EDIT: Taking this down for use for another site. Lame, I know. Appreciated the discussion, everyone.
Spec Ops: The Line - A 2nd opinion? I don't know.
- Thread starter holdthephone
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Back from the land of the dead?
Anyway, we talked about Spec Ops a fair bit already, but there's one thing that really bugged me that I never mentioned before: the game's use of infinite respawns to funnel your actions. There were just too damn many times in the game where I thought to myself, "Wait, the last couple minutes of shooting have been entirely pointless - they'll only stop spawning if I move another fifty feet to the left".
The setup for the "mannequin scene" was the worst for that. The developers had this really cool bit that they badly wanted to show you, so they give you a situation where your squadmates are pinned by machine gun fire and you have to take a circuitous route to get behind the enemy. Except you don't actually, you can easily pick off your attackers with a sniper rifle. And I did so, for two or three minutes, watching identical copies of the guys I just decapitated take their scripted places and resume firing. I was too busy being irritated by this that I couldn't properly appreciate the legitimately cool mannequin scene.
In conclusion, RELOADING! COVER ME, I'M RELOADING! JUST WEIGHING ME DOWN!
Anyway, we talked about Spec Ops a fair bit already, but there's one thing that really bugged me that I never mentioned before: the game's use of infinite respawns to funnel your actions. There were just too damn many times in the game where I thought to myself, "Wait, the last couple minutes of shooting have been entirely pointless - they'll only stop spawning if I move another fifty feet to the left".
The setup for the "mannequin scene" was the worst for that. The developers had this really cool bit that they badly wanted to show you, so they give you a situation where your squadmates are pinned by machine gun fire and you have to take a circuitous route to get behind the enemy. Except you don't actually, you can easily pick off your attackers with a sniper rifle. And I did so, for two or three minutes, watching identical copies of the guys I just decapitated take their scripted places and resume firing. I was too busy being irritated by this that I couldn't properly appreciate the legitimately cool mannequin scene.
In conclusion, RELOADING! COVER ME, I'M RELOADING! JUST WEIGHING ME DOWN!
Just recounting the entire story and occasionally pausing to give your criticisms doesn't really constitute a review. More like a recap with a fews asides sprinkled throughout.
I personally liked it alot, but I'm not without my complaints. You criticize it for the way it demonizes you for the things you have no control over, but thats not really the case. While you can't change the course of some events, you're still the driving force that causes them. Without you, it doesn't get done, and that makes you an accomplice. This being the case, you stil have alot of choice to feel guilty over, so theres that.
I personally liked it alot, but I'm not without my complaints. You criticize it for the way it demonizes you for the things you have no control over, but thats not really the case. While you can't change the course of some events, you're still the driving force that causes them. Without you, it doesn't get done, and that makes you an accomplice. This being the case, you stil have alot of choice to feel guilty over, so theres that.
Recounting a game and pausing for criticism is pretty much a review. This piece is mostly chronological, maybe that's tacky? I don't know. There's a legitimate opinion in each paragraph here, but I mean hey, thanks for the feedback. I'll work on that.Mossberg Shotty said:
I just can't wrap my head around an excuse that lame. You're the accomplice, man, because you played the game.
I kept playing because Dubai was really beautifully done, and also because I'm not the type of guy to walk out on movies I'm not feeling, much less turn off a game because I'm a little offended. I spent money on it, so yes, I'll continue committing whatever horrible crimes it wants me to.
I'll destroy the city's entire water supply and pretend like that's completely logical.
Yeah yeah.The Crotch said:
I think my favorite A.I script was the poor guy who runs to meet you on the receiving end of the zip line. The moment you grab it he just comes out of nowhere and stands there for a good 5 seconds, and then *bam* - dramatic takedown.
And the whole mannequin thing, thought my videocard was done for. When I realized it was part of the game it was pretty cool, though.
I personally enjoyed this game, even after looking back at it and seeing that it is quite a railroad. But its a very enjoyable one. I was sucked into this world they fabricated, and for a good amount of time, I was Walker. I was immersed, and for a shooter, thats impressive. And for every flaw the game possesses, I still felt guilty after I "beat" the game. I actually thought about replaying the game to see if I could go back and play it through to prevent it. (Before the internet ruined it for me).
Im sure Im not the only one who feels that way about this game. Even with its issues. Easily my favorite game of last year. And so far this year.
Im sure Im not the only one who feels that way about this game. Even with its issues. Easily my favorite game of last year. And so far this year.
That's fair enough. That people found the game powerful doesn't surprise me, I'm just curious if anyone else felt rubbed the wrong way by the choice structure or the silliness of Walker.
Um. You were nice and vague about spoilers in the review itself, so you might want to tag the
bit in your reply, there. Just, y'know, for those super sensitive folks.
water supply
I finished this game not to long ago. I liked it, the story drew me in, the characters kept me engaged. After I finished and saw the ending, I put my controller down, and stared at the title screen for about 3 minutes. Trying to wrap my head around what had just happened. I hadn't had a game mess me up this bad mentally since I finished Heavy Rain. A game to this day I refuse to play again.
I saw the game as its HIS story. Not your story. Which is why the freedom of choice is lacking, its because it has nothing to do with the player, your just following the character, learning about him and his thoughts and experiences. Kinda like watching a movie or reading a book. I think i loved it because it blew me away, I played it with an underwhelming first opinion and wanted a game to kill a weekend. My expectations were low, especially the demo that played like a generic shooter...but i can say it was the only game i played last year that surprised me....the white phrosprus scene was shocking because you had to face what you just did. I think a lot of games dont give you that kind of reality of your actions......you bomb with fun. But then the aftermath. But the story was great, and the things that happened to you and how you lied to yourself to condone your actions. I hope this will let other companies write more personal stories than just another MW or Blops game.
Playing on the PC was really awful for me. The game looked great, but the game play was tedious, and movement felt like molasses; coupled with the incredibly awkward cover mechanics.
The constant enemy grind was tedious and boring.
I stopped playing sometime after "the infamous scene" that I was was apparently not supposed to see coming. Not because I felt bad, but because all I felt was boredom and slight bemusement the game thought this would shock me as some grand reveal. I should note that no "twist", were they actually supposed to be twists, surprised me as I saw them coming a long ways away (up to where I stopped playing).
The story just didn't do it for me. I didn't like the characters, I felt they weren't really developed well, or that I was attached to them, or that the drama meant anything, or that I cared to unveil "the mystery" that was unfolding. I just didn't care about any of it and had to shut off the yawn inducing game.
And the writing, really guys, it just wasn't that good. It was pulpy, shallow and ... well, mediocre. Is it better than pretty much every other shooter? Definitely, but that still doesn't make it good, in my opinion at least.
I guess, in short, a lot of the problem stems from me:
I only played this because I heard of it's super, amazing, ground breaking, unbelievable story full of twists. When you go in expecting that, and you get well... what it was, I think you'd be disappointed to. It's also something to go through a story LOOKING for what could be unreliably delivered to you as a player/reader, what shocking twists could be done, etc. This is, unfortunately, how I played it and I picked up on them all.
In the end, even if the game holds up a mirror and asks you to look at yourself and why you enjoyed killing everyone, it still wouldn't do it for me, because I didn't enjoy a single minute of the gameplay. I heard people say they felt so bad after the white phosphorous scene because it made them confront that they were killing indiscriminately for the fun of it, and they were having so much fun with the bomb camera.
I just don't know what was so "fun" about it. The scene was scripted, it was slow moving, it wasn't exciting and it was unchallenging; much like most of the game.
The constant enemy grind was tedious and boring.
I stopped playing sometime after "the infamous scene" that I was was apparently not supposed to see coming. Not because I felt bad, but because all I felt was boredom and slight bemusement the game thought this would shock me as some grand reveal. I should note that no "twist", were they actually supposed to be twists, surprised me as I saw them coming a long ways away (up to where I stopped playing).
The story just didn't do it for me. I didn't like the characters, I felt they weren't really developed well, or that I was attached to them, or that the drama meant anything, or that I cared to unveil "the mystery" that was unfolding. I just didn't care about any of it and had to shut off the yawn inducing game.
And the writing, really guys, it just wasn't that good. It was pulpy, shallow and ... well, mediocre. Is it better than pretty much every other shooter? Definitely, but that still doesn't make it good, in my opinion at least.
I guess, in short, a lot of the problem stems from me:
I only played this because I heard of it's super, amazing, ground breaking, unbelievable story full of twists. When you go in expecting that, and you get well... what it was, I think you'd be disappointed to. It's also something to go through a story LOOKING for what could be unreliably delivered to you as a player/reader, what shocking twists could be done, etc. This is, unfortunately, how I played it and I picked up on them all.
In the end, even if the game holds up a mirror and asks you to look at yourself and why you enjoyed killing everyone, it still wouldn't do it for me, because I didn't enjoy a single minute of the gameplay. I heard people say they felt so bad after the white phosphorous scene because it made them confront that they were killing indiscriminately for the fun of it, and they were having so much fun with the bomb camera.
I just don't know what was so "fun" about it. The scene was scripted, it was slow moving, it wasn't exciting and it was unchallenging; much like most of the game.
It's not the structure of your review, its the way it reads. Almost like a travel guide or something, mostly re-treading exposition thats already known to anyone who has played the game and has formed an opinion. I'm just assuming thats the type of person you're trying to attract to your thread, considering the whole "2nd opinion" thing?holdthephone said:
If you consider that a "lame excuse" then maybe this just isn't your cup of tea. It all comes back to the whole player-protagonist relationship. You're not always in control, but you are always the driving force. If you're not trying to get invested in the characters, then you shouldn't be surprised when you don't get an emotional response from them.
Hmm, all of your criticisms are aimed at things that are deliberately designed. You can cry all you want about the fact that the game forces you through the actions and "decisions" yet your reaction is exactly what they expect from someone who un-ironically enjoys the military shooter genre. I am sad to see that this game completely flew over your head.
Best game ever? Probably not. Best game of 2012? You bet your hindquarters it is.
Best game ever? Probably not. Best game of 2012? You bet your hindquarters it is.
Yea, gotta agree with you there, this feels like someone is saying "oh look, my opinion is contrary to the norm!"mrhateful said:
Also, these captchas are becoming incomprehensible. I'm not a computer, honest!
Yeah, thanks for hearing me out here. I'm not deliberately trying to go against the grain, I've just found myself in an odd position where I don't agree with either side. People either praise it as a powerful commentary or criticize it as a poorly executed cover shooter, which, as you said, is a boring way to go about a game like Spec Ops. I'm disagreeing with it on its own terms, or at least I hope I'm coming across that way.DeadpanLunatic said:
That the term linear has become synonymous with primitive has always bothered me. I don't mind set piece games, scripted events, or even the one choice veiled as many trick. I don't mind Walker's destruction being inevitable, and I don't mind the game crossing personal boundaries with that concept. But the way it insists upon itself after being so transparent from the get go, it just really started to grate on me. And I love introspective games like these, absolutely love them. Spec Ops should of been right up my alley, but instead it just reminded me of games that do these things much more elegantly.
I had just played Hotline Miami beforehand, for example, and what a game that was. It throws a similar curve ball at you halfway in and I'd wager nearly every player fell for it. It doesn't shout in your ear about what it's trying to make you feel, it's just designed to happen.
You walk into a building full of innocent civilians and just go to town on 'em. Strew the hallways with corpses and halfway into your murder spree you realize you've created the same scene from earlier in the game. Up until that point you have not questioned the reasoning behind your role in this game at all, largely because, you know, it's a lot of goddamn fun. And for the developer to have that much confidence that you'll fall for the trap, as fragile a trap that it is, it's just really impressive. They were so sure you'd kill those people that they risked being caught with their pants down, and they totally got away with it. But Spec Ops has its pants down from the start and acts like no one will notice. Man, my analogies are terrible.
Anyway, DPL, I don't think I can one up your response or even disagree with what you're saying because it's all very true. Thanks for recognizing that I'm just testing the waters here with a different opinion, and I always appreciate learning a thing or two. Really, I'd like to see more games like Spec Ops but would simply like to see them better handled.
TheRussian said:
Mossberg Shotty said:
I post opinions in the Community Review section because I hope to avoid this sort of thing, but I guess it just comes with message board territory. If it makes you feel any better, I don't agree with people who criticize Spec Ops either, like the other poster up there going on about clunky cover controls and awful dialogue. I disagree with him, I think he's exaggerating, and I don't look to him for gratification (sorry!). I'm not trying to hate a game here, that's ridiculous. I have specific issues with some of its ideas and I like to think I'm being clear about them.
I get that you'll group me in with the usual naysayers and dismiss me on that basis, but I hope I've earned a chance here.