So...why doesn't EA just make KOTOR 3 already?

[Ishal]

Right now, I'm far more interested in Obsidian's idea for a new RPG set between the two trilogies. If they can bring the same level of writing they brought to KOTOR 2, that could be something worth getting excited for.

Much as I am inclined to agree with you on the potential of Obsidian's new RPG set between the two trilogies I rather doubt they'd be able to pull off something in the same league as KOTOR 2. Chris Avellone wrote the story of KOTOR 2 and I think he left Obsidian, but he might still be a consultant for them, I'm not entirely sure, but I know he's on project eternity now. Without him I doubt they'd be able to pull it off, unless his badassery rubbed off on the other writers there.

Also, prepare to laugh

Spoiler

It was rumored that George Lucas was a ghost writer for a chunk of KOTOR 2's story. Yea... I don't buy it, not for a second.

Overall I thought Tortanic was average strictly in terms of its story. I played all the Sith Empire character plots and I must say the Imperial Agent's story, particularly the last part, was pretty darn good. But yeah, Revan (the book) was pretty bad, in the game they made Revan's demise ambiguous so I'm pretty sure they would have brought him back eventually, same way they planned to do it with Malgus. The villains in TOR were subpar, there was a lot of potential there and it was just squandered, largely due to it being an MMO in my opinion.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Thing is, it's not even EA's call, it's LucasArts, who is now owned by Disney.

Disney's been ramping up their interactive digital media department, so chances are they'd do it in-house instead.

and thread = solved.

yea, Disney owns all things Star Wars now, and I doubt they will want anything violent to be attributed to them, so it is very unlikely we will see any good Star Wars games in the near future.

*looks at avengers: earth's mightiest heroes cartoon*

you sure about that? that is one of my favorite cartoons as of recent, fully endorsed by disney after they bought marvel..

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I just bought KoTOR the other day, and I am having a ton of fun playing it. I am seeing the parallels to the original saga as well as Mass Effect 1's story but the story remains engaging. The only downside is the absurdly clunky combat, Im also not a big fan of dice rolls, but I can deal with it. Over all it is a well put together game that actually allows you to roleplay if you feel like it, such a novel idea to include in an RPG. KoTOR 2 also seems to be praised by the star wars community. So why isn't KoTOR 3 being made?

Lets just ignore the blunder of TOR and just move on. It would be in EA's own best interests to produce the game. It is one of their last remaining franchises that has remained untainted, fans are anticipating this game. It would be the perfect opportunity for EA to restore themselves in the eyes of the gaming community. The game's structure and pacing has been top notch so far. It puts other modern games to shame. As long as they stick with the core formula of the original games I'm sure that the game would be a huge success. Is there any good reason as to why EA doesn't move ahead with a new KoTOR game?

Apart from the fact that SWTOR's mere existence makes any plot connection between KOTOR 1&2 and a hypothetical third entry very difficult, I'm not sure it would be EA's decision to make. The license is owned by LucasArts, which is owned by Disney, which is large enough to make its own decisions regarding development and publishing. EA can't exactly strongarm Disney.

I recenty watched a clip of TOR that featured Revan and HK-47...

At what point did they decide Revan was a bland white guy? Did I miswatch it? Are there options to change it? Or did they just drink stupid? Would it have been so hard to keep the mask on and the voice distorted, thereby letting every gamer who ever played KOTOR impart their own image and experience onto him/her?

Canonically (in novels and comics) Revan is male and the Exile is female. And named Meetra Surik.

I agree it would have been smarter to keep the mask on, but Revan being a white dude wasn't Bioware's decision.

Yeah... they kinda already shat on that one. When people were asking for a KOTOR 3 instead of/as well as TOR, Bioware rather arrogantly said that TOR was going to be KOTOR 3,4,4 and 6 all rolled into one.

I don't know if that was arrogance. An MMO is designed to be long-lasting. They were probably saying that they had four games worth of plot arcs to put into SWTOR.

The problem is, they resolved the main threads from the first two games. Sure, they did so in an utterly laughable, atrociously written way, but what's done is done. Have you read the Revan novel? As terrible a novel as it is, they ended things pretty decisively there. They can't exactly turn around now and go:

Spoiler

"Whoops, turns out that the Exile wasn't murdered in the back in the most painfully written last-minute twist ever, rendering the entire set up of the ending of KOTOR II, and the quest into the uncharted realms, entirely meaningless. Turns out Revan wasn't a complete idiot, the True Sith were Saturday Morning cartoon villains, and all the supporting characters actually got some closer."

That horse has bolted. Bioware/EA are hardly going to develop a KOTOR 3 and say "Yeah, that stuff that happened in TOR? Never actually happened." Much as I'd like that to be the case, it's not going to happen. Any chance of KOTOR 3 died a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away[/i].

That's actually less of a problem than you make it out to be. KOTOR and KOTOR 2 didn't share a protagonist, nor did they share most of their story. Revan was referenced in KOTOR 2, but he didn't have an impact on the plot, which concerned a bunch of renegade Sith Lords and an exiled Jedi. It helps that the two games were written by totally different developers.

Really, they could make a KOTOR 3 that has zero plot connection to Revan or the Exile, and it would be in keeping with the trends of the series (which was called Knights of the Old Republic, not "The Adventures of Revan") and coherent with the eventual fates of Revan and the Exile as established by the novel tie-in and SWTOR's canon.

Of course, the fanboys would kick up an unbelievable shitstorm if EA released a KOTOR 3 that didn't have Revan or the Exile in it, even if it was in line with the previous two entries. Actually, I don't think EA should release a KOTOR 3, just because it would be impossible for them to look good while doing it. It's such a eulogised property that any changes - any updates to the mechanics, any flaw in the writing, any failure to pay dues to the other entries in the series - would be seen as heresy.

EA's so widely hated at the moment that I don't think any KOTOR title they could produce, no matter how good, would actually translate into a good response from the title's fanbase. And Bioware has been the internet's punching bag ever since DAII and ME3. If I were them I'd focus on keeping SWTOR afloat rather than trying to please the unpleasable.

 

[Bat Vader]

I'd rather have Jade Empire 2 to be honest. I've had enough of Star Wars.

I agree, Jade Empire II would be nice to see. If they do make it I would like to see it set a few centuries after Jade Empire. That or make it about Zin Bu and how he deals with paperwork.

I still believe that TOR should have been a single player game. Releasing a single player game that big with that much content would have been awesome. I think TOR is fun and I love it but I hope that one day they will patch it and make it a single player game when they decide to turn the servers off. KOTOR 3 would nice to see too. Disney will pry never allow it to happen though.

 

[Phuctifyno]

Canonically (in novels and comics) Revan is male and the Exile is female. And named Meetra Surik.

I agree it would have been smarter to keep the mask on, but Revan being a white dude wasn't Bioware's decision.

Yeah, I figured as much. It just seemed like allowing the player have input in the canon was a major likable trait of the characters, and I think any iteration of them (comic, novel, or game) should have respected that and maintained the ambiguous approach (especially since it isn't particularly difficult to write). A big problem with nerd-fan-service (imo, the biggest problem) is the temptation to answer every single trivial question. From an artistic standpoint, I think it would have been more worthwhile to leave those characters mysterious, allowing players to fill in the blanks with their favorite game experiences, and even non-players to fill in the blanks with...

Spoiler: what's that word?

Of course, the fanboys would kick up an unbelievable shitstorm if EA released a KOTOR 3 that didn't have Revan or the Exile in it, even if it was in line with the previous two entries. Actually, I don't think EA should release a KOTOR 3, just because it would be impossible for them to look good while doing it. It's such a eulogised property that any changes - any updates to the mechanics, any flaw in the writing, any failure to pay dues to the other entries in the series - would be seen as heresy.

So basically, don't do it unless it's done absolutely perfectly. Agreed. I bet there's somebody out there who could, would, and should, just not anybody currently holding the property. Poop.

 

[Terrible Opinions]

Right now, I'm far more interested in Obsidian's idea for a new RPG set between the two trilogies. If they can bring the same level of writing they brought to KOTOR 2, that could be something worth getting excited for.

Much as I am inclined to agree with you on the potential of Obsidian's new RPG set between the two trilogies I rather doubt they'd be able to pull off something in the same league as KOTOR 2. Chris Avellone wrote the story of KOTOR 2 and I think he left Obsidian, but he might still be a consultant for them, I'm not entirely sure, but I know he's on project eternity now. Without him I doubt they'd be able to pull it off, unless his badassery rubbed off on the other writers there.

Avellone still works for Obsidian. Project Eternity is an Obsidian game. They did suffer layoffs some time back, and they are missing some really good writers from their past like Gonzalez and Ziets, but Avellone is very much still there.

EDIT: He did pitch in on inXile's Wasteland 2 a little while back, so maybe that's the source of your confusion?

 

[Ishal]

Right now, I'm far more interested in Obsidian's idea for a new RPG set between the two trilogies. If they can bring the same level of writing they brought to KOTOR 2, that could be something worth getting excited for.

Much as I am inclined to agree with you on the potential of Obsidian's new RPG set between the two trilogies I rather doubt they'd be able to pull off something in the same league as KOTOR 2. Chris Avellone wrote the story of KOTOR 2 and I think he left Obsidian, but he might still be a consultant for them, I'm not entirely sure, but I know he's on project eternity now. Without him I doubt they'd be able to pull it off, unless his badassery rubbed off on the other writers there.

Avellone still works for Obsidian. Project Eternity is an Obsidian game. They did suffer layoffs some time back, and they are missing some of really good writers from their past like Gonzalez and Ziets, but Avellone is very much still there.

Ahh thank you for correcting that. For some reason I thought Project Eternity was something else. I redact that statement about the new Star Wars RPG, they could very well do something nice with it.

 

[TheRookie8]

I'm optimistic.

 

[Verzin]

EA make KOTOR III?

no please. Please god no. not EA.

Disney owns the rights now. Hopefully they'll licence it to obsidian and they can just make another great RPG with its own plot. KOTOR I and II plot lines were resolved (in a dissapointing fassion) in TOR.

I just want a HUGE RPG set in the tabletop star wars universe. A RPG with a HUGE FRIGGIN universe with HUGE FRIGGIN worlds to explore. WITH HUGE awesome dialogue. one that has super interesting companions and tons of kreia quality dramatic dialogue.


Is this to much to ask?

no EA. Fuck them. No more 'RPGs' from them plz. no more. they don't seem to understand what good RPGs are.

 

[BrotherRool]

Of course, the fanboys would kick up an unbelievable shitstorm if EA released a KOTOR 3 that didn't have Revan or the Exile in it,

And I'd definitely kick up a fuss if they dared to release a KotoR 3 with an Exile in it. It's bad enough what they've done in TOR without seeing characters I know re-Biowareised. It'd be bad enough to see them write T3 again (that's in TOR too isn't it ) without them touching a character they'd never had in the first place.

So I'm totally on board with the idea that they shouldn't do it. Do something new with a new IP.

I still believe that TOR should have been a single player game. Releasing a single player game that big with that much content would have been awesome. I think TOR is fun and I love it but I hope that one day they will patch it and make it a single player game when they decide to turn the servers off. KOTOR 3 would nice to see too. Disney will pry never allow it to happen though.

I sort of disagree. If they patch single player at least it will solve the problem of other people (which shows you how uncreatively they designed TOR, that in their MMO, people are one of the most harmful things to the setting and story. I can't believe they chose to go for a 'chosen one' plot)

And the big problem with TOR is that it would be absolutely unacceptable if packaged as a single player game. It would have been absolutely slammed, they made an MMO and gave it Star Wars flavour rather than make a Star Wars game. It shows absolutely everywhere, as I mentioned up thread, when your jedi consular is buying force powers from a skill trainer, things have gone wrong in that games design. There is very little in the actual gameplay that feels Star Wars like. Even force powers feel identical to generic abilities.

Heck, they don't even really do blaster bolt deflection properly. And that's iconic.

And no-one is going to accept a game full of 'kill X Y's' these days in a single player game. Or giant green glowy walls telling you you're the wrong class. etc

TOR really isn't a bad game, in fact I was surprised by just how solid it is. The voice overs really help the questing, but it's very much an MMO and if you changed the names it would fit any fantasy/sci-fi setting equally well. It doesn't have the tightness of a singleplayer game nor the feel of being designed from the ground up for the setting.


(Also if they made a game that large and sold it singleplayer, it would have lost them a lot of money. I think costs were above $200 million? If it cost no money to make a disc, and they paid no money to the shop owners and no money to the console owners, they'd still need to sell over 3 million copies before they even break even. With all that extra stuff we're talking about selling 9 million copies to make $1 profit sort of thing)

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

There was an article on this site recently that said Obsidian were making a pitch for just such a game, set in a different era of TOR so as to not interfere with SWTOR or the previous KotOR. Or was it set between Episodes III and IV? I forget.

Anyway, I'd give anything for a next-gen (because fuck current gen and its 8 year old hardware) KotOR game, but I don't think it will happen. Firstly, it's not EA, it's LucasArts (aka Disney) who own the rights to the franchise. Secondly, it will suck. If EA make it, it will not be a d20 RPG with Star Wars goodness, it will be a third-person action game with dull characters, bland/token story and QTEs up the wahoo. Unless CD Project or Obsidian announced it, I doubt I'd buy it.

It's a weird situation tho. KotOR2 was flawed, but still one of the most enjoyable and (re)playable RPGs of the last generation. Imagine if Obsidian had been allowed by LucasArts to finish and polish it properly, instead of shipping a 3/4 done Beta in time for Christmas? It would have been up there with the best games ever made.

They could give Obsidian a buttload of money, as much time as it takes (basically the Valve or Bungie way of doing things) and they would both make a fortune and make a lot of players happy. But that won't happen. At best it'll be a shitty generic action "game" with SW plastered on the box for a quick cash grab (and probably with bullshit multiplayer forced on us, because OMG multiplayer, Day 1 nickel and dime DLC shit, etc). In a way, I'd rather just remember those games as they were, before the industry became what it is now. I'd rather not have them, than see a new title butchered with the EA/Activision treatment.

 

[Sargonas42]

Thing is, it's not even EA's call, it's LucasArts, who is now owned by Disney.

Disney's been ramping up their interactive digital media department, so chances are they'd do it in-house instead.

We don't know the contracts LucasArts has with EA, it could state that EA may have some rights to the publishing side, then there may never be an agreement reached even if one party was interested.

Actually I already covered that above and explained how the contracts work. Also for what it's worth ThriKreen is ex Bioware and is also a relative reliable source of info on that topic.

The long and the short is, Lucas Arts (ie Disney now) has final say in anything Star Wars. EA can't lift a finger without their approval, it's always been that way really. Even during the development of TOR there were Lucas Arts producers embedded with the dev team overseeing things, and Lucas had to sign off on every little detail. Even things like on promotional artwork which side of the body a given character held a light saber and if his image featured a left or right side profile of his face, and if the right hand or left hand was above the other on his saber grip had to be approved. They even kicked things back over the thickness of a saber blade down to a single pixel, and the color.

That said, whomever Disney/Lucas taps to make a KOTOR3 (at this point I would suspect it's in house or Obsidian) I would buy the frack out of that!

 

[Saviordd1]

As the only one who liked TOR I'd suggest that for you honestly, its not terrible.

That said it depends on what Disney wants to do more than anything.

 

[ThriKreen]

Another interesting tidbit about approvals and how much of a grip LucasArts has on things: if you paid attention, early on in TOR, you were limited to Dark Side having red lightsaber colours and Light Side only having blue and green (heck, I think they still have class restrictions on them for crafting). Very rarely were other colours even offered, and even then it seems they're limited to the higher tier rewards from operations and such - again limiting who can get them.

I'd imagine it was an up-hill battle trying to allow alt blade colours, let alone for the other games too.

You'd notice that even in the media: movies, TV shows, other games, it's often enforced as part of the look and feel of the franchise (i.e. being able to ID who's who).

 

[freakonaleash]

Lets just ignore the blunder of TOR and just move on.

It is one of their last remaining franchises that has remained untainted

Look, it's a nice sentiment but I don't think that people are ever going to bring KotOR into a conversation without it being weighted down by TOR. The two ideas are entwined at this point and any conversation of a KoTOR 3 is going to be hampered by the huge financial setback that came with TOR. Whether you like it or not, TOR is even more of a blemish on the franchise than the rushed and buggy KoTOR 2.

Now look at it through the eyes of the current EA. They want to funnel money into making the "big hits" to boost their profits. Do you think that they would take a risk on making a new game in a property that let them down so spectacularly with TOR?

Unless there is a major shift in the corporate culture at EA (and I mean more of a shift than just changing the CEO), I think there is very little chance of seeing a third KoTOR. I just don't think they would be able to justify the risk to their stockholders and unfortunately, that seems to be the name of the game anymore.

To be honest, I'm not even sure if I would want a KoTOR 3 from them anyway. Bioware just isn't the company that released that game anymore.

[sub][sub][sub]Plus, I'd rather have Jade Empire 2 anyway. >.>[/sub][/sub][/sub]

I agree with you on that. I would like to see KOTOR 3 in theory, but I don't think Bioware has it in them anymore to make a game of that caliber.

 

[Baldr]

Thing is, it's not even EA's call, it's LucasArts, who is now owned by Disney.

Disney's been ramping up their interactive digital media department, so chances are they'd do it in-house instead.

We don't know the contracts LucasArts has with EA, it could state that EA may have some rights to the publishing side, then there may never be an agreement reached even if one party was interested.

Actually I already covered that above and explained how the contracts work. Also for what it's worth ThriKreen is ex Bioware and is also a relative reliable source of info on that topic.

The long and the short is, Lucas Arts (ie Disney now) has final say in anything Star Wars. EA can't lift a finger without their approval, it's always been that way really. Even during the development of TOR there were Lucas Arts producers embedded with the dev team overseeing things, and Lucas had to sign off on every little detail. Even things like on promotional artwork which side of the body a given character held a light saber and if his image featured a left or right side profile of his face, and if the right hand or left hand was above the other on his saber grip had to be approved. They even kicked things back over the thickness of a saber blade down to a single pixel, and the color.

That said, whomever Disney/Lucas taps to make a KOTOR3 (at this point I would suspect it's in house or Obsidian) I would buy the frack out of that!

I'm not denying that LucasArts has (almost) full control over the rights to Star Wars games, but lets be a little more smart about this. There is no questioning that EA has a contract with LucasArts. We do not know what is in that contract other than LucasArts giving rights to use KoToR stuff for "Star Wars: The Old Republic". What else is in that contract is speculation. I do not know what is in the contract, ThriKreen may or may not know.

From this point on, this is all speculation from my experience in the industry and with these type of business contracts. It would be stupid for EA business wise to make a KoToR game, then let LucasArts go to another company and create competition against The Old Republic. There has to be something in the contract that would prevent LucasArts from doing this while TOR is still live or for a certain number of years.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Creating a game for an already established IP that you don't own costs money. It costs a lot of money when you're developing in one of the most recognizable and successful franchises in the entire world.

I would much rather they just develop multiple Mass Effect games at the same time than develop another KOTOR. Instead of spending hundreds of thousands on licensing the rights, they could spend that money hiring more people to make a better game for the same cost. Because at the end of the day I really don't give a shit if it's dark energy manipulations or if it's midichlorians(oh god I hate lucas.)