Spec Ops: The Line;I now have PTSD.

[kanyewhite]

Spec Ops never made me feel bad. I know I'm a good person IRL, but that game TRIED to make you feel like a horrible human being in the worst way possible. Think about it, the main turning point in the game is something you are forced into by the game. It might be cool if the player himself had this big battle and then reverted to using the mortar. But of course, then If I didn't use it, the the game would not be able to continue. So, I don't understand how it makes you feel bad.

ALSO....SOOO OVERRATED. BUTTT.....I already made a sizable thread about thread on that.

 

[Woodsey]

It's nicely done, but it's also particularly navel-gazing and has to castrate its own gameplay in order to make its point. It's decent game-writing, but already I kind of feel as if the volume of praise Spec Ops has been given is leading to copycat stuff and weak defences of dodgy storytelling.

In the grand history of things, it won't matter.

You could say that about any ambitious (avant garde?) work, though. "Now that Ginsberg wrote Howl, shitty poets can just pretend they're trying to write something like that as a defense for their shitty poetry." Or Visions of Cody or Humanimal or Yellow Back Radio Broke-Down or whatever.

Navel-gazing? Why'd you find it to be that way? I actually found the game to be pregnant with some expansive criticisms. I definitely found it less navel-gazing than almost all the other shooters I've played (not that that's a defense of Spec Ops; just saying that I found it to have a lot to say outside of itself). As far as the gameplay, I found it decent; fun enough for me to play through the entire game in a single sitting, anyway. I don't really get what's supposed to be so bad about it. There was a lot of token stuff in the game (kill enemies with sand bits, for example) but otherwise, I found it pretty fun and decent. I don't play many shooters these days though, so maybe I don't have the most up-to-date thoughts on the subject and need to be enlightened. I just know I pointed the cursor, clicked, the bad guys fell down, and I felt that the weapons gave me decent feedback (played on PC, if that makes a difference).

'Avant garde' is really pushing it.

Anyway, that's true, that's more an issue I take with the somewhat overzealous reception it's received. It's good, I liked it, but if people keep overblowing the reaction to it then it's all we're gonna get. We've already had Far Cry 3's writer unable to tell the difference between what he intended to do, and what the game actually does.

And yeah, I would say navel-gazing. It is entirely concerned with its own genre and its presentation of 'heroes'. There really isn't that much criticism within it beyond that, and what's there isn't mind-bogglingly insightful. Moreover, the game itself has to face the inherent contention between criticising its own genre, and the fact that it doesn't actually play any differently to any other half-decent shooter. And it does all work, I admit, but the developers can't afford to pull that trick again.

So yeah, at the end of the day, it's just about itself. It's got a couple of neat little meta tricks up its sleeve when it comes to storytelling, but otherwise there's nothing ground-breaking in that regard, it's not devastatingly well-written, and it's not an overly-interesting play.

I really did like it, it's a fun little game to deconstruct. Like I said though, the gushing is starting to get a little overzealous, and in five years I very much doubt it'll be regarded as anywhere near as noteworthy as some people seem to think it is now.

 

[mad825]

PS - What choices did you make along your path?

lol, what? Spec ops had choice? One does not simply choose.

 

[Nachtmahr]

I only paid 7USD for this game and I am glad. I was utterly disgusted by SpecOps: The Line.

It was mostly the portrayal of the Special Forces soldiers that bothered me. Those are the most elite, badass warriors America can offer. To get to the point where they are sent on a highly dangerous mission like that, they need a mind made of steel. They need to be able to overcome the most horrific of situations. The way they broke down, the way they were downright unprofessional, was highly disrespectful to the real Special Forces.

I also did not feel bad for a single decision in the game. They did what needed to be done to get on with their mission. Anyone who is shocked by anything that happened in the game needs to open a history book about WW1 or WW2. Watch a video of the mountains of dead jews. That's true horror. This game was an insult and a pathetic attempt to manipulate the emotions of people.

 

[Single Shot]

I only paid 7USD for this game and I am glad. I was utterly disgusted by SpecOps: The Line.

It was mostly the portrayal of the Special Forces soldiers that bothered me. Those are the most elite, badass warriors America can offer. To get to the point where they are sent on a highly dangerous mission like that, they need a mind made of steel. They need to be able to overcome the most horrific of situations. The way they broke down, the way they were downright unprofessional, was highly disrespectful to the real Special Forces.

I also did not feel bad for a single decision in the game. They did what needed to be done to get on with their mission. Anyone who is shocked by anything that happened in the game needs to open a history book about WW1 or WW2. Watch a video of the mountains of dead jews. That's true horror. This game was an insult and a pathetic attempt to manipulate the emotions of people.

Okay, I just want to say that even SF soldiers can, and often do, break down after seeing the brutal realities of war. burning a few hundred civvies to death with WP then walking past their horrific final moments could do that to even the most battle hardened soldier.

and secondly, if you can find a game that tricks me into gassing a million Jews while thinking it's both a good idea and not questioning the idea then please tell me, because it's the way Spec Ops tricked me into acting that way that made it effective.

 

[Weaver]

How people feel bad after playing this game is beyond me.

Heavy handed attempts at emotional manipulation and mediocre gameplay pretty much cemented it as my 2nd most boring game of the year, right after AC3.

Glad I only played £6 for it, and I still feel a little ripped off.

I'm glad there are people out there who are with me on this!

It was further compounded by the praises of it's radiance by fans. I went into this game expecting a lot. I expected a fucking mindblowing narrative and some of the best characters I've seen in a game, with twists I couldn't see coming and a story that left me thinking.

I got none of these things.

 

[Woodsey]

I only paid 7USD for this game and I am glad. I was utterly disgusted by SpecOps: The Line.

It was mostly the portrayal of the Special Forces soldiers that bothered me. Those are the most elite, badass warriors America can offer. To get to the point where they are sent on a highly dangerous mission like that, they need a mind made of steel. They need to be able to overcome the most horrific of situations. The way they broke down, the way they were downright unprofessional, was highly disrespectful to the real Special Forces.

Showing three guys in an extraordinary situation losing their minds is not disrespectful to everyone in the profession. And it's not as if there hasn't been an analogue to the situation in real life before.

Yeah, Hitler gassed Jews. Doesn't make every action ever of the US military and its personnel excusable, irrelevant, or insignificant.

 

[Weaver]

Where the game excels is at making you think that you're doing heroic things, when you're really not.

This is what I just don't get.
I've never played, say, call of duty and thought "Man, I'm such a HERO killing all these people!"
And when I started playing Spec Ops the last thing running through my head was how good a guy I was for committing genocide, even in self defense.

I also called the 33 not actually being bad guys about 40 minutes into the game, so that "shocking twist" was yawn inducing.

I felt sick, literally ill in my stomach, when I got to that one part and it was revealed what I had done. Because I had enjoyed it at the time. Yahtzee really nailed it when he said that you needed to remember your feelings at the time of the slaughter. When I was doing it the first time and I saw all those white dots, I was like "Ooooh, good-BYE!" and fired and smiled as I watched them all burn.
Then the game made you walk through your own handiwork, see the pain and death you caused, and I found myself shooting the people crawling because I couldn't stand to see them suffer. And then the game hit me with the big one and I had to stop playing for a bit because I was not feeling well.

Maybe I'm a joyless person, because I enjoyed nothing about the combat in this game. At all.

 

[Nachtmahr]

Okay, I just want to say that even SF soldiers can, and often do, break down after seeing the brutal realities of war. burning a few hundred civvies to death with WP then walking past their horrific final moments could do that to even the most battle hardened soldier.

and secondly, if you can find a game that tricks me into gassing a million Jews while thinking it's both a good idea and not questioning the idea then please tell me, because it's the way Spec Ops tricked me into acting that way that made it effective.

Sorry, but no. Not a single member of the infantry has any illusions as to what their job is. It's to kill people. Special Forces undergo extensive training to understand that civilian causalities can happen, and how to mentally deal with it. A battle hardened soldier knows how to keep it sane, until such a moment where it is appropriate to grieve. The middle of a very important mission is not the place to lose your damn mind and go insane. Walkers' hallucinations put his team at risk. He was clearly unfit for duty.

As for your second point, you missed my point. I said that people are easily shocked these days and were clearly never exposed to real life horror. I saw those videos and they shocked me. This game did not, because it made me very aware that I was being manipulated. It was not a pinnacle of storytelling as I was lead to believe it was.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Spoiler

Right there I almost threw up. I just felt like such a horrible despicable human being. Sure I've blown up planets in other games but to have it thrown in my face like that, wow. OP, I feel your pain.

 

[Glasgow]

PS - What choices did you make along your path?

lol, what? Spec ops had choice? One does not simply choose.

A man chooses, A slave obeys.

This game had no choices. It only made for a fantastic narrative, especially for those who didn't see it coming.

 

[Single Shot]

Okay, I just want to say that even SF soldiers can, and often do, break down after seeing the brutal realities of war. burning a few hundred civvies to death with WP then walking past their horrific final moments could do that to even the most battle hardened soldier.

and secondly, if you can find a game that tricks me into gassing a million Jews while thinking it's both a good idea and not questioning the idea then please tell me, because it's the way Spec Ops tricked me into acting that way that made it effective.

Sorry, but no. Not a single member of the infantry has any illusions as to what their job is. It's to kill people. Special Forces undergo extensive training to understand that civilian causalities can happen, and how to mentally deal with it. A battle hardened soldier knows how to keep it sane, until such a moment where it is appropriate to grieve. The middle of a very important mission is not the place to lose your damn mind and go insane. Walkers' hallucinations put his team at risk. He was clearly unfit for duty.

As for your second point, you missed my point. I said that people are easily shocked these days and were clearly never exposed to real life horror. I saw those videos and they shocked me. This game did not, because it made me very aware that I was being manipulated. It was not a pinnacle of storytelling as I was lead to believe it was.

Okay, Sf soldiers DO suffer from mental disorders, I know an ex-para with PTSD who can't go near loud noises or small areas without suffering flashbacks. He knew his job was to kill, and he did, but understanding that and doing are not the same. no amount of training can make people immunte to breaking either, some people can take it, others can't, they have to fight and kill before they really find out, and as i said earlier burning a few hundred civvies to death is a fairly extreme situation that is NOT THE OBJECTIVE OF ANY MODERN ARMIES MISSION, and so not something they would be hardened against.

and the second point still stands, i don't care if this generations terror is 'better' than the last generations, it's still the mass slaughter of innocent civilians even if it is on a smaller scale. This is a game. You made the decision to kill those people, most of us didn't even flinch as the WP dropped, some of us even smiled and cheered as the white dots burned.
You went into the game knowing it was going to trick you and so you didn't make that decision, you saw the trap and were forced into it, some of us hit that trap becasue we were chasing the next big fight, the next great kill, or the next 'Hero' moment.


and yes, he was unfit for duty, but who was going to replace him in the middle of the fight with no communications to the 'outside' and no backup?

 

[Truglington]

PTSD from a game. Lol. I hope that's hyperbole.

 

[Nachtmahr]

Okay, Sf soldiers DO suffer from mental disorders, I know an ex-para with PTSD who can't go near loud noises or small areas without suffering flashbacks. He knew his job was to kill, and he did, but understanding that and doing are not the same. no amount of training can make people immunte to breaking either, some people can take it, others can't, they have to fight and kill before they really find out, and as i said earlier burning a few hundred civvies to death is a fairly extreme situation that is NOT THE OBJECTIVE OF ANY MODERN ARMIES MISSION, and so not something they would be hardened against.

and the second point still stands, i don't care if this generations terror is 'better' than the last generations, it's still the mass slaughter of innocent civilians even if it is on a smaller scale. This is a game. You made the decision to kill those people, most of us didn't even flinch as the WP dropped, some of us even smiled and cheered as the white dots burned.
You went into the game knowing it was going to trick you and so you didn't make that decision, you saw the trap and were forced into it, some of us hit that trap becasue we were chasing the next big fight, the next great kill, or the next 'Hero' moment.


and yes, he was unfit for duty, but who was going to replace him in the middle of the fight with no communications to the 'outside' and no backup?

Soldiers who can't take it generally don't make it into Special Forces, much less staying there for very long. If a Special Forces soldier got PTSD and is prone to getting it, they aren't sent on active missions any more. This is why Walker is not believable to me. He was the squad leader on a very dangerous and important mission. That means he would have had to have experience. But he went crazy and started hallucinating? I don't buy it.

They took Walkers' back (in my endgame at least) but he was done for. He would never have been in command again. At the very least, the game gives a terrible idea of what PTSD really is.

 

[DioWallachia]

So I just finished my first playthrough of Spec Ops: The Line, and I need someone to tell me I'm a good person. I literally feel such self-loathing right now.

When I was asked to make decisions, I felt I was making the right decisions at the time, in the context of what was occurring around me. Then, at the ending sequence, I began to reflect on all the choices I had made, and realized every single one was a horrible decision. Each one was viewed in a larger context, and revealed how wrong I was. (Trying mightily to not give spoilers here!)

I know I'm pretty far behind the curve here on experiencing this game, but please, someone help me. I haven't been made to feel this way about a game, ever. Even when I was in Iraq, the things that occurred over there didn't phase me as bad as this did. What an amazing story.

Unfortunately, in the end, I just couldn't let myself get away with the atrocities. Brilliant game writing here folks.

PS - What choices did you make along your path?

Read this, and your mind will find peace:

http://theshillinfield.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/spec-ops-the-line-is-a-bad-videogame/
http://theshillinfield.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/spec-ops-the-line-is-still-a-bad-videogame/#more-95

 

[Bestival]

Meh, I mostly let my psychopathic tendacies run wild when gaming, so nothing in this game really phased me. Did like the twist at the ending though, but it didn't change any of my choices.
I still wont waste my only bullet on someone who's going to die soon anyway, and I would still pick the lives of fellow soldiers over that of locals/strangers because that just makes sense to me from a roleplaying point of view.

 

[Single Shot]

Okay, Sf soldiers DO suffer from mental disorders, I know an ex-para with PTSD who can't go near loud noises or small areas without suffering flashbacks. He knew his job was to kill, and he did, but understanding that and doing are not the same. no amount of training can make people immunte to breaking either, some people can take it, others can't, they have to fight and kill before they really find out, and as i said earlier burning a few hundred civvies to death is a fairly extreme situation that is NOT THE OBJECTIVE OF ANY MODERN ARMIES MISSION, and so not something they would be hardened against.

and the second point still stands, i don't care if this generations terror is 'better' than the last generations, it's still the mass slaughter of innocent civilians even if it is on a smaller scale. This is a game. You made the decision to kill those people, most of us didn't even flinch as the WP dropped, some of us even smiled and cheered as the white dots burned.
You went into the game knowing it was going to trick you and so you didn't make that decision, you saw the trap and were forced into it, some of us hit that trap becasue we were chasing the next big fight, the next great kill, or the next 'Hero' moment.


and yes, he was unfit for duty, but who was going to replace him in the middle of the fight with no communications to the 'outside' and no backup?

Soldiers who can't take it generally don't make it into Special Forces, much less staying there for very long. If a Special Forces soldier got PTSD and is prone to getting it, they aren't sent on active missions any more. This is why Walker is not believable to me. He was the squad leader on a very dangerous and important mission. That means he would have had to have experience. But he went crazy and started hallucinating? I don't buy it.

They took Walkers' back (in my endgame at least) but he was done for. He would never have been in command again. At the very least, the game gives a terrible idea of what PTSD really is.

He went crazy after killing HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS!!!!!!!
He killed hundreds of innocent people, then faced their burned bodies while others screamed in pain as WP seared into their skin and the smell of burned flesh filled the air.
and you cant to say that should have no effect on his mental health? really?
Before that the guy was cold, but professional. after that he started to realize what he did.
And that is what made him a believable character, because he was the player. At the start the player saw it as another war game and enjoyed killing, then the WP incident made us rethink what we were doing so we started to change our minds while still pushing on with the story. by the time we decide what we're doing is wrong and without justification it's too late to change anything, we can only continue in the hope it will get better becasue the protagonist, us, wants to help and is trying to make it better.

Oh, and does the game say he gets another command? no. in that endgame the other soldier comment on his state and treat him properly, getting him to disarm and making sure Walker knew they were friends. What would you have them do to this mentally unstable, armed, highly trained, soldier in the middle of post-disaster dubai? leave him out there? kill him? what?

 

[Goofguy]

That's because the game forces you in to all those crappy decisions and situations. There were times when I could see it coming but there was no way I could proceed in the game unless I went through with it:

Spoiler: Case in point

In the infamous mortar scene where you accidentally kill the few dozen civilians, I initially saw them on the camera and tried to avoid hitting them. But there was no way the game was going to let me circumvent that, I had to hit the vehicle and burn the civilians with the collateral damage.

Spoiler: Hell, maybe it makes me an asshole but

I opened fire on the angry mob of civilians because it seemed like the next logical step in the protagonist's descent in to madness.

Ultimately, I didn't feel like this character was an extension of me or a vessel of my choices. The game played like I was the one driving the character on a one lane, one way, no brakes road of shitty decisions.

 

[Nachtmahr]

He went crazy after killing HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS!!!!!!!
He killed hundreds of innocent people, then faced their burned bodies while others screamed in pain as WP seared into their pain and the smell of burned flesh filled the air.
and you cant to say that should have no effect on his mental health? really?
Before that the guy was cold, but professional. after that he started to realize what he did.
And that is what made him a believable character, because he was the player. At the start the player saw it as another war game and enjoyed killing, then the WP incident made us rethink what we were doing so we started to change our minds while still pushing on with the story. by the time we decide what we're doing is wrong and without justification it's too late to change anything, we can only continue in the hope it will get better becasue the protagonist, us, wants to help and is trying to make it better.

I suppose that's the problem of the game. It forces you to be unprofessional and stupid. That mass of white dots trying desperately to get away were clearly civilians, but we had to kill them and feel bad.

What I'm saying is, that he should have had the mental resilience to deal with it. He was Special Operations. The best of the best, handpicked for a mission that had slim chances of success. He should have been prepared for the absolute worst. I felt no pity for him. He made a bad situation worse with his insanity.