So, what is it with the US education system?
- Thread starter The Geek Lord
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i went to a californian school system and it was incredibly easy to pass cuz every year they lower the standards to make more ppl pass for more funding.
It does make me mad when ppl say that america is the gratest country ever with our school system, broken healthcare, pollution, intolerable ppl, and even though we speak of equality we only want it for some ppl
It does make me mad when ppl say that america is the gratest country ever with our school system, broken healthcare, pollution, intolerable ppl, and even though we speak of equality we only want it for some ppl
I luckily go to a good school district that is one of the best public school systems in the state, but the way I see it is the main problem is that there isn't a country wide curriculum. My school pushes you and we usually only have 1 -2 drop outs in a class. Yet not all schools do. I don't really understand it to be honest though.
The way schools are done needs to be changed IMO, like when I was doing my Computer Science class the teacher mostly just gave a new method and that was it, everything else was in the activities where it would tell us what to do, but how we're supposed to do it is up to us. We could apply this to other classes IMO.
The schools suck for two reasons:
1) Teachers unions; They're about power/influence and squeezing as much out of the system as possible regardless of merit. The kids aren't a priority. Also, there's nothing to really keep them in check because there is not much competition when you HAVE to send your kids to certain public schools depending on your residence. Private schools are often too few or too expensive to be a viable alternative to enough students to give the public schools a run for their money.
2) Progressivism; You know that thing where the rich have to carry the poor because they're rich and they're poor--and the rich go to jail if they don't? Well, now the "rich" is everyone who's not below the poverty line, and the "poor" is everyone but the top 10%. Our current philosophy on the role of government is that it can demand money for anything it wants to do for the public good. The result? In the 3rd most populous nation in the world? Too little money going in way too many directions. There's not enough money to fund even the most fundamental institutions (military, fire, police) because so much tax money is also going to Woodstock museums, public art projects, bridges to nowhere, and $800K mayors with $400K pensions.
Having said that, our private schools are all excellent. Funny how that works, huh?
1) Teachers unions; They're about power/influence and squeezing as much out of the system as possible regardless of merit. The kids aren't a priority. Also, there's nothing to really keep them in check because there is not much competition when you HAVE to send your kids to certain public schools depending on your residence. Private schools are often too few or too expensive to be a viable alternative to enough students to give the public schools a run for their money.
2) Progressivism; You know that thing where the rich have to carry the poor because they're rich and they're poor--and the rich go to jail if they don't? Well, now the "rich" is everyone who's not below the poverty line, and the "poor" is everyone but the top 10%. Our current philosophy on the role of government is that it can demand money for anything it wants to do for the public good. The result? In the 3rd most populous nation in the world? Too little money going in way too many directions. There's not enough money to fund even the most fundamental institutions (military, fire, police) because so much tax money is also going to Woodstock museums, public art projects, bridges to nowhere, and $800K mayors with $400K pensions.
Having said that, our private schools are all excellent. Funny how that works, huh?
I go to a charter school for the gifted and talented up here in Canada, so I have no actual experience with the american school system or any public school system in general. I find that generally there are three things that can stop a kid from being smart.
1. The kid himself. Even at my school there are some kids who just don't care. They don't care about their life five years from now, they care about it right now, they just want to have fun and jerk around not doing anything productive. If they're unwilling to learn, it's hard for them to be taught, but not necessarily impossible.
2. The teacher. A good teacher can often make the difference for a child. If a teacher is hands on with their students, they can help individual students learn in different ways. If a student is unwilling to learn because they're bored, then make it more interesting. I have one social teacher who will often spend an entire class at the front of the class talking, about nothing in particular, but often times he would talk about current events and he would find a way to make it more interesting, often having class discussions all class. Everyone loved his class, and even under achievers did well.
3. Marks. It's all about marks. Parents care about marks, teachers care about makrs, and you're supposed to as well. But what that often leads to is cramming for that big test, and then forgetting everything right after. "read these textbook pages and we'll have a test on it tomorrow." What a terrible way to do things, the students will go throgh the textbook, meorize everything they think is important, and not actually learn anything.
I generally don't run into these problems at my school, but the schools you refer to probably have these problems, which makes it much harder to learn. Not to mention I also have absolutely no clue as to what the american curriculim is supposed to teach, maybe the material is just outdated or doesn't cover enough.
1. The kid himself. Even at my school there are some kids who just don't care. They don't care about their life five years from now, they care about it right now, they just want to have fun and jerk around not doing anything productive. If they're unwilling to learn, it's hard for them to be taught, but not necessarily impossible.
2. The teacher. A good teacher can often make the difference for a child. If a teacher is hands on with their students, they can help individual students learn in different ways. If a student is unwilling to learn because they're bored, then make it more interesting. I have one social teacher who will often spend an entire class at the front of the class talking, about nothing in particular, but often times he would talk about current events and he would find a way to make it more interesting, often having class discussions all class. Everyone loved his class, and even under achievers did well.
3. Marks. It's all about marks. Parents care about marks, teachers care about makrs, and you're supposed to as well. But what that often leads to is cramming for that big test, and then forgetting everything right after. "read these textbook pages and we'll have a test on it tomorrow." What a terrible way to do things, the students will go throgh the textbook, meorize everything they think is important, and not actually learn anything.
I generally don't run into these problems at my school, but the schools you refer to probably have these problems, which makes it much harder to learn. Not to mention I also have absolutely no clue as to what the american curriculim is supposed to teach, maybe the material is just outdated or doesn't cover enough.
I guess it depends what you define as "education" the problem I see prevalent in the developed world is a tendency to shy away from traditional right/wrong academia in favor of a "Little timmy might not be doing so well in traditional subjects but he is doing well in social education and learning to control his boisterous personality." AKA: This little monster is failing everything but we can't risk upsetting the parents.
A relative of mine who is a teacher and works internationally visited us recently, he is from New Zealand originally but now he is working at (and his children attending) an international academy in Thailand. He is convinced that his kids get a better standard of education there than they would in New Zealand because they are using a scheme developed in the Uk.
I don't know how American schooling compares but I see this as a problem in the developed world as a whole.
In an attempt to improve everyone's quality of life it seems we are bringing about a situation of reverse-darwinism. (Thats just my opinion mind)
A relative of mine who is a teacher and works internationally visited us recently, he is from New Zealand originally but now he is working at (and his children attending) an international academy in Thailand. He is convinced that his kids get a better standard of education there than they would in New Zealand because they are using a scheme developed in the Uk.
I don't know how American schooling compares but I see this as a problem in the developed world as a whole.
In an attempt to improve everyone's quality of life it seems we are bringing about a situation of reverse-darwinism. (Thats just my opinion mind)
It's not really equality if not everyone gets it, so it's more of a lack of equal treatment.sansamour14 said:
And that's another thing about schools that bothers me, I'm such a whore for the english language, and yet I find english classes are so incredibly boring and retarded that I failed the one I had in my freshman year.
If it's anything like the UK system there is one reason the education system fails and that is politicians! They don't allow educators to educate and pander to the whims of the greater public and tabloid press.
After all teachers are maybe 5% of the electorate, parents are perhaps the other 95% I am making these stats up but the point is that politicians do not allow professionals to do what they are employed to do!
After all teachers are maybe 5% of the electorate, parents are perhaps the other 95% I am making these stats up but the point is that politicians do not allow professionals to do what they are employed to do!
i just failed my english classes in sophomore year since they were so boring but even with all the Fs from freshman and sophomore years i still got my diplomaThe Geek Lord said:
Because American high schools are doing all they can to get rid of anything that won't allow people to pass. I read an article last Spring about how in some state in the south, they are getting rid of science entirely in one school, because the black and Hispanic kids can't pass it.
I used to swear that's what they made Summer School for, but I guess not.
I used to swear that's what they made Summer School for, but I guess not.
Everything you've said applies to the UK system as well. Apart from the UK system also tries to push everybody into University when it's blatantly obvious that University isn't for everyone.
It's true, actually. America is an incredibly intolerant, racist place. Did you know we have an entire political party dedicated to perpetuating class warfare and racial tensions? If you don't think exactly the same way the Party does, it tries to blacklist you from your ethnic community. It's scary shit.sansamour14 said:
Exactly.strum4h said:
[sup](Assuming that you have the time and energy to educate and motivate yourself, and are not forced into tiring or time-consuming activities that do little to nothing for personal emotional and intellectual growth.)[/sup]
Although I did have an American friend who's mum sent him over here because she thought the schools in the part of the US where they lived were just too competitive. In terms of class presidents, heads of this and that, voting on who would be the most successful/popular whatever, and the general lack of a collaborative atmosphere.
Although that might be better preparation for American society as a whole. What do some yanks think?
ACTUALLY, at first I thought it was a clever reference to a series of best-selling books by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.strum4h said:
A very screwed outlook? I once heard a group of people from the UK insist over Xbox Live that we lost the Revolutionary War. Also, the No Child Left Behind Act only apllies to primary school, not higher education like colleges and universities.Simonccx said:
no some public schools in america do in fact teach creationism due to the school boards of the area bowing to religious parent demands who then later get mad because a respectable college wont admit them because they hated evolution and refused to teach it.
You'd be surprised. Hell, just take a look around. There are plenty of teens and adults that don't know the basic rules for speaking and writing English. Things such as "your and you're" or "there, their and they're".Rooker said:
People in high school that don't know that you use "an" instead of "a" when the word after it begins with a vowel. Some people don't know when to use "are" or "is".
English is said to be one of the hardest languages to learn. I've never had a problem with it because my English teachers made learning proper English a fun experience(Not that my English is flawless.). However, there are millions of people out there that have no idea how to use proper English.
I think you took a beautifully motivational poem and cynically dismissed it. Do all Euro's have so little confidence in individual will? The last two paragraphs blew me away. His mom said the schools were "too competitive", so she sent him to Britain??? How is that a GOOD thing for the British school system? And what does it say about anyone who finds their school "too competative" because of meaningless student politics of popularity? And the words you chose: "general lack of a collaborative atmosphere"; "American society as a whole[/i}"Danny Ocean said:
This is (or used to be) the fundamental difference between the United States and every other nation on earth. Americans would prefer to identify themselves and their institutions in terms of the individual, while everyone else would do it in terms of the collective or the State. Whenever you guys hear someone say "America is the greatest country in the world", it's because they're dumb enough to believe this is still true. The fact is, there is no country left that truly allows men to become all they can. Anything they learn, everything they earn, is just a favor from God, Society, or the State.