So, what 'makes' a Metroidvania? Is it really a useful term?

[Uratoh]

On the 3-D games...I'm fine considering the Prime series and Dark Souls Metroidvanias. it USUALLY refers to 2D, but these really do 'feel' like one.

 

[Mirthen]

By your definition, Metroid Prime isn't a Metroidvania while Metroid Fusion is because Prime is 3D and Fusion is a 2D sidescroller, even though Metroid Prime's general structure has more in common with games like Metroid Zero Mission or Super Metroid that are commonly accepted as Metroidvanias.

Yep my definition states that. And there is nothing wrong with it. My definition would also include Terraria, but exclude Minecraft. (And my first thought about Terraria wasn't 'Oh look a Metroidvania')

Finding a proper definition of a term isn't easy.
In August 2006 the IAU decided on a uniformly usable definition of the term 'planet'.
Even though sience had used it before, without it having a proper definition.

And I won't state my definition is 'the one and only true definition',
but thinking about games most gamers know as Metroidvania and thinking about games that are called Metroidvania by their fans, I would state, that beeing 2D is important.

Since the whole point of a definition is to be as clear as possible, it wouldn't be good to state something like:
'most Metroidvanias are 2D-platformers'
The word 'most' can destroy the whole purpose of the definition, because exception are allowed.

And for Metroid Prime:

You are right, it has a lot stuff in it that would make it a great Metroidvania. But for me it isn't.
For me it's a 'First-Person Adventure', the term used by Nintendo to describe the game.

 

[michael87cn]

Usually its a game that's more similar to Castlevania than metroid. I actually don't really think the Metroid part is ever relevant. Castlevania has the same mappingg dungeon crawling platforming element that metroid does, and it does it so much better. So, Castlevania-like? IDK.

 

[Toxic Sniper]

By your definition, Metroid Prime isn't a Metroidvania while Metroid Fusion is because Prime is 3D and Fusion is a 2D sidescroller, even though Metroid Prime's general structure has more in common with games like Metroid Zero Mission or Super Metroid that are commonly accepted as Metroidvanias.

Yep my definition states that. And there is nothing wrong with it...

I see. It's more like first-person shooter as a definition because it refers to the objective things about a game (Portal, Metroid Prime, Halo, and Doom are all first-person shooters) rather than the overall feel of the game. The definition I was working off was more subjective, ala the definition of an role-playing game, but a definition like that is too fuzzy for this topic. I guess the conflict is similar to the "Japanese RPG is a certain type of experience vs Japanese RPG is an RPG made in Japan" definition debate.

Going back to Dark Souls, would the game be a Metroidvania if it was a 2D sidescroller? I'm just wondering if something is a Metroidvania if the barriers are intentionally locked by challenge instead of by specific power-ups?

Usually its a game that's more similar to Castlevania than metroid. I actually don't really think the Metroid part is ever relevant. Castlevania has the same mapping dungeon crawling platforming element that metroid does, and it does it so much better. So, Castlevania-like? IDK.

Super Metroid was way better than Symphony of the Night and I will argue that until my dying breath.

>:-(

In a more serious tone, Metroid did pretty much start the genre, especially considering how the original Castlevania isn't very similar to the archetypical games of the genre. While some recent Metroid games have strayed further from the genre (Or captured its spirit in a different genre, ala Metroid Prime), Metroid, Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and I would argue Metroid 2 are all great examples of Metroidvania design. The great thing about Metroidvania is exploration of a new world and the sense of personal growth as you unlock new areas, and I feel those Metroid games I listed capture that feeling just as well as the best of Castlevania (Which is also great).

 

[Mirthen]

I see. It's more like first-person shooter as a definition because it refers to the objective things about a game (Portal, Metroid Prime, Halo, and Doom are all first-person shooters) rather than the overall feel of the game.

The problem with definition by feeling is, that you can argue about the overall feel of a game. Everybody will feel something different. And as I stated: the definition is my personal interpretation of Metroidvania.
Maybe I'm a bit fixated on precision.

In a more serious tone, Metroid did pretty much start the genre, especially considering how the original Castlevania isn't very similar to the archetypical games of the genre. While some recent Metroid games have strayed further from the genre (Or captured its spirit in a different genre, ala Metroid Prime), Metroid, Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and I would argue Metroid 2 are all great examples of Metroidvania design. The great thing about Metroidvania is exploration of a new world and the sense of personal growth as you unlock new areas, and I feel those Metroid games I listed capture that feeling just as well as the best of Castlevania (Which is also great).

Damn right! Castlevania 'copied' the exploration part from the Metroid series(Super Metroid especially), and included this into their games. Most famous for this is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

As far as I know (but I'm not 100% sure) Symhony of the Night is the reason we have the word Metroidvania. Since it was a bit like a fusion between the two types of gameplay.

Both series are good, but in my opinion Metroid was a greater impact to the genre than Castlevania.
(And had/has better designers in terms of the exploration part)



To go back to the initial question of the Topic:

Reading the thread I'm coming to the conclusion, that Metroidvania can[u/] be a usefull term. But since there is no clear definition what exactly a Metroidvania is, the term can be misinterpreted.

So as a fan I'll say: use it, we will know what you mean and we will associate something with it.

As someone who likes professionalism: Try using the word with caution. Maybe use a more detailed description.