Sometimes I wonder: Why not diplomacy?

[theultimateend]

This is so naive it's hilarious.

Forget America for a second. Your bias is blinding you, so there's no way anyone's going to reason with you. Completely factor America out of your mind, and just imagine Taliban exactly as they are. They HATE anyone who is not on their side. Complete and total hatred, to the point where they're willing to kill themselves as long as their enemies die with them.

You can't negotiate with that. When the only thing they'll accept is your death, you can't offer anything to them.

That's beside the point that, even if they wanted something besides everyone to go off and die, they don't deserve anything. You can't compromise your basic principles.

Please don't come back and say "blahblah they DESERVE to hate America!" A lot of people hate America. Most of them don't run around blowing up everything in sight like they're playing Grand Theft Auto or something.

EDIT: If you want to argue that we should get the hell out of Dodge and come home, fine. That's an argument that holds merit and I can respect it. Don't ask anyone to negotiate with them though. It's ludicrous.

Neither talking nor shooting them will work. The best you can do is provide the people they attempt to convert with prosperity. Few people will kill themselves if they are happy and healthy.

As it stands though, war is extremely profitable in the US, we spend the majority of our money on the military and to researching weaponry to quickly eliminate life with troubling efficiency.

Any form of ideological insanity can only be cured through education and prosperity, two things that cannot truly survive without one another, if you give a nation in turmoil education (properly) you will in a short time see amazing changes.

The middle east wasn't a psychotic shit pool until they damned mathematics way back when. They used to be so well founded that we even use the numerals they devised (arabic numerals).

And I think you'll find making sweeping generalizations make you look like a dick.
I also think you'll find that the vast majority just want the stupid wars to be over.

Hey. Some of us like wars, when they're fun (who doesn't love shooting Nazis? I mean, other than the French? But they have to live next door to them, so that makes sense.)

While your bit on "Don't fight afghanistan" is pretty spot on (at least in point) I need to point out that war games and real war are totally different.

Who doesn't love shooting Nazi's? Basically everyone that was on a battlefield in WWII who spent every waking moment wondering if they were going to be murdered. They would have much rather the Nazi's just not existed and they could have gone home.

Or I imagine they would have rather hoped that the allied powers would have not dragged Germany into such a deep and irreversible financial hellscape that its people, fighting to afford food, would be willing to accept the Nazi party.

But I don't recall that ever being brought up during my pre-college education, not to brag about college by any means, but I find the extreme bias in regular textbooks sickening (should I be surprised? I'm told they are published in Texas largely).

Even with the extreme state of Germany Hitler had to slowly dehumanize Jews to get Germans to accept their slaughter. He had to have people in the utmost worst position see that he could make the sun actually rise the next day to get his psychotic desires met.

It was an extreme failure of diplomacy after the first World War that lead to the second. Likewise I'm sure it was an extreme failure of diplomacy that lead to the first one. But I've not researched that one nearly as much.

The best way to explore history is to read history literature from every nation you can, once you find similarities in the story you find what likely happened. Unless I'm the only one that finds it sketchy that Japan would just randomly assault a military base of one of the largest nations on Earth while invading one of the other largest nations on Earth.

 

[LaBambaMan]

While i'm a huge supporter of diplomacy, it doesn't work with the Taliban. They aren't the technical ruling government of Afghanistan, they just ruled it through fear and violence. They were never an official government, so diplomacy means absolutely dick because they don't have to obey the rules the U.N. lays down. Then again, it seems like a lot of countries' armies don't listen to the U.N. anymore so it may just be time to reformat the whole damn United Nations.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

They'd rather punch a sack of money (which is as close as Republicans come to expressing human emotions.)

I totally disagree. If you see Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld discussing war and bombing campaigns you can see their eyes light up and the emotions flow through them. Indeed, sometimes I think that they need to wear absorbant underwear, lest the bodily fluids that escape their members stain their trousers.

It is only when discussing something like their family lives or what they think of sick people who can't afford medicine you them display all the warmth of a starving hyena interacting with a baby duckling.

 

[Poomanchu745]

They'd rather punch a sack of money (which is as close as Republicans come to expressing human emotions.)

I totally disagree. If you see Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld discussing war and bombing campaigns you can see their eyes light up and the pleasure flow through them. Indeed, sometimes I think that they need to wear absorbant underwear, lest the bodily fluids that escape their members stain their trousers.

It is only when discussing something like their family lives or what they think of sick people who can't afford medicine you them display all the warmth of a starving hyena interacting with a baby duckling.

Neo-cons are the bane of America. I honestly don't think the last 8 years would have been so bad if Dick Cheney was not in the picture.

 

[siege_1302]

Very droll, but I think the point still stands. There are definate positives to at least communicating to the world that they'd be willing to enter dialogue with the Taliban. I mean, the TB would never accept, and the US would look like the good guys all the while killing brown people.

Because of that sentence, some wrinkled bag of pus sitting in a senate seat just got a raging erection. Thank me later for that mental image.

Right, but they would never do anything to endanger their precious war.
They'd rather punch a sack of money (which is as close as Republicans come to expressing human emotions.)
They would then apologize profusely and give it sloppy make-outs.

You can thank me for that mental image.
Emphasis.

Thank you. I appreciate the emphasis. But that's the genius part: not only does it not endanger the war in any way, but it makes them look like the good guys!

What's better than shooting brown people and making money? Shooting brown people, making money AND being a hero for doing it!

(too much emphasis?)

 

[theultimateend]

And achieve what exactly? A terrorist organisation doesn't have diplomats or a nation or anything worthwhile at all.

No but they do have leaders who have goals and if we entertain the idea of giving them some things they want in return for other stuff something useful might happen. It might not or might take a really long time but seems like when youve put yourself in a shitty situation with war, more war doesn't look like the answer.

What can they possibly give the USA? Nothing but empty promises. And what would they want? Weapons. Or worse.

You mean replacements for the weapons we gave them to fend off the russians?

If so I think you might have a point. Handing out guns to appease our own prejudices doesn't work well for the US Military.

Very droll, but I think the point still stands. There are definate positives to at least communicating to the world that they'd be willing to enter dialogue with the Taliban. I mean, the TB would never accept, and the US would look like the good guys all the while killing brown people.

Because of that sentence, some wrinkled bag of pus sitting in a senate seat just got a raging erection. Thank me later for that mental image.

Right, but they would never do anything to endanger their precious war.
They'd rather punch a sack of money (which is as close as Republicans come to expressing human emotions.)
They would then apologize profusely and give it sloppy make-outs.

You can thank me for that mental image.
Emphasis.

Thank you. I appreciate the emphasis. But that's the genius part: not only does it not endanger the war in any way, but it makes them look like the good guys!

What's better than shooting brown people and making money? Shooting brown people, making money AND being a hero for doing it!

(too much emphasis?)

As long as it makes me feel better than Resident Evil 5. I was making money, shooting brown people, and being a hero.

But most of the time I just felt like I was stuck in the world's worst over the shoulder video game.

I blame the whole "AI Partner requirement" if I don't have an immediate buddy to play with . Something obnoxious about having full life and dying because some random idiot thinks that running at chainsaw man with a pistol is a fantastic idea.

But I digress...

 

[Bat Vader]

Very droll, but I think the point still stands. There are definate positives to at least communicating to the world that they'd be willing to enter dialogue with the Taliban. I mean, the TB would never accept, and the US would look like the good guys all the while killing brown people.

Because of that sentence, some wrinkled bag of pus sitting in a senate seat just got a raging erection. Thank me later for that mental image.

Right, but they would never do anything to endanger their precious war.
They'd rather punch a sack of money (which is as close as Republicans come to expressing human emotions.)
They would then apologize profusely and give it sloppy make-outs.

You can thank me for that mental image.
Emphasis.

Not to be rude but aren't you as well generalizing Republicans saying they all like war? Some Republicans and Democrats like war some hate war.

 

[Eldarion]

The Taliban believe god want them to kill Americans, you can't "talk things out" with these nut jobs.

I would love a peaceful solution, but one doesn't exist.

Besides, I remember a statement by a member of the Afgan government where he basically said that Afgan needs the U.S. to keep the Taliban from taking over because the Afgan military is so weak.

I read that in the same article in Time magazine that also said 65% of Afghanistan's people actually support the U.S. troops there.

 

[Shuvy]

Making peace with the browns is ludicrous.

It was important to send in our green people (who could not be yellow as they were still in their uniforms from fighting the reds) to take out the bad brown people. Yes we are shooting a lot of innocent brown people, but i think it's important to realise in the context of getting the angry brown people out of power so complacent brown people who don't make white powder for white guys can be put in power where they can brown nose the Red, white and blue.

There's a greater global effort under the red white and blue folks. And to secure the black gold, brown people need to be suppressed. The blues with white letters can't stop em'.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I totally disagree. If you see Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld discussing war and bombing campaigns you can see their eyes light up and the emotions flow through them. Indeed, sometimes I think that they need to wear absorbant underwear, lest the bodily fluids that escape their members stain their trousers.

It is only when discussing something like their family lives or what they think of sick people who can't afford medicine you them display all the warmth of a starving hyena interacting with a baby duckling.

Hey so you know what I could've lived my entire life without?
The mental image of old men who are so aroused that they require adult diapers.

Thanks for that.

No such thing as too much emphasis.

Where are their other hands?

 

[Duskwaith]

didnt the americans not equip,train and encourage the talibans predeccessors to do the same thing to the soviets during the 80's?

That surely turned round and bit them in the ass.

Its the new vietnam. Just GTFO of there and concentrate on protecting your land, pissing up someone elses back yard just pushes them more to the extremes.

 

[j0z]

I shouldn't get involved in this, but oh well.

My philosophy:
"You get more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone"
I have no idea who said that, but I tend to agree.

Those terrorists hate us, and all that we stand for. they have no diplomats, they do not wish for peace with us, they only want us to die, an they are prepared to do whatever it takes to see us to that end. For that reason, we can not negotiate, there is no peace, they will see us all dead, or they will die trying. For that reason, I support seeing them completely destroyed, because that is the only way for us to end this whole war.
They are like a cancer, or a virus, if we do not eradicate it completely, it will just come back, sometimes even stronger.

I fear what I have started with this post

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I shouldn't get involved in this, but oh well.

My philosophy:
"You get more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone"
I have no idea who said that, but I tend to agree.

Those terrorists hate us, and all that we stand for. they have no diplomats, they do not wish for peace with us, they only want us to die, an they are prepared to do whatever it takes to see us to that end. For that reason, we can not negotiate, there is no peace, they will see us all dead, or they will die trying. For that reason, I support seeing them completely destroyed, because that is the only way for us to end this whole war.
They are like a cancer, or a virus, if we do not eradicate it completely, it will just come back, sometimes even stronger.

I fear what I have started with this post

The reason they want you to die is because you keep bombing the shit out of them.

Suprise suprise, this tactic hasn't endeared you to them.

Maybe try not bombing and instead say "Look guys, what is it you actually want?"

 

[Steelfists]

So for the past 8ish years we have been in a war against the Taliban in Afghanistan and if anyone knows the history of wars in Afghanistan it seems to be going down the exact same path as the others. It is clear now that victory doesn't just come by "beating" the other side. It comes by winning over the people who will then essentially kick out the Taliban because they see that what we have to offer is better. Even though a lot of the blood thirsty Americans wouldn't want to sit down at a table with a "terrorist" I think that it might be time to talk this one out. Both sides don't like each other but I don't think that starting another war in their country is really helping much. Concessions need to be made on both sides if anything is actually going to get done. America will have to swallow the fact that we really should not try to control ever country because they are their own sovereign state and have the right to do what they will inside their borders.

However, If we can sit down at the table and have productive peace talks maybe we will be able to accomplish something that has never been done before and actually get something done that doesn't piss off one side or the other.

We've been talking to the Taliban for most of the time we have been in Afghanistan... Read up on it.

 

[j0z]

I shouldn't get involved in this, but oh well.

My philosophy:
"You get more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone"
I have no idea who said that, but I tend to agree.

Those terrorists hate us, and all that we stand for. they have no diplomats, they do not wish for peace with us, they only want us to die, an they are prepared to do whatever it takes to see us to that end. For that reason, we can not negotiate, there is no peace, they will see us all dead, or they will die trying. For that reason, I support seeing them completely destroyed, because that is the only way for us to end this whole war.
They are like a cancer, or a virus, if we do not eradicate it completely, it will just come back, sometimes even stronger.

I fear what I have started with this post

The reason they want you to die is because you keep bombing the shit out of them.

Suprise suprise, this tactic hasn't endeared you to them.

Maybe try not bombing and instead say "Look guys, what is it you actually want?"

So what did we do that made them fly a couple of planes into buildings?

 

[McNinja]

This is so naive it's hilarious.

Forget America for a second. Your bias is blinding you, so there's no way anyone's going to reason with you. Completely factor America out of your mind, and just imagine Taliban exactly as they are. They HATE anyone who is not on their side. Complete and total hatred, to the point where they're willing to kill themselves as long as their enemies die with them.

You can't negotiate with that. When the only thing they'll accept is your death, you can't offer anything to them.

That's beside the point that, even if they wanted something besides everyone to go off and die, they don't deserve anything. You can't compromise your basic principles.

Please don't come back and say "blahblah they DESERVE to hate America!" A lot of people hate America. Most of them don't run around blowing up everything in sight like they're playing Grand Theft Auto or something.

EDIT: If you want to argue that we should get the hell out of Dodge and come home, fine. That's an argument that holds merit and I can respect it. Don't ask anyone to negotiate with them though. It's ludicrous.

Quoted for TRUTH

Peace talks will NEVER work because of their blinding hatred of anyone who is not them.

to the OP: Don't be so naive. It will never happen in the real world.