So why did someone expressing their freedom of speech become unpopular?

[londelen]

Most people are brought up to believe a certain way, and those that question their belief have the potential to mess everything up for them in the social hierarchy, So they have to stop people from believing any other way than they do.

 

[Grand_Pamplemousse]

So... heres my question. If the BNP stood for anything else they would not get lynched like they were, so why did freedom of speech become unpopular? (even in this case of 'racism')

Freedom of speech works two ways. He is free to go on Question time, everyone else is free to ask for him not to, call him out on everything he says and all the rest.

That's the nature of free speech, end of.

Mmm. Fair play thar.

Yeah, but didn't Nick Griffin also deny that the Holocaust ever happend?

There's freedom of speech and there's just plain ignorance.

Aren't we allowed to believe whatever the hell we like? Come on, religion isn't too different.

That aside, I have very serious doubts as to if the BNP really is "racist."

A party that only allows white members and calls for all non-white people to be expelled from the UK?

It's in their manifesto, anyone who isn't 'ethnically British', as in white and able to trace their ancestry as purely British for X generations, is not a full citizen. They don't get equal employment, health care, benefits, tax and and bunch of other stuff. A large number of people lose their right to live and work in the UK, even though they were born here.

You could be born in Brixton, your dad could be from Brixton, so could your mum, but if you ain't white you're shit out of luck. At least read up on them a little before saying something like that.

There is nothing in their party policy that says non-white people have to leave the country. Only NON-BRITISH white people. Essentially, you could be black and have alot of generations of british people in your heritage and not have to leave.

 

[Wadders]

That aside, I have very serious doubts as to if the BNP really is "racist."

You do?

"BNP Constitution 9th Edition". British National Party. http://bnp.org.uk/Constitution%209th%20Ed%20Sep%202005.pdf. Retrieved 9 June 2009. "The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ?racial group? this being ?Indigenous Caucasian? and defined ?ethnic groups? emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALLER 1062, HL."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party#cite_note-whiteonly-12

I see your definition of the BNP with the definition of racism.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Not allowing another group based upon race does not mean that group is inherently racist. It means they're segregated.

And why do they want to be segregated? Because they are racist.

The Jews won't leave anyone into their religion, those that make them racist?

What you just said made no sense...

And why do they want to be segregated? Because they are racist.

But yeah, the BNP oughtn't to be stopped from doing things like this if they want to (even though it was a blatant effort to make them look stupid on nationwide tv) and similarly, people should be able to protest against them and ask for them to stop. That's how free speech works. They're assholes, but they have as much right to being an asshole as everyone else.

So if a person wants an all male or all female club they're sexist? Or maybe it's because they only want a specific group to be there. It doesn't mean they're against any other group it means they want to associate with a specific group.

Ok, let me clarify:

They only want to mix and associate with white "native" English people, and for what reason would this be? I can think of no area or circumstance in which white English people are different from black or Asian people (who may or may not be English) other than in their skin colour.

Your example of all male or all female clubs doesn't really work, because men and woman are different, and have different interests, therefore different clubs make sense. Not letting people into your club or political party because of the colour of their skin does not make sense. It is in fact racist.

Why am I even telling you this, its blatantly obvious.

 

[Outlaw Torn]

It's because apparently everyone is entitled to their opinion unless the majority of the public don't agree. And discrimination is a bad thing except against people who are largely believed to be racist.

I don't really care for politics, so I don't really give a monkeys about BNP policies. I just find it infinitely hilarious that so many people hate them to the degree that they are lowering themselves to the same level they regard the BNP to be on.

Afterall, if everyone is allowed to have their own beliefs, views, opinions etc. surely racists, sexists and many other-ists should be allowed to as well?

 

[Zombie_Fish]

Political snip

What I find very entertaining about that is that, by law, they can't deny anyone access to the BNP based on race, so if a chinese man wants to join, they can't stop him from joining.

On topic, people don't want free speech. They want 'free speech' for people who agree with their own opinions. This is why Nick Griffin got booed on Question Time, his opinions differentiated from those of the people who are in support of human rights etc. and because of this, people will say that he should burn in hell because of his own opinions and will protest saying that his racist opinions shouldn't be allowed. The hypocrisy being that by saying so, they are wanting to deny someone the human rights they have spent so long trying to enforce. This is why I simply let the BNP say what they want to say; at worst, people can argue with them when it comes to being wrong about what they say.

 

[Woodsey]

I can't help but notice you don't know how to use quotes. After all, you've put racism in quotes as if Griffin wasn't racist?

You know, Nick Griffin; supporter of the KKK, Nazi sympathiser, Holocaust denier and general racist c*nt?

OT: Besides, why does a racist dip shit deserve freedom of speech? I realise the irony in that question, but still.

Because the declaration of human rights applies to EVERYONE.

Ha, only when it suits people.

The phrase 'Freedom of Speech' is thrown around far too much, with no one seeming to accept it doesn't actually exist.

Sure, its nearly there. But its a crime, for example, to deny the Holocaust (something I'd never do) or to spurt out racist insults (again, nothing I'd do). Which, incidentally, is exactly what Mr. Griffin does do.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

That aside, I have very serious doubts as to if the BNP really is "racist."

A party that only allows white members and calls for all non-white people to be expelled from the UK?

It's in their manifesto, anyone who isn't 'ethnically British', as in white and able to trace their ancestry as purely British for X generations, is not a full citizen. They don't get equal employment, health care, benefits, tax and and bunch of other stuff. A large number of people lose their right to live and work in the UK, even though they were born here.

You could be born in Brixton, your dad could be from Brixton, so could your mum, but if you ain't white you're shit out of luck. At least read up on them a little before saying something like that.

I have read up on them and I've found that most things said about them are flat out untruths. This doesn't mean I support them, it means I feel they've been largely mischaracterized.

In October 1990, The British National Party was described by the European Parliament's committee on racism and xenophobia as an "openly Nazi party... whose leadership have serious criminal convictions".

Asked whether this was accurate, Edmonds replied that people such as German stormtroopers were "fine, brave men who fought the whole world for five years".

When asked if the BNP was racist, Edmonds said, "We are 100 per cent racist, yes".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/roots/1984.stm

Also, they're nationalists, what do you expect? They want their nation for them, not for immigrants.

Do they? Have you found any instances where they say they are opposed to immigration of white foreigners? Do you think they would object to a white Scandinavian or German immigrating to England?

Edit:

http://riverscrap.typepad.com/home/2009/06/bnp-mission-statement-praises-immigration.html

Okay, more links. Let's go through it.

20 years ago, the BNP was called racist and all sorts of other bad names and this "Edmonds" fellow agreed. Unfortunately, they didn't give any extra information on who s/he is so I was incapable of finding more. I'm not about to google "Edmonds" and hope for the best. Just seems a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. Who is Edmonds?

Second thing said they're very pro multiculturalism. So what's the problem?

I now more fully remember my arguments(I enjoy playing devil's advocate, sue me) from previous arguments about the BNP. The BNP wants to preserve the British heritage and culture. They like their culture. They like their heritage. They see it as being destroyed by certain forms of immigration and they don't want it to be taken from them. So, because a group of people want to hold onto their heritage they're suddenly out to destroy all other cultures and peoples? Do you have to hate another culture to want to preserve yours? Are you a racist for wanting to preserve your heritage?

This same thing happens in America. Our immigration laws reflect a desire to keep this countries culture and heritage intact. It doesn't mean we hate others, it means we want to preserve ours. I see no racism there.

 

[Woodsey]

Political snip

What I find very entertaining about that is that, by law, they can't deny anyone access to the BNP based on race, so if a chinese man wants to join, they can't stop him from joining.

I find it hard to believe they were very reluctant to change their rules on the matter, and yet still people deny they're racist.

It only takes a quick youtube search to find videos of the Griffmeister giving speeches to members of the KKK on how they can get people to join the BNP.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, but didn't Nick Griffin also deny that the Holocaust ever happend?

There's freedom of speech and there's just plain ignorance.

Aren't we allowed to believe whatever the hell we like? Come on, religion isn't too different.

So you're compairing "religion" to "denying the Holocaust"?

I'm Christain myself, but that doesn't mean I deny the theory of evolution or the Spanish inquisition. Denying the Holocaust is like denying the Hiroshima bomb or the Vietnam war. If you "agree" with what happend in the Holocaust, okay. But just stone cold refusing to believe it is f*cking childish.

I always find it weird that nazi sympathisers deny the holocaust. Shouldn't they be glad that it happend and use it as there personel anthem?

 

[cuddly_tomato]

And why do they want to be segregated? Because they are racist.

But yeah, the BNP oughtn't to be stopped from doing things like this if they want to (even though it was a blatant effort to make them look stupid on nationwide tv) and similarly, people should be able to protest against them and ask for them to stop. That's how free speech works. They're assholes, but they have as much right to being an asshole as everyone else.

The thing is Nick Griffin is very anti free speech while using it to further his agenda of racist bullshit.

Yeah, but didn't Nick Griffin also deny that the Holocaust ever happend?

There's freedom of speech and there's just plain ignorance.

Aren't we allowed to believe whatever the hell we like? Come on, religion isn't too different.

I can't believe I just read that.

 

[Wadders]

And why do they want to be segregated? Because they are racist.

But yeah, the BNP oughtn't to be stopped from doing things like this if they want to (even though it was a blatant effort to make them look stupid on nationwide tv) and similarly, people should be able to protest against them and ask for them to stop. That's how free speech works. They're assholes, but they have as much right to being an asshole as everyone else.

The thing is Nick Griffin is very anti free speech while using it to further his agenda of racist bullshit.

Yeah, but didn't Nick Griffin also deny that the Holocaust ever happend?

There's freedom of speech and there's just plain ignorance.

Aren't we allowed to believe whatever the hell we like? Come on, religion isn't too different.

I can't believe I just read that.

Yeah, I know him and his party are cocks, but if we limit their right of free speech, doesn't that make us as bad as him?

 

[cobra_ky]

Spoiler: snip

That aside, I have very serious doubts as to if the BNP really is "racist."

You do?

"BNP Constitution 9th Edition". British National Party. http://bnp.org.uk/Constitution%209th%20Ed%20Sep%202005.pdf. Retrieved 9 June 2009. "The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ?racial group? this being ?Indigenous Caucasian? and defined ?ethnic groups? emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALLER 1062, HL."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party#cite_note-whiteonly-12

I see your definition of the BNP with the definition of racism.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Not allowing another group based upon race does not mean that group is inherently racist. It means they're segregated.

And why do they want to be segregated? Because they are racist.

The Jews won't leave anyone into their religion, those that make them racist?

No form of Judaism I know of would ever discriminate on the basis of race. there are Jewish communities of many races, from all over the world.

Most Jewish communities would allow anyone who demonstrated sufficient belief in the tenets of Judaism to convert. Most political parties allow anyone who shares their ideological beliefs to join. what the BNP is doing is something else entirely.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

And why do they want to be segregated? Because they are racist.

But yeah, the BNP oughtn't to be stopped from doing things like this if they want to (even though it was a blatant effort to make them look stupid on nationwide tv) and similarly, people should be able to protest against them and ask for them to stop. That's how free speech works. They're assholes, but they have as much right to being an asshole as everyone else.

The thing is Nick Griffin is very anti free speech while using it to further his agenda of racist bullshit.

Yeah, but didn't Nick Griffin also deny that the Holocaust ever happend?

There's freedom of speech and there's just plain ignorance.

Aren't we allowed to believe whatever the hell we like? Come on, religion isn't too different.

I can't believe I just read that.

Yeah, I know him and his party are cocks, but if we limit their right of free speech, doesn't that make us as bad as him?

I wouldn't say it makes us as bad, but I still wouldn't advocate shutting him up. He should have the right to say whatever he wishes within the auspices of the law. And legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus, as our ancestors might say. When he goes too far (as he did in his holocaust denial) he should really have to answer for it.