societal conventions you hate

[Farseer Lolotea]

So while there is an inconsistency between feminism and chivalry, feminists don't want chivalry, but politeness. There is no inconsistency between feminism and politeness.

Bingo. I'm not sure why more people don't get this.

[Remainder of post redacted. Mind your manners, Lolotea!]

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Okay, I'd deliberately pulled that response. Looks like someone decided to jump on it anyway.

As for the "being rude doesn't make you right" bit, I managed to be both right and rude. They're independent and not mutually exclusive. Nice try though sister.

Only if by "right" you mean blatantly disingenuous on some topics and outright dismissive on others. But nice try yourself.

And there was more aggression in that last post of yours than in at least the last two of hers.

 

[Catchy Slogan]

Wearing jeans!

Jeans are boring and..... boring. That's all I've got. But I will never wear jeans as long as I have my strength!

May I refer you to the post you made in Nerdishness in Public.

Spoiler

I wear my Tennant trenchcoat in public with no shame

I'm fairly sure that is you, wearing jeans or a jean like substance.

I call Shenanigans! ;P

Either that or I'm really confused.

 

[foolishnun]

Debt, taxes, the sole idea that i have to give money to someone else.

Surely if your in debt then someone has already given money to you?

And taxes? do you like healthcare, schools, infastructure, roads, rubbish collection, etc? Assuming you do, you're gonna have to live with it.

 

[TimeLord]

Wearing jeans!

Jeans are boring and..... boring. That's all I've got. But I will never wear jeans as long as I have my strength!

May I refer you to the post you made in Nerdishness in Public.

Spoiler

I wear my Tennant trenchcoat in public with no shame

I'm fairly sure that is you, wearing jeans or a jean like substance.

I call Shenanigans! ;P

Either that or I'm really confused.

Nope. That's me wearing combats

 

[Catchy Slogan]

*snip*

Nope. That's me wearing combats

Damn. Thought I had you there. I'll get you next time, TimeLord!

 

[CosmicCommander]

- capitalism / greed

I see you're unique- like the other several million who read Noam Chompsky.

This leads me onto a point- Socialist, or Keynesian thought being in the mainstream in academia. I like how the professors peddling it have almost no real world experience, and usually deduct credits from students who contradict them.[footnote]Indoctrinate U- watch it now[/footnote]

Also, how every person I know seems to be "ironic" and "modern" for the sake of it.

Also, how half of women are promiscuous whores, and half of said whores come up with some high-brow, contrived, supposedly "intellectual" bullshit to back them up.

 

[Vault101]

Deceptive Marketing: Food ads should show the product as is it in reality. 80% of game advertising should have to be actual gameplay footage. Clothing should be marketed to the fit and obese alike, etc.

Bias media practices: Why do I have to watch 6 different news stations from different countries on the same topic in order to get a relatively clear picture on the reality of a situation?

Societal Expectations: Why are you only successful in life if you have a well paying job and own a lot of things? Why does your opinions and actions suddenly weigh more? "I always wondered in court why it is because a woman is a prostitute, she has to have bad eyesight" JFK.

- Demonized Nudity
- Laws based on religious beliefs such as those surrounding what constitutes marriage

not nessicarly in regards to game footage

I dont mind them showing off the story thats not a bad thing,


and really its kind of redundant

1. you want game footage youtube/any other game site is a millisecond away

2. hardly anyone buys games on a whim anyway you'll prbably already know the genre and the series and youll probably look up a reveiw or SOMTHING

3.if you bought say dead island or Deus ex 3 only after watching the trailers and decided you didnt like it because of the gameplay....then your an idiot

4. this was somthing on an issue say PS1 era where they would show footage of the cutscenes and FMV and make it out to be actualy gameplay (kinda) but yeah cut scenes are part of the game engine thease days so its not so much an issue

 

[MyFooThurTS]

Spoiler

snip

It's cute when people don't understand any of the things they talk about and then accuse others of being morons.

You assume 'acting like men' is intrinsic. It's not, and you need to learn what the word gender means. Unless you're the worst gay man in the world I assume you've managed to have a functional sexual relationship with another man without having some kind of screaming identity crisis about violating your own masculinity. The term 'acting like a man' is completely meaningless, because there are very few behaviours, none of which can be acceptably done in public, which inherently signify a male position without any kind of social interpretation.

Misandry does not mean what you think. It is not based on a hatred of 'male behaviours', but an essential position that all men perform male behaviours to the detriment of women. Misandrists don't generally go into a raging fit whenever they see a woman in a trouser suit or drinking beer. It is also not the same thing as misogyny because the genders are differentially positioned. This is fucking basic stuff.

The stereotypical misogynist doesn't exist. You're utterly assuming the existence of such a thing despite the complete absence of such in any kind of visual and material culture. Misogyny is not a school of thought, a belief or a conviction. It is almost never used in those terms except in a few extreme and unambiguous cases. Misogyny is a subtext which runs across a wide range of social formations and organizations. Also, if there was such a stereotype you've got it utterly wrong. Misogynists love 'female' behaviours in the traditional sense, because those behaviours generally keep women well confined and controlled within the domestic sphere.

You sit there and whine about how men aren't allowed to be men. What the fuck are you even talking about. If you expect there not to be social consequences for behaving in a certain way because that's 'what men do' then you can fuck right off. If a woman decides that getting married is her duty and she should sit at home squirting out babies because that's what being a woman means, sure, maybe she can, but do you think that doesn't position her or colour the way in which people react to her.

Point one. Drinking beer is not intrinsic to masculinity. Liking cars is not intrinsic to masculinity. Fighting is not intrinsic to masculinity. The world is full of men who don't do these things. You talk about wanting to do what you want, but what you actually want is for everyone to share your conception of what you are and to grant you exemptions from social critique based on that. No, of course they fucking won't. It's the 21st century and you have to take some responsibility for yourself, not sitting there whining about what a man is meant to do and insulting your entire sex in the process. You're allowed to be more complicated than that, and you're deliberately choosing not to be and expecting everyone else to do the same or else they might be 'feminine', forgive me if I'm not impressed.

Point two. 'Being a man' is not something you do on your own. If it was, the fact that women didn't like you 'being a man' wouldn't matter. Being a man only matters if there are women around who share that conception and value it. You're not just asking for the right to 'be a man' in the terms you describe, you're saying that women have an obligation to accept and value that. There is an unspoken assumption of superiority inherent in the state of being a man. When men go to war, it is partly on the assumption of protecting women. When men fight, it is often explicitly or implicitly seen as a competition over who is most fit to possess women. Note the word 'possess' in that sentence. By positioning women in relation to the traits you describe, you also position a degree of power and ownership over them.

Or to be blunt, by essentializing traits you also essentialize the relationships between traits, which are fundamentally very unfair.

Acceptance of people as human beings vs. strategic essentialism of groups based on unequal positions. It's a simple fucking concept.

Herp derp. I honestly didnt think that statement needed sarcasm markers (tyranny of women? COME ON) but apparently it did.

Hyperbole, not sarcasm. Look them up.

Also, even if it was, sarcasm isn't meaningless.

I should probably let this go, doubly so as there's probably no one left in this thread, but, nevertheless, I'm going to bite.

I'll start by talking about things I didn't say;

Firstly, I don't think those stereotypes are accurate and nor do I think the counter-stereotype you offered (in regards to misogynists) is accurate.

Secondly, I never said that either gender should behave in a certain way; I was trying to raise awareness about the discrimination against men who 'act like men' versus their acceptance should they 'act like women' and versus the acceptance of the behavior of women whether it be socially masculine or feminine (I do not think your example of a female stereotype exists in anyone's mind).

Now, getting to it; 'acting like men' is intrinsic. Your genes play a role in your personality; we are not born blank slates. Very few people are naive enough to argue that the difference between the gender personalities is purely social. But nor is that entirely relevant.

I was saying two things; that behaviors are posited under social incompetence by their association with masculinity and that men are discouraged from masculine behaviors (whether or not they are only socially masculine) while women are entitled to act in such a manner without discrimination.
Now I am about to talk about cars and sports again. You can argue that they are not intrinsic to masculinity but, in the interests of keeping on topic, we'll say it's enough to say that they are certainly behaviors more often associated with masculinity. A passion for cars or for sports (in the spectator's context) is most often regarded with contempt, most often regarded as socially under-developed behavior, while a passion for mediums often associated with femininity (fashion, gossip) is most often perceived as synonymous with social competence.

Now, when a woman adopts 'masculine behavior' and when a man adopts 'feminine behavior' mainstream western society will never call into question the social competence of either of these people nor will it do so when a woman adheres to feminine behavior... but, should a man behave in a socially masculine way, they will be confronted with accusations of stupidity, accusations of social incompetence and accusations of barbarianism.

This social concern is an artifact of the tendency for modern idealism to receive media celebration. It is incredibly fashionable to occupy any position that you, in the past, would not have had the right to occupy. In point; it is more fashionable to be a person from an oppressed lineage - heterosexual white males are incredibly unfashionable. Being unfashionable changed, rather suddenly, in social perception, to being rude and to being disrespectful - naturally this lead to indignity amongst the accused, an indignity that was, in many cases, born of arrogance but, in many cases again, entirely justified.

Men are not always disrespected for 'masculine behavior' but they are, at least, encouraged towards more feminine behavior - to have 'a woman's touch' around the flat is one example.
Men are discouraged from acting 'like men' as doing so will present them as having failed to advance socially; as having failed to recognize the 'changing season' of tolerance towards women.

Women are respected; the fact that men can have full-blown arguments about cars and about football teams is not an impediment to this fact. Men, however, are respected only as long as they prove themselves to be one type of man and not another.

P.S. Sorry about the name-calling, buddy, I was just trying to arouse attention.

 

[Wuggy]

Plato in the 21st, in Finland, by the biggest newspaper around.

Wait what? I'm Finnish and have not heard of this. Do you have any more info about this, because you sparked my interest.

 

[zeldagirl]

OT: Men being confrontational and insecure about their masculinity/intelligence. Gets very frustrating dealing with some of my male friends who uphold this convention when they just got out of a heated debate(which they lost)...

The thing with this is that it is a circular event. The social convention of being 'masculine' exists, which means that men fear being considered in a negative light[footnote]Being non-masculine in and of itself isn't bad, but when it is considered a bad thing by society at large, then it becomes a bad thing simply because of the normal view[/footnote], which means they try and act manly all the time, a facade which includes demoralising non-masucline males[footnote]Because you can't ever be seen showing anything less than utter intolerance towards something that you shouldn't like[/footnote], which in turn makes other males act masculine to avoid social disapproval from wider society, which just continues the cycle.

So truthfully, I don't blame the men who act manly but actually are just putting on a mask (because it is entirely understandable), I blame the men who act 'manly' because they are actually just that kind of person (including the whole 'put down' side of it) and any women who help perpetuate this view (and the same applies in reverse for men perpetuating the 'weak wall-flower-slut' view of women).

In my opinion, the most attractive type of people are those who have empathy, integrity and confidence. I don't care if you like anime, gardening, cooking, weight-lifting, etc, as long as you are confident in who you are and understand (and express this understanding) that your likes, dislikes and views aren't necessarily better or worse than other people's. Honestly, guy or girl, if you have these attributes (which for me has always been grouped under 'honour'[footnote]Because I think these traits are honourable traits, not because I think these traits conform to an ideal of honour alternate to my own[/footnote]) then I will consider your happiness and well-being worth my time, no matter what views you hold or hobbies you have.

EDIT: OT: I hate the social restrictions on affectionate expression. I mean seriously, I love hugging and cuddling and what-not, and it frustrates me that I am so restricted in expressing ym affection towards my friennds due to the stupid sexual connotations associated with them. I mean really? I hug you, so I must want to stick my penis in you? That's just stupid. If I hug it is because I think you are a good person and I consider you to have an emotionally-centralised value in my life (friends and family for the most part).

I think this post is really spot on - well written, articulate, and just plain awesome.

 

[TelHybrid]

The hypocrisy of feminism ideology. It's hilarious how feminists function under the pretence of wanting equality, even though they just want female supremacy. Post-modern feminists make me laugh.

I'm also sick of Britain's binge drinking culture. It really makes the rest of us look bad. Moderation... is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Alcohol is meant to be a fun enhancer.

Street preachers annoy the hell out of me. I don't think it would go down so well if an Atheist went to the streets preaching that the idea of an invisible force that has some form of intelligence is ridiculous. Why should religious people be allowed to preach that we're a bunch of nasty sinners who are going to spend the afterlife in hell?

That brings me to my next point, organised religion. People just interpret the bible any way they see fit and use it to try to influence people, most of the time to feel like they're the worst person in the world. Funny how the teachings are meant to be based on tolerance and not being judgemental.

Keep religion in the church, and off our streets. It influences people in some of the most awful ways. This applies to atheists too, and of course the religion of science as well. Not science overall, just the elitists who preach that every single person with a sense of personal faith is an idiot.

 

[Shivarage]

Yeah, definitely. I mainly went because I didn't really know what else to do with myself, about half of my friends didn't go to uni, many didn't even go to school past 16 but they're all doing fine for themselves. It's a load of bum how much pressure schools put on people to go to uni and make 'em feel bad if they don't.

The UK's fees aren't too bad now, they're going to shoot up to about three times as much the year after next, though. I'm hoping I won't be affected 'cause I'm already on the course but I don't know if the fact I'm taking a sandwich year next year (the only year that I think will really help my job prospects) will keep me safe... Either way I'm going to owe the government about 20 grand by the end. ~_~

fuuuck, tell me about it... I decided against a job to focus on my education, I'm still unemployed because nobody advertises anymore and just hires the friends and family of staff...
The recruitment process of this country is a joke >_> I can't afford to volunteer but nobody is willing to give a chance without some connection (apparently nepotism results in a much more productive workforce cause the relationships are already there)

I could jump into uni while the fees are still relatively low... but what for? a piece of paper that doesn't even guarantee me a job at Lidls after paying far too much to univeristy staff for time I'm not getting?
I don't think any good can come of tripling university fees... it will only deter talented academics from getting the higher paid jobs so they wont ever have to pay for the loan

 

[Wuggy]

Not much, there was a freak out over a school shooting, the shooter was a big fan of Plato.

Oh yes, the Kauhajoki school shooting. I remember media bringing up Friedrich Nietzsche as an inspiration of his 'ideology' way more than Plato. Actually, I didn't even remember that Plato was one of his inspiring philosophers.

 

[DirtyMagic]

also JOHN LENNON WAS NOT THAT GREAT!!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!! o_0

I'm meltinggggg!!!

(PS: I do like John Lennon)

 

[bluewolf]

I hate it when some artist takes a can of paint, throws it on a blank sheet and sells it for a billion fucking dollars while people are starving to death around the world!

 

[Wuggy]

Not much, there was a freak out over a school shooting, the shooter was a big fan of Plato.

Oh yes, the Kauhajoki school shooting. I remember media bringing up Friedrich Nietzsche as an inspiration of his 'ideology' way more than Plato. Actually, I didn't even remember that Plato was one of his inspiring philosophers.

Might have been a different school shooter.

No, that was definitely him. I checked it just now.