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Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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We're all aware, I dare say, of the Indie Speed Run currently going on and being judged by the Escapist's very own Yahtzee Croshaw. And I dare say several of you reading this got involved by making something, whether it was good or not, or else by playing and voting on other people's entries. I'm assuming most of you steered well clear of the entry I helped make, and for very good reason.

Yes, I was part of a team (who shall remain nameless, for our own dignity) who submitted a game that turned out, shall we say, less than great. I was the writer and came up with a concept and a game mechanic that was rather unique (not majorly so, but I had some clever ideas for it), but it was much too ambitious for us to develop over 48 hours. Things were made worse by us deciding to make our game at New Year, when I was also working, so we each had less time to develop anything, and then our artist fucked right off halfway through with almost no work done, forcing us to grab whatever we could from the internet's freeware sites to make up the art. The result was a complete mess and not worth anyone's time.

That being said, the idea hasn't died for me. I still have a fully-fleshed out story in mind, ideas for game mechanics and how to continue the concept, and I really want to make my thoughts something real and worth playing. Which is why I now turn here, to the Escapist. I hope that as a member of this fine community I'll be able to find like minded people with the interest, and the skills, to help me in achieving my goals.

The game would take visual cues from games like Dear Esther and The Path, and would be trying to evoke an eerie atmospheric feel. It's set in the Scottish Highlands (at least, the first part would be), and follows a young woman named Niamh who wakes up in a forest with little memory of the night before, and her friends and boyfriend completely gone. As she investigates their campsite, she starts to get starnge flashbacks and starts to piece together the previous night's events, but it soon becomes clear that something is wrong when the memories she's getting aren't her own. Any more plot info would spoil it, but the plot would effectively split at certain points into various paths, running simultaneously, and the strange part there is that all endings would be canon. Further parts to the game would reveal how that can be so and start to reconcile the different endings.

What I need first and foremost are digital artists, people who have experience in using game engines such as (but not necessarily including nor limited to) Unreal Engine, Unity or Source, and programmers. Anyone who could provide a soundtrack would be useful too, although I do have a contact who has expressed interest in helping there. The plan would first be to develop the plot at the start and put together a proof of concept trailer and/or demo, and get that onto Kickstarter. I want to make this a fully financed indie title and release it commercially, so anyone who helps would be paid depending on the Kickstarter response and sales of the game. The main development phase would be funded by the Kickstarter campaign, plus any further donations.

I realise that this sounds incredibly ambitious, and it is. But it's not the first game I've been involved in developing, however, my previous projects have met with failure because people have lost interest (I was brought in as a writer for someone else's RPG a couple of years ago and by the end of it I seemed to be the only person still interested in making it work) - I don't want to see that happen here, hence the Kickstarter and salary concerns. I know that there are plenty of people here who want to get involved in making games, not just playing them - the Indie Speed Run is a good indicator of that. Anybody who wants to get involved can contact me here, or by email at trivunluzaic[at]hotmail.co.uk. If you have examples of previous work then I'd love to see it, so let me know!

Some further details about the game:

- I plan to make it a puzzle game, but with a slight twist - each puzzle has multiple solutions, and the solution that you find directly influences the flashbacks that Niamh has during her time searching for her friends. As a result, the events of the present influence the past, and that in turn affects the story in the present, leading to the multiple endings.
- To account for this I'm especially keen to hear from people who have experience of developing puzzle games, or if you don't have experience then at least have an interest in puzzles of any kind.
- Any developers will also have a bit of homework, to play at least (if they haven't done so already in their lives) the Myst series, the Rhem series, or the Siberia series, of puzzle games. They not only include the types of logical puzzles I want to use, but also have the same eerie atmosphere that I want to invoke in the game.
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
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It's interesting that people here tend to complain that games are just the same stale old AAA titles and have no innovation or creativity, yet when given a chance to take part in creating one of the new indie titles springing up that are giving a fresh breath of air to the industry, they don't bother. Maybe it's because most people here have no knowledge or experience of game development, in which case fair enough, but to those who do have knowledge and experience, surely there are some who are willing to help?

Or if not, then would anybody know any good sites to find like-minded people willing and able to get involved? (Aside from /v, of course - it could work there, it did for Katawa Shoujo after all, but then again it may be a pretty bad move...)
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Trivun said:
by email at ...
Imma stop you right there. I'd suggest you obfuscate that email a bit, not have it as a straight link. Spambots love these and tend to crawl the Web to harvest them.So just put [at] instead of @ or something, if you wish. The Gmail spamfilters are good but still, I'd rather not have spambots work more than they do now.

Other than that, the game sounds really interesting and I'd love to help, however I'm really tied down with university work right now. Maybe in three months or so...

Trivun said:
- I plan to make it a puzzle game, but with a slight twist - each puzzle has multiple solutions, and the solution that you find directly influences the flashbacks that Niamh has during her time searching for her friends. As a result, the events of the present influence the past, and that in turn affects the story in the present, leading to the multiple endings.
That's funny, just today I was thinking of a game along these lines - hw would one go with a game where flashbacks shape the present. I thought it'd be cool if more games had it.
 
Oct 2, 2012
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Sorry man, I'd love to help but I have no practice or skill in any sort of digital art stuff :(

When it goes on kickstarter I'll definitely donate if I'm not broke (which is the case now sadly).

Good luck!
 

Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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DoPo said:
Trivun said:
by email at ...
Imma stop you right there. I'd suggest you obfuscate that email a bit, not have it as a straight link. Spambots love these and tend to crawl the Web to harvest them.So just put [at] instead of @ or something, if you wish. The Gmail spamfilters are good but still, I'd rather not have spambots work more than they do now.

Other than that, the game sounds really interesting and I'd love to help, however I'm really tied down with university work right now. Maybe in three months or so...

Trivun said:
- I plan to make it a puzzle game, but with a slight twist - each puzzle has multiple solutions, and the solution that you find directly influences the flashbacks that Niamh has during her time searching for her friends. As a result, the events of the present influence the past, and that in turn affects the story in the present, leading to the multiple endings.
That's funny, just today I was thinking of a game along these lines - hw would one go with a game where flashbacks shape the present. I thought it'd be cool if more games had it.
Edit made to email address, no @ symbol now (replaced it with [at]). And yeah, I figured it would be a pretty cool idea, but also a new way of storytelling. I'm a writer first and foremost and any new way of telling a story is a good thing, to me. The plan long-term was going to be to develop these multiple endings that all conflict with each other, yet are still all canon, in the first part of the game, then after release work on what would effectively be DLC (free to original purchasers of the first 'episode', and paid by everyone else) that would take these multiple strands and slowly start to reconcile them, building up to a larger story that I could develop even further. Ambitious, I know, but I'm focused on the first part right now and actually getting a team together :p.

rhizhim said:
read here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/184783/the_metrics_of_space_molecule_.php?print=1

also gamasutra is a huge help when starting to theorise how your game should play out.

first try to make that before hiring someone or you might waste a lot of time and money.

also think about what kind of puzzle you wish to make, be it either really like myst where you have to "move" through "several" images to solve one puzzle or have to solve the puzzle mostly in "one" image/ place.
like this game:

Bookmarked - I don't have a lot of time right now to read through the whole piece, but I skimmed through briefly and it definitely looks interesting regardless of anything else. The original plan was going to be Myst-style puzzles where you have to move between multiple screens, and where events in one place would affect events in others, though I don't want 'screen-based travel' - I'd rather have it like a regular first person adventure game where you're free to move around in the environment. Hence the desire for people who can use Source or Unity. As for planning the game out, I have a clear view in my mind of the story for the first 'episode', and ideas for further on (as well as knowing exactly how to tie the strands of the plot together), but I would certainly need plenty of time to see how the puzzles themselves tie in to the plot. I don't like the idea of disjointed puzzles just thrown in for the sake of it, but something that makes sense in context would work much better.
 

Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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rhizhim said:
I really wouldnt spend to much time on how the puzzles fits to the story if the story is the driving force/selling point in your game.

even if you have a clear idea for a first episode and how it continues, you should write it down and read it out loud. sometimes minor logical mistakes can be filtered out with this method.
plus you can then see how much sense the story overal makes and you could, by writing it down and pinning it accordingly to a wall and connecting it, gain a lot of ideas where the story arc should branch out and what was the cause for this branching out in the first place.
when you know what was the reason for it, you can make a puzzle around that reason.

small example

what i am trying to say is, once you have the story, making the puzzles fit with it is the easiest part of making that game.

just take catherine for example.
they wrote the story first and how it would branch according to your choices and then made some cuts in the story to fill the puzzle segments in.

so please write the story down.
Thanks for your reply, and I do appreciate it. I'm happy to see somebody willing to provide useful advice that will actually be a great boost to my plans and so on. That being said, just to let you know, I have written the story down (at least or the first episode), and made a full plan of where I want things to go from there and where all the branches will take place. It will be edited heavily though now I plan to turn the concept into a full game rather than a 48 hour indie attempt, but the framework and key details are all present, so I have something tangible and sensible to work from. Again, though, I thank you for your advice and support, and I'll keep in mind what you've said throughout the development process :)
 

Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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rhizhim said:
Trivun said:
Thanks for your reply, and I do appreciate it. I'm happy to see somebody willing to provide useful advice that will actually be a great boost to my plans and so on. That being said, just to let you know, I have written the story down (at least or the first episode), and made a full plan of where I want things to go from there and where all the branches will take place. It will be edited heavily though now I plan to turn the concept into a full game rather than a 48 hour indie attempt, but the framework and key details are all present, so I have something tangible and sensible to work from. Again, though, I thank you for your advice and support, and I'll keep in mind what you've said throughout the development process :)
ok, if you want more sources about game developement and story telling, i can provide.
and if you shouldnt find anyone in 3-5 months or so and i am good enough with unity 3d, i may be willing to help you out....

or you could start to learn to use unity yourself.
there is a free full version here: http://unity3d.com/unity/download/
and quite some good tutorials on youtube.

anyways, may you prevail and archieve your goals. good luck (i have to work on finishing letters less dramatic..)
Thank you, I'll definitely keep you in mind (though hopefully it'll take a lot less time than that for me to find a team) :D. I'll have a look at Unity itself when I get some time, even if I end up not using it myself and use a different engine (or if I find someone skilled enough with it that I don't have to worry about understanding it) it'll still be good for me to have a go and try to get at least a basic knowledge of how it works. I have Source already and I understand that a fair bit, so no worries on that front :)
 

jake557

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May 30, 2008
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Trivun said:
What I need first and foremost are digital artists, people who have experience in using game engines such as (but not necessarily including nor limited to) Unreal Engine, Unity or Source, and programmers.
Is your game in 3D or 2D? When you say 'digital artist' my first thought is
but from your description is sounds more like you're in need of

Trivun said:
Maybe it's because most people here have no knowledge or experience of game development, in which case fair enough, but to those who do have knowledge and experience, surely there are some who are willing to help?
Well those who do have experience tend to be wary of projects like this, since well, they have a tendency to crash and burn. Most people don't realize how much work goes into making even a relatively simple game. Without a salary to keep them invested it's pretty common for team members to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. You really have to work hard at keeping moral high if you want any chance of a venture like succeeding.
 

Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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jake557 said:
Trivun said:
What I need first and foremost are digital artists, people who have experience in using game engines such as (but not necessarily including nor limited to) Unreal Engine, Unity or Source, and programmers.
Is your game in 3D or 2D? When you say 'digital artist' my first thought is
but from your description is sounds more like you're in need of

Trivun said:
Maybe it's because most people here have no knowledge or experience of game development, in which case fair enough, but to those who do have knowledge and experience, surely there are some who are willing to help?
Well those who do have experience tend to be wary of projects like this, since well, they have a tendency to crash and burn. Most people don't realize how much work goes into making even a relatively simple game. Without a salary to keep them invested it's pretty common for team members to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. You really have to work hard at keeping moral high if you want any chance of a venture like succeeding.
The game's meant to be in 3D, if you take a look at videos of people playing Slender or Dear Esther then that should give you an idea of the visual style I'm after. Maybe with a bit of eerie fog a la Silent Hill too, but either way, 3D graphics are what I'm looking for. The concept is a first-person adventure horror, with puzzles similar to the later games in the Myst series (so, Myst V and Uru: Ages beyond Myst), if you haven't played those then again videos would give an idea of what I mean.

I agree on the points you make after the second quote, too - I've unfortunately had too much experience of being involved in projects (not as a leader, by the way) where people have lost interest and abandoned the work early on. The worst was an RPG I was brought on as co-writer for. We came up with some great story ideas, and a decently sized team, but development basically dragged on for about 2 years because people kept dropping out or not putting in the required effort - I stuck with it for those two years until eventually I went to the team leader and basically spelled it out to him that we were getting nowhere and that I couldn't be involved with something that I seemed to be one of only two or three people who cared about it. He pretty much agreed and said that he'd give it one last try, and give up if that failed - I haven't heard since then how the game went in the end, but the silence suggests it didn't work out.

That's another reason why I want to set up a Kickstarter campaign as early as possible - so I can guarantee at least some level of financial gain for the project when it's complete, even if nobody buys the game after it goes gold, in addition to the obvious question of funding resources and such during development. That way I can give some sort of payment to people (since as I've learned through these experiences, promising a salary is a great way of motivating people on an indie project) when it's over (only if they stick with it throughout, of course xD).
 

MetalMagpie

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Trivun said:
It's interesting that people here tend to complain that games are just the same stale old AAA titles and have no innovation or creativity, yet when given a chance to take part in creating one of the new indie titles springing up that are giving a fresh breath of air to the industry, they don't bother. Maybe it's because most people here have no knowledge or experience of game development, in which case fair enough, but to those who do have knowledge and experience, surely there are some who are willing to help?
I think the biggest problem is that people who have knowledge or experience of game development tend to use their free time to work on their own video game ideas.

I make a living as a software developer. I am also a gamer. Thanks to the logical intersection of those two things, my boyfriend and I are making an RTS. He's the main designer; I'm the code-monkey. It's set in space and is vaguely squad-based in concept, focusing around a small fleet of ships with varied weapons and voiced captains, with full conservation of momentum and an emphasis on collision damage, and an active pause system and... *notices your eyes glazing over*

I think it's a basic rule of the universe that there are always more good ideas than there are people to make them happen!
 

Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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Thoughtful_Salt said:
could be interesting, I had a similiar idea, though based off of an entirely different mechanic.
Out of interest, what was the mechanic? Was it also a puzzle game, or something different? :)
 

Thoughtful_Salt

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Mar 29, 2012
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it was a propulsion mechanic, you had to keep yourself going, somehow. Sort of a mix of galaga and extreme baby maker........yeah I know that isn't the most desirable game to try and figure out, but it's main mechanic intrigued me enough that i'm slowly developing a proof-of concept
 

TheRaider

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Jul 4, 2010
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i can make puzzle games :) I released cosmic balance on iOS if you want to check it out