So what is the advantage of a console?

[ElPatron]

Affordability:
Consoles are cheaper because most people already have a TV so all that is required is the console and the games. Monitors alone cost as much as some High Def TVs. For someone who doesn't already have a computer, you need to factor that into the cost.

>My monitor is pretty damn good (PCGamer considered it one of the top choices for almost two years) and it was 180?. I dare anyone to find a TV under 180? that doesn't suck... 3~4 years ago. Even the smallest TVs *today* cost over 200?

Accesibility:
Consoles are such that anyone can buy a game for a person fairly easily, as long as they know what console it is. Not the same with PCs. The fact that people have told me "I can easily find out stuff by googling" doesn't matter, google = research. You don't need to research consoles.

>because research is a task not achievable by common mortals.

Plus, there are a lot of things that require research in consoles.

And some people just AREN'T going to research stuff. (...) They don't know how
Not good. I own a x360 and you just implied that many console owners are too slow to open google.

That's why there's so many sales on the console.

>ignoring free-to-play games

Sales =/= popularity when you have free products


Buy a box. Buy a game. Stick the game in the box. No research, no nothing.
And hooking a console up to a TV is a lot easier than putting a computer together, researching what the best cards are

Like I said millions of times, I never assembled my computers, I always paid the store to do it for me. It was cheap and I didn't want to mess with warranties.

Plus, researching what the best cards are? Go to a website and search Expensive - Cheaper. That will show you the "best" cards.

You know how I found my card? I looked at the 512MB cards in the price range I wanted, found a rebranded 9800GTX+ (which I don't know what it meant) and put it's name on google. Some website told me it was good so I added it.

The fact that you and many others know how to do it, doesn't make it easier. It still requires work and knowledge that you now apparently take for granted.

What knowledge? I don't know what 43nm architecture is. I don't calculate the MHz and the multipliers in my mind. I don't know nothing about them Wolframs and Wolfdales and bridges. I happen to know what certain parts do if you show me, because we learned that at school. But they didn't teach us how to assemble computers or how computer architecture works.

I just know that 512mb > 256mb and that 2gb > 1 gb.



My argument was not that PC retro gaming is hard, my argument is that it is not as perfect as people are presenting. It's not that easy, it's not that accesible.

Even backwards compatibility on the 360 is more accessible. I look at a wiki page, see what games work and what games don't, and buy from there. Can I play every game? No. But getting those games to work requires less effort.



It's a counter to your "argument" that "not everyone trades in used games"
Not everyone trades in and gets games for free, not everyone uses steam and gets "steam sales". It's irrelevant.

>again, point being? Not everyone uses Steam, good. That means Valve isn't trying to seize control of everything yet. Steam is a strong competitor against retail because of our stupid prices



Yeah, and Steam allows variable prices that screw over UK and European gamers by charging them more than the US consumers.

If Steam did not exist, I would import games anyway. Steam is cheaper than importing so it's even better!

Look at the people behind the argument before you buy into it.


That's kind of shooting the messenger.


It's the market economy. I said the same thing when someone complained about COD being still expensive at the game store. It's expensive because people are willing to pay for it. If a store has DNF up for 60 quid or whatever and no one's buying it then the store's stupid. Once the store buys it, the distributor should have little say in how they price it.

>Yeah, NASDAQ, fiscal, spreadsheets. I can pretend I know economy too. The prices do not drop because of consumers, otherwise people would actually buy the games instead of pirating or importing.

The prices start high because of distributors. I never said they didn't drop because of them.



Right so it's not full settings, correct?

>playing a multiplayer game
>trying to achieve full settings

Not to mention that graphics are completely worthless to my experience, I favor my framerate and my performance over graphics in multiplayer.

I remember BF2, shadows and high quality terrain were useless. Couldn't see people camping on darker places and snipers would just blend in with the grass.


I don't really care about your computer.
The point is you presented two examples at different times in your post:
1. A gamer who has a HD console without a HD TV
2. A gamer who is playing newer games on an older PC


In both cases, the person playing the game is not getting the "best graphics" yet in one case you attack the console for it and in the other case you laud the PC. One cannot have it both ways. Unless you were specifically speaking of blu ray movies, which, I don't believe you were but I could be mistaken.

No, It's because I have played 360 on TVs I simply couldn't see shit at a distance or even read what was on the screen. When I switched to the Bravia the image was chopped in 50Hz and the TV did not support 60Hz.

Not having an appropriate TV = bad. And I mean the whole experience, not just the graphics. Plus, Medium settings at 1680x1050 on Crysis beats most console games right off the bat and it's a 2007 game or whatever.



If someone's buying it for a blu-ray player specifically they're probably not a gamer.
I know numerous people who've bought the PS3 for a bluray and have never played a game on it.

>and there are millions of computers being sold that are not going to play videogames.



The point is you're trying to say your current computer is cheap, and yet you don't factor in basic start up costs.

>If a lot of people have a HDTV capable of being hooked up to a console, they have a temporary PC monitor.

Plus, a lot of people have desktops that can be scavenged for peripherals.


I can get a 32" LCD 720p TV for 200 CDN, or a 19" for 100 CDN.

>well, I can't.

 

[loc978]

I think the answer is pretty clear in the last 10 pages. PC gaming is for technically inclined people who are going to be running a powerful PC in any case (perfect for those who need something powerful enough to compile video files in a reasonable amount of time)... and consoles have the advantage of generally being less expensive (and definitely less expensive at the beginning of a console generation) per unit and requiring very little know-how to set up and use.

There is a counter-argument on the price front from people like me, though... I wouldn't have a TV if not for my roommate, and a good HDTV costs more than my PC with all of its peripherals and monitor thrown in. Even the cheapest TV you can get with an HDMI port costs about as much as a budget gaming rig with monitor.

So for people like me... I'll have the computer to run the games in any case. It's part of several of my hobbies.
For most people... they'll have the proper TV to plug a modern console into in any case, because they watch TV... the neanderthals.

(insert reference to still-relevant Yahtzee quote here)

*looks down one post and up one post*
...and my 5 year old computer can run Skyrim just fine...

 

[Signa]

Overall both systems are great it just depends on the person if they like mods or if they prefer easy access to play a game without having to download and upgrade their PC to do so.

I get that you like to get everyone to meet in a "middle ground" and all what you said was not exactly true. Due to the current stagnation of consoles you rarely need to upgrade anymore unless you want to turn on eye candy.

If you want to play the game and don't care about 1080P or anything (which consoles cannot do) then even integrated graphics will do.

In most cases you're right about that, but not everyone is entitled to great PCs for mine (despite having a good RAM and Graphics Card) is still not good enough to run most games on there like Skyrim or even a TERA Demo. In order to play those two, I need to spend $450 for upgrades, unless I can get a discount or what not.

Honestly I don't want to spend that much just to have the ability to play games period. My Xbox 360 is my friend when it comes to handling the big games. Still not saying I think my Xbox 360 is better but you actually do need to upgrade your PC even if most people now a days don't really need to. It depends what PC you have and how currently you update it to save you money.

Skyrim is not hard to run, I refuse to believe it would be a $450 upgrade.

What are your specs?

Not replying to this in anger or wanting to prove you wrong of course, just will show you why it'll be around $450 plus why I can't run Skyrim on my PC despite that most users around can have that opportunity.

I bought a graphics card for $79.99 and it's still not good enough. I did an online scan for free to check my computer's results in running systems from simple virus scanning to playing games that are in my desktop and it turns out the graphics card i'll need to run anything like Skyrim is the NVIDIA GeForce 500 Graphics Card [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/NVIDIA+-+GeForce+GTX+550+Ti+1GB+GDDR5+PCI+Express+2.0+Graphics+Card/2375089.p?id=1218323853938&skuId=2375089&st=game%20graphics%20card&cp=1&lp=9] for $199.99.

I'll also need to upgrade my RAM which means I will need the Corsair Vengeance [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Corsair+-+Vengeance+2-Pack+4GB+DDR3+DIMM+Desktop+Memory+Kit/2904596.p?id=1218361848253&skuId=2904596] or something similar to that for $69.99

Even though my 2Wire works fine and lets me do wonders online, in order to play an online game without problems or lagging out I will need a better one at least around $100 like the Zoom - DOCTSIS [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Zoom+-+DOCSIS+3.0+High-Speed+Wireless-N+Cable+Modem/Router/2847643.p?id=1218356320729&skuId=2847643&st=2wire&cp=1&lp=9] for example.

I can try to find cheaper installments and hopefully get my PC to work, but it does need a crap load of upgrades ether way and it's surely expensive. If I may ask, why is it so hard to believe I can't play Skyrim or most PC games on my computer? I did try by the way lol... made me utterly sad when it crashed on launched and kept failing me. Had to give my friend back his copy and just appreciate my Xbox 360 Skyrim.

Now you got me curious about your current hardware. I got a $50 ($70-$20 MIR) card in one of my machines that is more than enough to handle Skyrim. You don't need top-tier ram, you just need ram that works (studies have shown that you only get single-digit percent differences between cheap and expensive ram).

Upgrading your router for gaming is just unheard of. That is unless your router is absolute shit, but you said it's mostly fine. The thing is, most internet connections can't even deliver the amount of data that your grandma's network card can dish out. Your router can only go as fast at that pipeline delivers between your PC and internet, so upgrading it is just completely unnecessary.

Also, Best Buy is not the first place to look for components. That card you linked is going for half-price on Newegg with bundled software (Adobe elements, or something like that. didn't read.)

E:F,b

 

[Gearhead mk2]

As someone who plays both in equal mesure, consoles have three major advantages in my mind.

1) They're simpler. No worries about not having the right specs, trying to find good servers, making sure all you mods work, etc etc. Just pop the disk in, sit down with the controller, and away you go.

2) They're easier to control overall. I won't deny that in some cases, keyboard and mouse is superior. For instance, trying to play a RTS on console? God help you, in the vast majority of cases. But in genres that are good on both platforms, like an FPS, I personally find a control pad easier. Less twitchy and sensitive, not so many buttons.

3) The community is better. Sure, we have a lot more screaming 5-year-old shootertards, but frankly I'd rather listen to them for days on on then listen to the PC's 5-year-old screaming shootertards, who in my expirenece are not as common but many times worse. And of course, then you have those people that honestly belive in the whole "glorious PC gaming master race" thing.

 

[Signa]

Snip

Snip

Thank you guys for giving me useful feedback that saved me a lot of cash if I were to go out and buy this stuff (which I might do so now that I am more informed on what to get, thus Best Buy isn't the best place as I thought so.)

Also here is my System information, any help would be appreciated of course... I am not very good with computers and what I need to upgrade obviously.

<spoiler=System Info>

It's not a great PC but it 1024x768 (which is a terrible res, do you not work with images?) I would assume you could run Skyrim. Not well, but you should have been able to run it.

Seeing as your PC is pretty old, you may be running DDR2 RAM which means the linked RAM will not work on your PC if that is the case.

snip

Bro, your thoughts? Reckon it may be DDR2?

[Back to CF] I feel at $80 you were ripped off, badly. Can you not return the GPU to the store?

But yeah, if it were me I would wait until you get a whole new PC and do a whole new rebuild with a new monitor. Even with a new GPU, there is a good chance your CPU may hold you back, looks like a dual core to me.

EDIT It's a single core, ouch. Yeah, wait and do a whole rebuild.

Yeah, It's time to rebuild. I'm sure that PC would have been amazing back in it's day (about 5-7 years ago by my estimates), but a PC on the level of playing everything near-max could be done for about $500. I'll have to see what I can dig up from my records as an example. I "built" a PC for a co-worker about a year ago who didn't believe that an effective PC could be made that cheap. He sorta proved me right because I had to include the monitor in there, which is something I assume everyone already has.

@CF I find when building a PC, that you want to aim for a certain price/performance ratio. That ratio has a steady proportional incline up to about $1000. Going above that range, you're going to see a SHARP decline in the amount you get for what you pay. However, if you have the cash, I fully recommend aiming for that $1000 range (provided you're getting the right price for those parts) because it future-proofs your machine the longest.

Just as an example, my PC is a first-gen i7. I cannibalized one HDD and my video card from my last computer. It totaled $950 when I built it. The video card eventually died, and it was $270 for my replacement of choice. It's been over 3 years now (two with that new card), and I have no interest in upgrading my PC any more. At all (ok, I do wish for a better sound card, but that's not worth the price for my level of need). My last PCs only lasted 2-3 years because of my demands, and I ended up replacing them because I was tired of their under-performance. I don't feel like this PC is under-performing in any game I play. It's going to be another 2-3 years before I feel that way. At that point, I'm pretty sure all I'm going to need is a new video card.

 

[Rayne870]

Comfort...I have never been fully comfortable while playing pc games nor do I know how to accomplish this, as the mouse requires a flat, solid, andstable surface Keyboards are very specific in what positions they can be used in.

With a controller I can easily and comfortably play upside down on my recliner if I am so inclined.

 

[GTwander]

You can play games distributed by major Japanese publishers.

This is about the only reason, because the Japanese seem to keep their toys and tools from breeding with each other... for the most part.

 

[Joccaren]

Um, no? Sound card implies something removable, which I'm 90% certain the PS3 does not have. Maybe I'm wrong, but from my five minutes of googling, it does not appears as though there is anything separate or upgradeable about the sound output on a PS3. The console disassemblies I've seen seem to show a solid board. In any case, I've never had to even consider a "sound card" existing on my PS3 before.

Nor do I have to worry about a sound card existing in my PC. If your Console can handle audio, it has some kind of sound card to process that audio. Often these days said card is built into the Motherboard, much like graphics can be. On older PCs the sound card was often a separate entity, yes, but I haven't seen a removable one in ages, just one that's part of the motherboard.

No, I didn't. I was joking earlier, but HDMI does not equal optical cable. They are two entirely different things. Optical cables cannot bitstream, nor do they carry video.

And people say its PC gaming you have to know the technical stuff for.
Either way, semantics about words. The point still stands that you plugged something in, which is often all anyone needs to know for PC or console.

Hmm. Did I mention that PC gamers seem really sensitive about their hobbies and really have a hard time coming to terms that other people can play the same games at the same level of quality at a much lower price and effort and completely enjoy it just as much, if not more? It's the impression these threads always give me anyways. "How dare you enter into the garden of the gods with only 256 MB of RAM"!

Its more to the fact that we get annoyed when misinformation is spread to make us look bad. If I were to say that console gaming is worse because it costs $3000 to set up, you need to buy a new TV every few months for the best experience and you need technical knowledge of what goes in the back of a TV to make it work, I'm pretty sure people would be calling me out for misinformation.
I don't mind people with personal reasons for not playing on the PC, so long as they are legitimate. If all your friends play on console, fine, that's an advantage. If you live in an area with uncharacteristically high PC part prices, fine, its an advantage. You know how to use XBL and/or PSN, don't care about better graphics or anything [I.E: Won't bag the Wii about its lack of power], and don't see it being worth getting a PC, that's fine, that's an advantage.
All of these, however, are based off that person's personal situation.

When people say "You need $2000 to make a gaming rig", I'll propose one for around $300 and prove them wrong.
When people say "You need years of technical experience to make a gaming rig", I'll point out to them how easy it is - plug'n'play, only with 20 cables instead of 3.
When people tell me "You don't have to worry about compatibility", I'll argue against their laziness, and how they're able to distinguish between XBox 360 and Xbox, but not Windows 7 and Windows XP, or PS2 and PS3, but not GeForce 240 and Geforce 560.
When they say you don't have to worry about patches, I'll point out the firmware updates Sony and Microsoft send out.

The truth is that PCs can deliver a far better experience than a console for the same or cheaper price, whilst requiring little technical knowhow. I will grant you need to know a small amount more than a console - namely to hold a chip by its sides rather than its face, and how to use a screwdriver - but otherwise its simple. And hell, worst case you go up to some guy at a tech store and ask if they have a PC building service where they'll assemble it for you.

I don't mind someone having personal reasons for not liking PCs, but stating that its hard to get into PC gaming due to price and technical difficulty is just wrong IMO. The number of services you can utilize to get a cheap and easy gaming PC even without any prior knowledge is quite large, you just need to want to play games on the PC, rather than putting it out there as a challenge you hope you'll win.

 

[easternflame]

Well, the truth is simplicity. No need for install, issues are rare and issues that have to do with your hardware are close to non-existent (see Skyrim PS3 for example), however, more and more I feel like my pc is better. I can hook it to the TV and to an xbox controller and play just as well, BUT WITH MODS AND SHIT.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE WITH CONSOLES ARE STUPID. It just means that I like the PC more.
It's amazing one has to clarify.

 

[floppylobster]

It's very hard to retro game with a PC and enjoy yourself.

I love all my old consoles bring them out and play them all the time, (and no, emulation is not the same, nor does it manage to create the same nostalgic feelings as playing on the real thing). But can I bring out my old 486? No. Not only did I scrap it years ago, even if I still had it, cleaning the shit off the crappy mouse ball would drive me nuts. Nobody keeps their old PCs. PCs are cutting edge, cool and now. But consoles are collector's items.