Some thoughts about rape culture, rape humor, and sexual assault in general.

[Thaluikhain]

Do we have a rape culture in the West today?
I thought most rapes were committed by sociopaths and mentally scarred people who do it serially rather as something that just happens generally regardless of whom the person may be or what sex they are.

Unfortunately not. People worry more about the "jumped in dark alley by stranger" type rapes because they are a comforting kind of scary. 90+% of rapes in the west are committed by friends and family of the victim.

It is understandable to portray rapists are inhuman monsters, but by that reasoning, when it's someone that doesn't look like an inhuman monster, it's obviously not really rape.

In much of the west, up until very recently, a man couldn't be convicted with raping his wife. As in, if your father or perhaps grandfather had raped his wife, that would have been considered acceptable. Of course, things are different now, but the thinking which led to things like that hasn't fully disappeared.

Maybe it's because many people treat rapists even worse than murderers and even being accused of it is going to cause irreparable damage to their lives. I mean innocent until proven guilty doesn't really enter into most peoples minds when they read "Person X accused of rape" in a newspaper. I don't think people leaping to defend the people they love or admire is really a terrible thing, especially when it can really only be seen as disbelief that that person would commit something so heinous. If your Dad was accused or even convicted, would you really accept that he was a rapist?

Er...you're saying that people will assume suspects are guilty, so they assume they are innocent?

Certainly, there is a problem with people defending suspects, or even people known to be rapists...Steubenville comes to mind, endless blather about how terrible it was that the rapists were convicted of the rapes they have committed.

Certainly, people leaping to defend those they love or admire is understandable, but defending them regardless of whether or not they are guilty certainly is a terrible thing.

 

[Nickolai77]

If women were physically stronger then yes i think there would be more woman on male rapes- but that wouldn't go up by a huge amount. You need to switch male and female sexual behaviour as well as the whole culture and values surrounding masculinity and femininity to completely reverse the situation. I'm not entirely sure what use asking this question has really.

For physiological reasons (men can forcibly penetrate a woman, and are on average stronger) biological and cultural reasons it's obvious that more often than not most rapes are committed by men. If social and cultural attitudes are changed concerning male and female sexual interaction then i think the number of rapes can be cut dramatically, but i think it is unreasonable to expect the act to be entirely annihilated dramatically.

Don't forget the trouble with rape debates is that we're fixated on this notion of rapists lurking down dark alleys and ambushing women in the dark- when really such rapes are very very rare. There's a huge grey area concerning wherever getting drunk at a party and having a one night stand with a woman who wouldn't have consented if sober counts as rape. Or wherever sex in a relationship with elements of abuse counts as rape. People can be coerced into sexual acts by their peers for instance- is that rape?? Is it only rape if there is penetration? Or does oral sex count? When does groping become rape?? The trouble with rape debates is that we don't have a solid idea of what rape is.

 

[NearLifeExperience]

I really don't believe in 'rape culture'. People that rape others are pretty fucked up in the head, and I don't recall this being a norm anywhere.

 

[Daveman]

Er...you're saying that people will assume suspects are guilty, so they assume they are innocent?

No, I was really just saying that a lot more people leap onto the bandwagon of hating them. And often, despite them not getting convicted, they believe the people to still be guilty. They may indeed still be guilty but the point is Michael Jackson will always be a paedophile and OJ Simpson will always be a murderer even though they didn't get convicted for it. I'm fan of Red Dwarf, a British science fiction TV show, and one of the stars, Craig Charles, was accused of rape. He went to jail where he got stabbed and in the end he was acquitted. However some people will always believe him to be a rapist.

 

[SonicWaffle]

ps. imo sex is better "straight"...so eh...best of luck with that...

Maybe, considering implications, it would be better to say that sober sex is better rather than saying straight sex is better. Otherwise people might not read properly or misunderstand and get offended, as frequently happens.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

Remember that moral and considerate people despise rape, rape language, and rape culture.

I'd like to ask you a question, OP.

Those men and women who have a rape fetish and consensually simulate the act... who also write fictional stories and illustrate for each other (whether David Cameron likes it or not). I wonder, am I / are they despicable in your view? Morally bankrupt? More likely to actually rape someone than you are?

Do you believe that they are dangerous? Do you believe that their fiction ought to be prohibited? Linking with your question regarding "efforts to defeat rape culture": do you count prejudicial laws passed against fictional depictions based on no conclusive evidence whatsoever linking fiction with incidences of the act among such efforts?

Just curious really.

I second the need for an answer to this. Imo, "rape play" and fictional "rape" in illustrations, pornography and writings is quite fine. Females and males can both have rape fantasies.

 

[Lieju]

Rape happens for different reasons. There's the kind of pressuring into sex and taking advantage of another that's motivated by sex, and then there's the kind that's about dominance and power.
The latter could easily be done to men by women, using objects to push in someone's arse is as much rape as using a penis. And since you could drug the person, physical strength doesn't have much to do with it either.

The fact is that boys are (in some cultures anyway) tought that rape is a possible tool for them to control women (and possibly other men).
Growing up (in Finland), rape was a common threat in school, it was something boys would use against girls, something girls couldn't say back.
I was told that they'd come to my house and rape me and my cat, and it was all treated as a funny joke. I didn't take it seriously either, but it wasn't exactly nice, you know.
A boy sexually harassed me and it was just shrugged off 'because boys will be boys'.


If you're interested in male/female dynamic, read up on Spotted hyenas, social mammals where females are stronger, more agressive and dominant. (And for example an erect penis is a sign of submission. I imagine if that was the case with humans, a woman forcing sexual intercourse on a man would be easier.)
With spotted hyenas rape can't really happen, though, because sex is pretty tricky in the first place and requires both parties actively participating.

 

[SonicWaffle]

ye well sober implys drink and...there are other...activities...which are used much the same.

Hmm. I've always just taken sober to mean not under the influence of anything. Although I suppose if we count Viagra...

anyway i'm pretty sure i've probably offended a whole load of folks already...

Quite. I am bloody furious, personally.

 

[Smeatza]

at the risk of sounding ignorant...what is rape cultureÉ

Basically, the social attitudes which lead to a high amount of rape and related things.

To go back a bit, rape isn't something that "just happens", it requires people who believe that it is ok, which requires a rape culture to persuade them it is.

I disagree, it's to do with the attitude towards rape, not the frequency.
If rape is trivialised, accepted, if victim blaming is a common thing, that's evidence of a rape culture.
If Saudi Arabia had only one rape a year, it would still be a rape culture.

Unfortunately not. People worry more about the "jumped in dark alley by stranger" type rapes because they are a comforting kind of scary. 90+% of rapes in the west are committed by friends and family of the victim.

It's important to remember though, that just because they are a friend of family member, doesn't mean they aren't an inhuman monster. Some might say that the capability to rape makes one an inhuman monster.
The most successful serial killers are the ones who integrate successfully into the community in a respectable position.
Plus rape as a sexual deviancy does exist.

OT: As far as I'm aware there is no biological impetus to rape. Certain biological impulses might be met by doing so but it's never going to be the only or an acceptable way of doing so.
With the increasingly more socially and ethically aware society we live in, progress is inevitable. I think the main obstacle to progression is people's unwillingness to address the issue. People like to keep it simple, "rape is bad, only fundamentally bad people do it and that's as much as I'm prepared to think about it."
It's like padeophillia, it's such a touchy issue, people are so afraid of saying the wrong thing; excusing paedophillia or implicating themselves, so the only opinion they're prepared to have on the subject is "pedos are evil and they should be killed."

 

[Thaluikhain]

at the risk of sounding ignorant...what is rape cultureÉ

Basically, the social attitudes which lead to a high amount of rape and related things.

To go back a bit, rape isn't something that "just happens", it requires people who believe that it is ok, which requires a rape culture to persuade them it is.

I disagree, it's to do with the attitude towards rape, not the frequency.
If rape is trivialised, accepted, if victim blaming is a common thing, that's evidence of a rape culture.
If Saudi Arabia had only one rape a year, it would still be a rape culture.

Certainly, although one is the result of the other.

It's important to remember though, that just because they are a friend of family member, doesn't mean they aren't an inhuman monster. Some might say that the capability to rape makes one an inhuman monster.
The most successful serial killers are the ones who integrate successfully into the community in a respectable position.
Plus rape as a sexual deviancy does exist.

By that definition, if you are including monsters as Us, not some nebulous Them, then fair enough. Most people seem to paint rapists as monsters in a way that ensures they aren't like them and theirs, with the rape being almost irrelevant. To the extent you get people saying, and believing, that they aren't rapists, despite raping someone, due to them not fitting their idea of what rapists are outside of the rape.

With the increasingly more socially and ethically aware society we live in, progress is inevitable. I think the main obstacle to progression is people's unwillingness to address the issue. People like to keep it simple, "rape is bad, only fundamentally bad people do it and that's as much as I'm prepared to think about it."
It's like padeophillia, it's such a touchy issue, people are so afraid of saying the wrong thing; excusing paedophillia or implicating themselves, so the only opinion they're prepared to have on the subject is "pedos are evil and they should be killed."

That's certainly a problem, yes, though I'm not sure it's the main one.

 

[KOMega]

To my understanding, rape culture is a culture that either accepts, encourages or trivializes rape.
I hear this term here and there and sometimes I wonder what encourages rape?

I mean, we got all sorts of violent games, violence in movies, books, classes in self-defence, marketed action figures(with kung fu grip!), etc, etc. But most everyone knows hitting a dude over the head is pretty bad and heavily discouraged outside of fantasy/non-real settings. Those who do perform violent actions know they are doing something bad and know they will probably suffer consequences (or just insane/mental problems out the wazoo).

What makes it so people think they can rape with all but a slap on the wrist to no consequence?
I can't imagine someone going through with rape and midway thinking "What I'm doing isn't so bad."

Those men and women who have a rape fetish and consensually simulate the act... who also write fictional stories and illustrate for each other (whether David Cameron likes it or not).

I just hope that people have the clarity to see the difference between actual rape and rape within fantasy settings on both sides of the argument.
'Cuz if they can't see that, then they are sure not going to see a lot of other things on other issues.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

You know, I'm one of those people who believe 'rape culture' doesn't exist. I think because of culture, rape is minimized. It still happens far too much for my liking, but my liking came about because I was taught right. Taught that anyone who would do that is weak, vile, and shouldn't be apart of our society.

Society.

It's the same reason I believe fighting isn't the catch all answer to everything, and should only be used at dire circumstances. I was taught a weak man leads with his fist.

We didn't come from the Ooze with these ideals and feelings. We created language, which we used to express ideas, to which we could think about said ideas and agree or disagree with them. We are animals first, and a society second, something we all seem to forget.

This is to say I don't think it's possible to get rid of violence, be it sexual or territorial. There will always be some minds who are more animalistic and less inclined to follow the ways of culture and socialistic norms. Even in the scenario if women were the physical dominating ones, there would be women whose minds would resist society and culture norms. I mean, we call them sexual predators for a reason. They hunt, trap, and take their prey with the intelligence of Humans, but the driving force of Animals.

If we make society more strict against rape, would it fix the problem? I most assuredly say no. I think it would make it worse. The more you remove an object of desire from something, the more it wants it. The more it uses its mind to try to obtain that desire.

I'm not saying it's good enough, what we have. I'm just saying we'd have to evolve further away from our animal backgrounds to halt the violence and rape 'culture' more.

 

[Reeve]

I'm just going to put my foot in the door and point out that there'd probably still be some people getting raped even without a "rape culture" because some people are just monsters.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

If I?m going to be honest, when people talk about rape culture, I?m always unsure whether or not they actually know what they?re talking about. I mean, just because you make a silly rape jokes to one of your friends, or you watch simulated rape porn (which is more like BDSM anyway), doesn?t mean you?re incapable of taking an actual rape case seriously. Unless you?re actually a rapist ? in which case, you probably have mental issues anyway.

Not to mention ? *sigh* ? there can be grey areas. There?s a difference between these three scenarios: a man dragging a woman off a street and raping her in the bushes, a husband coercing his wife into sex with him even though she?s tired, and a drunk woman riding a sleeping man at a party who wakes up during the act and doesn?t know how to feel about it afterwards (I?m thinking of that episode in Peep Show where a recently separated Mark is raped by a woman he?s interested in, but later claims it wasn?t rape because ?she didn?t put anything up my bum?).

At least, as far as the law is concerned, the first instance ? an occasion that statistically is rare ? is most definitely rape. The second instance is spousal rape, and as such, more socially accepted but equally as illegal/unethical (and probably happens far more than we'd admit). The third instance would only be classed as sexual assault, but if the man reported it (which is unlikely) and the woman was convicted, she?d get a considerably lighter sentence than vice versa.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

"Being male, I have the luxury of sexual safety by virtue of thousands of years of western conditioning and culture."

Apparently too stupid to realize that men are also raped (the quote, not you). This is also happened thousands of years ago. Being a man merely changes your statistical likelihood in certain situations.

- if women were stronger than men, on average, would sexual assault exist with such prevalence?

What prevalence? It exists now. Women, even as a weaker sex, still sexually assault men on a fairly regular basis. The numbers would probably increase, merely offsetting the change in dynamic.

- in a world where women were stronger than men, if men could participate in sexual acts while unconscious or under severe duress, would they become the targets of sexual assault? would the more "active" participation of men in the reproductive act (penetrative) make them poorer targets for sexual assault? (put aside notions of mutual pleasure here)

Again, this still happens. Men don't need to be conscious to have a boner. There are also "tools" that you can use to jam into your dick to keep in hard. The numbers would however no doubt increase with the case of effort VS reward tipping in favor of females.

- does sexual assault exist in part because women "hold the keys"; by in large, sex is seen as valuable to men and given/enabled by women, so is sex viewed too much in the vein of currency or commodity (and subsequently vulnerable to "taking")?

Without a doubt this is the core of the issue. Every specie which requires sexual reproduction has a singular sex which governs the sexual power of the specie. This is possible also one of the reasons Prison-Rape is so prevalent. Removing access to sex, in this case sex with women, drives men off the edge when it comes to needed sexual release. Rape in turn, and it's horrible to say I admit, simply exists because of the dynamics of sexual denial within our specie (and in turn, every other specie where rape occurs).

- are efforts to defeat rape culture severely hampered not by logical or emotional failings but rather by biological/physiological imperatives and differences? is the casualization of rape language and imagery a social construct in truth or just a social framework laid over the physical differences between men and women?

I think the issue is simply more complex that people realize. There isn't a singular cause for it, nor are we going to correct the issue through social programming or biological imperatives. Nor do I think our society is a "Rape Culture" insomuch that people too often fail in recognizing the differences between sexualizing something and raping it. "Rape culture" in the feminist sense, will never be defeated; not because as a society we can't better ourselves (when it's clear we choose not to), but because the focus of the problem is placed squarely on the shoulders of men when it's an issue created by female behavior derived from sexual power.

I know, terribly sexist of me to say, against both men and women, but so long as certain people are denied access to certain things, in this case sexual gratification, there will be those who choose to obtain it through alternative means. Our constant need to deny our species sexuality only serves to continue adding to the problem that was helped with women's sexual liberation and the corresponding drop in sexual crime rates. That however is unlikely to change given that, ironically, it's because of our sexuality we decry others as a mean to control the sexuality of others for our own benefits.

When one considers the notions of a "biological" imperative, I find it highly dangerous to suggest any "correction" be taken whatsoever. If our specie survived and thrived this much do to how it functioned through our evolution, then we could potentially be damning our specie to extinction by preventing what amounts to be a core procreation process. In the same way that female promiscuity also secured our species rise to the top, should we take steps to biologically punish women who maintain multiple partners? From a biological perspective, I would argue against it.

I've seen people's suggestions regarding "biological solutions". And quite frankly, aside from being horribly offended at male infanticide and genocide in general, they lack even a basic understanding of how sexual reproduction needs to function in order to maintain a healthy specie. Much less there idiotic assumption that they could convince enough men (or women) to enforce such a thing on the rest of the population, given that it would require not only the majority of the population to enforce, but the majority of the stronger population to enforce, which is the same demographic they suggest culling for the betterment of the world. Even *if* they could somehow managed to do so, our specie would fundamentally discontinue after a few generations at most... all the while continuing some horrendous methods of population control. Sick and stupid.