Something I don't like about college

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LevelSix

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Jun 29, 2009
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Problem solving, critical thinking, analysis and observation. These extra courses will help you develop such skills by forcing you to apply your skills to different topics and situations, more than likely outside your interests. The necessity of English courses is obvious if you really think about what it is you learn in English classes.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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Seems odd.

In Britain I'm about to go to 6th form (here you go high school -> 6th form/college -> Uni ).

I'm now going into 6th form (after several months summer holiday, whoop whoop!) and you just choose whatever 4/5 subjects you want.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Having taught at the elementary, middle, and high school levels, and then moving to teaching university students, I noticed a lot of improvements in the abilities of the student population. But there are a few things that gradually got WORSE as my students got older:

1) Students tend to DRASTICALLY underestimate what they "need" to know, and so they underestimate what they need to learn.

There are a lot of skills that you pick up while learning a subject that can be applied to other areas of your life, whether or not the specific CONTENT of the class can. The beauty of the process is that the best way to LEARN those skills is in that sideways manner--to pick them up incidentally while working on something else--and something you DON'T favor. This way, you're learning by doing.

In classes where you're thrilled to be learning, especially early in college, you'll likely be ahead of the curve. You like this enough to major in it, so you've probably done some independent study on at least the basics. What that means is some of those "intellectual coping skills" (as I call them personally) aren't necessary--without realizing it, you can skate by without 'em. Then, when you really need them, they're not quite there.

2) Students tend to DRASTICALLY underestimate what they HAVE LEARNED from people or classes they may not have liked.

You see it a million times a second on the internet. "I didn't learn anything in high school, it was so stupid, all of my teachers were stupid, and I learned everything on my own." You're listening to someone who is probably a pretty good learner... but more than a bit of a dick. See, when you're GOOD at learning, the process is very natural to you--so much that you don't always REALIZE that it's happening.

Some of the best teachers out there don't form that buddy-buddy bond with their students. What they teach isn't how to "love" the subject, it's how to do it well. We desperately need BOTH kinds of teachers, and if we don't have both, we get unbalanced people. These teachers are focused on generating high expectations for the student, transferring responsibility to the student, and then monitoring the process while providing the "puzzle pieces" the students will be expected to assemble. You learn a lot more from these teachers and these sorts of classes than you think (again, even going BEYOND the specific content label of the class)... but since you don't "like" them, you're probably not going to give them any credit for it.

3) Students tend to drastically OVERestimate the power of "content knowledge" in their respective fields.

These are the students that think, "I'm going to be a doctor, so I shouldn't be studying anything but medical stuff." And this leads them to think, "Because I've studied so much medical stuff, I'll get the better jobs." I've done a lot of interviews, and none of them have ever had a quiz or a test. Never have I sat there with two other applicants, each of us holding a buzzer, and had to buzz in first to get the job.

Yes, you need to know your stuff. But you'll also have resources available to you on the job to look up facts and figures that may have slipped. Even if you're sure, you'll sometimes want to double-check them anyway. There comes a "saturation point" at which the knowledge of the top bunch of candidates for a job is pretty much dead-even. And frankly, it's not impressive for a doctor to "know his stuff," is it? It's ASSUMED, if he's got the stethoscope, he'd BETTER know his stuff.

The selection process goes way beyond this. Who can speak and communicate well? Who has broader interests and experience, meaning they have a deeper well from which to draw? Who can think quickly, react under pressure, and do what needs done even when it's not fun? These are all things you get better at by studying more things.

Intelligence isn't a measure of how much you know. It's a measure of how quickly and flexibly you can navigate the things that you know, connecting old and new knowledge, finding similarities and differences. The more connections you make, the more intellectual pathways you'll have to choose from when the usual path isn't getting you there. Think of it like the interstate system in the US--if there was just ONE big interstate going from east to west, and ANYTHING bad happened on that, you'd be screwed. The more roads we have, the quicker we can get exactly where we want to go, even when there are traffic jams.

The moral here: Take your classes. Get what you can out of them. If you feel the money is "wasted," you're the one wasting it. There's value in it, whether or not you'll ever notice or appreciate it.
 

Civint

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Apr 23, 2010
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As a British student, the American (and to a certain extent scottish) systems confuse me a little, although I wish I had the options to do more than my BA modules. I'm a history student, but there are art modules, english modules and physics modules which all appeal to me and wouldnt mind taking them. I'll come out a reasonably good historian with all the skills associated with that, but any extra knowledge I desire in other fields I'll need to pursue off my own back with no tutoring, which is fine, but ultimately I'll end up with a less deep understanding.

OP should count themselves lucky that they get the chance to take such a broad number of topics!
 

Sovvolf

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Mar 23, 2009
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Dags90 said:
Math is just a good benchmark class to show your ability to think abstractly, besides you'll never be able to survive in the world without higher math!


I don't particularly mind GE classes, they're great for padding your GPA. You won't use most of your early major education in day-to-day practice. Organic chem is just there to be a hard class so that you can say "Yeah, I passed Orgo" to your employers.
Now if all Maths was presented like this... I'd be a Maths genius. All you need to add to keep a students attentions is Dinosaurs, Zombies and their own survival.
 

oldmeme

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Jul 9, 2008
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A lot of classes are merely there for "exam" part. They want to test you in different fields and areas you don't like/aren't used to. Not every job filled with the stuff you love.

In areas where you won't have covered, you may have to rely on your problem solving and methodical/ logic skills, something Maths relies heavily on, and thus is a good area to test you in. English is another common one for memory and being able to express oneself.

I'll admit though the history is a little off put for me. Maybe dates and more memory tests?

They just pile on the pressure though so you can be the best in whatever field when you get out, should you have done well. In Medicine, peoples health can be at stake so it's understandable why they'd want to be a little more strict on it.
 

z121231211

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Jun 24, 2008
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saintchristopher said:
It's due to the whole wave of "liberal education" that's swept higher learning institutions for years. Colleges want to be able to say, "We produce well-rounded adults! Our English majors take Science classes! Our Science majors take English classes! We produce real human beings."

this, of course, leads to hilarious results if taken to its logical extreme, with grossly ill-conceived courses like "Physics for Poets" and other such nonsense.
Haha, I love Patton Oswalt.
 

zehydra

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Oct 25, 2009
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OP should note that this only applies to Liberal Arts Colleges, and not all College in general.
 

Chipperz

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Apr 27, 2009
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Hubilub said:
One day, a crazy man will run up to you with a shotgun and scream "SUMMARIZE THE YEARS IN RUSSIA BETWEEN 1900 AND 2000 WITH ABOVE AVERAGE ENGLISH OR I SHOOT YOU!"

And then you will be glad that you had all those English and History classes.
I took some courses in music, and sung my answer while tapping out a jaunty rythm...

World War One saw the end of the Tsars
Marxist Communism set the bars
For Lenin to prosper
And for the Kremlin to toppler
And bite the borgeoisie in the arse.

And then came Josef Stalin,
Who made camps to put the crims in
Political opponents
And rebellious components
Would go to the gulags to fin.

Yet a few decades later, all told,
The Iron Curtain fell and brought down the Wall
Soviet Russia was over
The Bolsheviks went under
And the Oilgliarchs were the king of them all.

And he clubbed me for being a smartass dick, so watch out before you learn TOO much. He also bitched that half rhymes don't count, but there's no pleasing some people...
 

muckinscavitch

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Jul 27, 2009
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Nope, every single course I've taken for 2 years are directly related to my biochem degree. Feel bad for you guys though.
 

Captain Pancake

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May 20, 2009
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Hubilub said:
One day, a crazy man will run up to you with a shotgun and scream "SUMMARIZE THE YEARS IN RUSSIA BETWEEN 1900 AND 2000 WITH ABOVE AVERAGE ENGLISH OR I SHOOT YOU!"

And then you will be glad that you had all those English and History classes.
Okay somebody keep this man away from any shotguns...
 

Cherry Cola

Your daddy, your Rock'n'Rolla
Jun 26, 2009
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Captain Pancake said:
Hubilub said:
One day, a crazy man will run up to you with a shotgun and scream "SUMMARIZE THE YEARS IN RUSSIA BETWEEN 1900 AND 2000 WITH ABOVE AVERAGE ENGLISH OR I SHOOT YOU!"

And then you will be glad that you had all those English and History classes.
Okay somebody keep this man away from any shotguns...
I hope you've studied on Ancient Rome this year, Pancake, because I'm coming for yooooou!

And don't think that I've forgotten about the French lessons.

YOU ARE DOOMED!
 

-Samurai-

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Oct 8, 2009
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manythings said:
zHellas said:
manythings said:
Not to be strident, but are you fucking stupid? You do understand there isn't JUST medicine. Great doctors don't just read medical texts, Great doctors know an awful lot about an awful lot. Science isn't as clear cut as "This is Science, Nothing else applies". Maths are needed for statistics, calculating odds, understanding numbers HELPS. No one will trust a doctor who talks like a rapper.

You're problem here isn't that you don't need these things, it's that you don't understand why you need these things. If you stick to the medical stuff you will be a very mediocre doctor.
What this guy said, but less insulting and less reportable.
When someone is this blatantly wrong they should be treated like they are stupid until they make the effort to get smarter.
So then we should all jump on you for not knowing the difference between "your" and "you're"?

OT: A friend of mine enrolled in college for a dental assisting program. They gave her 3 math classes, a history class, and a ton of other shit that had nothing to do with dental assisting, and didn't give her a dental related class for her entire first year.

Dental assistants don't need to know anything but the procedures, the tools, how to do x-rays, and the tooth numbers and names.

She left that school, enrolled in a dental academy and was certified in 6 months. None of the extra useless shit.
 

Evilbunny

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Feb 23, 2008
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I rather liked the core classes I needed to take. They had some cute girls in them, and they were pretty easy too. The classes, I mean. Actually, now that I think of it the girls were easy too.
 

Captain Pancake

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May 20, 2009
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Hubilub said:
Captain Pancake said:
Hubilub said:
One day, a crazy man will run up to you with a shotgun and scream "SUMMARIZE THE YEARS IN RUSSIA BETWEEN 1900 AND 2000 WITH ABOVE AVERAGE ENGLISH OR I SHOOT YOU!"

And then you will be glad that you had all those English and History classes.
Okay somebody keep this man away from any shotguns...
I hope you've studied on Ancient Rome this year, Pancake, because I'm coming for yooooou!

And don't think that I've forgotten about the French lessons.

YOU ARE DOOMED!
DAMN MY HISTORY TEACHERS AND THEIR NAZI GERMANY FETISH!

FUUUUUUUU-
 

Erana

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Feb 28, 2008
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Admittedly, it is about money. I went to a college with less than two thousand students, and in a couple of my classes the professors did explain why the students are taking gen. eds. The student body fluctuates, as well as general inerests. Many schools simply can't afford to have several one-person classes or swathes of canceled courses. Still, after recieved my degree, I can't say that I regret a single class.
OK, maybe I do regret French, but I'm really bad at memorization... but that's my bad. Still, I learned how to be more rational through intro. to Logic, I learned how to deal with obstacles in Northern Renaissance art history, and I could tell when a doctor was spouting complete bullshit from Biology of Women. Not to mention all the enriching books I've read for classes I "didn't need" or the people from all sorts of different cultures that I've gotten to meet...

Still, it really comes down to this:
dastardly said:
The moral here: Take your classes. Get what you can out of them. If you feel the money is "wasted," you're the one wasting it. There's value in it, whether or not you'll ever notice or appreciate it.
 

CK76

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Sep 25, 2009
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I enjoyed those courses. Of course, I viewed university as advancing learning more so than job training.
 

VanityGirl

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Apr 29, 2009
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manythings said:
Not to be strident, but are you fucking stupid? You do understand there isn't JUST medicine. Great doctors don't just read medical texts, Great doctors know an awful lot about an awful lot. Science isn't as clear cut as "This is Science, Nothing else applies". Maths are needed for statistics, calculating odds, understanding numbers HELPS. No one will trust a doctor who talks like a rapper.

You're problem here isn't that you don't need these things, it's that you don't understand why you need these things. If you stick to the medical stuff you will be a very mediocre doctor.
Not to be an ass, but are you seriously going to ask if I'm fucking stupid.

I know a great deal about what I am going into.

You do understand that I have something known as a high school degree. Most people do not even communicate above a high school level, I hate to break it to you. Also, most people do not write about a 10th grade level, even if they have a college degree.

The truth stings doesn't it?

Your problem is that you immediate lost any credibility with me once you said "fucking stupid".