So what do you guys think about heroes of the storm?

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I'm bored so I decided to make a topic that wouldn't start a flame war for once.

so recently I've been playing some heroes of the storm and have been enjoying it greatly. I tried to get into games like dota or lol. which I'm not saying are bad but I just couldn't get into them because I suck.

I would love to hear other people's opinions on the site about it from veteran moba players to newbies. Especially how divisive it is online I think it can make an interesting discussion.

 

[RJ 17]

I can say one thing: it's sure as hell a lot easier than LoL. I've been playing LoL for just about 2 years now and I'm still only mediocre at best. I'm not going to lose the match for my team, but I'm sure as hell not going to carry them either.

I started playing HotS a week or two ago and I'd say I have the best performance of my team at least 60% of the time. Maybe that comes from the fact that I've already been tested in the fires of LoL and as such can actually land skill-shots, know when to run away and when to pursue, and over-all have a good deal of map awareness. But honestly, I come into games with lvl 40's that apparently got there by just playing the game ceaselessly...because they still don't seem to have any clue what they're doing.

One of the things I like about the game is that it's much more objective oriented than LoL. There's even one map where you literally cannot win unless your team takes the objectives. And yet you'd be surprised how many dingle-berries out there run straight for a merc camp when the objectives come up.

So yeah...on the downside, the fact that the game is clearly designed more for casuals means that it can be quite frustrating for people coming from more difficult/skill-testing MOBAs because it means you're going to get stuck with a lot of players who evidently have no clue what the hell's going on...in a MOBA that's as watered down as it can possibly be.

Also: if I ever find out what Blizzard employee thought it was a good idea to give Cho'Gall infinite mana so that 2 players just get to spam the fuck out of all their abilities as much as they want, I'm going to drive to Blizzard HQ, find that fucker, and kick him right in the dick. >=(


Another also:

For your viewing entertainment:

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

So yeah...on the downside, the fact that the game is clearly designed more for casuals means that it can be quite frustrating for people coming from more difficult/skill-testing MOBAs because it means you're going to get stuck with a lot of players who evidently have no clue what the hell's going on...in a MOBA that's as watered down as it can possibly be.

Dear God this game can be fucking hilarious! it doesn't have the best plays but it has the best fails in any moba.


they just can't let the slug do slug things.

Also: if I ever find out what Blizzard employee thought it was a good idea to give Cho'Gall infinite mana so that 2 players just get to spam the fuck out of all their abilities as much as they want, I'm going to drive to Blizzard HQ, find that fucker, and kick him right in the dick. >=(

fun fact I've actually heard his underpowered. mostly because his counters counter him hard.

Another also:

For your viewing entertainment:

can't get enough of carbot.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

I play the game a fair bit, though I usually play against bots because Irish internet isn't amazing and the queue times are 10 times faster then quick match, on top of the reduced pressure on me not to fuck up.
I rather like how the game is designed and how it plays, I just wish I was better at it XD
The Player level thing only really takes into account how long someone has played the game and far less about how skilled they are in it and the matchmaking has gotten endless complaints but I still enjoy it and I have a semi-decent Raynor.

Also: if I ever find out what Blizzard employee thought it was a good idea to give Cho'Gall infinite mana so that 2 players just get to spam the fuck out of all their abilities as much as they want, I'm going to drive to Blizzard HQ, find that fucker, and kick him right in the dick. >=(

The main downside is that because he counts for 2 players, your teams map presence and EXP gain takes a heavy hit.
While there are some bullshit things you can do with the hero, the fact is that unless the Cho'Gall knows what he's doing, then he can be quickly taken down with some good assassins and the enemy team gets a free double kill.

While he is pretty powerful, he has enough drawbacks to keep him balanced IMO.

 

[RJ 17]

fun fact I've actually heard his underpowered. mostly because his counters counter him hard.

That's all well and good...except for the previous point about all the craptastic players out there. Having a hard counter to Cho'Gall doesn't really help when your hard counter is a flippin' moron.

To be fair, Cho'Gall definitely is a double-edge sword. Two players that really know how to handle him are an absolute terror...but if even one of them has no clue what's going on, the game is essentially 3v5.

Even so, the fact that he doesn't have a mana bar is hilariously broken.

 

[RJ 17]

The Player level thing only really takes into account how long someone has played the game and far less about how skilled they are

You'd think that someone at lvl 40 would have a good idea of the importance of objectives though, wouldn't you? They've clearly been playing for a while...so why is it when I'm playing on the map where the only way to damage the core is by taking the objectives I end up with 2-3 lvl 40's running off to a merc camp right as the objectives spawn?

The main downside is that because he counts for 2 players, your teams map presence and EXP gain takes a heavy hit.
While there are some bullshit things you can do with the hero, the fact is that unless the Cho'Gall knows what he's doing, then he can be quickly taken down with some good assassins and the enemy team gets a free double kill.

While he is pretty powerful, he has enough drawbacks to keep him balanced IMO.

As I told the OP: he's definitely a double-edged sword. If Cho'Gall is worthless, your team is essentially 3v5. If Cho'Gall knows what they're doing, then they're an absolute nightmare.

Apparently it's just been my luck that I always end up on a team that either has no clue how to handle Cho'Gall, or up against a Cho'Gall that knows exactly what they're doing.

 

[DoPo]

One of the things I like about the game is that it's much more objective oriented than LoL. There's even one map where you literally cannot win unless your team takes the objectives. And yet you'd be surprised how many dingle-berries out there run straight for a merc camp when the objectives come up.

Huh, my experience was the opposite, my teammates would not go after any objectives. Be they the map objectives or camps. Not all the time, but often enough.

The game is incredibly easy - the objectives are pretty much all you need to do. Team composition does factor in, but given two teams of equal-ish skill - one with a good team composition, one without but who go after camps and map objectives, then the latter would win.

Other than that, it's an alright game. I don't tend to play it because other people don't tend to understand the basic goals.

Some positives about it:
- it has short matches. They last 20-30 minutes tops most of the time which means you can pick up and play it without much worries. In DotA, by comparison, games normally take twice the time - 45 minutes is how much a normal game would last and sometimes they stretch up to an hour. Moreover, even if you're going to lose a game in DotA, it still takes a lot of time - the shorter games would be around 35-40 minutes, since even when outmatched, it takes time for the winning team to amass enough power to punch through the base defences. And on top of that, in DotA, the winning team can still artificially prolong the game, while that doesn't happen as much in HotS.

- no equipment, means that you don't need to worry about item builds. Frankly, I like that change - I also like having them, but I'm probably less likely to pick up another game where I need to familiarise myself with all of that again.

- in general, streamlined beginning of the game - you don't have to worry about XP (it's shared), you don't have to worry about laning and you even get all your skills in the beginning. Makes the game get to the conflict much more quickly.

- some interesting heroes - I tried the two headed ogre and that was actually a lot of fun. There are also other heroes with interesting mechanics, like the one who doesn't completely die but hangs around on the battle field in ghost form, or some of the Specialist heroes like Abathur. Sure, some of the others aren't that unique (the Abomination, for example, is very similar to Pudge in DotA - just shy of a complete rip-off) but still are fun enough to play.

- different maps - there is nothing bad with having a single map to play on (DotA would be a prime example of that), but in HotS, the different maps with slightly different rules and layouts do bring in some welcome variety.

- Blizzard humour - I have to give it to them - some of the the visuals, animations, skills, voicework, etc are just dripping with the Blizzard humour and it's quite good. Been a fan of that. I can't find the video right now, but there was one that showed different conversations between heroes at the start. My favourite one I remember was (approximately)

Tychus: Anybody have a light?

Diablo: YOUR WORLD SHALL BURN!

Tychus: As long as I get a light.

Then there is the two headed ogre. I found it hilarious that when you use your mount, it actually takes a horse and swings it over its shoulder. And then it starts running faster. Speaking of the ogre, Gall's "mount" is to slap Cho. I found that really amusing as well.

There are also downsides but I won't really go into as much detail. Mostly, it revolves around the game being simplified and the playerbase - what I started with. Then there is the other thing that it requires quite a lot of investment in either play or money or a mix of both, in order to actually get anywhere towards playing it "properly". And that's not really needed, as much. At least Smite allows you to buy all the heroes ever, including upcoming ones, for a flat fee.

At any rate, the game is OK, but, well, it's more casual. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does affect the experience to a degree and some may not like it. It's fun enough but it's not really for me. I don't necessarily want to discourage people from playing it, but it's definitely not for everybody. People who have experience with other games in the genre would find it a mixed bag and are more likely to be turned off, but some may find its exactly what they wanted and which other games didn't really cater to.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

You'd think that someone at lvl 40 would have a good idea of the importance of objectives though, wouldn't you? They've clearly been playing for a while...so why is it when I'm playing on the map where the only way to damage the core is by taking the objectives I end up with 2-3 lvl 40's running off to a merc camp right as the objectives spawn?

While I can't speak for everyone, I know the idea would be while the enemy is massing over the spawning objective, you would take a merc camp to push in a lane while they are busy fighting over the objective.
Some people just underestimate how long it takes to cap a merc camp

As I told the OP: he's definitely a double-edged sword. If Cho'Gall is worthless, your team is essentially 3v5. If Cho'Gall knows what they're doing, then they're an absolute nightmare.

Apparently it's just been my luck that I always end up on a team that either has no clue how to handle Cho'Gall, or up against a Cho'Gall that knows exactly what they're doing.

Agreed, haven't really had the pleasure to play as the guy because I don't have anyone in the EU region I could play with who had the character.
That and personally, I don't like his play style as much as Raynor or Leoric (My other main)

Snip

Two things:

1). While Laning isn't AS important, for certain talents like Seasoned Marksman or any regen globe talent, you will still need to lane a fair bit.
That and because you get EXP whenever an enemy minion dies nearby your character, you do have to be in lane until about level 10 when the team fights REALLY start picking up.

2). Pludge was actually created by Valve to replace the Abomination/Butcher character in DOTA 1 so technically he's the rip off.
Still, Stitches is still pretty similar in playstyle, only he has more of a focus on hooking in stragglers for his team to kill, while Pludge often just seems to outright kill people with his hook.

 

[DoPo]

2). Pludge was actually created by Valve to replace the Abomination/Butcher character in DOTA 1 so technically he's the rip off.

I won't stand for this:

Pudge was a character in DotA: Allstars back in the day. The skillset was pretty much the same as now - there have been minor changes to how the skills work over the yeras but hook, Rot, magic restist and Dismember have been present all the time and they were activated in the same way. Pudge is the name of the hero class is the Butcher.

Of all the heroes in Dota 2 that are shared with DotA: Allstars, Pudge has had the fewest changes. Essentially, the hero class was dropped, as Dota 2 has only a single thing to call heroes.

Moreover, the heroes in Dota 2 are not "recreated", well, at least not most of them (Skeleteon King had quite a facelift, others had smaller ones) - they are ported. As Dota 2 has IceFrog as a lead developer, it's re-e-e-e-e-e-ealy a stretch to claim that Valve "stole" anything from DotA: Allstars in any size, shape, or form.

Pudge is Pudge, regardless of where you take him from.

Furthermore, I didn't even talk about Dota 2 in that case - as I said, Pudge is Pudge, even if you could claim that Valve "recreated" him (and they didn't, so you can't, in reality) DotA: Allstars' incarnation of Pudge is exactly the same this the Abomination in Heroes of the Storm is still a near ripoff.

You can't even claim that the WC3 abominations served as a basis (and thus DotA or DotA: Allstars initially lifted the idea from there). No, the abominations had a single ability they share with Pudge, and that's Rot and Disease Cloud. Sure, yeah, the mechanics differ a lot but the idea is similar enough - an aura that damages. Animation is reused anyway, most likely because it's appropriate. There is also Dismember/Cannibalise but that becomes a stretch to an extent. The hook, which is the distinct ability of either hero hasn't been present as an ability in Warcraft 3 for abominations, neither has there even been a similar ability (long range skill shot that pulls a unit).

 

[meiam]

While the game is simpler, I doubt anybody in this thread was getting anywhere near the skill ceiling in DoTA 2 or even LoL, so it's kinda of a moot point imo since for 99% of player HoTS is complex enough. You have to play long enough so that matchmaking start placing you against player with equivalent skill if your coming from another moba since some of the player you'll face are completly new in your first few game.

Anyway, what I like about HoTS is that it's much easier to play random character, no need to look up build or try to remember all the hundreds of items available, especially when patch start messing up everything.

Also you start getting into team fight about 2-3 minute into the game rather than the usual 15 min, and moving around is a lot faster since you get mount, so essential it's like most moba but with the boring part cut out.

 

[RJ 17]

Huh, my experience was the opposite, my teammates would not go after any objectives. Be they the map objectives or camps. Not all the time, but often enough.

That's what I'm saying: my teammates apparently had philosophical objections for going after the objectives...unless you put an emphasis on "any" as in to say "my teammates wouldn't even go after merc camps when the main objectives came up." In which case, yeah, I've played with plenty of those types as well.

The game is incredibly easy - the objectives are pretty much all you need to do. Team composition does factor in, but given two teams of equal-ish skill - one with a good team composition, one without but who go after camps and map objectives, then the latter would win.

And that's one of the things I actually like about the game. As someone who's not amazing at LoL, I appreciate that this mixes things up and has the emphasis on taking objectives around the map. It pretty much eliminates the "laning phase" that games like DotA and LoL have. Once the first objective pops up there's a big team fight then after that both teams are pretty much roaming.

On the other than, that means that if you are stuck on a team with people who take an adamant moral stance against fighting for objectives you're pretty much guaranteed to lose. If your team gets cursed on the raven level? There goes at least half of your defenses. Get bombed by the pirate? There goes two forts. Get zapped by the sky lazer? Same as the pirate. And god help you if your team doesn't feel like collecting seeds on the garden level.

Other than that, it's an alright game. I don't tend to play it because other people don't tend to understand the basic goals.

My bnet name is Lemmings and I believe my ID number (or whatever that is) is 1233. I'm at least half-way compotent, so shoot me an invite if you want to play.

...I also like playing SCII co-op if you've got that, but fuck you if you want me to play Hearthstone.

Sure, some of the others aren't that unique (the Abomination, for example, is very similar to Pudge in DotA - just shy of a complete rip-off) but still are fun enough to play.

To be fair, Pudge in DotA was originally an Abomination in WCIII, so Blizzard was only ripping off what DotA already ripped off from Blizzard.

My favourite one I remember was (approximately)

Tychus: Anybody have a light?

Diablo: YOUR WORLD SHALL BURN!

Tychus: As long as I get a light.

I had a good one just last night:

Murky: Blargleblargle blargle-blargle.
Zargara: What did you just call me?

At any rate, the game is OK, but, well, it's more casual. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does affect the experience to a degree and some may not like it.

Indeed...such as sticking you with teammates that carry protest signs saying "Don't Take Objectives!" "Objectives Have Feelings Too!" "#ObjectiveLivesMatter!"

While I can't speak for everyone, I know the idea would be while the enemy is massing over the spawning objective, you would take a merc camp to push in a lane while they are busy fighting over the objective.
Some people just underestimate how long it takes to cap a merc camp

Surely it's not that difficult to realize that if you ignore the primary objectives your team is going to lose, right? Beyond the one which I've been referencing where you have to capture the objective in order to damage the enemy core, all the objectives are incredibly devastating. I can understand not going after the objective the first time it pops up, but after the pirate completely smashes a fort in a half at the beginning of the game, you'd think people would realize "Huh...maybe we should go after those gold coins...or at least stop the enemies from turning them in."

Unless the enemy is running 4 supports and a tank, you're not going to win a 3v5 team-fight around an objective. It's just not going to happen. Not even against the bots.

Agreed, haven't really had the pleasure to play as the guy because I don't have anyone in the EU region I could play with who had the character.
That and personally, I don't like his play style as much as Raynor or Leoric (My other main)

I've only played as Gall with a buddy. I looked up a build for him on Icy Veins and ran with it...and consistently got Most Hero Damage for my team. You're literally just an ability-spamming turret attached to a tank hero. The only real coordination you need is knowing when to blow up the ball that Cho throws out.

When I first started I played as Tyrande...but my main now is easily Sylvanas. I tried out Zargara last night and had fun with her, I can see myself doing well with her. In terms of tanks, I prefer Artanis (got him for free since I bought Legacy of the Void). If you build him properly and use him properly he basically never dies thanks to his passive shields. For assassins I like Kerrigan. Zeratul was the first one I tried out and had fun with...but he doesn't really do all that much damage. From there I went to Nova and I'm pretty decent with her. But I do best with the Queen of Blades.

 

[DoPo]

but fuck you if you want me to play Hearthstone.

But...but...won't you at least buy me dinner? Of flowers?

Eh, romance seems to be dead...



Nah, I've stopped playing Hearthstone myself. I don't play HotS, either - at most, I give it a go every once in a while with IRL friends of mine mostly because they insist and also to see how the game changes. So, we might not play any time soon. Whenever I play next, I'll see if you are available.

Agreed, haven't really had the pleasure to play as the guy because I don't have anyone in the EU region I could play with who had the character.

By the way, if you want Cho'Gall, I have him and I can give him to you. I'm in the EU servers. Shoot me a PM if you're interested. Due to the holiday season, it may be, like tomorrow at some point or maybe later (if you're unavailable).

 

[RJ 17]

Nah, I've stopped playing Hearthstone myself. I don't play HotS, either - at most, I give it a go every once in a while with IRL friends of mine mostly because they insist and also to see how the game changes. So, we might not play any time soon. Whenever I play next, I'll see if you are available.

Well derps to me as I didn't realize you're on the EU servers. I'm on the NA servers so it wouldn't really matter if you played it that much or not.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

While I can't speak for everyone, I know the idea would be while the enemy is massing over the spawning objective, you would take a merc camp to push in a lane while they are busy fighting over the objective.
Some people just underestimate how long it takes to cap a merc camp

Surely it's not that difficult to realize that if you ignore the primary objectives your team is going to lose, right? Beyond the one which I've been referencing where you have to capture the objective in order to damage the enemy core, all the objectives are incredibly devastating. I can understand not going after the objective the first time it pops up, but after the pirate completely smashes a fort in a half at the beginning of the game, you'd think people would realize "Huh...maybe we should go after those gold coins...or at least stop the enemies from turning them in."

Unless the enemy is running 4 supports and a tank, you're not going to win a 3v5 team-fight around an objective. It's just not going to happen. Not even against the bots.

Well, just to clear up what I was saying, the idea would be "Oh, Objective spawn! Quick, get a merc camp then rush them!"
There is a delay before the objectives really spawn so the idea would be while the enemy team is massing, you take a camp, then rush into the team fight.
That way, while the enemy team is fighting you, the mercs will push up the lanes and do some siege damage.
That's the Theory at least, the reality is much different because Mercs are longer to take then most people realize, even for specialists.

As for Towers of Doom (The one where the core can't be damaged conventionally), taking forts on that map increases the amount of damage your objectives do and getting all 6 causes 1 damage per minute or so to the enemy's core for free, as well as a fuck ton of EXP for every fort killed so it's actually pretty worthwhile.

As for my Mains, I played Raynor because that's the first hero you usually get and I rather liked his damage and ease of use, plus his E Talent at level 1 makes him pretty hard to kill.
Only issue is he can't really escape, but the trick there is good positioning.
I also have a Leoric, he's not as good as he used to be since they nerfed Drain Hope (To give you an idea, the level 4 talent upgrades it to the Pre-Nerf version X_X) but I really like just how few fucks he gives and his kit basically means I get healz for days from pretty much anything.
Outside of them, I also play a bunch of Specialists, mostly Azmodan because I love his Death Ray.

Now, keep in mind I mostly play against bots because I suck but yeah...them are my mains.

Snip

...I retract that statement then, It's clear I had bad info ^^;

As for Cho'Gall, I'll give you a buzz some time over the holidays if I get time for a few games

 

[The Wykydtron]

Eh I tried HoTS for a decent while, forgive me for sounding like a fuckboy but I couldn't find enough fun in the mechanics of the game. None of the characters were that fun compared to those in League or even DOTA. I got Jaina to level 10 but I got bored, I got ETC to level 9 or 10 and got bored, especially when they nerfed his Guitar Solo when it had a Trinity Force effect where you auto-E-auto for stupid damage and even more healing. Yeah they replaced it with a generic Follow Through trait but it was never the same.

I mean it's mostly too simplistic for me. How to ETC: Press Q then R and hope your team follows up. How to Jaina: press all of your buttons at max range and make sure you hit both hits of Blizzard if you can because that shit was stupid damage. Fun for a while but I got so bored.

I'm one of those people who actually likes the 10/15 minutes of laning phase in League. Then again I play a lot of Yasuo and his level 1/2 can be serious first blood cheese if the other guy doesn't respect it. I mean that basically sums it up for you, guy mains Yasuo. Finds HoTS gameplay too simplistic and therefore unfun. Checks out.

 

[RaikuFA]

Hate it just like every other MOBA.

 

[NinjaTank56]

I've been playing probably way too much of it lately. Especially since I got my brother to play with me. It is so much better having someone you know on voice chat, one less person doing their own thing, thinking their plan is much better than everyone else's...

I LOVE Cho'Gall! My favorite part is the way they combine both player's names (beware Nin'inja, for we are better than 90% of other Cho'Gall's. Which isn't saying much). I think having no mana bar is fine, it's not like anyone complains about Illidan not having one.

I think Heroes' level of complexity is fine. I never understood the appeal of spending 50+ hours learning last-hitting, item loadouts, ETC... before actually playing the game. I also like everything the game does to counteract snow-balling (why do most MOBA's have 2 resources that determine power? For some reason very few developers actually look at the mechanics from WC3 and test whether they help or hinder their version).

Overall it's still second to Awesomenauts, but I hope Heroes does well, if for no other reason than maybe a small portion of the tide of new MOBA's stop and glance at it for a second before copying LOL and DOTA 2.