Sometimes I wonder: Why not diplomacy?
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Increasing US presence in Afganistan doesn't just mean more guns, jets and tanks and stuff. It also means helping the Afgan goverment to get on its feet and start functioning as a proper goverment instead of just hiding behind the American's backs. Eventually, the US troops could leave, when the country would be restored... well, not, but shaped to be a real country that could stand on its own.cuddly_tomato said:
Im sorry who declared victory? and what over. As you said they invaded a already pretty awful county and the taliban are still there and stronger so i doubt thats a victory.Spitfire175 said:
I was refferring to Vietnam cause its a winless battle, the americans wont defeat the Taliban and so are pretty much in stalemate.
You mean that blurry tape that proved fuck all? Yes, I suppose that wasn't enough proof. And of course the fact that bin Laden initially denied any involvement might have confused them. The CIA could have shown that bin Laden was responsible, but they didn't bother. Oh well.asinann said:
By the time the US invaded the Taliban controlled 95% of the country and were seen as the official government.
Did the Taliban attack the US? No. Therefore the US has no right to kick the crap out of them. Simple as.
Yes, would you be so kind as to give me a reason why he wouldn't be awesome in this situation.Akai Shizuku said:
While he would eliminate Israel, he would then proceed to murder countless Jews who had nothing to do with this conflict. And then everyone else whose skin is a shade darker than chalk.BaldursBananaSoap said:
The Coalition decleared victory over the taleban regime and its army. In terms of the military, that was a victory. A clear one at that.Duskwaith said:
Vietnam wasn't a winless battle, because the "winlessness" happened in Kambodia and Laos, where the US troops didn't have the authority to go to. In Afganistan, the insurgents, what's left of them, they're not stronger, dwell in the Pakistani mountains or land that is a part of a country only on maps. It is rather impossible to defeat an enemy that has no structure. That's why they just have to be kept at arms length. However, it migh be possible to cripple the taleban: take out their funds, teh drug dealing. Al quaida decleared that it has no money left. The Taleban have tuned down the religious mania and turned into a criminal organisation: they sell opium and heroin, steal supplies from UN and the red cross, loot the locals and smuggle goods and people. They are not running out of money. Yet.
hey he kicked europes ass...so why notBaldursBananaSoap said:
and as for israel. if the UN didnt act like Bush when we went into iraq ie not know or care about the ppl there; then maybe the arabs alrdy there wouldnt of been pissed off when they had to pack there stuff and move thus becoming refugees. why do u think every single person has to join the military in israel...its so the can protect a land that was givin to them by ppl who didnt own it to begin with so israelites can deal with the ppl who are angry that they were displaced for reasons that didnt include them to begin with. dont get me wrong i dont agree with ppl killing ppl for any reason but with israel being a complete fucking dick it leaves arabs left with the only option they know how to do... well i guess but then if they can only blow themselves then how can anyone really help em...
While that is possibly very much true, there is actually a poin to the basic idea.Akai Shizuku said:
Hitler(or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot), who didn't give a rats arse about human rights, got stuff done. Bad stuff mostly, but stuff nevetheless. So if someone, like the Americans, were to act like a lunatic dictator, they would ignore all critisizm and just nuke the entire middle east. It would stop the fighting. That's something no one can deny.
However, that would have consequenses beyon anyone's imagination. Just like Hitler's little holiday in Poland. Or Stalin's great communist plan to kill 30 million people. Or Mao's collectivisation of the farms, which lead to the biggest famine in history. What I'm saying here, is that if someone wants to stop the fighting in Afganistan forever, it requires ruthless force and ignoring humans altogether. And that afterwards, other bad things would happen.
Just to make sure: I don't, for one second, want the Americans to start acting like Hitler and nuking anyone who disagrees with them. Also, that guy who first brough this up has a pretty bad sense of humour.
Just because someone claims victory dosnt mean they actually have it. I declare victory over this debate, dosnt mean i am actually totaly correct or in the right.Spitfire175 said:
Vietnam was a losing battle, the Americans lost it, thousands died in the army to stop reunification which happened in the end when America pulled out because it had lost. The people are being driven to actually plant opium poppeys and the heavy handedness of the forces there pushes them more into Al quiedas arms. Where are you getting your sources from btw? i have never,ever heard of the taliban running out of money in any of the many papers. Unless its an American only thing
Im pretty sure money isnt a massive issue compared to the untold billions the americans have sunk into it
They also control 80% of the country.Spitfire175 said:
You're not fighting religious fanatics anymore. The Taliban are now seen as freedom fighters and as such enjoy far more support than they ever did when they were in power. This war cannot be won with 'more boots on the ground'. It also cannot be won by propping up the current government. How can any corrupt, puppet government that cannot stop it's allies bombing it's own citizens ever have any authority?
All the US is doing is perpetuating the instability of Afghanistan and the suffering of it's people. Above all, American forces have absolutely no right to be there.
The Afghan war has been a complete failure. Time to leave.
"You"? Me? I have no idea.Fulax said:
In case you didn't know, the the way to beat the taleban isn't conventional troops. I never said that. The way is to stop the drug trade. That is possible. Also, the current Afgan goverment is bogus. That was actually my point. Get a proper one going.
I realise the Taliban can't be beaten by conventional troops. That's why I think they should leave. Stopping the drugs trade would wipe out 50% of the country's GDP. Afghanistan is already the 5th poorest country on the planet, let's not make it worse just because we think drugs are bad.Spitfire175 said:
Another corrupt puppet government that can't stop it's allies bombing it's own citizens? Can't see it working. And with an estimated 200 literate and capable bureaucrats in the entire country, there isn't really much to choose from anyway.
