So, what the hell is wrong with Lady Gaga?
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Art is subjective. Good music is art. Thus, good music is subjective.CrashBang said:
Agreed, many pop songs are devoid of meaning. But not all pop is and generalizing like that is ignorant. To you true art must tug at ones heart strings but since art is subjective what might tugs yours might not tug others. Music doesn't always have to be deep and meaningful, but I agree that it should be at least some of the time. Music is often used as an escape not unlike videogames or TV. Sometimes its better to escape into a shallow game or tv show, or song than something that is thought provoking.
Also, what are these bands that you love that create "real"(for there is no such thing) music.
Anyway I hope that made sense.
Yeah, when I read that article my perspective changed as well. I'd never really listened to her stuff - the whole 'avoid mainstream crap' thing, but I caught a couple of her songs and they weren't anything like as bas as I though, and the videos were often pretty damn sweet.Matt_LRR said:
I'm not saying I know or care much about her showbiz persona, I dont - I know almost nothing beyond that article, and based on that I can respect her.
He stopped didn't he? Lady Gaga hasn't. And I can learn to respect her once she stops acting like a brat, stops with the nonsense and takes herself seriously as an artist. As she stands right now she isn't and I think that's destroying her.Kermi said:
She's wasting her talent, which is what I find so damned frustrating with her.
I don't care if she acts that way - the costumes and the theatrics only - on stage, but she needs to stop acting that way - spoilt brat, drugs, not taking herself seriously as an artist - off stage.
I don't see what the problem is with Lady Ga Ga, but then, part of why I like her songs compared to Ke$ha or something is that she basically made a name for herself bu wearing the clothes that fashion designers make that are very 'artistic' on the catwalks but you know will never ever be worn in real life, in real life.
It's never lupus.Matt_LRR said:
[sub]Sorry[/sub]
I'm with the Gaga supporters. She's totally mad and totally worth it. You can't deny the lady has talent, and that's a hell of a lot more than most of the charts these days.
She's trying to become ultra popular because she's somehow accepted that actual talent doesn't sell, you've got to be loud and stupid to make money.
So, she suppresses her talent and goes off acting like an idiot.
So, she suppresses her talent and goes off acting like an idiot.
I actually don't mind her music, and yea she does kind of remind of Madonna now that you mention it. My only complaint is her immature behavior recently at some sports game where she was being rude to fans. Being a public figure she really should control herself (but then again, she's human like the rest of us..)
Yet.Mr. Grey said:
Please note, I'm not disagreeing with you, at least not entirely. But Gaga has really been famous for what, five years? Less? Granted, that's about how long The Beatles lasted, at least before they had to stop endangering the public by appearing at live performances and only release studio albums.
I don't deny there was a marked evolution in the content of Lennon's music post-Beatles, and yes, he wanted to use his message to save/heal the world.
But at the end of the day, music is just another form of entertainment. While it's mostly an expression of self (the second most pure, next to dancing) it can have meaning too - to this day feel a sense of overwhelming loneliness combined with hope whenever I hear the chorus of Imagine - but ultimately it's still just an expression, and doesn't have to be propping up metameanings or lofty ideals to have artistic merit.
I will credit you for not taking my bait though. I was trying to make a point about how it's not so nice when people attack someone you idolise. Well, you can't have everything. I guess instead I got a perfectly sensible debate. I'd write more but I have to get back to work.
Perhaps I'll catch up with you during lunch.
Don't forget that period at the height of The Beatles' career where even Lennon admitted that him and McCartney were writing cheesy love songs with no meaning or depth whatsoever that then went on to be number one in the UK album charts, thus spawning the whole Beatlemania craze around the world.Kermi said:
Good times, good times.
In regard to point 4 of the OP I would like to add this:
--Ego's a key part of the music industry. Hell, 90's Britpop was built around egos, with bands like Mogwai and Oasis becoming famous for slagging off Blur, to the extent that Mogwai had official merchandise which would say on them 'Blur: are shite'. We also have Liam Gallagher from Oasis making a fashion line (because people really want to dress like Liam Gallagher) after the Gallagher Brother's feud (once again a battle of the egos) pushed Oasis to finally breaking up. And to top it off, the music industry in general also has the already mentioned Kanye West and Axl Rose, among others. As far as egos go, Lady Gaga ain't anywhere near the top.
I like her music but I'm trying to restrain the amount of music I buy anyway and she isn't at the top of my list. Given the chance I would probably buy The Fame Monster at least if not both her albums.
I'm googoo for gaga. Or gaga for gaga....or...something. I do enjoy her music, and thanks to my theater class, I learned just how much so. In fact, I'm going to see her on the 17th in St. Louis.
Talent is in the eye of the beholder. Some people see talent in John Lennon, others find it Beethoven, or Tupac, or Meshuggah. Most times it is stated that, "I listen to this song because it has so much feeling in it" or something to that aspect. Music is a very simple yet still very peculiar thing especially pertaining to it's effects on the brain. Music can change moods, conjure memories associated with certain songs. I think that music's effect on humans has been forgotten as we have seen the emergence and rise of money making, business driven bands.
I am not a believer in popularity and record sales state the talent of a musician. I also think that it is a matter of opinion and if someone comes up to me with a valid argument which explains why they hold in their mind that is band or performer is great, I will respect the way they feel. Might be because I listen to "metal", which I put into broad sense, but most of the bands I enjoy, and deem extremely talented, are bands that barely many know.
From my perspective it is curious to see mainstream bands, frequenting the bar and people in the workplace playing the radio, rise in popularity. I'm not taking anything away from Lady Gaga or any other musician for that matter, but it seems to radio and repetitive songs seem to embed itself into the mind. I don't even like these songs, yet whether it's the simplicity in the music or the amount of times it is played sometimes I have a Gaga song in my head. Maybe knowing how to create "catchy" or "dancy" tunes is a talent and can't help but think that it is an easy way out.
I am not a believer in popularity and record sales state the talent of a musician. I also think that it is a matter of opinion and if someone comes up to me with a valid argument which explains why they hold in their mind that is band or performer is great, I will respect the way they feel. Might be because I listen to "metal", which I put into broad sense, but most of the bands I enjoy, and deem extremely talented, are bands that barely many know.
From my perspective it is curious to see mainstream bands, frequenting the bar and people in the workplace playing the radio, rise in popularity. I'm not taking anything away from Lady Gaga or any other musician for that matter, but it seems to radio and repetitive songs seem to embed itself into the mind. I don't even like these songs, yet whether it's the simplicity in the music or the amount of times it is played sometimes I have a Gaga song in my head. Maybe knowing how to create "catchy" or "dancy" tunes is a talent and can't help but think that it is an easy way out.
I suppose I did end up attacking her, I guess it was my frustration with who she was and what she is now. She gave up talent for image to sell things and then she goes on to act like how she has been -- very rudely, for lack of a better polite term. To be honest I wouldn't be entirely surprised if she admits she was a Poe and then continues acting like she used to before Lady Gaga. I'd actually have a pretty good laugh if that turns out true.Kermi said:
Yet somehow it may end up like Lewis Carrol's poem about the Jabberwocky. Which was meant to show people how not to make a poem, yet becomes a way of teaching people how to make a poem like it.
True enough, music is a form of entertainment. Yet also a very powerful form, which should be taken with the greatest responsibility... granted, a lot of musicians don't wise up to this, John Lennon himself took a while, but it's a sad fact of life that something meant to be for the enjoyment of the creator and others ends up with the ability to destroy either. It's a miracle alone that Ozzy is still alive -- or apparently evolution if that study brings up valid results that prove their hypothesis that there may be a genetic reason to his survival.
I'll concede that music doesn't need meta-meanings or lofty ideals. As an aside, if they must sing about ideals I'd prefer they sing about ideals that they honestly know something about... or gave a great amount of thought to, such as "what's the negative of the side we're taking?" sort of thing. And I was a bit rash about it... her songs can be listened to - even if for the darnedest reason I prefer Eric Cartman singing Poker Face - and aren't the most horrible things I've ever heard, in fact most of them are stuck in my head. It's really how she's acting outside of the stage I take the greatest concern with. May have been I reached the boiling point of frustration with her and musicians like her, the ones that have the talent but disregard it for image and acting the spoilt brat and/or adopting a gimmick.
To me that isn't artistic integrity, to disregard who you are in order to sell your albums -- dressing up doesn't do this, I mean taking up an entirely different personality to your own outside of the stage or in your work. Then again I'll have to be honest, I don't think a lot of the things people call art is - in fact - art, but that's an entirely different thing that may only end up proving me insane.
Sorry for the long response.
