Socialized Health Care

[historybuff]

Just curious about what other people think about it--want to learn a bit more about the world today.

I live in the United States and President Obama is pushing for this. Personally, I think it sounds kind of awesome. I know there's a stereotype running around that Americans are terrified of anything socialist--but I certainly wouldn't be adverse to it. I'm putting myself through college and I can't afford health insurance.

So I guess what I'd like to see is--maybe some opinions from others in the USA and--also--people in other countries that have socialized health care--what are pros and cons about it? What do you love about it? What do you hate about it? What kind of things does the government actually cover?

 

[Gooble]

I'm assuming what you're talking about is raising taxes to provide free healthcare for all.

My experience with the NHS is that it certainly isn't bad-it's not the best but it's of pretty decent quality. Waiting in A and E can take a fair while (i.e. hours), the food isn't the best but depending on what you're having isn't terrible (though some of it is), but apart from those 2 things it's not bad at all.

But I think the main thing you have to remember is that they are very good at getting you better/fixed/treated. It's by no means an enjoyable stay (ignoring your ailment here-of course that's going to suck) but then it's not meant to be a hotel. And if they did try to improve the quality of the service then I suspect treatment would suffer.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I've experienced private healthcare. It was crap. The doctors were apathetic, the nurses robotic, and they tried to prescribe me antibiotics to clear up a few spots. No wonder MRSA is spreading.

I also experienced the NHS. The hospitals were as clean, but less cheerful-looking, the standard of care was better and the waiting times were the same. Oh, and I didn't have to pay.

In summation, I like the NHS.

 

[BonsaiK]

Socialised health care is brilliant. Most developed countries have it. It subsidises all sorts of things, it means that even poor people can get medicine and general health care at a rate that is at least within reach. There is still private health care for the rich if you want the extra quality of service (although that quality is debateable, it depends where you go).

In Australia, if you are thinking of going to the USA, the travel agents will actually tell you straight up "whatever you do do not get sick, and if you do get sick come home first, THEN get treatment if possible". People in the USA don't realise how shockingly bad their health care services are, and have been for a long time... Obama is doing you a good turn here, go with it.

 

[Khedive Rex]

I'm the sort of person who anticipates that, when the government attempts to do something important, it will typically do it badly.

By the same token, I'm also of the opinion that big business typically don't try to do important things and when they are forced, they do it badly.

Small business on the other hand don't have the resources and man power to accomplish anything very important so what they do to try and accomplish important things, they do badly.

I would love to be medically insured but I honestly don't see it happening in a satisfactory way no matter what the government or private enterprise decide to do. Call me cynical but right now my plan is not to get sick. Fortunately I'm pretty young and don't really need health care.

As for my opinion of the Obama plan, I'm in support of it. I don't know if it'll work but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Mad Maniac with axe-firing chainsaw]

I'm very relieved the NHS is around. The health care system is standardised, free, and you don't have to get greeted with a huge bill coming out of A and E. Yes, it raises taxes, but I'm quite happy to pay for some poor shmucks medical bills along with the rest of the country if it saves his/her life.

 

[KSarty]

I've experienced private healthcare. It was crap. The doctors were apathetic, the nurses robotic, and they tried to prescribe me antibiotics to clear up a few spots. No wonder MRSA is spreading.

I also experienced the NHS. The hospitals were as clean, but less cheerful-looking, the standard of care was better and the waiting times were the same. Oh, and I didn't have to pay.

In summation, I like the NHS.

Socialized health care isn't going to make doctors care more or make nurses friendlier.

I'm not for NHS at all, but I argued this to death in another thread here not too long ago so I will summarize my opinion and I will leave it at that. NHS will end up being abused just like every other form of social financial assistance program such as welfare and social security. The end result will be that middle/upper-class citizens will end up paying for the health care of millions of people who do not deserve that charity to begin with. I'm sick of giving the government a blank-check and just expecting that they will do what is best for us, and that all this will end up being, again.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I've experienced private healthcare. It was crap. The doctors were apathetic, the nurses robotic, and they tried to prescribe me antibiotics to clear up a few spots. No wonder MRSA is spreading.

I also experienced the NHS. The hospitals were as clean, but less cheerful-looking, the standard of care was better and the waiting times were the same. Oh, and I didn't have to pay.

In summation, I like the NHS.

Socialized health care isn't going to make doctors care more or make nurses friendlier.

I'm not for NHS at all, but I argued this to death in another thread here not too long ago so I will summarize my opinion and I will leave it at that. NHS will end up being abused just like every other form of social financial assistance program such as welfare and social security. The end result will be that middle/upper-class citizens will end up paying for the health care of millions of people who do not deserve that charity to begin with. I'm sick of giving the government a blank-check and just expecting that they will do what is best for us, and that all this will end up being, again.

1. No, but it might not make them feel so damned crushed every time some poor fucker cops it because their insurance company wouldn't cough up for them.

2. How? It's not as if you can abuse it, as either A) You are sick, and should be treat, or B) You are not sick, and will be turfed back onto the street.

3. Millions of people who don't deserve - What, the fuck, man? Why? Is it because they are poor? Does that make them inferior? Casting aside such tedious things as morality, basic humanity, so on and so forth*, the fact remains that the vast majority of people in this country, even those on low wages, will have put into the system far more than they will get out. Do you know where that money goes? Not all of it goes to wasters, druggies and scum. A lot of it, indeed, most of it, goes to the truly misfortunate. People like you or me, who are struck down with cancer, or autoimmune diseases, or any number of incalcuable horrible afflications. They, are the misfortunate few whom a great amount of money is spent on. And I would say that most people would quite happily pay their taxes in full knowledge that such unfortunates will recieve care and treatment despite their misfortune.

*Do not have the gall to proclaim yourself Christian if you believe people should die for being poor - which, in essence, you are arguing for.

 

[Zacharine]

In my country (Finland) there is such a system already in place.

While waiting times can during certain days and/or at certain clinics/hospitals get a tad long, the care is extremely cheap, professional and throughout. Queus for operations are far too long, but that's not an inherent problem of the system but rather a multitude of surgeons working simultaneuosly both for the public and private healthcare. And since they get paid double-triple for private operations, publics operations tend to suffer a bit.

Private healthcare has remained a good possibility for those wealthy enough to take advantage of it and while the interiors and quality of service along with shorter waiting times for both normal doctor visit and surgery are shorter, the cost for the patient is easily 10-20x that of public heathcare.

A case in point for public healthcare: I had an Erysipelas, a dermal bacterial infection. It was saturday morning, went to the public hospital to complain fever and an unnaturally stiff and inflamed ankle. Two hours later I'm at the doctor, she takes a look at me, diagnoses me correctly within 3 minutes and orders tests along with treatmeant. I stayed overnight to receive the required dosage of IV antibiotics. Next day, receipe for pill antibiotics and a bye bye later I'm sent home with instructions and the direct phone number to the doctor in case of a sudden emergency.

Including the pills I bought from the apothecary and bus fares, I paid a total of 40e for my treatment.

40e for a visit to the doctor, blood tests, an overnight stay at a hospital, 3 bags of IV fluid and antibiotics, a weeks worth of pills and public transportation.

And the best thing: There is a roof to the expenses one can accumulate during a single year from a doctor: 50e. I had peid close to 30e of that from a single visit, so the next visit would have been even cheaper and the third one completely free (including only doctor's fees, tests and emergency treatment, but still...)

 

[KSarty]

I've experienced private healthcare. It was crap. The doctors were apathetic, the nurses robotic, and they tried to prescribe me antibiotics to clear up a few spots. No wonder MRSA is spreading.

I also experienced the NHS. The hospitals were as clean, but less cheerful-looking, the standard of care was better and the waiting times were the same. Oh, and I didn't have to pay.

In summation, I like the NHS.

Socialized health care isn't going to make doctors care more or make nurses friendlier.

I'm not for NHS at all, but I argued this to death in another thread here not too long ago so I will summarize my opinion and I will leave it at that. NHS will end up being abused just like every other form of social financial assistance program such as welfare and social security. The end result will be that middle/upper-class citizens will end up paying for the health care of millions of people who do not deserve that charity to begin with. I'm sick of giving the government a blank-check and just expecting that they will do what is best for us, and that all this will end up being, again.

1. No, but it might not make them feel so damned crushed every time some poor fucker cops it because their insurance company wouldn't cough up for them.

2. How? It's not as if you can abuse it, as either A) You are sick, and should be treat, or B) You are not sick, and will be turfed back onto the street.

3. Millions of people who don't deserve - What, the fuck, man? Why? Is it because they are poor? Does that make them inferior? Casting aside such tedious things as morality, basic humanity, so on and so forth*, the fact remains that the vast majority of people in this country, even those on low wages, will have put into the system far more than they will get out. Do you know where that money goes? Not all of it goes to wasters, druggies and scum. A lot of it, indeed, most of it, goes to the truly misfortunate. People like you or me, who are struck down with cancer, or autoimmune diseases, or any number of incalcuable horrible afflications. They, are the misfortunate few whom a great amount of money is spent on. And I would say that most people would quite happily pay their taxes in full knowledge that such unfortunates will recieve care and treatment despite their misfortune.

You don't understand what I meant by abuse obviously. What I meant by that is that there will be people who claim that they are poor, and they really aren't. They will get welfare checks, they will have reduced taxes, and they will receive the national health care without paying the taxes into it like they should be. The people who don't deserve aren't the ones who are poor, they are the ones that make it look like they are poor. It happens all the time. Welfare and social security are already in serious trouble because of assholes like this and it will happen again with NHS, I guarantee it.

Regardless, my other point of giving the government a blank check still stands. I don't understand why so many people want the federal government to just run their lives for them.

*Do not have the gall to proclaim yourself Christian if you believe people should die for being poor - which, in essence, you are arguing for.

I don't know where this came from and I don't really know how to respond to it other than "chill the fuck out".

 

[Biek]

The Netherlands has collective health insurance and its great. Though the price has been going up over the years, its a good thing to know you wont bankrupt yourself or your family, or be left to die on the street if you get sick injured.

I cant complain about waiting times either, my last injury worthy of a doctors attention took me 8 minutes of waiting in an empty lobby. But I hear thats been a real problem in Canada. I dont know why.

It sure beats having to pay around 800 dollars a month in order to insure your family of healthcare. (Im speaking on behalf of a friend who lives in Texas with his wife and children.) Though it could be different elsewhere.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I personally love the idea of NHS unfortunately I live in America and anything with the term Socialist makes people hide under their beds and curse. I mean as an Authoritarian I see how the State must take care of its own citizenry otherwise what good is the State? No State is worth supporting that won't take care of the basic needs of its citizenry let alone the dregs of its society. A Society should always be based on how it takes care of its weakest members and in regards to the United States we fail at that. This is one of the biggest reasons I am looking at immigrating that and our Education system blows.

 

[Clairaudient]

Take a good long look at this article. I feel it sums up the pros and cons of each side in a fair way.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

Article Sampler

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn't when everybody is covered.

**

I've lived in Canada all my life, and sure you have to wait a while if your condition is not really pressing (common cold or flu) but if you've on the verge death then you're suddenly first in line.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Let me put it this way you can rest with the assurance that if your ever run over, stabbed or terminaly Ill you wont go without treatment and you will not leave your family or yourself in debt. The British NHS isnt without its faults but its one of the best things about living here and it works at the end of the day, it's something our entire nation is very proud about with good reason.

 

[KSarty]

I personally love the idea of NHS unfortunately I live in America and anything with the term Socialist makes people hide under their beds and curse. I mean as an Authoritarian I see how the State must take care of its own citizenry otherwise what good is the State? No State is worth supporting that won't take care of the basic needs of its citizenry let alone the dregs of its society. A Society should always be based on how it takes care of its weakest members and in regards to the United States we fail at that. This is one of the biggest reasons I am looking at immigrating that and our Education system blows.

Thats my biggest problem with the idea. Its not just a knee-jerk reaction to the word socialism. I don't trust our government with what they already have control over, why would we want to give them more control?

 

[Zamn]

It's actually slightly incredible that the United States doesn't already have a public health service, I can't think of any other developed country that doesn't have it, and I can think of many developing countries that do have it. That the richest country in the world can't provide this kind of service in 2009 is pretty astonishing.

On a different note, a lot of the responses here refer to the NHS which is actually one of the poorest and most underfunded health services in Europe. Better models of public health services would be countries like France and Sweden.

 

[Nmil-ek]

I personally love the idea of NHS unfortunately I live in America and anything with the term Socialist makes people hide under their beds and curse. I mean as an Authoritarian I see how the State must take care of its own citizenry otherwise what good is the State? No State is worth supporting that won't take care of the basic needs of its citizenry let alone the dregs of its society. A Society should always be based on how it takes care of its weakest members and in regards to the United States we fail at that. This is one of the biggest reasons I am looking at immigrating that and our Education system blows.

Thats my biggest problem with the idea. Its not just a knee-jerk reaction to the word socialism. I don't trust our government with what they already have control over, why would we want to give them more control?

Thats something the American citizenry needs to fix on its own, government workers are civil servants and NOTHING more and you need to remind them of that be it the congressmen or whatever they are on the same level as garbagemen they work for you not the other way around.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I personally love the idea of NHS unfortunately I live in America and anything with the term Socialist makes people hide under their beds and curse. I mean as an Authoritarian I see how the State must take care of its own citizenry otherwise what good is the State? No State is worth supporting that won't take care of the basic needs of its citizenry let alone the dregs of its society. A Society should always be based on how it takes care of its weakest members and in regards to the United States we fail at that. This is one of the biggest reasons I am looking at immigrating that and our Education system blows.

Thats my biggest problem with the idea. Its not just a knee-jerk reaction to the word socialism. I don't trust our government with what they already have control over, why would we want to give them more control?

This is typical colonial backwards thinking and this is what is destroying our nation.

 

[photog212]

Health care is a basic human right not a privilege for the affluent.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Health care is a basic human right not a privilege for the affluent.

Except if you believe Fox News. I have heard a lot and I mean a LOT of American "journalists" say that Health Care is a privilege and this behavior has carried on and become accepted by more then enough in America. It is pretty disgusting.