Sorry, Mass Effect 3 complainers

Recommended Videos

ElPatron

New member
Jul 18, 2011
2,130
0
0
SonicWaffle said:
The whole controversy has been going on for a while now, regarding whether fans have any right to demand that a game (or any other work of art) ending be changed simply because they didn't like it.
Not a controversy at all, because works of art have been changed to cater to the audience for centuries, some people are just making an appeal to emotion to tell us that we have no rights after we pay 60? for a game.

SonicWaffle said:
Vault101 said:
...anyway my reasoning with the whole thing is that there is really nothing to be gained in NOT changing the ending due to "art"
Depends where you draw the line. Is it acceptable to paint over the Mona Lisa because you don't like her smile?
Bad analogy. Not only it's hard to compare a videogame being churned out (the ending almost proves it was rushed) to a work of art, but nobody is trying to kick down the Louvre's front door, break the protective polymer cover and spray paint the Mona Lisa.

We are trying to get the authors themselves to fix an actual flaw. Unless Mona Lisa was actually DaVinci in drag, the painting was probably ordered by someone paying for Leonardo's work.

People paid for Bioware's work. Why can't they ask for changes if la Gioconda probably asked for them too?
 

ElPatron

New member
Jul 18, 2011
2,130
0
0
floppylobster said:
This is the problem when you give an 'adult' ending to a group of fans aged 15-25. The ending makes perfect sense and fits fine. Go out, live a little, come back 20 years from now and realize you can't actually change the world and all your choices were pretty much meaningless. You'll appreciate what they were trying to convey a whole lot more.
So pulling a character out of my ass, give him 14 lines of dialogue (completely against the "norms" if you can call them that), give a 90º turn on the plot after 3 games and just FORGET everything my main character fought for and the issues introduced in the plot...

... makes it an "adult" ending?

Nice logic bro. There are probably fanfics that must be more "adult" than Tolkien, Stephen Lawhead and Stephen King combined.
 

Smeatza

New member
Dec 12, 2011
934
0
0
Bottom line is things were promised during development that were not delivered on.

So yes, you have a right to complain.
 

Darkmantle

New member
Oct 30, 2011
1,031
0
0
Ironside said:
Darkmantle said:
honestly, this is tangentially related, I REALLY think they should go with the Indoctrination theory in their extended DLC.

From my time as a DM I have learned something very valuable, if your players come up with a much better and more interesting explanation or theory than yours, FUCKING STEAL IT. Pass it off as your own, they will never know! Take that ***** and RUN WITH IT!

Obviously I personally think the Indoctrination theory is awesome, so call me biased, but I think it would be an absolutely brilliant mechanic, the game would be indoctrinating not only the character, but also the PLAYER, that's amazing!
Indoctrination isn't the players theory though. In that final hours thing it says BW were planning on Shepard becoming indoctrinated at the end and the player losing control of his body. But they said it turned out to be too complex to implement and so didn't do it, which is probably why the indoctrination theory makes so much sense - they didnt bother changing the rest of the game to fit the new ending.
well if that's the case, then the ending isjust rushed garbage :p

colour me optimistic otherwise though, I kinda hope they back pedal on this
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
1,853
0
0
My theory is that they simply ran out of time and endurance. They need to finish it up quick, and the grand plans they had for the ending were looking unfeasible and way too time consuming and expensive.

No doubt an EA suit, with his gelled hair, armani suit and sunglasses (which he wears while inside buildings) strutted into the building and said "Sup, NERDS, you gotta push that Maccy-fects 4 or whatever out now, or it's your ass! Papa needs a new ferrari, and my next promotion depends on our quarterly sales. So get it done, or a lot of you NERDS aren't going home with a job". Then he saunters out of the building, not before knocking the coffee off the desk of one of the lower programmers.
 

Lyri

New member
Dec 8, 2008
2,660
0
0
SonicWaffle said:
Lyri said:


Hi guys, remember me?
My name is Peter, you may remember me from such promises as "In Fable you can do anything you want!" and "In Fable 2, you can do whatever you want!" and my most popular works "In Fable 3 you can do what you want."
I may have slightly embellished my promises and built a franchise upon lies and disappointment but you guys still kept giving me money.
I only hurt you guys because I love you, I just want to be loved don't you see that? I say these sweet things and whisper promises into your ear and you repay me with adoration.
Oh I can't get enough of your attention, I would create for you and give you tantalising verbiage just so I could feel your warmth.

Your biggest fan,
Peter.
...I don't recall his name being Jim?
You know, that explains everything. I know a guy called Jim Molenyuex, that's why he kept appearing hahaa.
I'll fix that lol
 

SonicWaffle

New member
Oct 14, 2009
3,019
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
SonicWaffle said:
I still don't see how not having played the game makes my opinion "worthless", though.
You can't judge something like this till you've seen it yourself. You proved as much in your OP.
Which would be a valid point, if I had been judging the ending rather than the behaviour of the fans. Not having seen it, I wasn't.

What I did was observe the reactions of some players and think that they were probably going too far, what with making demands for a new ending, threatening boycotts and so forth. Having now seen the ending, I have a better understanding of what motivated these actions, though I still do not entirely agree with them.

Savvy?
 

The Human Torch

New member
Sep 12, 2010
750
0
0
DarkTenka said:
Ill say this, out of the 3 choices you make 1 of them actually sort of corresponds to the "only" ending that the game has. If you chose to hybridise artificial and organic life the ending sort of makes sense. However if you chose either of the other options then the ending makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So there is 1/3 chance that you will walk away not quite impressed but not terribly displeased.

Its not until you go back and find out that all 3 endings are completely the same that you feel like you have been wronged by Bioware/EA. The fact that there are 3 different coloured explosions just feels like a huge spit in the face.

I could go on and on about how the choices you made in earlier games never really amounted to much, but all I would really want out of a fixed ending is to see what happened to all the people we saved, and how they try to get back on their feet. You chose to settle the dispute between quarians and the geth? .. I want to SEE that! .. I want to see them working together to build a peaceful existence at the end. What happened to the council? What happened to all your Squadmates who were not on the Normandy?

All they need to do is add half a dozen or so cutscenes to show us some aftermath, they dont actually need to CHANGE anything .. they just to need to actually MAKE the ending!
I would like to go into this for a bit, so the following text is ONE GREAT BIG MASSIVE SPOILER!!!!!!

AGAIN, MASSIVE SPOILER INCOMING!!!!!!






To me the red a.k.a. destroy all synthetic life is the only right option. I mean, you were being indoctrinated ever since Mass Effect 1, and only in part 3, with all the personal trauma going on, is it starting to have effect. I.E.: the boy who you first see in the air duct and later gets shot down in the beginning of Mass Effect 3. The same boy who turns out to be this 'Star Child'. It's all bullplop.

It's the Harbinger, from start to finish, he works on Sheppard in such a way that eventually Sheppard has no choice but to follow Star Child's insane rant at the ending, and only presents him with 3 options, all of them bad to a certain degree.

The Blue option gives you control over the Reapers, but you die, so you are vaporised. So basically you play right into the Harbinger's hands by doing this.

The Green option fuses biology with synthetics and again, you let the Reapers win. Not only do they life, but now everything is part Reaper. Everyone will be indoctrinated.

The Red option destroys all synthetic life, arguably also the Geth, but this (to me) is the only real "let's save all life" option. The Reapers are destroyed, all other life remains and thusly you are freed from indoctrination and (assuming you did everything perfectly), you get the shot of Sheppard's body down on Earth, gasping for air.

Granted, none of the 3 options take away any of the glaring plotholes, which are the bane of any ME3 player. Way too much stuff is unexplained. My advice for those who want the best and most positive ending, would be: Take the Red option and hope that the coming DLC will actually explain what the fuck is going on.
 

Sandytimeman

Brain Freeze...yay!
Jan 14, 2011
729
0
0
SonicWaffle said:
Sandytimeman said:
Personally I don't think they should change the ending. Don't get me wrong I hated it, but if thats the kind of product they put all their effort into I don't want to be a customer anymore.

I enjoyed the bioware products I had up until the very very ending of ME3. If they turn it around I'll give em another try but as of now I currently avoid bioware products.
Not sure how they can turn it around without retcons. All they can do is expand on something people hate, but people will likely be just as pissed off about retcons.
No I mean turn it around as a company. I've lost all my investment in the ME3 universe.
 

SonicWaffle

New member
Oct 14, 2009
3,019
0
0
The Human Torch said:
I would like to go into this for a bit, so the following text is ONE GREAT BIG MASSIVE SPOILER!!!!!!
I left your spoilertags in place for my responses, to be nice. Because I'm like that.

The Human Torch said:
The Blue option gives you control over the Reapers, but you die, so you are vaporised. So basically you play right into the Harbinger's hands by doing this.
Although if Shepard were being indoctrinated, why would that offer even be on the table? Why is Harbinger volunteering to destroy his race's autonomy just to get rid of Shepard, a man who is quite literally on the verge of death? Better to just wait, or even better, kill him while he's totally at your mercy rather than giving him a series of options to pick from, two of which have negative ramifications for the Reapers.

The Human Torch said:
The Green option fuses biology with synthetics and again, you let the Reapers win. Not only do they life, but now everything is part Reaper. Everyone will be indoctrinated.
Thing is, if that was what the Reapers wanted and they had the power to do it all along, why bother with any other option? What's the point in spending countless cycles all-but-eradicating organic life when they had the option to fuse organic and synthetic into one happy family?

The Human Torch said:
The Red option destroys all synthetic life, arguably also the Geth, but this (to me) is the only real "let's save all life" option. The Reapers are destroyed, all other life remains and thusly you are freed from indoctrination and (assuming you did everything perfectly), you get the shot of Sheppard's body down on Earth, gasping for air.
Again, though, assuming that Shepard was indoctrinated, why would the Reapers put him in this situation?! What possible reason could they have for putting him in a situation where he can, if he wants to, blow them all up? I can't see any way for them to gain from this, and if they're controlling his mind and influencing what he does, it's downright moronic of them to say "here's a magic button to kill us, your hated enemies"

I like the indoctrination theory, it's had plenty of thought put into it, but rather than fixing the ending it actually just raises more questions. Specifically, if this is true, then how did the Reapers survive so long despite being functionally retarded?
 

SonicWaffle

New member
Oct 14, 2009
3,019
0
0
Sandytimeman said:
SonicWaffle said:
Sandytimeman said:
Personally I don't think they should change the ending. Don't get me wrong I hated it, but if thats the kind of product they put all their effort into I don't want to be a customer anymore.

I enjoyed the bioware products I had up until the very very ending of ME3. If they turn it around I'll give em another try but as of now I currently avoid bioware products.
Not sure how they can turn it around without retcons. All they can do is expand on something people hate, but people will likely be just as pissed off about retcons.
No I mean turn it around as a company. I've lost all my investment in the ME3 universe.
Ah, I see. Well, maybe there will be hope for Dragon Age 3? I've got my fingers crossed, with any luck they'll go back to the way it was in Origins and drop some of DA2's bigger problems.
 

CrazyGirl17

I am a banana!
Sep 11, 2009
5,141
0
0
I dislike the ending, but I soon got tired of hearing about it.

(And personally, I'm more inclined to blame EA instead of Bioware for the fallout)
 

SonicWaffle

New member
Oct 14, 2009
3,019
0
0
Draech said:
The harry potter series have localised covers. Do a 5 min google search. Not all of them have Harry on the cover either.
Fair enough, but having done as you suggested and done a Google image search, those which do feature Harry show him as clearly caucasian.

On a side note, some of the Japanese covers are freaky.

Draech said:
Radcliff as far as I know has never been on the cover. Key to that being the books are made before the movies.
Sure, but his image is so inextricably tied to the franchise that people are more likely to picture him in the role than someone else.

Draech said:
Secondly none of the books describes him as English. He is described in loose terms of Hair, Specs, scar, pale ect. All universally applicable.
Well, yes, the books make it pretty clear he's English. He's born in England, to English parents. Being caucasian and being English are different things, though I take your point.

Draech said:
You are making a false comparison to "an asian person in china". You applied those factors.
I'm not sure what you mean here. You were the one who asked what an Asian kid pictured when they read Harry Potter, and I questioned why you would think they'd be picturing an Asian person when Harry isn't an Asian.

If you read a book set in Japan do you imagine the main character as Japanese unless specifically stated otherwise?
 

The Human Torch

New member
Sep 12, 2010
750
0
0
I, like you, added a reply to the points you raised. Again with spoilertags.

SonicWaffle said:
The Human Torch said:
I would like to go into this for a bit, so the following text is ONE GREAT BIG MASSIVE SPOILER!!!!!!
I left your spoilertags in place for my responses, to be nice. Because I'm like that.
Although if Shepard were being indoctrinated, why would that offer even be on the table? Why is Harbinger volunteering to destroy his race's autonomy just to get rid of Shepard, a man who is quite literally on the verge of death? Better to just wait, or even better, kill him while he's totally at your mercy rather than giving him a series of options to pick from, two of which have negative ramifications for the Reapers.
The Human Torch said:
I never said that the options made any sense. That's the whole problem with ME3's ending. No matter how we spin the explanation behind the 3 endings, none of them make any sense. Which is why people are complaining about monstrous plotholes. I just think that the Harbinger did this because he has no choice. Sheppard will do something, since he is driven. Sheppard is the one foe that the Harbinger could never corrupt 100%. Only nudge Sheppard in whatever direction that the Harbinger prefers. This is just my take on it though.
Thing is, if that was what the Reapers wanted and they had the power to do it all along, why bother with any other option? What's the point in spending countless cycles all-but-eradicating organic life when they had the option to fuse organic and synthetic into one happy family?

The Human Torch said:
Again, I know it doesn't make any real sense, but it's the most that I could make from it. I am not saying it's ideal, even the Reapers might not think that it's ideal. But given that one of the other options is complete eradication, they might just opt for plain survival.
Again, though, assuming that Shepard was indoctrinated, why would the Reapers put him in this situation?! What possible reason could they have for putting him in a situation where he can, if he wants to, blow them all up? I can't see any way for them to gain from this, and if they're controlling his mind and influencing what he does, it's downright moronic of them to say "here's a magic button to kill us, your hated enemies"
The Human Torch said:
Because I think that the Reapers know that they can't force Sheppard to spare the Reapers, beneath all that indoctrination, Sheppard still wants them gone. And they don't say: "This button kills us, we are the enemy." They wrap it up in such a way, that it appears as a bad choice. The Star Child is talking into him. Making every option appear like the worst. And with all options being equally horrible, which one do you pick?
I like the indoctrination theory, it's had plenty of thought put into it, but rather than fixing the ending it actually just raises more questions. Specifically, if this is true, then how did the Reapers survive so long despite being functionally retarded?
I am with you here, it's a nice theory, but it has so many plotholes and weird loops that it doesn't make much sense. That's the whole issue with ME3. Indoctrination is arguably the best theory that was thought of, but it's like putting a bandaid over a large gaping wound, it may stop some of the bleeding, but does not solve the problem at all.

Bioware jumped the shark with this ending. No matter how you look at it, no matter how many theories/explanations are devised: IT. NEVER. MAKES. SENSE.

This pissed me off so much. My girlfriend watched me play all the Mass Effect games from time to time including the ME3 ending, where you land on Earth and you do your final talks to your teammates and she was completely into it. Like watching a very good movie or TV-series. She could not play the game itself, because she hates action games, but she loved seeing me play, how all the team mates replied to my Sheppard and how the world reacted to Sheppard's presence.

To her this was all just one of the best sci-fi series she has ever seen, and she sure loves her sci-fi. Then she saw the ending. And she facepalmed herself so hard, she toppled backwards over the couch.
 

jklinders

New member
Sep 21, 2010
945
0
0
A lot of people formed an opinion on the fan base without fully understanding the fuss.

Just like in any other uproar there were a few histrionic idiots stinking up the joint for folks who actually were being reasonable about there complaints. The news loves to pick up on that and exaggerate it.

Always better to form your own opinion rather than listen to the haters on both sides of any issue. Anyway, welcome to any brother or sister in suffering to our little fold.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
7,190
0
0
Welcome to my world. I started off angry and ranting on the Bioware forums. Then I thought "Fuck it, even if they fix it I will always remember the disappointment I felt when I finished it anyway".

Now I just tend to try not to think about the series and play better ones, from developers who favour quality control over riding on the companies reputation for sales.

My poor friend was like you too, he couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to ever play it again, he assumed I was just being dramatic, and then he played it himself, without me having to say a word he pointed out everything I hated about it.
 

Iron Criterion

New member
Feb 4, 2009
1,271
0
0
Dandark said:
This is why it would be great if people didn't whine about those who disliked the ending being "Entitled" or "Childish" until they actully played through it or at least watched it on youtube or something.
But what if one did play through the game, and still held that opinion?

OT: I imagine it'll kick off again when this new ending DLC comes out, so don't get too lovey-dovey just yet. I'll be preparing the bunker...