Some thoughts before the Hugo Awards

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

In recent years a voting block has taken over the Hugo's to give people awards in the categories they do work in for holding the right specific political views (which has resulted in outright trash winning in recent years), and the Sad Puppies arose in response to this in an attempt to make an organised voting block to coordinate for quality works to win. This block is the only one that has both left and right leaning people in it. Then there's the Rabbit Puppies, who are basically a group trying to burn the whole place down because reasons.

There's nuance to it all but that's the TL;DR of it. And yes, the people who took over in the first place and push for one single political view are pushing the same one that has infested every medium, media and community over the past 10 years with differing degrees of success.

Which is garbage ... the only voter block that is positively a voter block that caused this nontroversy to begin with was the Puppies slates.

 

[Zontar]

Which is garbage ... the only voter block that is positively a voter block that caused this nontroversy to begin with was the Puppies slates.

So gargabe stories that could not possibly be argued to have won based on their quality who have a known group of tight nit authors who all share the same homogeneous, very narrow political views constantly winning when works of quality from liberal and conservative writers have disappeared is just a coincidence, and the observations that liberal and conservative authors within the medium have made are all incorrect?

I'm sorry, but we're long past the point of pretending the Puppies believe in nothing more then a conspiracy theory, with the idea that there wasn't a voting block that both groups rose in opposition to being itself a conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality.

 

[WindKnight]

Which is garbage ... the only voter block that is positively a voter block that caused this nontroversy to begin with was the Puppies slates.

So gargabe stories that could not possibly be argued to have won based on their quality who have a known group of tight nit authors who all share the same homogeneous, very narrow political views constantly winning when works of quality from liberal and conservative writers have disappeared is just a coincidence, and the observations that liberal and conservative authors within the medium have made are all incorrect?

I'm sorry, but we're long past the point of pretending the Puppies believe in nothing more then a conspiracy theory, with the idea that there wasn't a voting block that both groups rose in opposition to being itself a conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality.

The sad puppies are pathetic little whiners who threw a tantrum and played the white male victim card when their magnum opus's just weren't up to snuff, and gladly accepted the rabids hijacking their movement because after two years of going nowhere with their precious slates, gamergaters, MRA's and neo-nazis actually made their picks stick.

Dont try to make me feel sorry for childish so-called adults who resorted to name-calling their opponents silly little names like SMOFS (which they had to drop after it turned out it has positive connotations within the fandom) and CHORFS, because thats so mature and shows their in the right.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

So gargabe stories that could not possibly be argued to have won based on their quality who have a known group of tight nit authors who all share the same homogeneous, very narrow political views constantly winning when works of quality from liberal and conservative writers have disappeared is just a coincidence, and the observations that liberal and conservative authors within the medium have made are all incorrect?

So personal opinions on something trump actual events? Do you actually have proof to back up what you say? Especially given that conservative writers called out the Puppies bullshit also. Even going so far as to retract their nominations and awards despite being decent writers ...

http://www.munchkinwrangler.com/2015/04/15/a-statement-on-my-hugo-nomination/

Also, is Cixin Liu suddenly a bad writer?

 

[Breakdown]

We could form a new voting bloc, the Ambivalent Escapists, voting for middle of the road books that are neither left wing nor right wing. With luck we could get our very own Guardian hit piece next year.

 

[Zontar]

So personal opinions on something trump actual events?

I suppose so given how many people are pretending the Sad Puppies and Rabbit Puppies are interchangeable, and that despite the fact this got argued to death last year and both the Rabbit Puppies and the in-group who caused all this to begin with where shown to be responsible for the whole mess and escalating things we still have people a year later pretending this has somehow radically changed without evidence to support this.

I mean hell, not a single person has posted here anything that came out in the past 11 months to radically change the way things seem to be yet quite a few seem to be acting as though there has been a sudden shift.

gamergaters, MRA's and neo-nazis actually made their picks stick.

I'd sing the "one of these things is not like others" song, but honestly none of these things are anything remotely like the others, and I honestly have no idea why you've just called over 100 users of this site neo-nazies explicitly.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I suppose so given how many people are pretending the Sad Puppies and Rabbit Puppies are interchangeable, and that despite the fact this got argued to death last year and both the Rabbit Puppies and the in-group who caused all this to begin with where shown to be responsible for the whole mess and escalating things we still have people a year later pretending this has somehow radically changed without evidence to support this.

I mean hell, not a single person has posted here anything that came out in the past 11 months to radically change the way things seem to be yet quite a few seem to be acting as though there has been a sudden shift.

So I take that to mean that I can expect to see no proof, yet. You haven't even given me a name of a writer that you thiunk is particularly grievous. So let me ask again ... where is the proof of this voter block before either Puppies slates?

 

[Zontar]

So I take that to mean that I can expect to see no proof, yet. You haven't even given me a name of a writer that you thiunk is particularly grievous. So let me ask again ... where is the proof of this voter block before either Puppies slates?

Here's the thing you're forgetting: this topic was discussed to death last year already. Everyone made their case already. What we need is new information disproving what was said last year. Do you have anything that was come out since the last Hugos that changes anything, or are we just going to continue to parrot what has already been said?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I suppose so given how many people are pretending the Sad Puppies and Rabbit Puppies are interchangeable, and that despite the fact this got argued to death last year and both the Rabbit Puppies and the in-group who caused all this to begin with where shown to be responsible for the whole mess and escalating things we still have people a year later pretending this has somehow radically changed without evidence to support this.

I mean hell, not a single person has posted here anything that came out in the past 11 months to radically change the way things seem to be yet quite a few seem to be acting as though there has been a sudden shift.

So I take that to mean that I can expect to see no proof, yet. You haven't even given me a name of a writer that you thiunk is particularly grievous. So let me ask again ... where is the proof of this voter block before either Puppies slates?

Oh that's easy. The block is "people who don't agree with the Sad Puppies premise."

Good luck getting names or evidence though. They didn't have any last year, either.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Here's the thing you're forgetting: this topic was discussed to death last year already. Everyone made their case already. What we need is new information disproving what was said last year. Do you have anything that was come out since the last Hugos that changes anything, or are we just going to continue to parrot what has already been said?

Then you should know a response. If I recall Cixin Liu was an award winner last year ... would you care to run a synopsis on why he was such a bad pick? What it has to do with whatever you're mewling about?

Oh that's easy. The block is "people who don't agree with the Sad Puppies premise."

Good luck getting names or evidence though. They didn't have any last year, either.

No fooling ... trying to get a straight answer here is like pulling teeth.

 

[09philj]

We could form a new voting bloc, the Ambivalent Escapists, voting for middle of the road books that are neither left wing nor right wing. With luck we could get our very own Guardian hit piece next year.

Too esoteric. We need something far more silly, like somehow nominating Brian K. Vaughan for every award possible regardless of whether or not he's eligible.

 

[Zontar]

Then you should know a response. If I recall Cixin Liu was an award winner last year ... would you care to run a synopsis on why he was such a bad pick? What it has to do with whatever you're mewling about?

Last year was when things came to a head, where the three voting blocks basically burned the place down.

It's 2004-2014 that's the issue, where the in-group voting block's influence can be seen. Given how much you seem to care I'm legitimately surprised you aren't fully aware of this.

 

[Zontar]

Oh that's easy. The block is "people who don't agree with the Sad Puppies premise."

So the Sad Puppies exist as a voting block in opposition to another voting block which arose as an opposition to the Sad Puppies?

I don't think you see the temporal paradox you've just implied here. Either that or like many others here you've mixed up the Sad and Rabbit Puppies. I'd lean towards the later since it's the one that's actually possible.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Last year was when things came to a head, where the three voting blocks basically burned the place down.

It's 2004-2014 that's the issue, where the in-group voting block's influence can be seen. Given how much you seem to care I'm legitimately surprised you aren't fully aware of this.

I'm legitimately surprised you keep spewing words without actually providing a point of reference. So after 10 years there's a voter block of ... who? And what? And for what reason? Please actually porovide examples this time ... not run your mouth. I'm legitimately surprised you aren't fully aware of how much you look to others when you scream conspiracy, and then provide absolutely NO EVIDENCE to suggest as such.

Which voter block?

 

[Zontar]

I'm legitimately surprised you keep spewing words without actually providing a point of reference.

We had this discussion last year already, and appart from mixing up the Sad and Rabbit puppies no one has added anything new to the discussion outside of denial of the existence of a far left leaning voter block that caused all this in the first place and that last year no one was pretending didn't exist, only that it wasn't a big deal. Either that or that the Puppies where hypocrites for using the same tactic.

It was already discussed to death here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/663.881843-The-Night-Science-Fictions-Biggest-Awards-Burned] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.935003-Revisiting-the-Night-the-Hugo-Awards-Burned] amongst other places.

Edit: also here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.881713-the-Hugo-awards-and-sad-puppies#22214825] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.881615-Ms-Marvel-Vol-1-won-Hugo-award-really#22211318]

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

We had this discussion last year already, and appart from mixing up the Sad and Rabbit puppies no one has added anything new to the discussion outside of denial of the existence of a far left leaning voter block that caused all this in the first place ....

Yeah, and I don't feel like digging through a pile of garbage. You said there was a voter block ... what is this voter block? Where is it?

 

[Zontar]

We had this discussion last year already, and appart from mixing up the Sad and Rabbit puppies no one has added anything new to the discussion outside of denial of the existence of a far left leaning voter block that caused all this in the first place ....

Yeah, and I don't feel like digging through a pile of garbage. You said there was a voter block ... what is this voter block? Where is it?

The social justice types who never really had a title placed on them (none was ever needed after all) who pushed conservatives and liberals out.

 

[WindKnight]

We had this discussion last year already, and appart from mixing up the Sad and Rabbit puppies no one has added anything new to the discussion outside of denial of the existence of a far left leaning voter block that caused all this in the first place ....

Yeah, and I don't feel like digging through a pile of garbage. You said there was a voter block ... what is this voter block? Where is it?

The social justice types who never really had a title placed on them (none was ever needed after all) who pushed conservatives and liberals out.

Correira put names on them - SMOF's - Secret Masters Of Fandom (again, that got dropped after he realised this was used to describe people working behind the scenes without whom cons and events wouldn't even work out) and then CHORF's (Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics), which he made up himself. Alongside the fact he used the name sad puppies to designate himself and his says all you really need to know about how desperate to spin this as him being a victim fighting against oppression, and not just being a sore loser.

 

[Breakdown]

We had this discussion last year already, and appart from mixing up the Sad and Rabbit puppies no one has added anything new to the discussion outside of denial of the existence of a far left leaning voter block that caused all this in the first place ....

Yeah, and I don't feel like digging through a pile of garbage. You said there was a voter block ... what is this voter block? Where is it?

The social justice types who never really had a title placed on them (none was ever needed after all) who pushed conservatives and liberals out.

There was certainly a clique which harassed Jonathan Ross and his family when he was going to present the Hugo awards in 2014.

 

[Fallow]

...gamergaters, MRA's and neo-nazis...

And then in the next paragraph...

Dont try to make me feel sorry for childish so-called adults who resorted to name-calling their opponents silly little names...

I sense conflict within you.

We could form a new voting bloc, the Ambivalent Escapists, voting for middle of the road books that are neither left wing nor right wing. With luck we could get our very own Guardian hit piece next year.

Middle of the road is deeply misogynistic and thus extreme alt-right-wing. That's why the middle is actually not the middle, and the new middle just might be to the right of the previous middle which makes the left the new middle. Don't worry if it seems confusing, Jessica Valenti will come around and explain just why you're a misogynist with her infallible logic.

Spoiler: Jessilogic strikes again

On a more serious note, it's kinda sad if we have to take such an approach. Left-wing and Right-wing books can still be excellent and meaningful, so scrapping them altogether is the wrong way to go about it. I'd rather we dropped the zealotry and just analyse books for books instead of ideological purity and propaganda.