Space Marines: They're becoming wimpier with each generation (Now with added ORK!)

[fix-the-spade]

I remember when space marines had names like Hicks and Vasquez.

They were mere humans and infinitely more badass.

 

[TwistedEllipses]

Space marines = gundam..... *whimpers* NOOOOOOO NOT THE FACE AHH

They're mecha! *goes for the face*

 

[rossatdi]

I remember when space marines had names like Hicks and Vasquez.

They were mere humans and infinitely more badass.

Agreed. Bad ass for me is defined by one's ability to punch above your logical weight.

So the human's of the colonial marines taking on acid-blooded, penis tongued, clawing xenomorphs is more badass than Space Marines shooting orks with rockets cannons.

 

[Normeo]

Much as I loathe to say it, but pound for pound a guardsman is not going to kill a space marine. And so neither is the mobile infantry.

4 Spacemarines = 60pts
- 8 rapid fire shots
- 5/6 hit (3+)
- 2/3 kills (3+)
= 2 or 3 dead guardsmen = 12 or 18 pts

vs

10 Guardsmen = 60 pts
- 20 rapid fire shots
- 10 hits (4+)
- 3 wounds (5+)
- 1 fail (3+)
= 1 dead marine = 15pts


I'd prefer the guardsmen just for the rounder odds, plus I'm luckier with them.

also I've seen a preview of some of the new guard rules. Chimera with multi laser, heavy bolter 55 points. That 30 points cheaper and probably more dead marines.

 

[darkless]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

 

[Daveman]

Whoever thinks a space marine is defined by starship troopers is an idiot, they are simply referred to as marines, never SPACE marines. The film is awesome but space marines are supposed to be detached from humans. Plus marines were total pussies in starship troopers as you see as soon as they land on the first planet and get absolutely rinsed.

 

[Normeo]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

every tried chasing a gun drone with a close combat terminator. Fun as hell, for the Tau player.

 

[darkless]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

every tried chasing a gun drone with a close combat terminator. Fun as hell, for the Tau player.

Then shoot it, don't chase it. Terminators have storm bolters and auto cannons for a very good reason.

 

[Normeo]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

every tried chasing a gun drone with a close combat terminator. Fun as hell, for the Tau player.

Then shoot it, don't chase it. Terminators have storm bolters and auto cannons for a very good reason.

Close combat as in a pair of lightning claws, no guns. His A cannon squad died in a failed deep strike. Bad luck, but still a win

 

[darkless]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

every tried chasing a gun drone with a close combat terminator. Fun as hell, for the Tau player.

Then shoot it, don't chase it. Terminators have storm bolters and auto cannons for a very good reason.

Close combat as in a pair of lightning claws, no guns. His A cannon squad died in a failed deep strike. Bad luck, but still a win

Ah now that's a completely different story all together you cant use that point because of the guys horrible luck, normally the drone wouldn't have lasted a turn.

 

[Normeo]

True, true. But every thing has been down sized. There's no point buy terminator armour for the Space Marine captain any more, because the artificer armour and iron halo is cheaper (an less you want to deep strike). He's currently trying out a raven wing army (all bikes)and they are nails.

 

[WarpGhost]

Ugh, what a load of nonesense this thread is.

Starship Troopers = normal human, fancy equipment
Adeptus Astartes = superhuman, fancy equipment
Spartan = superhuman, crappy equipment

Seriously, theyre not comparable (they dont even all call themselves space marines). Saying one is better than the other is sheer stupidity. A Spartan is badass because of the 'man' inside the suit, not the equipment; an Astartes is badass because both he and the equipment are; and a Starship Trooper is badass because he's a monkey in a mobile nuke dispenser. Doesnt make them 'better' or 'worse' than each other.

 

[MrGFunk]

Somehow, I'd think you'd want to have a character you could identify with more than a massive hulk of armor. Say what you will about Halo, Master Chief is at least easier to identify with than that.

This is true. I don't understand how in the wartorn alien invested future people have time to work out like Arnold Schwarzenegger when he was Mr Universe. I think people should be sinewy and thin. Far more believable.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I must make a point of reading Starship Troopers. I always disliked Heinlein's obvious hard-on for rightwing politics, and so have never made time to buy and read starship Troopers....though if anyone can post a weblink (I think the copyright may have run out- it's been fifty years...)


And besides, I still see an Astarates wiping out the Mobile Infantry. Mainly because they have tanks, and the Mobs don't.

However, as is said in Fallout: "There's meat under that armour, and meat can be ground."

 

[CoziestPigeon]

Space marines existed before Warhammer you know.... They came up with all this stuff about insanely awesome space marines, the originals from Starship troopers were pretty bad ass though. Warhammer wasn't the original so don't compare shit to it.

They were only so badass because of NPH.

 

[GenHellspawn]

Marcus Fenix = More of a Badass than you will ever grow to be.

Spoiler: Correction

I'll bet you can't say that to Marneus Calgar's face.

 

[WeedWorm]

It fills in more of an 'every man' archtype?

Somehow, I'd think you'd want to have a character you could identify with more than a massive hulk of armor. Say what you will about Halo, Master Chief is at least easier to identify with than that.

The whole point of Space Marines is to be better than every man. Humans arent meant to identify with them. Every single human in 40k knows they cant compare in any way to the His Space Marines.

WH40K SM > Mobile Infantry.
Stronger, faster, MUCH SMARTER, better weapons and armour and equipment, more purposeful motivation other than "HUR HUR, KILL DEM BUGZ!".
I mean, cmon. Why don't the future military have tanks?? Or at least APCs. No. Instead the Mobile(?) Infantry gotta walk everywhere and DIE ALOT. It takes 6 MIs to kill 1 bug. It takes 467 heretics to kill a Space Marine. If he's not looking. And in the shower.

P.S: Space Marines (According to the Black Library novels) have 3 lungs, 2 hearts and can eat anything that's even slighty edible.

The Moblie Infantry was one aspect of Humanitys military. They didnt need APC's cause they got the Navy to drop them where they were needed. They didnt need tanks cause the Navy just bombed the shit out of everything. Plus the power armour they did have (Cougars or something along those lines if I remeber correctly) could be considered tanks themselves. And thats the movie versions, who suck (see below).

Not necessarily. Remember that 40k marines are genocidal, will almost never retreat (that "No Retreat, No Surrender" rule comes to mind) and never question their orders.

On the other hand, Starship Troopers space marines are pretty much like the SEALS or Green Berets of today, but with more training and awesomesauce gear.

Ever heard of Captain Garro?
The rule is "... And They Shall Know No Fear".

The movie Starship Troopers are actually wearing the MI Scout Armour, so theyre not even Space Marines. Theyre more comparable to the Imperial Guard. The ones in the Animated Series are wearing Power Armour, making them closer to Space Marines. The book versions have even better armour than that and are Space Marines.

Anyways, current gen Space Marines are sucky as hell (Im talking 40k here). First gen SM could kick the shit out of anything. 1 Marine Vs. 100 Guardsmen, guess who'd win? These days, youd be lucky if a single Marine could take on half that. The only Marines who come close to first gen are the Custodian Guard (cause theyre better than first gen), the Space Wolf 1st Company (or the 10th. The one that was released for the Eye of Terror campaign, cant remember which) and any survivours of Garro's Company and thats cause they ARE first gen Marines.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Space marines existed before Warhammer you know.... They came up with all this stuff about insanely awesome space marines, the originals from Starship troopers were pretty bad ass though. Warhammer wasn't the original so don't compare shit to it.

It doesn't matter if WH40K invented space marines - they certainly brought the concept to the mainstream.

In fact, you can really look at two seperate universes in order to see examples of the two distinct breeds of space marine: WH40K and Aliens. In WH40K, space marines are hulking monstrosities literally built for war and are superior to a human in every way. Not content to let such beings be protect by anything short of their own personal tank or be armed with anything less than the equivalent of the doomcannon 9000, they are fittingly given immense suits of power armor and handed weapons that put those wielded by the average human to shame. Aliens on the other hand gives us, quite fittingly, a Marine who happens to be in space. With a few futuristic toys (mostly to help convince us that they are, in fact, in space) and fancier looking guns (Such as the M41 pulse rifle) this "less heroic" breed of space marine is capable of nothing more than what we normally associate with a normal human.

 

[Normeo]

Anyways, current gen Space Marines are sucky as hell (Im talking 40k here). First gen SM could kick the shit out of anything. 1 Marine Vs. 100 Guardsmen, guess who'd win? These days, youd be lucky if a single Marine could take on half that. The only Marines who come close to first gen are the Custodian Guard (cause theyre better than first gen), the Space Wolf 1st Company (or the 10th. The one that was released for the Eye of Terror campaign, cant remember which) and any survivours of Garro's Company and thats cause they ARE first gen Marines.

Marine commander, on a hover board, with a D cannon.... I concede!
Still can't beat the feeling of taking a space marine out with a las gun!