So you wanted to know why cops are such assholes? Go ahead, ask.

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Since we found only one of your questions to have higher black participation rates (searches incident to traffic stops), we can look at why. It's less likely that black people are searched more because they break the law more often (because if you're being stopped, you've either already broken a law or your vehicle matches some suspect vehicle description) but rather because the officer involved has some rationale to legally justify a search. The reason the officer has to be able to describe and articulate a justifiable reason to search is because illegally searching someone can get you hit with official oppression charges, and perhaps other federal charges.

I take exception with the part I highlighted for one reason. I once got pulled over three times in short succession for a burned out tail light, that I happened to be while on the way to the auto store to get a replacement for it. Once by the Highway Patrol, once by City Police, and once by a Sheriff?s Deputy. Made the deputy laugh when I told him it was the third time in an hour and a half I got pulled over for it. Must have been a really slow day or something.

 

[kyp275]

Is it fair to judge every cop because of one prick? Absolutely not. However considerin how often I've seen cops outright abuse their authority (not just the prick who rapes his wife and laughs off the accusation) or be completely indifferent to any sort of fucked up situation (watched a cop in my store shrug his shoulders and say the words "Not my problem" when he saw someone outright verbally threatening one of the cashiers) I'm personally not bothered by my lack of objectivity.

"Is it fair to judge every black/(insert ethnicity or religion) people because of one prick? Absolutely not. However, considering how often I've seen them commit crimes or (insert things you don't like) acts like an asshole, I'm personally not bothered by my lack of objectivity."

People aren't born police. It is an institution that they choose to join and remain part of.

Whether or not the police as a whole are bad, judging someone for their choices is not remotely the same as judging them for the circumstances of their parentage.

So replace police with:

garbage collector, fastfood worker, lawyers, doctors who perform abortions, insert whatever job people look down upon, it's the same thing.


ignorance is ignorance, and bigotry is bigotry, you're literally arguing relative privation here. But please, do go on and explain how judging and discriminating against everyone in a career field that you don't know isn't really bigotry at all.

 

[kyp275]

If you're going to give people weapons and a status that sometimes approaches diplomatic immunity, you're goddamn right that those people should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen. If you aren't ready to have your conduct scrutinized to hell and back, then the power that comes with law enforcement should not be in your hands; power should always come with equal responsibility.

Sure.

It doesn't matter if 90% cops have good intentions if the other 10% can shoot down innocent people like dogs and get away with it, because it clearly illustrates that the system that is supposed to keep those 10% in check is either nonexistent or not functioning.

Where is this 10% of cops (which FYI, is about 111,000 in the US) shooting down innocent people like dogs and getting away with it? Perhaps I haven't checked the news often lately, but I seems to have missed the story where over 100 thousand innocent people got shot by corrupt police.

Perspective, please use it.

And in case anyone asks, no, I will not accept incompetence or accidents as justifiable excuses for civilian fatality. If you agree under oath to serve and protect people, and prove that you're incapable of doing so, it doesn't matter weather you WANT to help people; your incompetence can get people killed. You would never allow untrained or poorly trained individuals to perform the duty of a surgeon, or a fire fighter. The same standard should apply to law enforcement.

Yea, doctors and surgeons are never poorly trained nor make any mistakes.

Oh wait.

Every year somewhere between 98,000 to 444,000 people die in hospital due to mistakes and preventable harms.

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals

given the level of indignation and outrage directed at the entire police profession by the posters in here due to police misconducts, I would imagine people will also be raging at the entire medical profession, lamenting how they can never trust a medical professional ever again for the rest of their life.

Every system has faults, but there's a reason people like doctors have to go through such rigorous training. If the system you're working with has lives resting on it's back, then you better be damn sure you TRY to make it perfect, regardless of weather or not you succeed.

See above for how well that rigorous training is working out.

 

[Bat Vader]

First of all what does asshole mean?

I'm fine with them being grumpy and snarky, but I think what people have a problem with is when they go out and shoot people for next to no reason. Or because they're black.

Sorry but I don't like them. Some are not bad, a large amount. I am biased because I saw them arrest a family member as a child. But the constant shooting black people in the back that doesn't get recorded along with fascist tendencies sure isn't helping. Maybe other cops aren't so bad. And American cops>Mexican cops>Colombian cops. I understand shooting a guy who pulls out a gun. But when white mass shooters are brought in alive while black child support dodgers are shot in the back, this is fucked up and I don't like it.

Nice to see the over generalization is still there. Singling out what one Officer or a very few amount of them has done (which it is, it's an incredibly small number of Police Officers that do this sort of shit) and judging the rest of them on it? (which you've both done) is just stupid. Completely and utterly stupid.

I'm a visible minority. Should i continue to be wary of police even if i'm doing not doing anything wrong?


I'm literally afraid of cops. I won't even be friends/date anyone who has a policeman as a family memeber.

I'm a 6'3 white guy and I've been approached, questioned and even followed by Police even though I hadn't done a single thing wrong. Should I judge them and call out racism because they're doing their job? Should I make sure my possible friends meet the criteria of not being related to a Law Enforcement Officer?

Narrow minded fools like you are another factor that contributes to certain cops acting the way they do. If I was being called racist and judged by people for doing my job I'd be pretty damn bitter about it too.

Even if only a few officers are doing it, all the other cops protect them. So don't give me this "not all of them are like that" shit.

Do you have proof that all the other cops protect them? Doing a quick Google search I found a couple different stories of cops testifying against other cops. You can't really generalize that all other cops protect them when it seems that they don't.

Spoiler

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/drew-ryser-houston-teen-beating-trial_n_3395731.html

Spoiler

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2011/12/2_new_orleans_cops_testify_aga.html

You're just repeating the same "not all of them are like that" shit.

You're saying they are. Why not provide some proof to go along with your generalizations. I provided proof for saying they aren't all like that.

 

[Janaschi]

Before I start, I would like to mention that when I go through my account of bad experiences with police officers, that I am not using those experiences as an attempt to generalize the police force: I am simply looking for your feedback as to your opinion(s) on the situations, and how you would have acted were you in their shoes (as much as you can, since it is essentially impossible to do, in retrospect).

#1 My first bad experience with a police officer, was way back when I was in 5th grade. I was at a friend's house, and we were out in the woods playing with fire crackers. Someone apparently had called the cops on us, and we were just walking out of the woods, back to the house, when a police officer approached us, with his pistol out of its holster. We had a bag on us, which is where we had kept our fireworks, and through the entire interrogation, he had his pistol out, pointed at us. Even today, thinking back on it, I cannot understand why a police officer would point their firearm at a group of children, holding nothing more than a paper bag.

#2 Fast-forward a few years, and I have a friend named Ryan, who had a police officer as his father. When we got our groups together, never really got into too much trouble, but we did go around doing stupid shit like stealing/moving signs, wrestling in peoples' yards in the middle of the night, and one time we were even riding down the road in a lawnmower with one of us holding onto the back with a paintball gun. His father was aware of all of this, and the specific reason why we likely never got caught, was because he would always call and update us if a complaint ever went out about us, so that we could hoof it back to the house before a patrol car came around.

#3 The last bad experience I have had that I would consider noteworthy, was back when my parents were fighting to have custody over me. Due to personal reasons that I am not going to get into here, it was ultimately decided by my mom to get a lawyer, and since my dad did not have a copy of my birth certificate or some crap (I was not really involved in their discussions), our lawyer advised that we had the option for me to stay longer than my normal visitation until the legal wheels began moving, since if I had gone back, my dad had planned on moving to Texas where, legally, I would have been forced to stay with him until I was either 18, or I had graduated high school. Well, of course, he got the cops involved, and during the time where I was still there under normal visitation, he had two mediators there. One male, who did not get involved at all except to watch, and a female officer, who was a Class A sociopath if I have ever seen one.

Refused to see both sides of the story, even though my dad did not provide a single iota of evidence to support his claims, and immediately assumed that I was a deviant, and proceeded to threaten that I would be sent to juvy, that she would personally see to my mom being thrown in jail, and my younger brother being sent through the foster channels. Did not even attempt to be neutral as a mediator, and the male cop just watched the entire ordeal without ever saying a word. We spoke with our lawyer that night, and after that harassment, it was decided that I would be driven back home to avoid further police harassment.

Well, I was back home by the end of visitation, and was in school the next day. However, my dad, was not, and it was later discovered, since he would not accept calls from us, and we were forced to just leave voicemails, that he had stayed in a motel close to her, and they came with the cops the next day, and arrested her. Ultimately, no laws were broken, the officers involved were made well aware of where I was, yet they still put her in cuffs and arrested her, and even though my little brother was in school and needed care, they did not give a shit, and he was essentially left at home by himself when he got back, not knowing what was going on. Eventually, she was released, but I was absolutely disgusted at the sheer bias and lack of compassion that they showed towards a situation they did not even pretend to understand and/or mediate.

That last one got a bit long and ranty-sounding - sorry about that. I am interested in hearing a neutral officer's opinion on these events, however. Looking forward to checking back in later!

 

[BoogieManFL]

OP, if you haven't, read this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.873536-So-tell-Me-have-you-ever-experienced-police-brutality#21928008

I urge you to read that thread.



I know cops have a stressful job, and they don't get paid enough. But some of them go out of their way to be an asshole when there is no cause.

I've personally witnessed cops lying about how fast someone I was in the car was with was driving - by a LOT. Obviously he didn't use his detector because I doubt they have a huge margin of error. He lied purely to write a ticket.

There is a small town in Indiana where a highway meets the town and the speed drops from like 55 to 45 or so. The cops there will wait nearby and pull people over who didn't slow down to the new speed limit BEFORE passing into the new zone. If you are going over the new limit - at all - they will pull you over and ticket you. You can be applying your breaks and slowing down and it doesn't matter. Sure, maybe it's not illegal, but it's pretty shady. Wait farther down the road and if someone is still speeding instead of just not done slowing down then ticket them there. To do it right as the transition just makes people hate you. They know and don't care, it's purely to get your money.


I had a cop harass me when I was 17 for no reason other than I was driving through town late at night taking a friend home, all the while screaming at me and gripping his gun.

I've had cops follow me dangerously close, breaking the law and being unsafe for no reason.

Don't even get me started on those dirty red light cameras they have at some intersections. Those exist to make money, not to make anyone safe. Those are no different than invisible toll booths or mob thugs making you pay protection money because they will send you a $150 ticket for not stopping before making a right turn on red even WHEN THE ENTIRE ROAD AND INTERSECTION IS CLEAR and there is no danger to ANYONE. Some company across the country gets to send the video to a local officer here, who views the video - sees that no one was in danger and you went through safely and prudently, but still adds their signature to make it official and ticket you. Greed. Some people even discovered yellow light durations were secretly lowered on some intersections with red light cameras? Yeah, that's criminal behavior right there and the cops support it because it gets them money.


The list of bad experiences is extensive, if you're curious read that post I linked. There are some other good posts there as well.



It's a rough job, but if you can't deal with the stress and learn how to react proportionately to the situation at hand then maybe you should find another line of work. You're supposed to deescalate and diffuse situations, not provoke them! No one wants to be screamed at by some irrationally behaving dude holding a gun - especially when they've done literally nothing wrong.

 

[murrow]

I live in a country (Brazil) in which the police force is not even remotely similar to the USA's. Our force is actually militarized (as in being a formal branch of the military) and the job carries an awful stigma. Policemen are also mostly very poor and black, and they tend share a social background with petty criminals. But I think I'd like to ask you a couple of things, if only to see how things work in a different context.

1- In popular culture the police is depicted as having a very strong corporate identity. This leads, I assume, to camaraderie, but it's also implied that it makes for faults and crimes perpetrated by cops to be covered up. My question is: how accountable to society is the police force in America? How open it is for scrutiny, be it civil or governmental? Is someone looking for dirt likely to be stonewalled? And how should one proceed if one believes the local cops are violating the law?

2- Two years ago in a demonstration in São Paulo, a cop was isolated and beaten up by black bloc protesters. During a subsequent demonstration the same week, the police dialed up the violence and cracked down on everyone, irrespective of hostile intent. There were innumerable reports of passers-by hit by tear gas, locals beaten up and booked and people hit in the face by rubber bullets. Some people suggested that the cops were acting like that out of revenge for the wounded comrade. In your experience, is the police prone to reacting in such a way?

3- What's your take on demonstrations and similar activities (strikes, college student interventions etc)? What are the criteria for the acceptable use of force, and how often (if at all) you see them disrespected?

4- Lastly, in large private activities, like a ball game in a privately owned stadium, do the parties in question rely on police for security, or are they required to provide their own security? I know the rules vary from country to country.

 

[nepheleim]

Since we found only one of your questions to have higher black participation rates (searches incident to traffic stops), we can look at why. It's less likely that black people are searched more because they break the law more often (because if you're being stopped, you've either already broken a law or your vehicle matches some suspect vehicle description) but rather because the officer involved has some rationale to legally justify a search. The reason the officer has to be able to describe and articulate a justifiable reason to search is because illegally searching someone can get you hit with official oppression charges, and perhaps other federal charges.

I take exception with the part I highlighted for one reason. I once got pulled over three times in short succession for a burned out tail light, that I happened to be while on the way to the auto store to get a replacement for it. Once by the Highway Patrol, once by City Police, and once by a Sheriff?s Deputy. Made the deputy laugh when I told him it was the third time in an hour and a half I got pulled over for it. Must have been a really slow day or something.

Defective safety equipment is a breach of your local transportation code (I bet, since you got pulled over for it). It's a minor violation of a minor law which virtually nobody bothers to enforce, but it's still a breach of law.

 

[nepheleim]

The impression we see more and more of late is cops openly acting as though they are in a warzone and the rest of us are the enemy. You could make the argument that it's always been this way because technically police in western society were invented as tool for the wealthy to keep status quo. However as a kid growing up even in the 80s I was taught that cops were like a combination of Fire Fighter, EMT and Soldier. That Police were meant as societies shield against all danger and it was their job to put everyone above themselves.

However, it's become extremely consistent that in all these recent cases of abuse of power and authority the legal defense as been that "My life was in danger" and this really bugs me. I mean, isn't that your job? Fire Fighters don't just drop a bomb on burning buildings because it was too "dangerous" to go in and save someone life. Why does a cop get to use it as an excuse to gun down some woman with dementia wielding a knife?*this happened a couple months ago. A woman was threatening to kill herself with a knife in a public square and two officers gunned her down, one with an M16. They were absolved of any wrong doing. They were called to the scene by the husband who just wanted help calming her down. Since they had not taken the threat negotiation course yet they claimed they were incapable of properly evaluating the situation and the M16 just happened to be the first gun on the rack.*

Anyway I guess my question is this, did you feel like your job was about more than removing civilian threats? Do you feel like the priorities of police have changed since you retired?

Nobody signs up for a job with the express intent of dying in the line of duty. You'll note that when a firefighter, or a police officer, or soldier moves towards danger and dies, they are described as going above and beyond the call of duty. Not "they just did the baseline for their job."

You can also view this economically. In one day, a firefighter or police officer will interact with (99.99% positively) several dozen people, while backed up by 200K dollars in training. If you get killed taking an unnecessary risk like trying to grapple with a knife wielding suspect, then those other people will not be able to call on you to help them when they need it. It will take months to train a replacement, and in that interim, your fellows will be short a man and in that much higher risk, increasing the likelihood that they need to use force to maintain control. All of that solely because you're not their to back them up anymore.

My job was to protect the peace. I removed people who refused to abide by the basic social contract of any city and placed them in jail with a minimum of injury to their person. The priority of policing (helped no doubt by modern media) has shifted in recent years from beat responsibility, that paternalistic "ownership" of your area and its inhabitants, to keeping one's head down and just collecting the paycheck. It's a shame, really.

 

[nepheleim]

Before I start, I would like to mention that when I go through my account of bad experiences with police officers, that I am not using those experiences as an attempt to generalize the police force: I am simply looking for your feedback as to your opinion(s) on the situations, and how you would have acted were you in their shoes (as much as you can, since it is essentially impossible to do, in retrospect).

#1 My first bad experience with a police officer, was way back when I was in 5th grade. I was at a friend's house, and we were out in the woods playing with fire crackers. Someone apparently had called the cops on us, and we were just walking out of the woods, back to the house, when a police officer approached us, with his pistol out of its holster. We had a bag on us, which is where we had kept our fireworks, and through the entire interrogation, he had his pistol out, pointed at us. Even today, thinking back on it, I cannot understand why a police officer would point their firearm at a group of children, holding nothing more than a paper bag.

#2 Fast-forward a few years, and I have a friend named Ryan, who had a police officer as his father. When we got our groups together, never really got into too much trouble, but we did go around doing stupid shit like stealing/moving signs, wrestling in peoples' yards in the middle of the night, and one time we were even riding down the road in a lawnmower with one of us holding onto the back with a paintball gun. His father was aware of all of this, and the specific reason why we likely never got caught, was because he would always call and update us if a complaint ever went out about us, so that we could hoof it back to the house before a patrol car came around.

#3 The last bad experience I have had that I would consider noteworthy, was back when my parents were fighting to have custody over me. Due to personal reasons that I am not going to get into here, it was ultimately decided by my mom to get a lawyer, and since my dad did not have a copy of my birth certificate or some crap (I was not really involved in their discussions), our lawyer advised that we had the option for me to stay longer than my normal visitation until the legal wheels began moving, since if I had gone back, my dad had planned on moving to Texas where, legally, I would have been forced to stay with him until I was either 18, or I had graduated high school. Well, of course, he got the cops involved, and during the time where I was still there under normal visitation, he had two mediators there. One male, who did not get involved at all except to watch, and a female officer, who was a Class A sociopath if I have ever seen one.

Refused to see both sides of the story, even though my dad did not provide a single iota of evidence to support his claims, and immediately assumed that I was a deviant, and proceeded to threaten that I would be sent to juvy, that she would personally see to my mom being thrown in jail, and my younger brother being sent through the foster channels. Did not even attempt to be neutral as a mediator, and the male cop just watched the entire ordeal without ever saying a word. We spoke with our lawyer that night, and after that harassment, it was decided that I would be driven back home to avoid further police harassment.

Well, I was back home by the end of visitation, and was in school the next day. However, my dad, was not, and it was later discovered, since he would not accept calls from us, and we were forced to just leave voicemails, that he had stayed in a motel close to her, and they came with the cops the next day, and arrested her. Ultimately, no laws were broken, the officers involved were made well aware of where I was, yet they still put her in cuffs and arrested her, and even though my little brother was in school and needed care, they did not give a shit, and he was essentially left at home by himself when he got back, not knowing what was going on. Eventually, she was released, but I was absolutely disgusted at the sheer bias and lack of compassion that they showed towards a situation they did not even pretend to understand and/or mediate.

That last one got a bit long and ranty-sounding - sorry about that. I am interested in hearing a neutral officer's opinion on these events, however. Looking forward to checking back in later!

1. What makes you think the officer went out there looking for children with fireworks? Given how hysterical (even without cause) some people are when they call 911, I wouldn't be surprised if they thought they were looking for someone shooting off a .22. The officer doesn't know who you are, or what's in the bag. Until he does, you're a threat, and the best tool for dealing with any unknown potentially dangerous threat is a firearm. I don't know what I would have done in the officer's shoes, as I don't know what his call sheet said. Likely, I would have proned you out, taken the bag and anything else loose, and patted everyone down for weapons. Then we would be able to chat peaceably.

2. His dad could get in a lot of trouble for that.

3. I'm not sure I understand the last one. In Texas, where I live, it takes a court order to arrest a parent for anything involving custody or disputes therein. Also, the age of criminal majority is 17, not 18, so you could have left, or filed an emancipation of minor after age 14. I think the reason I don't understand the details is your overuse of passive voice. I'm not sure who is deciding things (like you should be driven home) or what claims are being made without support. Thus, I don't know how to answer. If you can clarify, I can try again.

 

[nepheleim]

OP, if you haven't, read this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.873536-So-tell-Me-have-you-ever-experienced-police-brutality#21928008

I urge you to read that thread.



I know cops have a stressful job, and they don't get paid enough. But some of them go out of their way to be an asshole when there is no cause.

I've personally witnessed cops lying about how fast someone I was in the car was with was driving - by a LOT. Obviously he didn't use his detector because I doubt they have a huge margin of error. He lied purely to write a ticket.

There is a small town in Indiana where a highway meets the town and the speed drops from like 55 to 45 or so. The cops there will wait nearby and pull people over who didn't slow down to the new speed limit BEFORE passing into the new zone. If you are going over the new limit - at all - they will pull you over and ticket you. You can be applying your breaks and slowing down and it doesn't matter. Sure, maybe it's not illegal, but it's pretty shady. Wait farther down the road and if someone is still speeding instead of just not done slowing down then ticket them there. To do it right as the transition just makes people hate you. They know and don't care, it's purely to get your money.


I had a cop harass me when I was 17 for no reason other than I was driving through town late at night taking a friend home, all the while screaming at me and gripping his gun.

I've had cops follow me dangerously close, breaking the law and being unsafe for no reason.

Don't even get me started on those dirty red light cameras they have at some intersections. Those exist to make money, not to make anyone safe. Those are no different than invisible toll booths or mob thugs making you pay protection money because they will send you a $150 ticket for not stopping before making a right turn on red even WHEN THE ENTIRE ROAD AND INTERSECTION IS CLEAR and there is no danger to ANYONE. Some company across the country gets to send the video to a local officer here, who views the video - sees that no one was in danger and you went through safely and prudently, but still adds their signature to make it official and ticket you. Greed. Some people even discovered yellow light durations were secretly lowered on some intersections with red light cameras? Yeah, that's criminal behavior right there and the cops support it because it gets them money.


The list of bad experiences is extensive, if you're curious read that post I linked. There are some other good posts there as well.



It's a rough job, but if you can't deal with the stress and learn how to react proportionately to the situation at hand then maybe you should find another line of work. You're supposed to deescalate and diffuse situations, not provoke them! No one wants to be screamed at by some irrationally behaving dude holding a gun - especially when they've done literally nothing wrong.

There was no question in here that I could find. I would point out that police aren't paid on commission. They don't get any money from red light cameras, the department might. And even that won't get them a raise or anything tangible. I don't know why an officer would be yelling at you in the middle of the night, you'd have to ask him.

Also, I was a cop, and I hate speed traps. Nobody likes speed traps. Some of the more rural jurisdictions need them for revenue or to clear overhead. Whatever. I never liked writing tickets at all, when I could get away with it. I preferred answering domestic violence calls or robbery and the like. Violent crimes.

 

[nepheleim]

I live in a country (Brazil) in which the police force is not even remotely similar to the USA's. Our force is actually militarized (as in being a formal branch of the military) and the job carries an awful stigma. Policemen are also mostly very poor and black, and they tend share a social background with petty criminals. But I think I'd like to ask you a couple of things, if only to see how things work in a different context.

1- In popular culture the police is depicted as having a very strong corporate identity. This leads, I assume, to camaraderie, but it's also implied that it makes for faults and crimes perpetrated by cops to be covered up. My question is: how accountable to society is the police force in America? How open it is for scrutiny, be it civil or governmental? Is someone looking for dirt likely to be stonewalled? And how should one proceed if one believes the local cops are violating the law?

2- Two years ago in a demonstration in São Paulo, a cop was isolated and beaten up by black bloc protesters. During a subsequent demonstration the same week, the police dialed up the violence and cracked down on everyone, irrespective of hostile intent. There were innumerable reports of passers-by hit by tear gas, locals beaten up and booked and people hit in the face by rubber bullets. Some people suggested that the cops were acting like that out of revenge for the wounded comrade. In your experience, is the police prone to reacting in such a way?

3- What's your take on demonstrations and similar activities (strikes, college student interventions etc)? What are the criteria for the acceptable use of force, and how often (if at all) you see them disrespected?

4- Lastly, in large private activities, like a ball game in a privately owned stadium, do the parties in question rely on police for security, or are they required to provide their own security? I know the rules vary from country to country.

1. I'm not sure what you mean by police in regard to a strong corporate identity. Some officers identify strongly with their jursidiction. Some identify more strongly as peace officers (a state classification in those states with licensing). Others consider themselves law enforcement first, regardless of where they are. I considered my work public service. On duty, I did my job. Off duty, I avoided my jurisdiction like the plague, and didn't associate with other officers, because my home life and work life need separation.

Accountability is supposed to be assured through a four layer system. Internal affairs investigates police from within the police, and a special investigative unit if death or serious bodily injury is involved. The local District Attorney has their own investigators to investigate police misconduct as well. Finally, the grand jury system is supposed to be the final check on police conduct. In recent decades, the civil court system has stepped up to represent families who didn't receive the "justice" they were entitled to, and acts as an de facto check on police conduct through increased liability.

2. I can't compare brazil to the US. From what I understand, it was common practice to go out and execute "street children" for bounty there, so the mindsets are likely totally different.

3. Large scale protests have pretty simple rules that are usually followed (99% of the time). Which is why you never see them on the news. There are small protests every day across my state alone, and they get next to no media coverage because a) they're boring and b) they stick to the rules so nobody gets hurt.

4. In my state private facilities can hire their own armed security, and can hire off duty police and pay them part time as a contractor to provide additional security.

 

[nepheleim]

It is not my opinion that "All cops are assholes", it's my opinion that the system that employs them is demonstrably destructive and corrupt. This is the same logic that people use to fight gun laws; most of the people who own guns are not killers.

But here's the thing, it only takes one nutcase with an automatic weapon to commit a massacre.

And it only takes one jack booted thug with a badge to end an innocent life.

What any given police officer DOES get away with is nowhere nearly as important as what a police officer COULD get away with.

If you're going to give people weapons and a status that sometimes approaches diplomatic immunity, you're goddamn right that those people should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen. If you aren't ready to have your conduct scrutinized to hell and back, then the power that comes with law enforcement should not be in your hands; power should always come with equal responsibility.

It doesn't matter if 90% cops have good intentions if the other 10% can shoot down innocent people like dogs and get away with it, because it clearly illustrates that the system that is supposed to keep those 10% in check is either nonexistent or not functioning.

And in case anyone asks, no, I will not accept incompetence or accidents as justifiable excuses for civilian fatality. If you agree under oath to serve and protect people, and prove that you're incapable of doing so, it doesn't matter weather you WANT to help people; your incompetence can get people killed. You would never allow untrained or poorly trained individuals to perform the duty of a surgeon, or a fire fighter. The same standard should apply to law enforcement.

Every system has faults, but there's a reason people like doctors have to go through such rigorous training. If the system you're working with has lives resting on it's back, then you better be damn sure you TRY to make it perfect, regardless of weather or not you succeed.

The people who enforce the law should be just as subject to it as anyone else.

So I guess my question is: Why is anyone surprised that so many people have a negative opinion of police?

The pathway to the ideal is just the roadway to ruin. Or something like that. Perfection is impossible to attain. We simple do the best we can. I don't think anyone is surprised anymore, at the negative perceptions of police put out by media, but I still don't like it.

Oh, btw, doctors kill way more people by accident than police do (whether accidental or intentional).

 

[murrow]

1. I'm not sure what you mean by police in regard to a strong corporate identity. Some officers identify strongly with their jursidiction. Some identify more strongly as peace officers (a state classification in those states with licensing). Others consider themselves law enforcement first, regardless of where they are. I considered my work public service. On duty, I did my job. Off duty, I avoided my jurisdiction like the plague, and didn't associate with other officers, because my home life and work life need separation.

I meant a sense of community and recognition in the broadest sense. Something similar to bonds between small town folk who meet in the big city, immigrants from the same country or supporters of the same team. Basically, the sort of spirit that prompts one to stand up for a fellow officer on the grounds of being a fellow officer alone. Some professions have a reputation for instigating this sort of identity. Whether it's true or just a cliché is another matter, of course.

In any case, thank you for the answers. It's interesting to know how things work abroad.

 

[Janaschi]

Before I start, I would like to mention that when I go through my account of bad experiences with police officers, that I am not using those experiences as an attempt to generalize the police force: I am simply looking for your feedback as to your opinion(s) on the situations, and how you would have acted were you in their shoes (as much as you can, since it is essentially impossible to do, in retrospect).

#1 My first bad experience with a police officer, was way back when I was in 5th grade. I was at a friend's house, and we were out in the woods playing with fire crackers. Someone apparently had called the cops on us, and we were just walking out of the woods, back to the house, when a police officer approached us, with his pistol out of its holster. We had a bag on us, which is where we had kept our fireworks, and through the entire interrogation, he had his pistol out, pointed at us. Even today, thinking back on it, I cannot understand why a police officer would point their firearm at a group of children, holding nothing more than a paper bag.

#2 Fast-forward a few years, and I have a friend named Ryan, who had a police officer as his father. When we got our groups together, never really got into too much trouble, but we did go around doing stupid shit like stealing/moving signs, wrestling in peoples' yards in the middle of the night, and one time we were even riding down the road in a lawnmower with one of us holding onto the back with a paintball gun. His father was aware of all of this, and the specific reason why we likely never got caught, was because he would always call and update us if a complaint ever went out about us, so that we could hoof it back to the house before a patrol car came around.

#3 The last bad experience I have had that I would consider noteworthy, was back when my parents were fighting to have custody over me. Due to personal reasons that I am not going to get into here, it was ultimately decided by my mom to get a lawyer, and since my dad did not have a copy of my birth certificate or some crap (I was not really involved in their discussions), our lawyer advised that we had the option for me to stay longer than my normal visitation until the legal wheels began moving, since if I had gone back, my dad had planned on moving to Texas where, legally, I would have been forced to stay with him until I was either 18, or I had graduated high school. Well, of course, he got the cops involved, and during the time where I was still there under normal visitation, he had two mediators there. One male, who did not get involved at all except to watch, and a female officer, who was a Class A sociopath if I have ever seen one.

Refused to see both sides of the story, even though my dad did not provide a single iota of evidence to support his claims, and immediately assumed that I was a deviant, and proceeded to threaten that I would be sent to juvy, that she would personally see to my mom being thrown in jail, and my younger brother being sent through the foster channels. Did not even attempt to be neutral as a mediator, and the male cop just watched the entire ordeal without ever saying a word. We spoke with our lawyer that night, and after that harassment, it was decided that I would be driven back home to avoid further police harassment.

Well, I was back home by the end of visitation, and was in school the next day. However, my dad, was not, and it was later discovered, since he would not accept calls from us, and we were forced to just leave voicemails, that he had stayed in a motel close to her, and they came with the cops the next day, and arrested her. Ultimately, no laws were broken, the officers involved were made well aware of where I was, yet they still put her in cuffs and arrested her, and even though my little brother was in school and needed care, they did not give a shit, and he was essentially left at home by himself when he got back, not knowing what was going on. Eventually, she was released, but I was absolutely disgusted at the sheer bias and lack of compassion that they showed towards a situation they did not even pretend to understand and/or mediate.

That last one got a bit long and ranty-sounding - sorry about that. I am interested in hearing a neutral officer's opinion on these events, however. Looking forward to checking back in later!

1. What makes you think the officer went out there looking for children with fireworks? Given how hysterical (even without cause) some people are when they call 911, I wouldn't be surprised if they thought they were looking for someone shooting off a .22. The officer doesn't know who you are, or what's in the bag. Until he does, you're a threat, and the best tool for dealing with any unknown potentially dangerous threat is a firearm. I don't know what I would have done in the officer's shoes, as I don't know what his call sheet said. Likely, I would have proned you out, taken the bag and anything else loose, and patted everyone down for weapons. Then we would be able to chat peaceably.

2. His dad could get in a lot of trouble for that.

3. I'm not sure I understand the last one. In Texas, where I live, it takes a court order to arrest a parent for anything involving custody or disputes therein. Also, the age of criminal majority is 17, not 18, so you could have left, or filed an emancipation of minor after age 14. I think the reason I don't understand the details is your overuse of passive voice. I'm not sure who is deciding things (like you should be driven home) or what claims are being made without support. Thus, I don't know how to answer. If you can clarify, I can try again.

#1 On one hand, I would agree with you if he had to comb the woods for us without knowing what he was dealing with. However, he approached us as we were all halfway back to the house, and had his firearm trained on us during the entire experience. It leaves me with a bad experience, because in no way should I have to worry about accidental discharge, or an overly-zealous cop, for doing something perfectly legal.

I do understand that whatever call he was responding to, would possibly have left him very cautious. But I also know that officers are typically trained to have their firearms in a quick position to be drawn - not to consistently have it pointed at civilians that have not been proven guilty of anything, and are not a proven threat. The reason I brought up this experience for you, is to ask your opinion as to when it becomes okay to assume malice over innocence, to the point where one puts even children, in our case for holding a single paper-bag, into immediate danger.

#2 I know he could/can get into trouble for that. But this thread is about asking you your opinion as to how certain behaviour through cops, influences both their actions, and how civilians perceive them. The fact is, cops are in a position of power, and as presented in this example, this power can even lead to that power being abused in the most trivial of scenarios. But, I could be wrong - maybe in this case, his actions were the exception... not the rule.

#3 I should have clarified - I do not really want your opinion on the custody business itself, as that would require a lot of personal information that I am not going to share with strangers. Essentially, all of that information that I did provide, was a lead-up to my experience with the female cop that refused to act in a professional and non-biased manner, when she was called out there to act as a mediator, and was supposed to be there, neutrally, only to make sure that nothing became a disturbance. Not to actually pick sides and blatantly threaten/harass the party she found herself biased against.

 

[nepheleim]

#1 On one hand, I would agree with you if he had to comb the woods for us without knowing what he was dealing with. However, he approached us as we were all halfway back to the house, and had his firearm trained on us during the entire experience. It leaves me with a bad experience, because in no way should I have to worry about accidental discharge, or an overly-zealous cop, for doing something perfectly legal.

I do understand that whatever call he was responding to, would possibly have left him very cautious. But I also know that officers are typically trained to have their firearms in a quick position to be drawn - not to consistently have it pointed at civilians that have not been proven guilty of anything, and are not a proven threat. The reason I brought up this experience for you, is to ask your opinion as to when it becomes okay to assume malice over innocence, to the point where one puts even children, in our case for holding a single paper-bag, into immediate danger.

#2 I know he could/can get into trouble for that. But this thread is about asking you your opinion as to how certain behaviour through cops, influences both their actions, and how civilians perceive them. The fact is, cops are in a position of power, and as presented in this example, this power can even lead to that power being abused in the most trivial of scenarios. But, I could be wrong - maybe in this case, his actions were the exception... not the rule.

#3 I should have clarified - I do not really want your opinion on the custody business itself, as that would require a lot of personal information that I am not going to share with strangers. Essentially, all of that information that I did provide, was a lead-up to my experience with the female cop that refused to act in a professional and non-biased manner, when she was called out there to act as a mediator, and was supposed to be there, neutrally, only to make sure that nothing became a disturbance. Not to actually pick sides and blatantly threaten/harass the party she found herself biased against.

1. Again, I don't (and you can't) know his mindset or what he was expecting, so it's hard to understand why he acted the way he did. Police are trained to always look for malice, with the population being divided into three parts: 1. The cooperative 2. The hostile and 3. The potentially or latent hostile. This third group is the most dangerous, due to their unpredictability.

2. Police are people too. If they can justify their behavior on the basis of their own morality and professional expectations, then they will. If you're specifically referring to the officer calling you as a heads up, this is no different than the neighbor leaning out the window and yelling that they just called the police so you better leave. It's not corruption, unless you believe that confronting children riding a lawnmower and probably ticketing you/impounding the mower is a necessary part of a functioning society.

3. Some people are just dicks. I don't know why an officer was called to mediate a custody dispute, as that isn't their job. Their job is supposed to be to make sure nobody takes a swing at anyone. File a complaint if she was unprofessional.

 

[Qizx]

Most people don't get shot by police. They say that police aren't courteous or polite or pleasant to be around, which varies from individual to individual. No definition of asshole includes randomly shooting people. That would be more "psychopath" or "spree killer".

Addressing that point, it's incredibly rare for an officer in this day and age in the United States to go shoot somebody for "next to no reason" and I can't find evidence of one, in recent history, who shot a man "because they're black".

If you want me to, I can PM several stories where police officers are caught harassing and sometimes tasing minorities while bragging about it, or doing it for shits and giggles. They aren't fun reads.

Something that has always irked me is when a cop does something bad or is corrupt the media is there to cover it and generalize all cops as bad. Yet when a cop does something good the media pretty much ignores it and says that a cop was just doing their job. The story about the cop that was killed inside the GameStop stopping a robbery is one such instance. I saw maybe one or two news stories on it and that was it.

Even if he was just doing his job the man went above and beyond giving his life to stop a crime.

I found it a shame that not that many people were focusing on the story. It is a shame. It's actually a horrible shame. Like everyone, there are people who do what they do because they believe in it, and people who do what they do because they can get something from it. Officer Wilson does remind us that there are many cops who do the first. And we are simultaneously lessened by his loss and strengthened to remember there are police officers out there like this.

But there is a flip side.

As a minority who is 'acceptable' (speak proper english, educated, affable), and because of my jobs and former interests (Personal Trainer and was thinking about becoming an NYPD), cops have opened up to me. And some stand by racial profiling. It works, they claim. Many will have to suffer for a few, because while I'm sure they do arrest a lot of minorities, they are not arresting all those minorities because all are not committing these crimes.

But it's somehow wrong of me to see this out pouring of a handful of cops doing something wrong and having been unfairly harassed in the past... it's wrong for me to be afraid of cops? How is what I'm doing any different from what they are doing? The only difference is, still the majority of people will believe the officer above my word. I'm just another one lying.

And therein lies my OT to this thread.

Everything is populated with humans.

some are good, some are bad, some are blank. That's the way life is.

But no one is given as much Laissez Faire power as the United States Police. Yesterday I saw two local politicians go down for bribery and misconduct. Swift turn over, too. A few months. Teachers aren't given the benefit of the doubt. You find texts about students, they go down. The entire education board will review conduct between teachers and students to make sure the parents feel safe. Plane crashes? Delve deep into the pilot's life, show how they were damaged here and there, offer apologizes and make sure you give a lot of clap trap that this will never happen again.

Each month for the past... I almost want to say year and a half.. we get new videos about improper use of power, abuse, and misconduct. Outright lies that these videos now show conflict. The 'some bad apples' argument doesn't soothe anyone because the question becomes "What if I run into a bad apple?"

Do I sit there and get beat and hope I survive... for what? No one's going to believe me. Hell, I might get resisting arrest because I covered my face.

There are tons of reports that completely conflict with what the authorities are saying. From the New Jersey Man last year who Beat in the face while his hands were up, all the while the police officer yelled "Stop Reaching for my Gun!". The big names like Tamir Rice where the cops made the 12 year old out to be a 23 year old man who refused repeated requests to put the gun down. Police grilling John Crawford III's girlfriend on why he had a gun in the store even though they already saw it was a airsoft toy gun... trying to make her say that he really did have a gun so it could be a justifiable shoot.

By the way, John Crawford III's death happened in Ohio. It's an Open Carry State. You don't need a license to own one. In fact, around 40 people went to that same Wal Mart carrying rifles. There was literally no reason for Crawford's death. No one held the police accountable.

And that's where it gets bad.

Citizens Allow Cops To Do This.

Through their own biases, believing the best about cops... time and time again, Cops commit 'accidents' and are let go by us. No one wants police to stop doing their jobs. They just want to either cut the needless lethality or at least when mistakes happen, they are treated like everyone else and held accountable for their actions. Not protected by the Blue Line that's just supposed to police, not make people untouchable and unaccountable.

Listen, I sound like a cop hater. I'm a cop fearer. I said before I was going to be NYPD. I didn't continue my NYPD registration after my call back because that month I found out that my ex Martial Artist teacher's father was killed by a police officer. The local news made it sound like he was a crazy man that came at him with a hatchet. When the true story came out, things we redacted and the officers were still let go.

It's hard to put your trust in people when you know your life will never matter as much as their word.

Holy mother of this.
You literally described my biggest problem with police, the lack of accountability. I get it, there will be bad apples, there will be evil cops, you just can't stop it, what pisses me off to NO END, is that they fucking get away with it. If my father made a misdiagnosis of a patient and the patient died because of it, you bet your ass he'd be under MASSIVE scrutiny, even if it was a completely unidentifiable issue. A cop shoots a guy? It's the guys fault. A person gets beaten by cops? He must have had it coming. The fact that the office stands behind clearly bad apples is what makes us think they're all bad apples.

 

[DerangedHobo]

So you wanted to know why cops are such assholes?

I assumed it was because of the following factors:
A. They are average people put into positions of power (positions which have been shown to be easily exploitable because, in America especially, the police department will sweep things under the rug)

B. The 'Us vs Them' mentality. It seems (from my armchair position) that police officers are trained to fear the citizenry. Also the feeling of empowerment that I imagine comes along with being an 'officer of the law', a position which has shown to be held above the average citizen.

C. Cops upholding/enforcing questionable laws as well as the unethical methods of enforcements. This is anything from no-knock warrants to coercion and intimidation practices that are seemingly wide spread. (good cop bad cop anyone?)

D. As with the 'Us vs Them' thing and as said before in this thread, cops (and many components of the legal system) haven't be criminals themselves. Now I'm not saying that you should let Mr. Stab Fiend become a cop but I'm sure a judge which has seen both sides of the law (or perhaps harassed by the law themselves) can make fairer judgements and be less prone to a sense of moral superiority than a judge who hasn't.

 

[Ragnoon]

I am a motoring enthusiast, I particularly enjoy riding my motorbike. Here in Australia, like many places in the world, bikers are normally classified as criminals and should be treated like one regardless of what their actually intention is(I can't speak for everyone). I have been pulled over so many time from the police with them saying I am a danger to other road users ( I am responsible on public roads) or my bike has illegal mods and is un-roadworthy (which it's not).

My experience hasn't been great, doesn't mean that all police are bad, but I unfortunately don't have respect for people who can't treat me with some common courtesy, that applies for all people I meet. Then again who is going to police the police for such behaviour?.

My response is going to have a few assumptions, as I'm not familiar with Australian policing. 1.) The IA division of your local police (see, I'm assuming police aren't nationalized). 2.) The community.

If police are not doing their job effectively, whether through harassment or ignorance of transportation laws, that needs reporting so the officer can be made to learn what they're ignorant of, or fired for being bad at their job.

That is true, however no matter how many times the police have been told they still try to find a loophole to squeeze some extra revenue out of us. Recently a cop pulled over a friend and fined him for not having an australian compliant sticker on his visor. It went to court and it was explained that the sticker is on a removable plastic film when new but has to be removed so you can actually see. The police do an important job, it's when they start abusing the powers given to them is when the resentment starts.

on another note, i'm glad we don't have police that are so trigger itchy like in 'MURICA!, I don't fancy getting shot over a minor discrepancy.