So yeah, another controller/M+KB topic

[chikusho]

a) What if they could make a prosthetic limb that performs better than a real one? (I'm guessing that the paralympics have some pretty damn specifc rules regarding what kinds of prosthetics are allowed to be used.)

Those already exist. But the ability of increased speed also has numerous drawbacks. For one, it's a lot harder for the athletes to turn and to stop.

b) Why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with?

Because it's a game, for fun, where everyone who wants to can enter. Also, it's a pentathlon, where running is just one aspect out of a number of activities.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Personally, I'd think you would be better off just trying to get better with the KB+M than use the controller. Yes I understand it is difficult at first especially in an FPS like this as I myself had my first multiplayer FPS on PC as CoD 2. While you may do well with the controller and if you're happy with it stick with it but stuff like aim assist will just screw you in the long run.

Aim assist is a necessary crutch for controllers in this environment but you're not playing competitively so it is all about fun. That the controller vs mouse is not so much a fun factor or preference argument it is a speed and accuracy one and being more used to one will obviously make you better at one. Although, someone who is equal in their use of both will do better with a mouse in a FPS setting.

Also if you actually did beat me or anyone else it just means you played better in that game. I only dislike people who win when they are sore winners and try wave their dick around. That said they are best people to actually beat if they do it in the middle of a round before they win.

 

[elvor0]

What? Not /quite/ sure if I missed something here, but people are complaining that the gamepad has an aim assist and using it against KBM players is cheating? Do we not constantly state that the KBM is better for FPS, and that the pad needs an aim assist in order for it to actually function properly?

Even with the Gamepad having aim assist, your potential for skill is hampered significantly over a KBM player. You're never, ever going to have the precision of a mouse on a pad.

 

[DEAD34345]

There actually is an argument for it being cheating there, and it'd make me cautious of using it personally. If I (for some bizarre reason) was running competitive tournaments of Titanfall, I'd make sure that either everyone was playing M&KB or everyone was playing without, because while choice of controller is usually just a matter of personal choice, this game is actively supporting those with game-pads in a way that it doesn't for those with mice. That seems like cheating to me.

 

[OneCatch]

So I ask, if you met me in an online match, saw that I beat your team and scored the highest, would you consider me "cheating" or "less skilled" for using a gamepad?

Nowadays I exclusively use KBM for shooters because I find it easier. But, no. Aim assist is used with gamepads to make up for the lack of sensitivity on sticks. If it's too overpowered and gives pad users an advantage, it's a flaw with the game not the player (as with other balance issues like weapons or abilities being overpowered).

In general open multiplayer matchmaking I wouldn't worry about it at all. In organised competitive play I might consider letting the clan or whatever know, just to be safe. But if I were told a teammate or opposition were using one it generally wouldn't bother me.

As a rather weird aside, I got rather good at the GoldenEye remake for the Wii when I was between PCs (~8:1 KD ratio towards the end). The catch? I was using the bloody Wiimote instead of a gamepad (which nearly everyone else used for online play apparently). Whatever suits your playstyle is fine unless it's egregiously unsporting.

 

[Albino Boo]

K&M MP gamers calling average skilled pad users cheaters is like a fully abled bodied paralympic track runner calling other runners cheaters for using prosthetic limbs or using a standing start rather than the running blocks.

Actually Oscar Pistorius was banned from competing against able bodied athletes by the IAAF for having an unfair advantage. He went to the court for arbitration in sport, which overturned the ban. However the issue of blades versus legs is area that is under debate and constant study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics_of_Oscar_Pistorius%27_running_blades

 

[Fdzzaigl]

You can use whatever you want. Controllers are not better for FPS games if auto-aiming isn't in place though, they're simply less accurate.

You can't call skill either if you're using an aimbot, whether the game forces you or not, that's just the sad hard logic: you aren't the one doing the aiming, so you aren't using your personal skill.
However, games are about enjoyment, so by all means, go for it.

 

[Robert Marrs]

Use whatever you want so long as its not cheating. I would say using a controller puts you at a disadvantage against other players but if it works for you have at it. Doesn't make you less of a player or anything like that. Some people just like to make excuses. In reality they should be ashamed that someone using a controller beat them. Or maybe they already do so that is why they felt the need to rip on you.

 

[RevRaptor]

As far as I can tell the aim assist just slows the cursor down a little when on target, it doesn?t actually aim for you. It's a normal feature that is on all console shooters, it prevents target overshoot, that?s all. Its not actually giving a game pad user any advantage neither is it aiming for you. If that?s cheating then anyone using a dpi switching gaming mouse is also a cheater.

I think a lot of the bitching is just PC gamers not knowing how aim assist works on console, its not like an aim bot, its just a simple speed adjustment to balance out the controls with an analogue stick.

 

[TrevHead]

K&M MP gamers calling average skilled pad users cheaters is like a fully abled bodied paralympic track runner calling other runners cheaters for using prosthetic limbs or using a standing start rather than the running blocks.

Actually Oscar Pistorius was banned from competing against able bodied athletes by the IAAF for having an unfair advantage. He went to the court for arbitration in sport, which overturned the ban. However the issue of blades versus legs is area that is under debate and constant study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics_of_Oscar_Pistorius%27_running_blades

Thanks for the link it was very interesting. I guess the analogy wasn't as clear cut as I'd intended. Although one could say that which types of running blades are / not classed as cheating would be akin to how much auto aim TitanFall uses.

b) Why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with?

I won't pretend to act like I'm informed on the subject I believe that disabled athletes are allowed to compete in normal able bodied events if their prosthetics aren't deemed to give too much of an unfair advantage.

Although disabled ppl who actually do compete like this seem to be a rarity, I can't say I've never noticed any such ppl of the events I've seen on TV although it might be because that's the top flight of the sport and it's totally different in the semi amateur / grass roots that don't get much media attention.

 

[DrOswald]

Aim assist in titan fall does not make up for the inherent inferiority of the controller for aiming. It compensates a little but it is ultimately still worse. I would not call it cheating, and I would not say you are less skilled for using it. But there is a lot more going on in Titanfall than in a normal FPS. It might be that the controller is actually just the better input device for the game.

Titanfall is a strange game when it comes to controller preference. Because of all the parkour stuff it is halfway between a platformer and a standard FPS. The KB/M setup is better in most FPS's because it allows for more precise turning and movement is so basic that KB/M will work just as well as anything. But in Titanfall movement is really complex and is arguably more important that extremely precise aiming. Your increase in score might be more because you move better than because of any sort of aim assist.

 

[lacktheknack]

He can go soak his pretty little head.

Respawn put in controller support and presumably tried to balance it, so use whatever the hell you want to use.

 

[Caiphus]

He can go soak his pretty little head.

Respawn put in controller support and presumably tried to balance it, so use whatever the hell you want to use.

This seems fair. PC gamers consistently heckle console gamers about the advantages of using a mouse in shooters. Aim assist, if balanced correctly, can make up for that. It could be that the aim assist is a little too powerful in Titanfall? I have no idea, haven't played it, and won't play it with a controller.

But the fact that aim assist exists to remove the advantage that PC gamers often brag about seems fair to me.

 

[DSK-]

So I ask, if you met me in an online match, saw that I beat your team and scored the highest, would you consider me "cheating" or "less skilled" for using a gamepad?

Really this shouldn't be bothering me as much as it does, but I do have issues with people and being social, so anything that causes someone to look down on me...bothers me, whether I want it to or not.

No, I wouldn't consider you a cheater. The fact is, in regards to players who use wall hacks and triggers, there are certain patterns of behaviour involved, and quite often they are subtle. Furthermore, simply having a higher score doesn't necessarily mean that A) a player is cheating or B) that the player in question is good at the game/gamemode in question.

OP: It shouldn't really matter what you use, it all depends on your level of comfort versus the demands of the game. For instance, I cannot play FPS games on a console using a controller. It's painful and slow and I fucking hate it. I've been using a keyboard and mouse to play the likes of UT2004 with a fast sensitivity for god knows how many years, so playing the likes of Battlefield 3 with a sensitivity of 2 .7cm/360 (which means that in order to do a full 360 degrees in BF3 I move my mouse 2 .7cm's) is a piece of absolute piss.

If you were having trouble doing well in games with the controller and wanted to improve, then I would recommend using a mouse and keyboard. They key problem with that is getting used to the sensitivity, the necessary hand-eye co-ordination and the 'feel' of the game when using the mouse. You can do certain 'rituals' to improve your hand-eye co-ordination in-game and improve overall comfort by doing things like running around in an empty map, covering sight lines, pointing your crosshairs at a certain point/landmark and then trying to do a full 360 with the crosshairs landing back on said point/landmark, sprinting and using the mouse to steer and other bits and pieces.

I partied up with a good friend of mine in MW2 and he played with a controller, and was forever competing with me for the top of the scoreboard and getting decent positive nets. Anyone who can do well with a controller is a hero in my book, because I can't bloody get on with them!

 

[Albino Boo]

b) Why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with?

Oscar Pistorius despite having 2 below knee amputations was in the 10% of 400m runners the world and ran in the olympics in Beijing and London. He was good enough to race against the best in the world. The difference in money and sponsorship between able bodied and paralympic sport is vast. Professional athletes have to make a living. Pistorius career has some what been dented by the fact that he is on trial for murdering his girlfriend currently.

Sarah Storey competed for England in the Delhi 2010 commonwealth games in velodrome cycling. She was the last person to be cut from the GB London 2012 world record breaking gold medal winning team pursuit squad. In virtually any other country in the world, Sarah would have represented her country at both the paralympic and olympic games. She could well have picked up some silvers and bronzes at the olympics. All of this despite not having a left hand.

So answers your question, why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with? Because they can win.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Well, whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

Titanfall is one of those "console-online" shooters, so it would make sense that it would be more controller-friendly. It is also more about mobility, so more precise movement that is available on a gamepad would make the game somewhat easier.

I would still say that KB+M is always superior because of the precision given, but you have to get used to it.

I started online fpses through Modern Warfare 2, so I have little problem with other shooters that require twitch-instinct, my limitation is the fact that my reactions are kind of crap and that I tend to lose focus in heated moments.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

b) Why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with?

Oscar Pistorius despite having 2 below knee amputations was in the 10% of 400m runners the world and ran in the olympics in Beijing and London. He was good enough to race against the best in the world. The difference in money and sponsorship between able bodied and paralympic sport is vast. Professional athletes have to make a living. Pistorius career has some what been dented by the fact that he is on trial for murdering his girlfriend currently.

Sarah Storey competed for England in the Delhi 2010 commonwealth games in velodrome cycling. She was the last person to be cut from the GB London 2012 world record breaking gold medal winning team pursuit squad. In virtually any other country in the world, Sarah would have represented her country at both the paralympic and olympic games. She could well have picked up some silvers and bronzes at the olympics. All of this despite not having a left hand.

So answers your question, why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with? Because they can win.

It's more a question on whether certain prosthesis (eg leg blades) and the reduction in weight amputees gain provide an unfair advantage over runners that have a full set of limbs or not.

 

[Albino Boo]

It's more a question on whether certain prosthesis (eg leg blades) and the reduction in weight amputees gain provide an unfair advantage over runners that have a full set of limbs or not.

Please read the thread before replying

This is the full quote

I think your comparison is dodgy.

a) What if they could make a prosthetic limb that performs better than a real one? (I'm guessing that the paralympics have some pretty damn specific rules regarding what kinds of prosthetics are allowed to be used.)

b) Why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with?

So its clearly two different questions


Furthermore I had already dealt with the first question in a different post

Actually Oscar Pistorius was banned from competing against able bodied athletes by the IAAF for having an unfair advantage. He went to the court for arbitration in sport, which overturned the ban. However the issue of blades versus legs is area that is under debate and constant study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics_of_Oscar_Pistorius%27_running_blades

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

-snip-

So your post that I replied to is stating that they can win because or in-spite of their amputations and prosthetics? It doesn't specifically say why they win, only that they can.

Secondly you removed the first part of [user]Zhukov[/user]'s post, therefor I assumed you were only dealing the particular piece you kept and not the first point.

Thirdly I did read your first post, however due to your unremarkable avatar and answering [user]TrevHead[/user]'s and [user]Zhukov[/user]'s posts so far apart that I thought your posts were done by separate people.

 

[Albino Boo]

-snip-

So your post that I replied to is stating that they can win because or in-spite of their amputations and prosthetics? It doesn't specifically say why they win, only that they can.

Secondly you removed the first part of [user]Zhukov[/user]'s post, therefor I assumed you were only dealing the particular piece you kept and not the first point.

Thirdly I did read your first post, however due to your unremarkable avatar and answering [user]TrevHead[/user]'s and [user]Zhukov[/user]'s posts so far apart that I thought your posts were done by separate people.

Well if you had read the thread instead of just reading the last post it would not be a problem would it.

Lets look a my quote which you replied to

b) Why would able bodied and disabled athletes be competing in the same event to begin with?

The clue its that there is a letter B in front of the question. So again please read the the thread before replying. As a further piece of advice, when you are in hole stop digging.