Some questions about hypnosis?

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Hero in a half shell

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How realistic and plausible is Derren Brown's "hypnosis"
The way he manages to hypnotise people incredibly quickly, with a certain single movement or primed word.

Kinda like at the beginning of this video:

 

Cryptotom

Hypnotist and freelance layabout
Jun 10, 2010
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docSpitfire said:
Would it be akin to asking a drunk person to do stuff? (diminished inhibitions and all)
Or is the brain aware enough that it would avoid significant personal embarrassment?
What about personal hang-ups?

Basically, if you (or if this is a skill related issue, someone with more experience) were to hypnotize me, would you be able to get me to sing aloud more than 2 lines of a song?
In a way, yes. If you suggested that somebody would have reduced inhibitions then they would do. As I've said above though, alot depends on the subject in question. It also depends on te situation. For example, dring a stage hypnosis show there will be lots of people doing the same thing, so somebody will be morel likely to do something embarrassing if other people are too.
Could you define what yu mean by 'personal hang-ups'?

As I said above, if other people were doing it, probably yes. Music playing wouldn't hurt either.
 

Cryptotom

Hypnotist and freelance layabout
Jun 10, 2010
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HellRaid said:
How effective is hypnosis at breaking long-term bad habits? For example, if you had been chain smoking, nail biting or been an alcoholic almost non-stop for 20-odd years?
It is dependant on the person, but those sorts of habits are exactly the sort of things many hypnotherapists will be dealing with on a regular basis. Sometimes it can take a single session to break life-long habits.

spartan231490 said:
OT: How hard is it to do? are any people just immune?
It is a difficult thing to do, and it can be quite mentally draining in my experience, always choosing your words carefully. However, as you get more experience you start to go on a sort of auto-pilot, and just do things automatically, so like any other skill it becomes easier over time.

Nobody is immune per se but as I've said above, they have to believe in hypnosis and actually want to be hypnotized for it to work.
Hero in a half shell said:
How realistic and plausible is Derren Brown's "hypnosis"
The way he manages to hypnotise people incredibly quickly, with a certain single movement or primed word.
That is still a very real and very powerful form of induction. Rapid and Instant inductions can take only a few seconds to put a subject into a dep hypnotic state. Personally, I normally use progressive inductions, which are slower and the ones most people think of when they hear about hypnosis.

But in answer to your question, it's very real. The induction is different but the hypnosis is the same.
 

docSpitfire

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Jun 13, 2011
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Cryptotom said:
docSpitfire said:
Would it be akin to asking a drunk person to do stuff? (diminished inhibitions and all)
Or is the brain aware enough that it would avoid significant personal embarrassment?
What about personal hang-ups?

Basically, if you (or if this is a skill related issue, someone with more experience) were to hypnotize me, would you be able to get me to sing aloud more than 2 lines of a song?
In a way, yes. If you suggested that somebody would have reduced inhibitions then they would do. As I've said above though, alot depends on the subject in question. It also depends on te situation. For example, dring a stage hypnosis show there will be lots of people doing the same thing, so somebody will be morel likely to do something embarrassing if other people are too.
Could you define what yu mean by 'personal hang-ups'?

As I said above, if other people were doing it, probably yes. Music playing wouldn't hurt either.
Yeah for personal hang ups I was thinking things that people are particularly self-conscious about (i.e. me and singing)
I have in my entire life voluntarily sang aloud only once in front of anyone, and that was on my birthday this year several shots of alcohol were administered before this happened and I immediately stopped upon realizing there was anyone else in the room. Even in crowds, I'm always that kid who mumbles and mouths the words kind of. On the other hand i'm often perfectly willing to act like a fool in front of a crowd :p
 

Hugga_Bear

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To defend our hypnotist I'll put in that the effects go far beyond placebo. Now don't get me wrong placebo is stunning in it's own right but the extent of control coupled with the reactions of people under hypnosis means it's highly unlikely to be placebo, at least in my (and you know, all those pesky experts besides) considered opinion(s).

Curiously I was attending a group who were learning the beginnings of hypnotherapy today and had begun to hypnotise one another. Some tried it on me with no success, my mind doesn't work in quite the same way it appears which has led me to start working on a method that WILL work with me. It's complex but suffice to say that the commonly used methods rely on the inception of ideas (gods I hate that film) where you essentially try to convince them that it'd be a good idea to do it without telling them, however the wording commonly used and more so the attempt at manipulation truly grate on me and break any spell. It's possible to put me in a state of relaxation but the suggestion itself is useless, at least thus far.

I find it an interesting subject.
 

xdom125x

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Damn. I hate to be Captain Buzkill (trademark still pending) but here we go.

I am going to start this post with it's tl;dr version:
I don't think hypnosis is anything more than the placebo effect.

Cryptotom said:
AdeptaSororitas said:
Is it true you can only hypnotize those who are willing?
Yes it is. In order to hypnotize someone they must consent OR at the very least, not be against it. Using conversational hypnosis or instant inductions can work on people who haven't definitively made up their minds whether or not they would like to be hypnotized. Obviously the second approach can be considered a little less ethical.
If a hypnotist can only hypnotise somebody into doing something that they would consent to do outside of hypnotism, isn't it possible that the person is consciously making the choice to follow the hypnotist's instructions?

Also, doesn't the requirement of the cooperation of the person who is going to be hypnotised kind of throw hypnotism into doubt as a functioning thing? Because as was previously pointed out in this thread, it sounds pretty much exactly like the placebo effect.
Cryptotom said:
pffh said:
Cryptotom said:
pffh said:
How do you feel about working in a field that is essentially just working with the placebo effect?
It isn't just working with the placebo effect. Hypnosis allows you to communicate directly with a person's subconscious, and allows you to give the subconscious suggestions. If these suggestions are to the benefit of the person, or at least not detrimental, then the subconscious will act on them. Hypnosis is unique in what it is and it's potential, because there is no other form of treatment or therapy that can do that. Even a simple suggestion to a person's subconscious can profoundly affect that person's life for the better.
Ahem...

Cryptotom said:
Most importantly, in order for somebody to be hypnotized, they have to believe it will work. It's not black magic or voodoo or the hypnotoad or anything, it's a person talking another person into a different state of mind, so unless the subject is co-operative, it won't work well.
That's the placebo effect. Now I'm not saying that placebos are bad (around 30% success in optimal circumstances) and pharmacologist study and use the placebo effect quite often. It's quite amazing what the human body can do when it's convinced to do it (both bad and good things) but you didn´t answer my question.

Well, I admit it s something of a catch-22. Someone has to believe in hypnosis to be hypnotized. Yeah, it's kind of tricky.

I do agree that it holds similarities to a placebo in terms of the nature of it, but the actual act of hypnosis is a very real thing, as are the effects. Hypnosis can fundamentally change the way somebody feels or thinks about something (for the better) which can't be accomplished by a placebo (at least not to my knowledge). Yes, some of the effects of hypnosis could be accomplished by a placebo or any other kind of medicine.

It's difficult to explain, what I'm trying to say is that hypnosis and the effects of it are very real. I do see your point about a placebo, but I wouldn't describe it as one. As I said above, it is a naturally occuring state that happens to you in some small way every day. But for a hypnotist to...For want of better words, artificially induce a state of hypnosis, requires the subject's consent, and therefore their understanding and belief.

I hope that has answered your question.
Okay, so when it is naturally happening it can be easily argued to not be the placebo effect (although I still wouldn't call it hypnosis). However, if it is induced by a person, it falls squarely into the definition of the placebo effect because for it to be induced by another person, it requires your understanding and belief in it.

Cryptotom said:
PureChaos said:
how does it work?
Simply put, hypnosis is a naturally occuring state in the human mind. Ever found yourself looking for your toothbrush or phone and then found it right in your hand? That's a form of natural hypnosis.
I usually refer to that as "not paying attention" or a form of overthinking the problem, not necessarily hypnotism. Hell, that happens to me often, I start looking for my keys only to discover they are in my pocket. Better yet, I bet by that definition, I and others with A.D.D. and it's cousins could be argued to be under some form of hypnosis 24/7 (when not taking medication).

The actual act of hypnosis involves what's called an induction, whereby the hypnotist helps the subject enter of state of relaxation and suggestibility, which essentially allows the hypnotist to bypass the conscious part of somebody's brain and speak directly to the subconscious, which is what is normally considered to be a state of hypnosis.
-snip-
Really? According to that definition: hypnosis is the concept that "really calm people will follow instructions that they agree with, primarily if they agree to have the instructions told to them"? The italicized is a prerequisite of hypnosis as you previously pointed out (more specifically, in the first quote of yours that I quoted in this comment).


Also, just out of curiosity and a deep need to lighten the mood after all that:
Do hypnotist use metronomic rhythms when they are hypnotising people?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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spartan231490 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Would you kindly tell me whether or not a person can command others through the use of a word or phrase.
No, you can't be convinced to do something through hypnosis that you don't want to do, at least a little.

OT: How hard is it to do? are any people just immune?
Didn't get the Bioshock reference then...
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Cryptotom said:
Well hello there.

To start with I should explain that I'm a trained hypnotist, and I'm hoping to become certified to practice hypnotherapy within the next few years.

Now, hypnosis really is an amazing thing, whether you believe in it or not, but when you say 'hypnosis' a lot of people are stuck with the image of a bearded man swinging a pocket watch, or people acting like chickens (almost every time I tell people that I'm a hypnotist they ask if I have a pendulum or if I can turn them into a chicken. It's quite irritating.)

So, I was wondering, fellow Escapists, do you have any questions or anything you'd like to know about hypnosis? Because I'm happy to answer.
what are the benefits of hypnotism (such as medically,psychologically, hell even in warfare (getting an enemy to tell you where his base is, etc..)) and what specific field are you going to go into? (the amazing guy who goes around being hired out by people to do fun entertainment, or like i had said psychology,military,etc...)
 

HDi

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Cryptotom said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Would you kindly tell me whether or not a person can command others through the use of a word or phrase.
Through the use of a post-hypnotic trigger, yes, that is possible. In fact, a rather good example of this is Bioshock, if you know the story. If not, go and play it, it's pretty good.
Hey, did you actually pick up Daystar's reference here? Because you're reply makes it seem like you both got it and missed it and then coincidently referred to the game that he was alluding to with (or without) realising it.

Or maybe my tired brain isn't working too well.

But anyways... ummm... a 'friend of mine' has a couple of closely guarded secrets... nothing I (dammit - I mean 'he') am morally objected to, Just stuff that I'd really rather not have to deal with in my life as a social creature interacting with other social creatures...

so I guess my question is...

How safe are our secrets while we're under?
 

floppylobster

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I've always thought when I'm older I'm probably going to start blurting out my old secrets that could hurt a lot of people (and potentially me if they come out too soon). Under hypnosis would it be possible to get me to do that early even though I don't want to (but plan to, so am not entirely against it)?

Also would they have to specifically ask me something like to tell them things. i.e. If not prompted will a hypnotized person ever do anything of their own accord? Or do they only react to suggestion?

EDIT: I am not the 'friend' of the poster above. But I guess we have the same question).
 

Zeekar

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Cryptotom said:
Well hello there.

To start with I should explain that I'm a trained hypnotist, and I'm hoping to become certified to practice hypnotherapy within the next few years.

Now, hypnosis really is an amazing thing, whether you believe in it or not, but when you say 'hypnosis' a lot of people are stuck with the image of a bearded man swinging a pocket watch, or people acting like chickens (almost every time I tell people that I'm a hypnotist they ask if I have a pendulum or if I can turn them into a chicken. It's quite irritating.)

So, I was wondering, fellow Escapists, do you have any questions or anything you'd like to know about hypnosis? Because I'm happy to answer.
Do you ever hypnotize yourself?

If so, why?
 

Cryptotom

Hypnotist and freelance layabout
Jun 10, 2010
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xdom125x said:
Damn. I hate to be Captain Buzkill (trademark still pending) but here we go.

I am going to start this post with it's tl;dr version:
I don't think hypnosis is anything more than the placebo effect.

Cryptotom said:
AdeptaSororitas said:
Is it true you can only hypnotize those who are willing?
Yes it is. In order to hypnotize someone they must consent OR at the very least, not be against it. Using conversational hypnosis or instant inductions can work on people who haven't definitively made up their minds whether or not they would like to be hypnotized. Obviously the second approach can be considered a little less ethical.
If a hypnotist can only hypnotise somebody into doing something that they would consent to do outside of hypnotism, isn't it possible that the person is consciously making the choice to follow the hypnotist's instructions?

Also, doesn't the requirement of the cooperation of the person who is going to be hypnotised kind of throw hypnotism into doubt as a functioning thing? Because as was previously pointed out in this thread, it sounds pretty much exactly like the placebo effect.
Cryptotom said:
pffh said:
Cryptotom said:
pffh said:
How do you feel about working in a field that is essentially just working with the placebo effect?
It isn't just working with the placebo effect. Hypnosis allows you to communicate directly with a person's subconscious, and allows you to give the subconscious suggestions. If these suggestions are to the benefit of the person, or at least not detrimental, then the subconscious will act on them. Hypnosis is unique in what it is and it's potential, because there is no other form of treatment or therapy that can do that. Even a simple suggestion to a person's subconscious can profoundly affect that person's life for the better.
Ahem...

Cryptotom said:
Most importantly, in order for somebody to be hypnotized, they have to believe it will work. It's not black magic or voodoo or the hypnotoad or anything, it's a person talking another person into a different state of mind, so unless the subject is co-operative, it won't work well.
That's the placebo effect. Now I'm not saying that placebos are bad (around 30% success in optimal circumstances) and pharmacologist study and use the placebo effect quite often. It's quite amazing what the human body can do when it's convinced to do it (both bad and good things) but you didn´t answer my question.

Well, I admit it s something of a catch-22. Someone has to believe in hypnosis to be hypnotized. Yeah, it's kind of tricky.

I do agree that it holds similarities to a placebo in terms of the nature of it, but the actual act of hypnosis is a very real thing, as are the effects. Hypnosis can fundamentally change the way somebody feels or thinks about something (for the better) which can't be accomplished by a placebo (at least not to my knowledge). Yes, some of the effects of hypnosis could be accomplished by a placebo or any other kind of medicine.

It's difficult to explain, what I'm trying to say is that hypnosis and the effects of it are very real. I do see your point about a placebo, but I wouldn't describe it as one. As I said above, it is a naturally occuring state that happens to you in some small way every day. But for a hypnotist to...For want of better words, artificially induce a state of hypnosis, requires the subject's consent, and therefore their understanding and belief.

I hope that has answered your question.
Okay, so when it is naturally happening it can be easily argued to not be the placebo effect (although I still wouldn't call it hypnosis). However, if it is induced by a person, it falls squarely into the definition of the placebo effect because for it to be induced by another person, it requires your understanding and belief in it.

Cryptotom said:
PureChaos said:
how does it work?
Simply put, hypnosis is a naturally occuring state in the human mind. Ever found yourself looking for your toothbrush or phone and then found it right in your hand? That's a form of natural hypnosis.
I usually refer to that as "not paying attention" or a form of overthinking the problem, not necessarily hypnotism. Hell, that happens to me often, I start looking for my keys only to discover they are in my pocket. Better yet, I bet by that definition, I and others with A.D.D. and it's cousins could be argued to be under some form of hypnosis 24/7 (when not taking medication).

The actual act of hypnosis involves what's called an induction, whereby the hypnotist helps the subject enter of state of relaxation and suggestibility, which essentially allows the hypnotist to bypass the conscious part of somebody's brain and speak directly to the subconscious, which is what is normally considered to be a state of hypnosis.
-snip-
Really? According to that definition: hypnosis is the concept that "really calm people will follow instructions that they agree with, primarily if they agree to have the instructions told to them"? The italicized is a prerequisite of hypnosis as you previously pointed out (more specifically, in the first quote of yours that I quoted in this comment).


Also, just out of curiosity and a deep need to lighten the mood after all that:
Do hypnotist use metronomic rhythms when they are hypnotising people?
Whew...That's a lot...Ok, I'm going to try my best to go through this.

Firstly, subjects under hypnosis can be made to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily consent to doing if they were not under hypnosis, unless they have a strong objection. Regarding the subject making a conscious choice to follow the hypnotist's instructions, you've touched on an interesting point that differs from person to person. Some subjects will easily go into hypnosis and their conscious mind will take a back seat, while the subconscious mind interacts with the hypnotist. Conversely, some subjects don't let go of the conscious mind and are still...Well, conscious, while in hypnosis. I've hypnotized a few peopl who were in this situation. An important part of the subject consenting is letting things happen, that is to say, not resisting things just because they can.

Secondly, a subject just needs to understand hypnosis enough to believe in it. Hypnosis itself will occur with or without the subject's understanding. Really, the subject needs to know enough about it to just let it happen. I haven't really explained this yet, that's my mistake and I apologise.

The example I gave of naturally occuring hypnosis was just to give an idea of the sort of familiar things that hypnosis is like. While I do consider this a sort of 'waking hypnosis' I do completely understand your objections to that idea. I guess that one comes down to a difference of opinion.

"really calm people will follow instructions that they agree with, primarily if they agree to have the instructions told to them"?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. I didn't mean to infer that at any point, so I'm sorry if I did. Could you explain exactly what you mean? Although I will say that there are a lot of differences between relaxation/calmness and hypnosis. It's just that one helps the other to happen.

Finally, yes. Some hypnotists use metronomes during progressive inductions. It can be a very effective tool. Similarly, I know of a hypnotist who sometimes has his subjects focus on the hands of a clock.

gmaverick019 said:
Cryptotom said:
Well hello there.

To start with I should explain that I'm a trained hypnotist, and I'm hoping to become certified to practice hypnotherapy within the next few years.

Now, hypnosis really is an amazing thing, whether you believe in it or not, but when you say 'hypnosis' a lot of people are stuck with the image of a bearded man swinging a pocket watch, or people acting like chickens (almost every time I tell people that I'm a hypnotist they ask if I have a pendulum or if I can turn them into a chicken. It's quite irritating.)

So, I was wondering, fellow Escapists, do you have any questions or anything you'd like to know about hypnosis? Because I'm happy to answer.
what are the benefits of hypnotism (such as medically,psychologically, hell even in warfare (getting an enemy to tell you where his base is, etc..)) and what specific field are you going to go into? (the amazing guy who goes around being hired out by people to do fun entertainment, or like i had said psychology,military,etc...)
I've listed several of the benefits in earlier posts, and I'm looking to go into medical hypnosis. The 'amazing guy who goes around being hired out by people to do fun entertainment' would be a stage hypnotist. The skills are transferrable for the most part, but each job would require different skills as well. In terms of military use, I don't think hypnosis wouls be particularly helpful, but you never know. I do know that there have been some proposals regarding rehabilitating prisoners with hypnosis.
HDi said:
Cryptotom said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Would you kindly tell me whether or not a person can command others through the use of a word or phrase.
Through the use of a post-hypnotic trigger, yes, that is possible. In fact, a rather good example of this is Bioshock, if you know the story. If not, go and play it, it's pretty good.
Hey, did you actually pick up Daystar's reference here? Because you're reply makes it seem like you both got it and missed it and then coincidently referred to the game that he was alluding to with (or without) realising it.

Or maybe my tired brain isn't working too well.

But anyways... ummm... a 'friend of mine' has a couple of closely guarded secrets... nothing I (dammit - I mean 'he') am morally objected to, Just stuff that I'd really rather not have to deal with in my life as a social creature interacting with other social creatures...

so I guess my question is...

How safe are our secrets while we're under?
Huh...I actually didn't pick up on the reference but still mentioned Bioshock...Clever.

In answer, if they're secets that you really really don't want to come out,a hypnotist couldn't force them out of you. No ethical hypnotist should try and pry secrets from you anyway.
floppylobster said:
I've always thought when I'm older I'm probably going to start blurting out my old secrets that could hurt a lot of people (and potentially me if they come out too soon). Under hypnosis would it be possible to get me to do that early even though I don't want to (but plan to, so am not entirely against it)?

Also would they have to specifically ask me something like to tell them things. i.e. If not prompted will a hypnotized person ever do anything of their own accord? Or do they only react to suggestion?
I think I've covered the first part above.

For the second part, most likely you would need to be asked to do specific things. In some cases, subjects under hypnosis act of their own accord, but usually stop in favour of suggestions. In my experience however, subjects acting of their own accord without any direction is very uncommon, although some can be given vague suggestions and work well with those whereas oters will need very specific suggestions.
 

Cryptotom

Hypnotist and freelance layabout
Jun 10, 2010
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Zeekar said:
Cryptotom said:
Well hello there.

To start with I should explain that I'm a trained hypnotist, and I'm hoping to become certified to practice hypnotherapy within the next few years.

Now, hypnosis really is an amazing thing, whether you believe in it or not, but when you say 'hypnosis' a lot of people are stuck with the image of a bearded man swinging a pocket watch, or people acting like chickens (almost every time I tell people that I'm a hypnotist they ask if I have a pendulum or if I can turn them into a chicken. It's quite irritating.)

So, I was wondering, fellow Escapists, do you have any questions or anything you'd like to know about hypnosis? Because I'm happy to answer.
Do you ever hypnotize yourself?

If so, why?
As I've said somewhere before, I am still learning self-hypnosis, but people do use it to deal with stress and motivation etc.
 

HDi

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Aug 23, 2010
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I've always had a really hard time regulating my sleep patterns... doing regular stuff like work and university can get pretty difficult when you're awake for thirty hours at a time at least a couple of times a week.

so do you think hypnosis could help people sleep properly?
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
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Cryptotom said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Would you kindly tell me whether or not a person can command others through the use of a word or phrase.
Through the use of a post-hypnotic trigger, yes, that is possible. In fact, a rather good example of this is Bioshock, if you know the story. If not, go and play it, it's pretty good.
lol I'm pretty sure he's played Bioshock. Notice how he said: WOULD YOU KINDLY tell me whether....etc.
 

spartan231490

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Daystar Clarion said:
spartan231490 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Would you kindly tell me whether or not a person can command others through the use of a word or phrase.
No, you can't be convinced to do something through hypnosis that you don't want to do, at least a little.

OT: How hard is it to do? are any people just immune?
Didn't get the Bioshock reference then...
I got it. I just ignored it because I assumed you were really asking the question. and it was obvious.
 

Shakomaru

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May 18, 2011
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Soooo... Can you time travel? :33
On to the serious stuff now. How hard is it to learn self hypnosis, from what you've gotten through? and how would one go about doing so? just in case "my friend" wants me to tell him. Hint Hint.
 

xdom125x

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Dec 14, 2010
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Cryptotom said:
xdom125x said:
Damn. I hate to be Captain Buzkill (trademark still pending) but here we go.

I am going to start this post with it's tl;dr version:
I don't think hypnosis is anything more than the placebo effect.

Cryptotom said:
AdeptaSororitas said:
Is it true you can only hypnotize those who are willing?
Yes it is. In order to hypnotize someone they must consent OR at the very least, not be against it. Using conversational hypnosis or instant inductions can work on people who haven't definitively made up their minds whether or not they would like to be hypnotized. Obviously the second approach can be considered a little less ethical.
If a hypnotist can only hypnotise somebody into doing something that they would consent to do outside of hypnotism, isn't it possible that the person is consciously making the choice to follow the hypnotist's instructions?

Also, doesn't the requirement of the cooperation of the person who is going to be hypnotised kind of throw hypnotism into doubt as a functioning thing? Because as was previously pointed out in this thread, it sounds pretty much exactly like the placebo effect.
Cryptotom said:
pffh said:
Cryptotom said:
pffh said:
How do you feel about working in a field that is essentially just working with the placebo effect?
It isn't just working with the placebo effect. Hypnosis allows you to communicate directly with a person's subconscious, and allows you to give the subconscious suggestions. If these suggestions are to the benefit of the person, or at least not detrimental, then the subconscious will act on them. Hypnosis is unique in what it is and it's potential, because there is no other form of treatment or therapy that can do that. Even a simple suggestion to a person's subconscious can profoundly affect that person's life for the better.
Ahem...

Cryptotom said:
Most importantly, in order for somebody to be hypnotized, they have to believe it will work. It's not black magic or voodoo or the hypnotoad or anything, it's a person talking another person into a different state of mind, so unless the subject is co-operative, it won't work well.
That's the placebo effect. Now I'm not saying that placebos are bad (around 30% success in optimal circumstances) and pharmacologist study and use the placebo effect quite often. It's quite amazing what the human body can do when it's convinced to do it (both bad and good things) but you didn´t answer my question.
Well, I admit it s something of a catch-22. Someone has to believe in hypnosis to be hypnotized. Yeah, it's kind of tricky.

I do agree that it holds similarities to a placebo in terms of the nature of it, but the actual act of hypnosis is a very real thing, as are the effects. Hypnosis can fundamentally change the way somebody feels or thinks about something (for the better) which can't be accomplished by a placebo (at least not to my knowledge). Yes, some of the effects of hypnosis could be accomplished by a placebo or any other kind of medicine.

It's difficult to explain, what I'm trying to say is that hypnosis and the effects of it are very real. I do see your point about a placebo, but I wouldn't describe it as one. As I said above, it is a naturally occuring state that happens to you in some small way every day. But for a hypnotist to...For want of better words, artificially induce a state of hypnosis, requires the subject's consent, and therefore their understanding and belief.

I hope that has answered your question.
Okay, so when it is naturally happening it can be easily argued to not be the placebo effect (although I still wouldn't call it hypnosis). However, if it is induced by a person, it falls squarely into the definition of the placebo effect because for it to be induced by another person, it requires your understanding and belief in it.

Cryptotom said:
PureChaos said:
how does it work?
Simply put, hypnosis is a naturally occuring state in the human mind. Ever found yourself looking for your toothbrush or phone and then found it right in your hand? That's a form of natural hypnosis.
I usually refer to that as "not paying attention" or a form of overthinking the problem, not necessarily hypnotism. Hell, that happens to me often, I start looking for my keys only to discover they are in my pocket. Better yet, I bet by that definition, I and others with A.D.D. and it's cousins could be argued to be under some form of hypnosis 24/7 (when not taking medication).

The actual act of hypnosis involves what's called an induction, whereby the hypnotist helps the subject enter of state of relaxation and suggestibility, which essentially allows the hypnotist to bypass the conscious part of somebody's brain and speak directly to the subconscious, which is what is normally considered to be a state of hypnosis.
-snip-
Really? According to that definition: hypnosis is the concept that "really calm people will follow instructions that they agree with, primarily if they agree to have the instructions told to them"? The italicized is a prerequisite of hypnosis as you previously pointed out (more specifically, in the first quote of yours that I quoted in this comment).


Also, just out of curiosity and a deep need to lighten the mood after all that:
Do hypnotist use metronomic rhythms when they are hypnotising people?
Whew...That's a lot...Ok, I'm going to try my best to go through this.

Firstly, subjects under hypnosis can be made to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily consent to doing if they were not under hypnosis, unless they have a strong objection. Regarding the subject making a conscious choice to follow the hypnotist's instructions, you've touched on an interesting point that differs from person to person. Some subjects will easily go into hypnosis and their conscious mind will take a back seat, while the subconscious mind interacts with the hypnotist. Conversely, some subjects don't let go of the conscious mind and are still...Well, conscious, while in hypnosis. I've hypnotized a few peopl who were in this situation. An important part of the subject consenting is letting things happen, that is to say, not resisting things just because they can.

Secondly, a subject just needs to understand hypnosis enough to believe in it. Hypnosis itself will occur with or without the subject's understanding. Really, the subject needs to know enough about it to just let it happen. I haven't really explained this yet, that's my mistake and I apologise.

The example I gave of naturally occuring hypnosis was just to give an idea of the sort of familiar things that hypnosis is like. While I do consider this a sort of 'waking hypnosis' I do completely understand your objections to that idea. I guess that one comes down to a difference of opinion.

"really calm people will follow instructions that they agree with, primarily if they agree to have the instructions told to them"?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. I didn't mean to infer that at any point, so I'm sorry if I did. Could you explain exactly what you mean? Although I will say that there are a lot of differences between relaxation/calmness and hypnosis. It's just that one helps the other to happen.
If you have no major objections to following a certain order and there is an extremely limited pool of things that influence your choice (I was meaning really calm as in completely focused on the 1 thing at hand), you might follow it but it isn't a sure thing. Now, if you were in a situation where you chose for that other person to be giving you orders, you would be much more likely to follow that order because, well, you agreed to it.
I was thinking hypnotised= being made really calm. So my mistake.
Finally, yes. Some hypnotists use metronomes during progressive inductions. It can be a very effective tool. Similarly, I know of a hypnotist who sometimes has his subjects focus on the hands of a clock.
Okay. Thanks.
 

Cryptotom

Hypnotist and freelance layabout
Jun 10, 2010
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HDi said:
I've always had a really hard time regulating my sleep patterns... doing regular stuff like work and university can get pretty difficult when you're awake for thirty hours at a time at least a couple of times a week.

so do you think hypnosis could help people sleep properly?
Short answer, yes. Hypnosis is used to treat insomnia and other sleep disorders.

Shakomaru said:
Soooo... Can you time travel? :33
On to the serious stuff now. How hard is it to learn self hypnosis, from what you've gotten through? and how would one go about doing so? just in case "my friend" wants me to tell him. Hint Hint.
Personally I think that having a base in normal hypnosis is important to really get into it, but you can find all sorts of books or websites that can teach you.

Maziecat said:
Can you hypnotize me through the internet?
If so, will you?
Yes it is possible. That depends on why you would want me to.

xdom125x said:
If you have no major objections to following a certain order and there is an extremely limited pool of things that influence your choice (I was meaning really calm as in completely focused on the 1 thing at hand), you might follow it but it isn't a sure thing. Now, if you were in a situation where you chose for that other person to be giving you orders, you would be much more likely to follow that order because, well, you agreed to it.
I was thinking hypnotised= being made really calm. So my mistake.
Ah, I see what you mean. In a way, yes you're correct. But hypnosis can change very fundamental things about people, as I've said above, in ways that a person simply couldn't do themselves.

xdom125x said:
Okay. Thanks.
My pleasure.