Sorry, Mass Effect 3 complainers
- Thread starter SonicWaffle
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ME 3 thread= Yet another morning shot.
I'm afraid for the fix too mostly because I'm not convinced that it couldn't get worse from here.
A fix would be nice, but honestly the chances that any change will make things better is like 1 in a million at this point.
Frankly if the Extended Cut DLC isn't the Indoctrination Theory, I just don't want to hear about it.
I'm afraid for the fix too mostly because I'm not convinced that it couldn't get worse from here.
A fix would be nice, but honestly the chances that any change will make things better is like 1 in a million at this point.
Frankly if the Extended Cut DLC isn't the Indoctrination Theory, I just don't want to hear about it.
Ill say this, out of the 3 choices you make 1 of them actually sort of corresponds to the "only" ending that the game has. If you chose to hybridise artificial and organic life the ending sort of makes sense. However if you chose either of the other options then the ending makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So there is 1/3 chance that you will walk away not quite impressed but not terribly displeased.
Its not until you go back and find out that all 3 endings are completely the same that you feel like you have been wronged by Bioware/EA. The fact that there are 3 different coloured explosions just feels like a huge spit in the face.
I could go on and on about how the choices you made in earlier games never really amounted to much, but all I would really want out of a fixed ending is to see what happened to all the people we saved, and how they try to get back on their feet. You chose to settle the dispute between quarians and the geth? .. I want to SEE that! .. I want to see them working together to build a peaceful existence at the end. What happened to the council? What happened to all your Squadmates who were not on the Normandy?
All they need to do is add half a dozen or so cutscenes to show us some aftermath, they dont actually need to CHANGE anything .. they just to need to actually MAKE the ending!
Its not until you go back and find out that all 3 endings are completely the same that you feel like you have been wronged by Bioware/EA. The fact that there are 3 different coloured explosions just feels like a huge spit in the face.
I could go on and on about how the choices you made in earlier games never really amounted to much, but all I would really want out of a fixed ending is to see what happened to all the people we saved, and how they try to get back on their feet. You chose to settle the dispute between quarians and the geth? .. I want to SEE that! .. I want to see them working together to build a peaceful existence at the end. What happened to the council? What happened to all your Squadmates who were not on the Normandy?
All they need to do is add half a dozen or so cutscenes to show us some aftermath, they dont actually need to CHANGE anything .. they just to need to actually MAKE the ending!
Shepard was being indoctrinated.
Someone felt this was at the core of the series, Shepard's personal struggle, and so that's what the final victory/loss pertains to. Clearly, the vast majority don't feel this way, and instead the better choice would have been to have this incredibly personal sequence and then a confirmation of the Reaper's defeat/victory, as well as a last look at the fates of your living crew members. What's left is a clever sequence which makes for an inappropriate ending.
And yes, he was being indoctrinated. You don't need a 20 minute video to tell you that the big black tentacle lines, screen distortion, Reaper noises and Shep clutching his head whilst talking to Anderson and the IM were blatant signs of him being indoctrinated.
So yes, I was irked by the ending because it's not where I would have ended it, but I do not in a million years think it should be changed. The epilogue they're releasing should be more than enough, and even then I'm only fine with it because it seems to only be providing an explanation. (Although I do suspect they would have charged for it had there not been such outrage.)
Someone felt this was at the core of the series, Shepard's personal struggle, and so that's what the final victory/loss pertains to. Clearly, the vast majority don't feel this way, and instead the better choice would have been to have this incredibly personal sequence and then a confirmation of the Reaper's defeat/victory, as well as a last look at the fates of your living crew members. What's left is a clever sequence which makes for an inappropriate ending.
And yes, he was being indoctrinated. You don't need a 20 minute video to tell you that the big black tentacle lines, screen distortion, Reaper noises and Shep clutching his head whilst talking to Anderson and the IM were blatant signs of him being indoctrinated.
So yes, I was irked by the ending because it's not where I would have ended it, but I do not in a million years think it should be changed. The epilogue they're releasing should be more than enough, and even then I'm only fine with it because it seems to only be providing an explanation. (Although I do suspect they would have charged for it had there not been such outrage.)
I, and I believe the vast majority of people who disliked the ending are not "demanding" it be changed. This is one thing that people simply do not get. Publicly expressing dislike for something is not the same as demanding that it be "fixed". I would personally like Bioware to change it, but saying this is like saying I would like to be given loads of money for doing nothing. It does not mean that I expect, or feel I have any right to it hapenning.SonicWaffle said:
Are we using films as analogues for games again? Why don't you go ahead and tell me the last time you downloaded a patch, expansion, or piece of DLC for a film. Video games are constantly changing entities. ME3 as it stands allows for many permutations of canon. Shepard is male, Shepard is female, Shepard dies, Shepard maybe lives, the Genophage is cured, the Genophage is ended, etc, etc, etc. So changing or altering the game in any way is perfectly in keeping with established precedent. They were planning on releasing DLC for it anyway, FFS. Letting them know the form people wanted that DLC to take (an actual ending, plox) was hardly outlandish.Mcoffey said:
Also keep in mind that Mass Effect is an ongoing IP. They want you to buy DLC, they want you to buy product, they want you to be interested in future games set in this universe, and in addition they want to promote and continue the strong brand loyalty for Bioware as well. Demanding a new ending is just giving them the conditions under which you, as a consumer, are prepared to do this. Whether Bioware chooses to listen or not is utterly up to them.
But fuck it I don't even know why I'm bothering, all these goddam discussions were had months ago. I was sick of them then and I'm not any less sick of them now.
I loved all 3 games, i love the lore. I love everything about ME3. The ending wasnt so great but i really dont give a shit. Their are worse disappointments in life than a game ending in an anti climatic way. Just dont start all the moaning and whining again that is on par with the whole "You raped my childhood" bullshit by Transformer fans. Move on to another game. Play something else. Atleast the ending was better than the "Well done" that you got completing C64/Spectrum games.
Don't apologize people who want the ending changed are Entitled and Childish. I always thought the endings where fine, not great, a few to many lose threads and plot holes for great, but fine. If many people didn't like it that's fine to, everyone is entitled to an opinion and free to voice it. But, once they overreacted the way they did with this game and started bitching and making demands I lost any respect I might have had for that sorry lot of whiners.
I have to admit that the ending to ME3 was a let down but I keep playing it because of the combat, I believe that the combat is solid enough to replay it even though I know how the story ends, I do have a lot of friends who are out raged at the ending but you can't have every thing. that whole thing about same day DLC also made many people mad but it was bioware's choice so no one can fix that.
I'll admit: I also waited months after ME3's release to actually play the game (I was in university and never brought my 360 with me because I knew it would be too distracting). So when I got into ME3, I expected the worst. Many hours later, great reconnecting with my ME friends and nearly having my heart strings pulled, the ending comes and...
I don't get the hatred.
I chose to destroy the Reapers and thought that, all in all, it was a decent ending. Okay, so the fact that the destroy ending means the Geth, who finally found peace with the Quarians, and EDI, who finally became alive, would all die, but I didn't find that so depressing. Even for a brief moment, they were alive, and that was a lot more than I could ever hope for. I'd like to think that they would be happy that I made that decision. There was also a lot of other moments back in the ME series that made me think about my decision, like Sovereign's speech, Mordin's talk on culture and tech, the choice I faced at Legion's loyalty mission... moments like these made me realize that destruction would allow all organic life to evolve on its own, without intervention. This is what I wanted for the MEverse more than anything else, to be completely free of the Reapers and evolve on their own, through their own talents.
I never bought indoctrination theory. Some parts maybe made sense, but mostly, it's just a desperate grab for something that apparently "offended" people who just couldn't handle the ending like mature people, instead making demands of a company to completely rewrite their ending as if they weren't smart enough to realize what they were doing. That's just fucking low for those people to say that. How could you say that to any writer, that the ending made you feel offended and that you demand they change THEIR work?
I dunno, I just don't like to think that Bioware is lazy with ME3's ending. In fact, another theory I've heard about actually makes me more excited than anything else. It's called "Beings of Light Theory", which I heard from gamermd83 on youtube and actually ties in to ME lore now. Just watch the video, it makes a hell of a lot more sense and - more importantly - means that there might actually be MORE to the MEverse in the future:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUcHf-mCR4w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPNqOgNGwSk&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ascb79jqfo (This one made me think that there's actually more to the MEverse, that 'machine devils' are outside our own galaxy and will be introduced in either ME3 ending DLC or other ME games)
Ultimately, however, it all depends on what happens with the ME3 ending DLC, I suppose.
I don't get the hatred.
I chose to destroy the Reapers and thought that, all in all, it was a decent ending. Okay, so the fact that the destroy ending means the Geth, who finally found peace with the Quarians, and EDI, who finally became alive, would all die, but I didn't find that so depressing. Even for a brief moment, they were alive, and that was a lot more than I could ever hope for. I'd like to think that they would be happy that I made that decision. There was also a lot of other moments back in the ME series that made me think about my decision, like Sovereign's speech, Mordin's talk on culture and tech, the choice I faced at Legion's loyalty mission... moments like these made me realize that destruction would allow all organic life to evolve on its own, without intervention. This is what I wanted for the MEverse more than anything else, to be completely free of the Reapers and evolve on their own, through their own talents.
I never bought indoctrination theory. Some parts maybe made sense, but mostly, it's just a desperate grab for something that apparently "offended" people who just couldn't handle the ending like mature people, instead making demands of a company to completely rewrite their ending as if they weren't smart enough to realize what they were doing. That's just fucking low for those people to say that. How could you say that to any writer, that the ending made you feel offended and that you demand they change THEIR work?
I dunno, I just don't like to think that Bioware is lazy with ME3's ending. In fact, another theory I've heard about actually makes me more excited than anything else. It's called "Beings of Light Theory", which I heard from gamermd83 on youtube and actually ties in to ME lore now. Just watch the video, it makes a hell of a lot more sense and - more importantly - means that there might actually be MORE to the MEverse in the future:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUcHf-mCR4w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPNqOgNGwSk&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ascb79jqfo (This one made me think that there's actually more to the MEverse, that 'machine devils' are outside our own galaxy and will be introduced in either ME3 ending DLC or other ME games)
Ultimately, however, it all depends on what happens with the ME3 ending DLC, I suppose.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that you had to experience that... Well, disappointment is the cleanest, nicest way to term it. But, now you know the whole story, so to speak, and now your opinion has matured somewhat, for lack of a better term.
Besides, hasn't everyone said shit that they would have said differently once the shoe was on the other foot? We've all been there, so its no big deal.
As for the problems of the ending, yes, a lot of people are upset because they felt it invalidated all of the time, effort, and yes, emotion, into the series prior. And, in a way, they'd be right, at least for themselves. That part is more personal than professional.
The rest are complaining due to the stark difference in writing quality between the majority of the game, and say, the final three missions or so. That is more professional than personal. If rumors are to be believed, the ending was the 'brainchild' (and I do use that term with immense sarcasm) of Casey Hudson, while the rest of the writing team weren't given any say in it.
To butcher a quote from Mass Effect 2, "That's not exactly what I call effective writing peer review.". Kudos to those that recognize that quote.
Me, I still want the ending 'fixed'. Why? To give the writing team a chance to give us the same level of quality that the rest of the game had, which I believe they wanted to give us in the first place.
Of course, I also want Casey Hudson fired and blacklisted so he cant be in charge of game development again, but if I really had to choose, I'd go with the better ending myself.
Besides, hasn't everyone said shit that they would have said differently once the shoe was on the other foot? We've all been there, so its no big deal.
As for the problems of the ending, yes, a lot of people are upset because they felt it invalidated all of the time, effort, and yes, emotion, into the series prior. And, in a way, they'd be right, at least for themselves. That part is more personal than professional.
The rest are complaining due to the stark difference in writing quality between the majority of the game, and say, the final three missions or so. That is more professional than personal. If rumors are to be believed, the ending was the 'brainchild' (and I do use that term with immense sarcasm) of Casey Hudson, while the rest of the writing team weren't given any say in it.
To butcher a quote from Mass Effect 2, "That's not exactly what I call effective writing peer review.". Kudos to those that recognize that quote.
Me, I still want the ending 'fixed'. Why? To give the writing team a chance to give us the same level of quality that the rest of the game had, which I believe they wanted to give us in the first place.
Of course, I also want Casey Hudson fired and blacklisted so he cant be in charge of game development again, but if I really had to choose, I'd go with the better ending myself.
I never really got he issue with the ending. Sure it was crap, but there's so much more railroading on nonsence in Mass Effect 2. No one was had such a massive hissy fit over that. Second, games often have crap stories and crapper endings. So one more game was made with a crap ending. Stop the fucking presses! This injustice can not be allowed to continue. The precious Mass Effect series must be elevated beyond the standards of the common game. All pales in comparison to its expectant glory. Behold, for the messiah has come! Blalrrrlrlrrljsfjsdh...
My argument has always been from a place of tempered expectations. We all saw how little our choices mattered in ME2. Universe altering choices swapped a few pieces of dialog. It might add or remove a few non-plot essential encounters. The "promise" of Mass Effect was that annihilation was one decision away. None of my choices in Mass Effect could lead to annihilation. None of them really mattered by the second game from a gameplay perspective.
In the years between 2 and 3, I wondered just how you could go about making any decisions meaningful. Saving Wrex would make the Krograns more amiable. Working with Legion would make the geth more likely to agree to a stupid plan. I could go on. In the end, I assumed the game's ultimate outcome would boil down to incrementing a number to certain thresholds. I didn't exactly expect the mechanic to literally be "here is a bar - fill it for swift victory" of course; usually you hide that.
As far as the logic of the ending goes, I maintain that it was suitable given the stakes. Mass Effect set the stakes too high and gave us an enemy far to powerful to beat without a deus ex machina. The three color choice is in keeping with every god damn decision you ever made in Mass Effect up to that point. Were I to have a complaint it is simply this: the game just kinda ends. Suddenly. In fact, it would be similar to Lord of the Rings ending after the victory at the black gate. Not including an epilogue of worth remains the only damning problem that game had as far as I'm concerned.
In the years between 2 and 3, I wondered just how you could go about making any decisions meaningful. Saving Wrex would make the Krograns more amiable. Working with Legion would make the geth more likely to agree to a stupid plan. I could go on. In the end, I assumed the game's ultimate outcome would boil down to incrementing a number to certain thresholds. I didn't exactly expect the mechanic to literally be "here is a bar - fill it for swift victory" of course; usually you hide that.
As far as the logic of the ending goes, I maintain that it was suitable given the stakes. Mass Effect set the stakes too high and gave us an enemy far to powerful to beat without a deus ex machina. The three color choice is in keeping with every god damn decision you ever made in Mass Effect up to that point. Were I to have a complaint it is simply this: the game just kinda ends. Suddenly. In fact, it would be similar to Lord of the Rings ending after the victory at the black gate. Not including an epilogue of worth remains the only damning problem that game had as far as I'm concerned.
Has BioWare ever come out and said what they were trying to accomplish (maybe from a writer)? I guess a "technological singularity" would be a bad thing hence a desire to stop it, but I have a hard time accepting that the resolution of a 3 game series is an abstract sci-fi concept that occupied mostly side quests.Dendio said:
I copied the post from your link (thanks for sharing) and the OP's defense is 12 pages (8400 words). Maybe I'm lazy, but I can't be bothered to think that hard about a video game.
It had all the elements in place for a fantastic ending, that's what makes it even more incomprehensibly bad.Djinn8 said:
To this day I still don't understand what exactly were they trying to do with the space kid and the 3 underexplained choices with teleporting squadmates and Adam and Eve allusions.
while i see your point, imagine you had already bought *insert large amount of money here for art* and you had a nice room with art that made sense and was beautiful to look at, and then the last piece comes along that picasso says "damn dude, this shit is about to be amazing and complete your room like a fuckin boss" so you get excited, then on reveal day, he hangs it on your wall, and there is literally a piece of shit smeared for a mustache over mona lisaSonicWaffle said:
what would your reaction be to that? considering you PAID for it.
Mr. SonicWaffle I appreciate your change of mind and finally understanding why us Bioware fans are so disappointed and also now have a deep-seated rage towards Moviebob(not me though). While what you said is true in regards to the ending(rushed, crummy, terrible, etc.) what you probably did not know, is that the ending on the Mass Effect 3 disc is not the original ending.SonicWaffle said:
That's right, the ending that you and everyone else saw was a rewrite. An ending not written by the careful and precise artisans behind the writing staff of Bioware, but the heinously evil, and overall gigantic idiot, Mr. Enemy Number One, Casey Hudson. Why was the ending written by him and not the writers you ask? Here's why:
Apparently their was an internal leak in Bioware that revealed the script to Mass Effect 3, namely the ending. The original ending itself was MUCH
better and much more thought-provoking than the one that is currently used. Apparently, Mr. Hudson didn't like the fact that the ending was known to the
world, and did what only an idiot would do, re-write the ending. He's behind the current pile of an ending, not the writers. And as much as they protested
the change, Hudson's word was law, and so the ending was forcibly written.
And that's why the endin is bad, and why we hate Casey Hudson. Casey isn't even a writer or, to my knowledge, even been part of writing until that ending. He's a grunt in the gaming industry, a code monkey, a mega nerd, turbo brain, C++ linguist, a programmer! That's why there are so many holes, because it was written by someone whose job is not to write, but to code.
Mr.SonicWaffle if you would indulge me, I would gladly tell you the ending that Bioware really had in mind. And the choices? Wooh, it's heavy, really heavy. So if you want to know what ending Bioware really wanted to run with, go ahead and ask.