Space Marines: They're becoming wimpier with each generation (Now with added ORK!)

[Rolling Thunder]

The Starship troopers marines are basically Guardsmen with nukes and carapace armour.


Space Marines are seven to eight feet tall supermen who wear enough armour to hold together a light tank, fire rocket-bullets and can break a man's spine with one hand. They're just as badass as they ever were, it's just that 40K has a lot more badass things. Carnifexes. Leman Russes. Mechanised Eldar.

It's not that they've become any less powerful, it's just that there really is a limit on how powerful a human can become. And yes, they are human- their abilities and bodies are that of an enhanced human.

However, I think the Imperium needs to form armies made entirely of Eversor assassins...

 

[Fire Daemon]

I don't see how you can compare the two. The Space Marines in 40k are based on zealous knights of the crusades set in a Gothic future environment and hence receive the technology that comes with the setting. The Mastercheif, while sharing some similarities with 40k, has a closer similarity with the marines/soldiers of today (hell, his name is even a navy rank) and the setting is more modern with slightly improved technology. The settings are responsible for creating these differences, not the "pussification" of the Sci-fi genre. Your attempt to rally others against Halo and possibly FPS is very poorly done. You could have at least given some other examples. Turok is one of them.

I have no idea but it's one of the many reasons that i've almost lost complete faith in humanity.

Seriously? of all the things that could cause someone to lose faith in Humanity this is one of them! What a stupid thing to say. When I think of losing faith in Humanity I usually think that it will lead someone to kill themselves, otherwise not complete faith has been lost. One of the things that lead you to killing yourself is Space Marines? No offense, but thats really stupid.

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

It makes them more accessible. It's hard for most people to imagine themselves 6 feet taller and made of Epic, since I have the Epic part down I can but most just can't, so prefer that "Human, but pushed beyond his limits", because they can imagine themselves in that situation. But I agree, we need more walking fortresses.

 

[Dys]

They are changing for several reasons.
1. As a tabletop game, there needs to be balance, the days of a squad of terminators and a HQ walking around destroying several armies of troops on their own are gone. It was not balanced and it did not make for competitive tournements.
2. In the lore it made no sense for space marines to be that much stronger than say, Eldar, the comparisons were compared to humans where they are awsome was to humans, which they still are.
3. Space marines are part of a race that is slowly dying, the human empire is not a happy thing. They don't understand their own technology and the entire social system makes communist russia look like a tea party, how could they go on at their peak when the world around them was being torn to shreds?

In first edition tabletop 40k really was played like "Choose space marines or loose". The only other army that could (kind of) fight them was the chaos marine clone army, and even then they were usually crapper versions of the empires finest. And, while I'm continuing about my rant against awsome marines, most marines are several hundred years old, which means that they cannot easily replace the experienced marines when they die. As such newer generations of marines, with their less impressive weapons and armour (technology is going backward, remember?) cannot ever have the same real world experience as their older counterparts, as their simply isn't the resource to provide the training.

 

[nathan-dts]

Gamers want a challenge and they can't have that when the main character is a huge indestructable man-thing. Look at KillZones protaganist 'Sev' he isn't a badass but we still love him.

 

[Alex_P]

Also, Space Marines in most of the 40k fiction are far bigger and beefier than Space Marines have ever been in the actual 40k game. I find the ones in the game more interesting because they're not so ridiculously ridiculous.

-- Alex

 

[nekolux]

Space marines = gundam..... *whimpers* NOOOOOOO NOT THE FACE AHH

 

[Gitsnik]

Space Marines, the 40k marines, are not the first. BUT, IIRC, Rick (the original emperor of the 40k universe) stated that power-armoured space marines were first found in 40k. Specifically big beefy bastards with an over abundance of armour who looked like a brick shit house.

Starship Troopers, and Pvt Vasquez, FTW!

 

[Dommyboy]

I'm surprised that the Master Chief can be killed by being ran over by a mongoose. He weighs five hundred kilos or something doesn't he? Now he is a wimpy Space Marine.

 

[hebdomad]

Well your examples are hardly that good.

War hammer was not the first space marines. The star ship trooper novels where probably the earliest example, though I'm sure there is older.

*after some research*
Star ship troopers 1959
Dune 1965
Star trek 1966
Star wars 1977
Aliens 1986
War Hammer 40k 1987

Your example of halo 'marines' been weak is a bit off. Your 'marine' example is one of the toughest bad ass creations of SI-FI, almost as good as your 'over the top' war hammer 'marines' probably even tougher. The halo marine you show is known as a 'Spartan' is complete with shields, massive strength, and very high agility.

 

[rossatdi]

Do you remember the day that Space Marines were 12 feet tall, could spit acid, had 4 lungs, at least 2 hearts, carried guns that required complete teams of mere mortals to operate (that were easily held by Space Marines), could kill anything, and occasionally died (in very very short occurrences.

No?

You mean the Rogue Trader days? And even then they weren't that badass except in the fluff. And even in the fluff these ultimate badasses were all basically warrior monks with no ability to critical think or have sex. So basically they're the ultimate prepubescent hero.

Ws-Bs-S-T-W-I-A-Ld-Sv
4--4--4-4-1-4-1-8--3+ = wuss

A guardsman has to face down the worst horrors in the universe with nothing but a flashlight, string vest and a butter knife.

Ws-Bs-S-T-W-I-A-Ld-Sv
3--3--3-3-1-3-1-7--5+ = man

 

[MoganFreeman]

Mobile Infantry>Space Marines

Wisdom.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Mobile infantry=Guardsmen. Get over it. The mobile infantry are humans, well-trained, but still S3 T3 I3 BS3 WS3 Ld7. Admitedly they have power armour in the book of Starship Troopers, but that's still a man inside their

Much as I loathe to say it, but pound for pound a guardsman is not going to kill a space marine. And so neither is the mobile infantry.

Yes, they get mini-nukes. So? Guardsmen get tanks the size of a small city, flamethrowers and do not get radiation poisioning. Deathstrike FTW.

 

[Lord Krunk]

Eh, I don't want Space Marines to be a stereotype; I want them to be what they are; soldiers in space.

Its like you're saying that every U.S. Soldier has to be black, wisecracking and smoking like a chimney; you're just wrong.

 

[MercenaryCanary]

There has got to be something wrong with a super soldier who can get killed by getting run over by a jeep.

What if its a super jeep?

 

[rossatdi]

Much as I loathe to say it, but pound for pound a guardsman is not going to kill a space marine. And so neither is the mobile infantry.

4 Spacemarines = 60pts
- 8 rapid fire shots
- 5/6 hit (3+)
- 2/3 kills (3+)
= 2 or 3 dead guardsmen = 12 or 18 pts

vs

10 Guardsmen = 60 pts
- 20 rapid fire shots
- 10 hits (4+)
- 3 wounds (5+)
- 1 fail (3+)
= 1 dead marine = 15pts


I'd prefer the guardsmen just for the rounder odds, plus I'm luckier with them.

 

[Fangface74]

I remember reading that in the case of a planetary scale revolt, sending 4-6 Space Marines could be considered overkill.

(I'm going on literature not game mechanics)

 

[Brett Alex]

Star ship troopers 1959
Dune 1965
Star trek 1966
Star wars 1977
Aliens 1986
War Hammer 40k 1987

The first powered armour actually appeared in a book published in 1937 if I'm not mistaken. And yes, a guy did use to assault an entire fortress. In space. By himself.

There is something about powered armour that just screams badass.

 

[Malidictuim]

WH40K SM > Mobile Infantry.
Stronger, faster, MUCH SMARTER, better weapons and armour and equipment, more purposeful motivation other than "HUR HUR, KILL DEM BUGZ!".
I mean, cmon. Why don't the future military have tanks?? Or at least APCs. No. Instead the Mobile(?) Infantry gotta walk everywhere and DIE ALOT. It takes 6 MIs to kill 1 bug. It takes 467 heretics to kill a Space Marine. If he's not looking. And in the shower.

P.S: Space Marines (According to the Black Library novels) have 3 lungs, 2 hearts and can eat anything that's even slighty edible.