Sometimes I wonder: Why not diplomacy?
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Economic sanctions, constant bombing of Iraq (Iraq was bombed every single week from 1990 right up until the present day), unconditional support for Israel in spite of war crimes commited, interference such as Operation Ajax and the support for people like Saddam Hussain, and such things as the Project for the New American Century all gave the Islamic world the idea that the West in general and the USA in particular had it in for them.j0z said:
Right. So should England tear up the peace accords which mean that the IRA is now a fading memory, completely refuse to let Adams and McGuiness into the NI assembly, and admit we were completely wrong to negotiate the peace that now exists between Irish Republicans and Unionists?Kollega said:
Sometimes I wonder: What would Hitler do?
He was successful at being a benevolent dictator who took it into his own hands to prevent the downfall of a country and brought its people back into glory. He used political tactics to show his people the greed of the minorities living amongst them. In addition, he managed to bring freedom to a good part of Europe. He was a successful chancellor, and awesome.
Hitler would be great for this situation.
He was successful at being a benevolent dictator who took it into his own hands to prevent the downfall of a country and brought its people back into glory. He used political tactics to show his people the greed of the minorities living amongst them. In addition, he managed to bring freedom to a good part of Europe. He was a successful chancellor, and awesome.
Hitler would be great for this situation.
Hell yes that's rightPoomanchu745 said:
Anyone know about the Retreat from Kabul in the 19th Century? A whole freaking British Army went into Kabul, one doctor on a dying donkey made it back...barely.
Oh yeah, then the doctor was murdered during the Sepoy Mutiny
Hmmm... I wonder why we had economic sanctions against Iraq? Maybe it could be because they had a crazy dictator that committed genocide on a large scale, and invaded Kuwait?cuddly_tomato said:
As for Israeli war crimes, what about the suicide bombers that hit Israel daily? What about the repeated attempts to destroy Israel by numerous nations in the Middle East?
Hmmm.... No. That wasn't the reason. Because you didn't have sanctions against Saudi Arabia, Kuwait itself, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, or any other nation oppressing its citizens.j0z said:
Yes, that crazy dictator committed genocide on a large scale.
With American made weapons.
What about them? If Palestine and Israel are equally bad, don't you think supplying weapons to only one side makes you look a bit like you have it in for the others?
This argument is going nowhere.cuddly_tomato said:
I support the war because I believe that the Taliban/Al Queda needs to be completely destroyed.
You do not support the war because you think it is wrong and foolish, and think that we should talk to and come to an agreement with them.
Fine, nothing you or I can say will convince the other.
I am done here, I have more interesting things to do on my day off than argue with you over this.
"Now in its sixth year of existence, the taliban regime has expunged all leisure activities. Their list of what is illegal grows daily: music, movies and television, computers, picnics, wedding parties, New Year celebrations, any kind of mixed-sex gathering. They've also banned children's toys, including dolls and kites; card and board games; cameras; photographs and paintings of people and animals; pet parakeets; cigarettes and alcohol; magazines and newspapers, and most books. Afghans are not allowed to be or talk with foreigners. They've even forbidden applause -- a moot point, since there's nothing left to applaud." - http://www.simplytaty.com/broadenpages/taliban.htm
Does this sound like a group you can talk too? Does it sound like they give a fuck about anyone but their own power? You seem to be deluded into believing that these people are respectable citizens. My heart goes out to the Afgan people because they have had to endure war and in 'peace' times be ruled by these savages. It is a brutal regime, that cannot be reasoned with and needs removed: not for my country; not for America; or any other nation state but for the Afgan people itself.
Does this sound like a group you can talk too? Does it sound like they give a fuck about anyone but their own power? You seem to be deluded into believing that these people are respectable citizens. My heart goes out to the Afgan people because they have had to endure war and in 'peace' times be ruled by these savages. It is a brutal regime, that cannot be reasoned with and needs removed: not for my country; not for America; or any other nation state but for the Afgan people itself.
You mean the tape Bin Laden made wasn't enough proof for the Taliban and they refused to hand him over based on it. They were never exactly the legitimate government in Afghanistan anyway, they just moved in and took over when the real government couldn't stop them.Fulax said:
Iraq we should never have gone in to, but even the UN agreed that the US had legitimate business going into Afghanistan and kicking the crap out of the Taliban while searching for Bin Laden.
This has already been done in Afghanistan. The problem is that Coalition forces are not fighting a state; they are fighting a decentralized network of insurgents. There isn't anyone you can talk to and convince to lay down arms, because the guy next door isn't going to play along.
I think the reason USA and the UN went to Afganistan in the first place was that Al quaida and the taleban went ahead and killed Americans in America. Their plan backfired.Poomanchu745 said:
Oh yes. Very much so. Watch Rambo III and you'll have a good laugh.Duskwaith said:
No it isn't. The war in Afganistan was won, now they're fighing in no man's land and Pakistan. Against guerillas, who cannot hope to regain lost ground for good, not an army. The infrastructure of Vietnam is/was very different. Afganistan was a wreck to begin with and the Americans forgot they have to set up a proper goverment.
In Vietnam, US casualties mounted and morale was low, they had to pull out. In Afganistan, there aren't enough soldiers to execute proper operations. There are more police officers In New york than soldiers in Afganistan. If the US increased the number of troops significantly, they could perhaps stabilise parts of the country. Just perhaps.
i would agree that he look like a dick saying that but when most of my marine friends n one navy seal are all gun ho n "cant wait to kill"....well that says something. also its really sad when its these guys that are either alrdy in or are on there way. like one is leaving in 2 weeks -_- so just as theres a group of ppl that dont want war, theres another who love it. oh n he didnt say all Americans he said alot so i agree with him on that oneMaxTheReaper said:
The problem is they would have to stay there. The TalibanSpitfire175 said:
I think maybe its a 2 sided thing. I reckon we could convince senior military people to try and establish contacts with them and start talking to the Taleban but the thing is, I get the impression that they (The Taleban) wouldn't really want to.
As far as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) they mostly despise us on principle, and would rather fight us/ die fighting us, than submit to talks where they might have to compromise. All or nothing kinda thing.
Having said that, I did hear once on a documentary that some Taleban leaders wanted to distance themselves from Al-Qaeda, and focus on sorting their home country out, so maybe with a little effort we might be able to convince some leaders to talk about resolving stuff in their particular territories.
As far as the country as a whole goes though, I doubt you would convince all the leaders, and would have to fight it out. Maybe a combination of fighting and holding ground we take (which is why we need more troops over there) in the difficult areas, and trying some diplomacy out in the less hardcore areas might be cool. I dunno, I'm not a General, feel free to pick holes in that
As far as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) they mostly despise us on principle, and would rather fight us/ die fighting us, than submit to talks where they might have to compromise. All or nothing kinda thing.
Having said that, I did hear once on a documentary that some Taleban leaders wanted to distance themselves from Al-Qaeda, and focus on sorting their home country out, so maybe with a little effort we might be able to convince some leaders to talk about resolving stuff in their particular territories.
As far as the country as a whole goes though, I doubt you would convince all the leaders, and would have to fight it out. Maybe a combination of fighting and holding ground we take (which is why we need more troops over there) in the difficult areas, and trying some diplomacy out in the less hardcore areas might be cool. I dunno, I'm not a General, feel free to pick holes in that
They want us to die because we do not follow their faith and their religious laws.cuddly_tomato said:
Ignoring the point that got them the sanctions, that Iraq invaded Kuwait.cuddly_tomato said:
And last I checked, SCUD missiles, the AK-47 and the MIG-29 were all Russian made weapons.
That would be Al Capone.j0z said:
Quoted all of that for wise words, again.McNinja said:
I think I already said this, but quoted for strong agreement.Good morning blues said:
None of these wars have anything to do with the people. It's all about the governments. Here are some basic rules for people whose countries are at war.
1. You have no say about anything, and your votes do not matter.
2. Your government does not care about you or what you have to say. It will do as it wishes regardless of how the people feel.
3. See rules 1 and 2. They really don't give a shit.
4. It doesn't matter what side you're on, your government will always be a dick to you. There are no good guys in war.
1. You have no say about anything, and your votes do not matter.
2. Your government does not care about you or what you have to say. It will do as it wishes regardless of how the people feel.
3. See rules 1 and 2. They really don't give a shit.
4. It doesn't matter what side you're on, your government will always be a dick to you. There are no good guys in war.