there was no fear of social judgment about how I lived my life.

Yeah, maybe I'm still waiting for that click. I'm definitely not the person I want to be, but a lot of that is because what I want to be goes beyond my pastimes and a job. It's always felt important to me to build strong personal bonds, I've just always had a struggle making anything stick. Actually, tbh I'm not really happy with my progress hobby and job wise, I'm just fitting in what I can in the time available. Kind of trivial, but tiredness and tendon strain have got in my way a fair bit recently with climbing, guitar (and sometimes with work), which is disheartening, when nothing else is going forward either.

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

Nope. I don't mean to say therapy doesn't work, just that it never worked for me when I was younger, and I'm of the opinion that it won't work for me now and thus haven't tried again.

Yeah, I'm very much on the fence. I don't see what a therapist can do beyond attempt to word a fact a different way. Building self-esteem or positive self-image on an easily deconstructed piece of spin doesn't seem very wise to be honest. I also don't want to spend much money on something so intangible, when someone might suggest something practical that's really worked.

 

[Johnny Impact]

Have you found ways to combat that lack of personal and physical intimacy successfully?

No. I fill the time with books, games, and the occasional hike, but it still feels like there's a hole in my life.

Have you found a way over the poor feelings of self-worth that tend to come with being the rejectable type?

No. I look at it like being born without a limb: you can live a reasonably full life, climb mountains, etc, but at the end of the day you will ALWAYS wish you had that hand/leg/whatever.

What do you do to mitigate the inevitable social judgement that comes with being the 'forever alone' type (I know, I'm sorry, but its succinct ), who's always done poorly socially when you have to interact; or you're just trying to make social interaction go more smoothly?

For starters, you should not feel obligated to make things smoother for advice givers. People who say 'cheer up' as if happiness is a button you can press, or 'you'll find someone someday' as if they know the future, are not really trying to help. People throw this stuff at you so they can feel like they're helping. They do it because it makes them feel good. This also shows that they don't care enough to give you a serious/honest response ("I really don't know" being the only accurate thing they could say in most cases), so don't be afraid to tell them it's not helping. The people around me didn't get it until I began to mercilessly dismantle every garbage platitude they handed me. Unpleasant, yes, but so is having your problems trivialized. You deserve better than that.

Also, recognize that you are NOT obligated to meet someone, settle down, have kids, and so forth, and that not doing so does NOT make you a failure. It might make you sad, but that's not the same. Except maybe it is, since quality of life is measured in happiness. I don't know. Anyway, people spend decades trapped in horrible relationships. It's not a sure path to victory.

Third, avoid pity like the plague. Pity is a form of condescension. Most especially you should avoid people doing things for you out of pity, e.g. dating you because they feel sorry for you. That's unhealthy for both of you.

Fourth, stick up for yourself. Absolutely do not take shit. I took it and took it and took it and should never have. It screwed me up. I was the butt of so many jokes, I'm at the point now where if a woman came up to me and stared being nice, I'd ask her who put her up to it. And I don't mean I'd make light of the situation and laugh at my own misfortune, I mean "I'm grabbing her arm in a painful grip and she's not walking away until I get the name of the shitbag perpetrating this offense, because this is never happening again." I've been shown over and over that the benefit of the doubt just gets you kicked, and I have never once kicked back. This attitude has poisoned my whole outlook and it will poison yours if you let it. I don't know how to get back to a place where I could believe positive interaction was a thing that could happen to me. For you, I would suggest promptly and aggressively addressing any improper action. Try not to end up in jail, but at all costs do not become a total victim.

What type of lifestyle do you live and does it satisfy you? Why and how?

Simple and quiet. I have a weekly Pathfinder game that is my only social interaction. I hate crowds so I don't do big events. I don't drink or smoke anything so the bar scene is out. I'm the boss at work so people don't talk to me like they do each other. I detest sports, politics, and pop culture, so there's very little to talk about with most people. I read a lot, play games, watch every episode of Feed Dump, etc. This post (and maybe an hour of Payday with friends) is as close to real social interaction as I will get all week. This has been my existence for so long I can't remember anything else.

How have you planned for your future and older age? Did you make peace with your lot in life and how did you?

I have two IRAs which look like they'll be large enough to retire on when the time comes. I'm going to look into buying a better home in the next year or two. I have attempted to resign myself to being alone the rest of my life and eventually dying that way but it hasn't really worked. I'm in good health and have a great family (siblings and parents, not one of my own). It's going to have to be enough.

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

There's nothing any $300 an hour therapist can tell me that I haven't already heard. I know other people feel this way, somewhere there's a woman feeling just as lost as I do, confidence is built slowly, happiness is a journey, blah blah blah, heard it before. Therapists are really just there to listen to you whine about your problems. I can do that on the Escapist for free.

If you were someone who really and truly got into a relationship with someone else because neither of you could find someone you really wanted that wanted you back, did it work out well in the end? What?s changed about your relationship to make it work if it did?

Nope. Never had a relationship. It's never gone farther than a couple dates.

Do you have any solutions when the enjoyment you get from your main hobbies gets pretty patchy?

Switching to a different hobby usually helps. I go months without painting a miniature sometimes, then I do nothing else for two weeks. I've only had a couple times when all my activities have been empty and unfulfilling. I don't have a good coping mechanism for when my other coping mechanisms fail. Historically, I've just sort of fogged out and time has ended up wasted. I mean totally and completely wasted, not 'wasting your life on video games' wasted. Like it's just gone, I remember sitting in the computer chair for thirteen hours but didn't even have the willpower to load up a game.

 

[DayDark]

I know you don't want any advice how to get better, but more on how to deal with just the way things are. I'm not gonna tell you someone is gonna come some day or that things will change with time, they won't, things will only change if you change them, and that can be a daunting task. You should stop worrying about being attractive to others and first become attractive to yourself. If you don't like your body, change it until you find yourself attractive. Secondly, don't wait around. You make it sound like you are waiting for someone to show interest in you, don't wait, I know it's difficult to have approach anxiety, but start small, smile at random people, say hi or good afternoon to strangers, smalltalk, make friendly comments, don't make long stories, just small questions and comments to the answers. And if you have an interest in someone, if you develop feelings for someone, you need to find a way to tell them, even if it's a total lost cause, you need the input about the rejection, when they reject you and say they don't like you that way, you need to ask what about you that they were perhaps put off by, it is gonna hurt, but you need to understand how they perceived you, so you can isolate the problem, and change your approach.

 

[Terria Mountain]

Have you found ways to combat that lack of personal and physical intimacy successfully?

No. I fill the time with books, games, and the occasional hike, but it still feels like there's a hole in my life.

Have you found a way over the poor feelings of self-worth that tend to come with being the rejectable type?

No. I look at it like being born without a limb: you can live a reasonably full life, climb mountains, etc, but at the end of the day you will ALWAYS wish you had that hand/leg/whatever.

What do you do to mitigate the inevitable social judgement that comes with being the 'forever alone' type (I know, I'm sorry, but its succinct ), who's always done poorly socially when you have to interact; or you're just trying to make social interaction go more smoothly?

For starters, you should not feel obligated to make things smoother for advice givers. People who say 'cheer up' as if happiness is a button you can press, or 'you'll find someone someday' as if they know the future, are not really trying to help. People throw this stuff at you so they can feel like they're helping. They do it because it makes them feel good. This also shows that they don't care enough to give you a serious/honest response ("I really don't know" being the only accurate thing they could say in most cases), so don't be afraid to tell them it's not helping. The people around me didn't get it until I began to mercilessly dismantle every garbage platitude they handed me. Unpleasant, yes, but so is having your problems trivialized. You deserve better than that.

Also, recognize that you are NOT obligated to meet someone, settle down, have kids, and so forth, and that not doing so does NOT make you a failure. It might make you sad, but that's not the same. Except maybe it is, since quality of life is measured in happiness. I don't know. Anyway, people spend decades trapped in horrible relationships. It's not a sure path to victory.

Third, avoid pity like the plague. Pity is a form of condescension. Most especially you should avoid people doing things for you out of pity, e.g. dating you because they feel sorry for you. That's unhealthy for both of you.

Fourth, stick up for yourself. Absolutely do not take shit. I took it and took it and took it and should never have. It screwed me up. I was the butt of so many jokes, I'm at the point now where if a woman came up to me and stared being nice, I'd ask her who put her up to it. And I don't mean I'd make light of the situation and laugh at my own misfortune, I mean "I'm grabbing her arm in a painful grip and she's not walking away until I get the name of the shitbag perpetrating this offense, because this is never happening again." I've been shown over and over that the benefit of the doubt just gets you kicked, and I have never once kicked back. This attitude has poisoned my whole outlook and it will poison yours if you let it. I don't know how to get back to a place where I could believe positive interaction was a thing that could happen to me. For you, I would suggest promptly and aggressively addressing any improper action. Try not to end up in jail, but at all costs do not become a total victim.

What type of lifestyle do you live and does it satisfy you? Why and how?

Simple and quiet. I have a weekly Pathfinder game that is my only social interaction. I hate crowds so I don't do big events. I don't drink or smoke anything so the bar scene is out. I'm the boss at work so people don't talk to me like they do each other. I detest sports, politics, and pop culture, so there's very little to talk about with most people. I read a lot, play games, watch every episode of Feed Dump, etc. This post (and maybe an hour of Payday with friends) is as close to real social interaction as I will get all week. This has been my existence for so long I can't remember anything else.

How have you planned for your future and older age? Did you make peace with your lot in life and how did you?

I have two IRAs which look like they'll be large enough to retire on when the time comes. I'm going to look into buying a better home in the next year or two. I have attempted to resign myself to being alone the rest of my life and eventually dying that way but it hasn't really worked. I'm in good health and have a great family (siblings and parents, not one of my own). It's going to have to be enough.

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

There's nothing any $300 an hour therapist can tell me that I haven't already heard. I know other people feel this way, somewhere there's a woman feeling just as lost as I do, confidence is built slowly, happiness is a journey, blah blah blah, heard it before. Therapists are really just there to listen to you whine about your problems. I can do that on the Escapist for free.

If you were someone who really and truly got into a relationship with someone else because neither of you could find someone you really wanted that wanted you back, did it work out well in the end? What?s changed about your relationship to make it work if it did?

Nope. Never had a relationship. It's never gone farther than a couple dates.

Do you have any solutions when the enjoyment you get from your main hobbies gets pretty patchy?

Switching to a different hobby usually helps. I go months without painting a miniature sometimes, then I do nothing else for two weeks. I've only had a couple times when all my activities have been empty and unfulfilling. I don't have a good coping mechanism for when my other coping mechanisms fail. Historically, I've just sort of fogged out and time has ended up wasted. I mean totally and completely wasted, not 'wasting your life on video games' wasted. Like it's just gone, I remember sitting in the computer chair for thirteen hours but didn't even have the willpower to load up a game.

Hi. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate you being so forthcoming and honest. It is helpful, getting a real practical perspective from someone who's found similar problems. Sorry I've taken ages coming back, my work went a bit crazy a few weeks ago, and I almost forgot about this post whilst trying to make sure I didn't let anything else slide too much. I think I still need to digest what you've said a little more before I can make much useful contribution back. I haven't made much successful change recently, tbh, still take opportunities as they arise and looking for more to sort out my personal and social life when I have the time, but no successes to bring back really.

 

[Terria Mountain]

I know you don't want any advice how to get better, but more on how to deal with just the way things are. I'm not gonna tell you someone is gonna come some day or that things will change with time, they won't, things will only change if you change them, and that can be a daunting task. You should stop worrying about being attractive to others and first become attractive to yourself. If you don't like your body, change it until you find yourself attractive. Secondly, don't wait around. You make it sound like you are waiting for someone to show interest in you, don't wait, I know it's difficult to have approach anxiety, but start small, smile at random people, say hi or good afternoon to strangers, smalltalk, make friendly comments, don't make long stories, just small questions and comments to the answers. And if you have an interest in someone, if you develop feelings for someone, you need to find a way to tell them, even if it's a total lost cause, you need the input about the rejection, when they reject you and say they don't like you that way, you need to ask what about you that they were perhaps put off by, it is gonna hurt, but you need to understand how they perceived you, so you can isolate the problem, and change your approach.

Again, apologies for the delayed reply. Appreciate the input

I get that you're coming from a positive place, but there are limits to what a person can change. I keep myself in good shape with regular exercise and a pretty strict diet, I'm well groomed, I've done all I can to keep myself put together well. Beyond extensive plastic surgery, there really isn't a lot left on the list of options. And I do all those things (initiating conversation, making openings for others etc). In fact, over the past year I've become way better at taking those jumps to start convos. I've made the awkward mistakes, and I'm much better now. But the same thing keeps coming back: Nothing sticks. We have a bit of small talk and everything falls of after that.

As for interest in dates, well I usually open casual opportunities for them to spend more time with me in a more one-on-one situation, preferably where we meet. E.g. do the same activity together at another time. Just to get a more personal rapport going. But I don't really get much positive feedback. I think that's a pretty good gauge over whether or not a girl has any interest in you. If she's not taking the opportunity to develop a more personal relationship with you in a relaxed setting, why would she want to go on a date with you? I'm just trying to work within the social etiquette of most sports clubs. Asking for a date flat out for a girl you've made small talk with 3 times is an abrupt step.

I don't agree that asking someone about why they're rejecting you is all that wise. People do not like answering that question, and the ones that do generally have a bit of a malicious streak. I'm not going up to a girl who's shot me down in the local sports club to take notes on all the things she finds unattractive about me. It's humiliating and it's only going to worsen whatever social reputation I have there, as people do talk. Can you give an example of when you yourself have done this, and had it work out well?
And to be honest, I'm not that awful! I mean, I have met much more socially clumsy people than me who seem to do very well, and unfortunately, it really does seem to be down to basic appearance or some kind of perception of social value. I've heard people get away with saying crass things that I'd receive filthy looks for when out in the town or at an activity club. I don't claim to be perfect, but there's no way I'm genuinely so personally unpleasant that I should be told what tricks to perform to meet some big-heads idea of the right perception. I do pay attention to people reactions and body language as I talk to them, so I know when to give space, and how to hold a friendly conversation without being overbearing or cold. It seems to be quite literally that people don't see much purpose in getting to know me much beyond social pleasantries and a bit of brief conversation. It is a two way street, after all.

 

[DayDark]

I know you don't want any advice how to get better, but more on how to deal with just the way things are. I'm not gonna tell you someone is gonna come some day or that things will change with time, they won't, things will only change if you change them, and that can be a daunting task. You should stop worrying about being attractive to others and first become attractive to yourself. If you don't like your body, change it until you find yourself attractive. Secondly, don't wait around. You make it sound like you are waiting for someone to show interest in you, don't wait, I know it's difficult to have approach anxiety, but start small, smile at random people, say hi or good afternoon to strangers, smalltalk, make friendly comments, don't make long stories, just small questions and comments to the answers. And if you have an interest in someone, if you develop feelings for someone, you need to find a way to tell them, even if it's a total lost cause, you need the input about the rejection, when they reject you and say they don't like you that way, you need to ask what about you that they were perhaps put off by, it is gonna hurt, but you need to understand how they perceived you, so you can isolate the problem, and change your approach.

Again, apologies for the delayed reply. Appreciate the input

I get that you're coming from a positive place, but there are limits to what a person can change. I keep myself in good shape with regular exercise and a pretty strict diet, I'm well groomed, I've done all I can to keep myself put together well. Beyond extensive plastic surgery, there really isn't a lot left on the list of options. And I do all those things (initiating conversation, making openings for others etc). In fact, over the past year I've become way better at taking those jumps to start convos. I've made the awkward mistakes, and I'm much better now. But the same thing keeps coming back: Nothing sticks. We have a bit of small talk and everything falls of after that.

As for interest in dates, well I usually open casual opportunities for them to spend more time with me in a more one-on-one situation, preferably where we meet. E.g. do the same activity together at another time. Just to get a more personal rapport going. But I don't really get much positive feedback. I think that's a pretty good gauge over whether or not a girl has any interest in you. If she's not taking the opportunity to develop a more personal relationship with you in a relaxed setting, why would she want to go on a date with you? I'm just trying to work within the social etiquette of most sports clubs. Asking for a date flat out for a girl you've made small talk with 3 times is an abrupt step.

I don't agree that asking someone about why they're rejecting you is all that wise. People do not like answering that question, and the ones that do generally have a bit of a malicious streak. I'm not going up to a girl who's shot me down in the local sports club to take notes on all the things she finds unattractive about me. It's humiliating and it's only going to worsen whatever social reputation I have there, as people do talk. Can you give an example of when you yourself have done this, and had it work out well?
And to be honest, I'm not that awful! I mean, I have met much more socially clumsy people than me who seem to do very well, and unfortunately, it really does seem to be down to basic appearance or some kind of perception of social value. I've heard people get away with saying crass things that I'd receive filthy looks for when out in the town or at an activity club. I don't claim to be perfect, but there's no way I'm genuinely so personally unpleasant that I should be told what tricks to perform to meet some big-heads idea of the right perception. I do pay attention to people reactions and body language as I talk to them, so I know when to give space, and how to hold a friendly conversation without being overbearing or cold. It seems to be quite literally that people don't see much purpose in getting to know me much beyond social pleasantries and a bit of brief conversation. It is a two way street, after all.

Okay, it's seems to me to come down to your perception of yourself, and confidence. When someone gets away with something crass, it's usually because they say it with confidence and maybe kind of tongue in cheek. For example you can feel when someone says something and trying to be funny, and when someone says something, because they consider it funny themselves, and if the other people laugh it's more of a bonus.


Okay the point of asking about the cause of rejection is to gain insight into how you are perceived by others. I didn't mean to go back and find the girls that shot you down, i meant in the moment,just after you've been rejected, just dig a little into the reasoning, it doesn't matter if they don't like to answer such questions, this is important, it gives you something to reflect upon, don't take it as fact, these people don't know you well enough for such things.

Okay an example of me doing it was a girl i had met in town, we clicked pretty good and we made out later that night, but there wasn't any opportunity to make it into more. After that we texted back and forth, until she suddenly called it off and said it was probably best we didn't meet again. I asked why, and she basically said that i write too much and it seems like i have nothing else to do, which was completely true, i had just come out of a marriage and was rather lonely and had been taken texting her every day, and not really short message, i was being weird and clingy. So that was that. It hurt, of course, but it taught me why the fuck everyone waits foe fucking ever to write, it's because their busy, or want to seem busy . I've had some absolutely brutal takedowns, somw girls can get really vicious, you just have to remember that you know your not a bad guy, and they don't know you.

 

[Terria Mountain]

I know you don't want any advice how to get better, but more on how to deal with just the way things are. I'm not gonna tell you someone is gonna come some day or that things will change with time, they won't, things will only change if you change them, and that can be a daunting task. You should stop worrying about being attractive to others and first become attractive to yourself. If you don't like your body, change it until you find yourself attractive. Secondly, don't wait around. You make it sound like you are waiting for someone to show interest in you, don't wait, I know it's difficult to have approach anxiety, but start small, smile at random people, say hi or good afternoon to strangers, smalltalk, make friendly comments, don't make long stories, just small questions and comments to the answers. And if you have an interest in someone, if you develop feelings for someone, you need to find a way to tell them, even if it's a total lost cause, you need the input about the rejection, when they reject you and say they don't like you that way, you need to ask what about you that they were perhaps put off by, it is gonna hurt, but you need to understand how they perceived you, so you can isolate the problem, and change your approach.

Again, apologies for the delayed reply. Appreciate the input

I get that you're coming from a positive place, but there are limits to what a person can change. I keep myself in good shape with regular exercise and a pretty strict diet, I'm well groomed, I've done all I can to keep myself put together well. Beyond extensive plastic surgery, there really isn't a lot left on the list of options. And I do all those things (initiating conversation, making openings for others etc). In fact, over the past year I've become way better at taking those jumps to start convos. I've made the awkward mistakes, and I'm much better now. But the same thing keeps coming back: Nothing sticks. We have a bit of small talk and everything falls of after that.

As for interest in dates, well I usually open casual opportunities for them to spend more time with me in a more one-on-one situation, preferably where we meet. E.g. do the same activity together at another time. Just to get a more personal rapport going. But I don't really get much positive feedback. I think that's a pretty good gauge over whether or not a girl has any interest in you. If she's not taking the opportunity to develop a more personal relationship with you in a relaxed setting, why would she want to go on a date with you? I'm just trying to work within the social etiquette of most sports clubs. Asking for a date flat out for a girl you've made small talk with 3 times is an abrupt step.

I don't agree that asking someone about why they're rejecting you is all that wise. People do not like answering that question, and the ones that do generally have a bit of a malicious streak. I'm not going up to a girl who's shot me down in the local sports club to take notes on all the things she finds unattractive about me. It's humiliating and it's only going to worsen whatever social reputation I have there, as people do talk. Can you give an example of when you yourself have done this, and had it work out well?
And to be honest, I'm not that awful! I mean, I have met much more socially clumsy people than me who seem to do very well, and unfortunately, it really does seem to be down to basic appearance or some kind of perception of social value. I've heard people get away with saying crass things that I'd receive filthy looks for when out in the town or at an activity club. I don't claim to be perfect, but there's no way I'm genuinely so personally unpleasant that I should be told what tricks to perform to meet some big-heads idea of the right perception. I do pay attention to people reactions and body language as I talk to them, so I know when to give space, and how to hold a friendly conversation without being overbearing or cold. It seems to be quite literally that people don't see much purpose in getting to know me much beyond social pleasantries and a bit of brief conversation. It is a two way street, after all.

Okay, it's seems to me to come down to your perception of yourself, and confidence. When someone gets away with something crass, it's usually because they say it with confidence and maybe kind of tongue in cheek. For example you can feel when someone says something and trying to be funny, and when someone says something, because they consider it funny themselves, and if the other people laugh it's more of a bonus.


Okay the point of asking about the cause of rejection is to gain insight into how you are perceived by others. I didn't mean to go back and find the girls that shot you down, i meant in the moment,just after you've been rejected, just dig a little into the reasoning, it doesn't matter if they don't like to answer such questions, this is important, it gives you something to reflect upon, don't take it as fact, these people don't know you well enough for such things.

Okay an example of me doing it was a girl i had met in town, we clicked pretty good and we made out later that night, but there wasn't any opportunity to make it into more. After that we texted back and forth, until she suddenly called it off and said it was probably best we didn't meet again. I asked why, and she basically said that i write too much and it seems like i have nothing else to do, which was completely true, i had just come out of a marriage and was rather lonely and had been taken texting her every day, and not really short message, i was being weird and clingy. So that was that. It hurt, of course, but it taught me why the fuck everyone waits foe fucking ever to write, it's because their busy, or want to seem busy . I've had some absolutely brutal takedowns, somw girls can get really vicious, you just have to remember that you know your not a bad guy, and they don't know you.

I see what you mean about being relaxed and giving and impression of not being concerned by judgement when making silly comments. Honestly, I'm a bit hit-and-miss with that. I was more focusing on comments that could be taken as kind of rude, lacking in self-awareness or tact.

I'll see how tings go with getting feedback. That's pretty situation dependent. Every now and again when acquaintances get a bit closer and friendlier, I have conversations like that before. For example, where they might give a comment of an impression they've got from me, and I've followed up by asking what built take impression (relaxed conversations, not argumentative ones).

Thanks for being upfront with that story. I know it's kind of fashionable to take that attitude with people (writing them off for not being engaged with a lot else; or socially in-demand); but I think it's a bit of a callous and superior attitude (and I am someone who makes the effort to keep pretty busy, anyway). I still think it was unnecessary and maybe short-sighted for her to react so harshly. People can take up new hobbies now/ in the future, and recover completely from big breakups as time goes on. I'm sure she's been in a less than great place in her personal life. It'd be interesting to see if she's supportive of the idea that others should push her away in that situation. I have a hard time understanding why she (or most people in general) couldn't have a simple, frank discussion with you about taking more time for yourself and taking a break from relationships for a couple of months, whilst keeping contact in the background. If you were talking that much, you must've had a pretty good rapport? Anyway, I'm probably digressing a little, so I'll stop here. Again, I appreciate your honesty

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Ill be turning 26 this year. Still never been kissed. Three years ago I decided to go for a healthier lifestyle, I lost 40kgs and started going out more, reconnecting with my friends and socialising. My main motivation was to find a girlfriend. But it never happened. I made a fool out of myself asking the first woman out who was nice to me, as having lost weight and gained confidence I was actually able to talk to women. I asked her for coffee and she came along, I was so happy about it, my first date, only it wasnt a date. She was coming along as a friend, she saw it as reconnecting with an old friend from college, I saw it as me wanting to date a woman who had changed a lot since then that I never paid much attention to back in the day(she was just a party girl back then, but now shes mature, a lot better looking since she works out and doesnt drink at all anymore). I never was brave enough to actually let her now I wanted her so that was a fuck up and I hate how awkward she got around me after that. I just wanted to pretend like it never happened but it changed things. But she went to england to do teaching just a few weeks ago, she actually invited me for a coffee and we talked and it was nice and she hugged me again like she used to before I asked her out so it felt like Id finally fixed that issue.

Another woman after that was a younger woman, around 20 at the time, I dont know whether or not she was actually interested in me but she did love flirting with me. Shed be touchy feely with me all the time, grabbing my leg and dancing with me. I should have asked her out but she was in a purely sexual friends with benefits relationship with my friend, and I convinced myself she wasnt interested in me because she loved him. Later on talking to her she did admit she had feelings for him when she was talking to me in the car, but I still cant decide whether she was over those feelings and actually interested in me. It doesnt matter now she has a boyfriend.

Ive gained weight since those two events, im back up to 100kgs and I might sound shallow and judegemental but I think women were more interested in me back when I was 80-90 kgs. Thats either because of my self confidence or maybe looking at old photos I was more attractive then than I realised. Im just not motivated to lose weight again this time, I though it would be the solution to all my problems getting thin, but it just made things a little better, didnt come close to fixing my issues.

But the thing that really motivates me, is to just try and focus on yourself, try to become a catch, be sucessful and even if you have an ugly face and a funny voice you can still try for a six pack, or at least look decent with exercise. Instead of trying to find the right woman just try to become the right man. Then eventually even if you cant get over shyness some super assertive woman will make the first move on you. Thats what Im hoping for anyway...

 

[clinicalPsychologist]

Did some kind of therapy work for you? If it did can you expand on how?

I didn't witness being um... "therapized" (is that the word?) myself, but I witnessed people going through therapy with good results.
What you describe could probably get diagnosed in some way or other, maybe not, but I think it doesn't need to and even then you could try therapy.
What actually is kinda alarming though is that you said you don't enjoy hobbies you used to like anymore. Is that all hobbies or just some that simply got boring? If it's former, it might be a sign of depression (well, you know this better than me). That should actually be properly diagnosed and treated if correct.

Okay back to which therapy might work: I don't know you well enough, but maybe cognitive behavioral therapy might help you. It is really good in treating problems related to fear/anxiousness.

If the therapist is properly trained they would work with you on two things:
a) Self-esteem, views on the world, views on yourself, how those might interfere with social interaction (like, thoughts that promote fear of being rejected etc). Also probably working on thoughts to make you deal better with how it is at the moment, even if love may not come.
b) Actually picking out situations that are hard for you and going through them, roleplaying them, trying them out etc., maybe even with video feedback later on that you and your therapist can look at and make out what in the interaction might be the thing that "usually kills it".

Just my two cents. You could try it if you want to and find a good therapist. But maybe it isn't needed at all:
Other than that, I probably would suggest what DayDark suggested, it runs in the same vein but without professional help (which might be better, it depends on how much it is a problem for you).

For general well-being, write down every evening 3 things that happened that day which were good. It can be small things, like having a really tasty chocolate.
It helped me dealing with difficult times.