So why did someone expressing their freedom of speech become unpopular?

[cuddly_tomato]

However it is undeniably true that crime rate and unemployment has increased since Britian' began massive immigration after WWII. I am not being racist, I feel it is an issue of cultures.

In my opinion cutting of all immigration that is not of wealthy/skilled people would be a good choice. I don't know the ins and outs of the BNP but I will discuss the matter with you while trying to avoid appearing as an ignorant and hateful individual.

I think the issues surrounding immigration are vastly overstated. I honestly don't get what is up with the whole thing. Just make sure they are subject to at least the minimum wage and you instantly solve the problem of them undercutting local people competing in the job market. Other than that, I don't see any issues.

 

[Nickolai77]

However it is undeniably true that crime rate and unemployment has increased since Britian' began massive immigration after WWII. I am not being racist, I feel it is an issue of cultures.

well, um no.

Overall crime rate has been gradually falling since the 1800's with the decline of rural poverty. There was an intitial increase during the industrial revelution as urban poverty increased, and then later fell again as urban poverty declined in the late 19th century. Crime rates overall where much higher in the 1600's than they are today.

After WW2 crime rates gradually fell, petty crime and violent crime has increased in recent years, whilst non-violent crime (i.e- car theft, bank robbery, burgualry) has decreased.

Poverty causes crime, not immigration.

Btw, i'm sorry if this is a double post, i'm hoping people have replied since my last post.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Poverty causes crime, not immigration.

Yep. And poverty is caused by bad governments and greed in corporations that have become overly powerful. Immigrants, unemployed, and now sick people are all getting blamed for it. What is disturbing is that people are actually falling for this crap and voting the likes of the BNP in.

 

[Crimson Cade]

I think the issues surrounding immigration are vastly overstated. I honestly don't get what is up with the whole thing. Just make sure they are subject to at least the minimum wage and you instantly solve the problem of them undercutting local people competing in the job market. Other than that, I don't see any issues.

That is because you have not studied psychology or history in depth. Almost any recognized psychological science will tell you that having people of very different ethnicity, ideology and/or class living in close proximity will lead to tensions. In the majority of races and creeds out there is a complex identity, which often is inherently intolerant to opposing ideals. If this mix of people then need to sustain themselves on an insufficient supply of resources, these tensions will flare up.

Edit:

Nicolai: After WW2, the western world lived in a bubble of financial growth, which now is breaking. Most of the western world as we know it today would never be even REMOTELY as rich, had it not been for the second world war. Rebuilding after such a massive was meant lots of new jobs, lots of new enterprise, and tons upon tons of money generated from this growth. Our reliance on this unnatural growth is part of the reason why we have a financial crisis now. And with financial crises comes crime.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I think the issues surrounding immigration are vastly overstated. I honestly don't get what is up with the whole thing. Just make sure they are subject to at least the minimum wage and you instantly solve the problem of them undercutting local people competing in the job market. Other than that, I don't see any issues.

That is because you have not studied psychology or history in depth. Almost any recognized psychological science will tell you that having people of very different ethnicity, ideology and/or class living in close proximity will lead to tensions. In the majority of races and creeds out there is a complex identity, which often is inherently intolerant to opposing ideals. If this mix of people then need to sustain themselves on an insufficient supply of resources, these tensions will flare up.

Yes, I am aware of that. This is why we have anti discrimination laws and such things. People should abide by that law, rather than complain that it exists and then vote for the BNP in the hope of getting it changed to allow them to victimize their neighbours on the account of them having a different skin hue.

As for the resources, well give them some? Give people enough to maintain a decent standard of living and these kinds of tensions will diminish. It is easy to be pissed off and violent when you are hungry and feel you have nothing to lose. But when your life is reasonably comfortable, and you know where your next meal is coming from, it is not something that you would jeopardize for the sake of making people think you were a Nazi.

 

[SmartIdiot]

Well if you're a nazi holocaust denier who's goal at the end of the day is to oppress other people then you don't deserve your freedom of expression. That is the case with the BNP. I've heard so many people bitching about how it wasn't fair on Nick Griffin. Fuck off, you think he'd be fair on you if you were black/muslim/chinese? No. That's the blunt truth of it. Also, no one wants to ask him questions because, let's face it, if you take the BNP seriously you're missing a few chromosomes.

 

[Booze Zombie]

A lot of people are, in their own insane way, for "free speech" but against "hate speech" without understanding that if unpopular speech is restricted you have no free speech.

That aside, I have very serious doubts as to if the BNP really is "racist." I've been called a racist before based upon the illegal immigration issue here in America and I have to say that the word is thrown around far too much. It means almost nothing and only serves to de-legitimize actual instances of racism that should be shown the light of day.

So, their leader quoted as saying that Hitler's book is his "bible" and that "black people walk like monkeys" are completly disregarded by you?

Not to mention a BNP member being recorded saying all he wants to do is "shoot pakis"...

The BNP is a greater evil than illegal immigrants could ever be.

 

[Crimson Cade]

Well if you're a nazi holocaust denier who's goal at the end of the day is to oppress other people then you don't deserve your freedom of expression. That is the case with the BNP. I've heard so many people bitching about how it wasn't fair on Nick Griffin. Fuck off, you think he'd be fair on you if you were black/muslim/chinese? No. That's the blunt truth of it. Also, no one wants to ask him questions because, let's face it, if you take the BNP seriously you're missing a few chromosomes.

News and news-related mass media SHOULD be enforced to follow a fairness/equal coverage doctrine. I can't condemn FOX news for being right wing retards and then say that THIS is OK, since I think he is a major douche. News is supposed to be factual and informative. Not televised flame-wars. But, it seems the show in question strives to be just that, so... *shrug*

 

[Agema]

I think the issues surrounding immigration are vastly overstated. I honestly don't get what is up with the whole thing. Just make sure they are subject to at least the minimum wage and you instantly solve the problem of them undercutting local people competing in the job market. Other than that, I don't see any issues.

That is because you have not studied psychology or history in depth. Almost any recognized psychological science will tell you that having people of very different ethnicity, ideology and/or class living in close proximity will lead to tensions. In the majority of races and creeds out there is a complex identity, which often is inherently intolerant to opposing ideals. If this mix of people then need to sustain themselves on an insufficient supply of resources, these tensions will flare up.

Whilst differing cultures can cause tension, they are not the primary issue. The main problems are things like unemployment and poverty.

Put it this way, a call of "British jobs for British workers" falls on deaf ears when almost everyone has a job. Similarly, other major causes of outrage are things like the (erroneous) perception that immigrants get prioritised for various social services such as council housing. Again, this is because people who are primarily poor see them as competition for the state's welfare resources, and the middle classes are hoodwinked into thinking immigrants come for the welfare system and their taxes rather than to work.

You see this happen again and again in many cultures throughout history. When things start going badly, people who are losing out are easily incited to blame others. As the Byzantine empire decayed, they attacked the Italians in Constantinople; Hitler exploited anti-Semitism to scapegoat the Jews; as the Ottoman Empire collapsed, they turned on the Armenians. It's not just race, religion and culture either. It needs to be seen in the same context as class conflict. In those cases, it's tension between the relatively rich and relatively poor that is exploited, but the root problem is the same - some people are seriously unhappy about their situation and their lives, and will listen to people offering to sort it out.

 

[VanityGirl]

Wow... just wow.

You want to know why it can be unpopular to speak your mind?

Because there's a difference with expressing your opinion and being a general dick to someone. Yeah, I said it. If I call Barak Obama a terrorist and get hate mail for it, well then it's my own damn fault for being a douche. I can try to hide behind the veil of "oh I was just using my freedom of speech", but that won't stop people from getting upset.
Using your freedom to speech is a good thing, but don't be a dick to people. If you've got a problem, fine state it in a better way than just saying "LOLZ, UR A DICK", because that's a quick way to get backlash. Instead say, "I don't agree with the things you say."

*sigh*
I hate when people throw around The Freedom Of Speech when they say something intentially offensive or stupid.

 

[Seanchaidh]

So why did someone expressing their freedom of speech become unpopular?

Unpopularity is the proper social reaction to people saying stupid shit with their freedom of speech. Showing our disapproval is a fundamental part of democracy and just as much a matter of freedom of speech as the unpopular view being expressed.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Wow... just wow.

You want to know why it can be unpopular to speak your mind?

Because there's a difference with expressing your opinion and being a general dick to someone. Yeah, I said it. If I call Barak Obama a terrorist and get hate mail for it, well then it's my own damn fault for being a douche. I can try to hide behind the veil of "oh I was just using my freedom of speech", but that won't stop people from getting upset.
Using your freedom to speech is a good thing, but don't be a dick to people. If you've got a problem, fine state it in a better way than just saying "LOLZ, UR A DICK", because that's a quick way to get backlash. Instead say, "I don't agree with the things you say."

*sigh*
I hate when people throw around The Freedom Of Speech when they say something intentially offensive or stupid.

You are wise far beyond your years.

I only wish a lot of other people took this viewpoint.

 

[Ilovechocolatemilk]

Yeah, but didn't Nick Griffin also deny that the Holocaust ever happend?

There's freedom of speech and there's just plain ignorance.

Wow, this Nick Griffin guy is kind of a douchebag. It calls to mind the term "doublespeak" from the book 1984, where the ruling body uses words like "freedom" to describe the exact opposite.

 

[rokkolpo]

Because people are idiots that listen to depressed housewives that have nothing better to do then ***** about this and that!

once again i,m agreeing to the first poste.

for it is always right.

 

[redsoxfantom]

Everyone says that the problem with a democracy is that any idiot gets their chance at the microphone. Few people add the proper ending: "but listening to said idiots is entirely voluntary."

 

[Mathurin]

I now more fully remember my arguments(I enjoy playing devil's advocate, sue me) from previous arguments about the BNP. The BNP wants to preserve the British heritage and culture. They like their culture. They like their heritage. They see it as being destroyed by certain forms of immigration and they don't want it to be taken from them. So, because a group of people want to hold onto their heritage they're suddenly out to destroy all other cultures and peoples? Do you have to hate another culture to want to preserve yours? Are you a racist for wanting to preserve your heritage?

This same thing happens in America. Our immigration laws reflect a desire to keep this countries culture and heritage intact. It doesn't mean we hate others, it means we want to preserve ours. I see no racism there.

Yeah, thats the amusing part, whenever an immigrant or a predominantly non-white nation states "we want to preserve our culture" or starts some kind of cultural preservation program, the hippies jump up and down with joy. They also talk a great deal about foreign nations cultures being destroyed by technology or western business, etc.
But the moment a predominantly white group says anything about preserving their culture, or about immigrants or other nations messing up their own national culture they are always called racist.
It seems that only white people can be racist in some peoples eyes.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I now more fully remember my arguments(I enjoy playing devil's advocate, sue me) from previous arguments about the BNP. The BNP wants to preserve the British heritage and culture. They like their culture. They like their heritage. They see it as being destroyed by certain forms of immigration and they don't want it to be taken from them. So, because a group of people want to hold onto their heritage they're suddenly out to destroy all other cultures and peoples? Do you have to hate another culture to want to preserve yours? Are you a racist for wanting to preserve your heritage?

This same thing happens in America. Our immigration laws reflect a desire to keep this countries culture and heritage intact. It doesn't mean we hate others, it means we want to preserve ours. I see no racism there.

Yeah, thats the amusing part, whenever an immigrant or a predominantly non-white nation states "we want to preserve our culture" or starts some kind of cultural preservation program, the hippies jump up and down with joy. They also talk a great deal about foreign nations cultures being destroyed by technology or western business, etc.
But the moment a predominantly white group says anything about preserving their culture, or about immigrants or other nations messing up their own national culture they are always called racist.
It seems that only white people can be racist in some peoples eyes.

That's just silly. We shouldn't expect people who come here to all start wearing bowler hats and wave the Union Jack around, which is what the right-wing tabloids are getting at. There isn't a need to say anything about preserving white culture, because it isn't under any kind of threat, especially not from immigrants (which we know to really mean "Islamic" immigrants).

So yeah, trying to blame things on immigrants for merely being different is pretty racist.

 

[Anarchy In Detroit]

Immigration sucks but Fascists are worse. HANG EM ALL!