Speculation on a new FPS health system.

[Jumplion]

This idea has been thought to death, seriously, I'm sure everyone has thought this idea up before and thought to themselves "Hur hur, I bet nobody thought of this before!". I'm sure that in certain games it could work (Survival Horror, extreme-to-the-E realistic shooters), but the main reason why we have games where you can take 15 bullets to the chest and survive is because gamers want to spend less time spazzing out and scrounging for health packs and do, you know, more game-y parts of the damn game.

Now, look, I'm not trying to insult you here. I'm sure in certain games that this system would work, and I would love to see some games employ that method (including the blood-loss and after-shock, not just limb-based damage). But everybody has thought of this idea already. Health systems haven't really evolved because they're simple enough as is, there's not much you can improve upon the mechanic that tells you if you're going to die or not.

 

[SnowdensOfYesteryear]

I'm gonna take a moment to point out that there is no non-lethal or safe place to be shot. Contrary to a lot of beliefs, a shot in the leg or arms, or chest, or head (prettymuch any place but the ass, which is... kinda funny, actually) will kill you at a decent pace, unless you get pretty lucky with the whole vital organs thing.

It would take quite a bit of processing power to keep track of vital organs, in full-3D, and to know where each part is and where getting shot would affect, bullet trajectories, speed, type of weapon, yadda yadda. Only games I can think of are in ASCII (Liberal Crime Squad, Dwarf Fortress.)

...That, and it's not marketable to say "ULTRA-REALISTIC! WILL DIE IN ONE SHOT!" because, let's face it, the people who buy shooters aren't usually doing it for realism. If they were, they'd probably play a tabletop game. One of the realistic tabletop games.

 

[Nouw]

Combat Arms had that to an extent.

 

[Deacon Cole]

There is nothing realistic about regenerating health. I do not understand how ducking behind a big rock and waiting 5 seconds for the 15 bullet wounds you just received to magically heal themselves. Heck, it's worse than health bars in terms of realisim, yet people love it for basically any FPS. So here, we discuss how to improve or totally revamp the current way of tallying up damage in an FPS, for those that dislike the feeling of your legs regrowing a couple seconds after being hit by a mortar.

Any kind of health/hit system is going to be unrealistic no matter what you do. Realistically, one hit means you're either dead or laid up for a few months in a hospital. Even minor bullet woulds cause a great deal of system shock that will take every ounce of fight out of you.

Personally, I think any call for realism in a game is a waste of time. Games are an abstraction. So a better focus is on what would make for a better game. If it's fun, reality can go fuck itself.

Now, regenerating health probably can go fuck itself less because it's unrealistic but because squatting under a table for ten minutes is not a thrill-a-minute game experience, now is it? You could press on with lowered health, but if you can sit and wait, you would be an idiot not to. This is where health packs and power-ups had it all over regenerating health. Just grab it and you gain your health back or whatever.

So, rather than looking at this from the wrong end, instead of asking what would be more realistic, ask yourself what would be more fun when playing?

Do you think this area location/blood loss/pain idea would be fun?

If so, why?

Because I'll tell you right now, reality is not much fun. This is why we play games.

 

[Blue Musician]

I for one am sick of all these realistic shooters. What is there to be sick of? The regenerating health system that plagues them. Over the years, gaming's really only taken one big leap in the area of health systems, and it's generally moved towards this regenerating health that we see in basically every new FPS that's released.
There is nothing realistic about regenerating health. I do not understand how ducking behind a big rock and waiting 5 seconds for the 15 bullet wounds you just received to magically heal themselves. Heck, it's worse than health bars in terms of realisim, yet people love it for basically any FPS. So here, we discuss how to improve or totally revamp the current way of tallying up damage in an FPS, for those that dislike the feeling of your legs regrowing a couple seconds after being hit by a mortar.


I personally would want a totally new system that would keep track of almost every part of the body and then adapt towards that. It'd not only look at individual damage (i.e. get shot in the leg and start hobbling around,) but also total blood loss and pain your character receives. You might get shot in the arm 15 times and still live, but a shot to the femoral artery will kill you. But if you get to it quickly enough and bandage it up or put on a tourniquet, you might be able to buy yourself half the battle. But if you sustain enough damage and don't succumb to your wounds, your character might be freaking out just a bit over this, shaking, looking around everywhere and generally being a ***** to control.
I can only begin to imagine how much memory and processing power that'd require, but computers are making amazing leaps, right? But I know that regenerating health is in FPSs for a reason. I assume that that's to allow players to Rambo into a room, get shot 5 times but survive and kill all the baddies, and get to the next round of enemies good as new. If the system was to keep track of previous damage like this, it'd probably mess with that mindset a lot. But, it could improve teamwork by making people work together to take out enemies and care for eachother's health like that very first Bad Company 2 trailer, instead of going solo a la MW2.

So, what's your dream way of health being counted in a FPS? I'd like to hear ideas! I know I'm not the only one sick of regenerating health.

Although it's a good idea, Call of Cthulhu did that, but it wasn't very good implemented, but it was far better than the regenerating health system and the healthkit one.

 

[Mcupobob]

The problem with realistic shooters of any kind is that realistically, one shot to almost anywhere on your body would put your out of commission. If anything, Halo, the game that started the regeneration mechanic, is one of the most realistic shooters there is. They have an excuse in the whole "super armor" thing.

Not so. There are plenty of instances (notably off the top of my head that FBI shootout in Miami or something) where unarmoured people have taken tonnes of bullets but lived for long enough to keep fighting for a while. To a motivated soldier, a bullet to the calf wouldn't really put him out of comission.

Sorry but what I got from that post was if your motivated enough bullets won't hurt as much or kill you right away?

OT: Sounds fun but I want to see a good shooter that forgets realism for once.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

I still say segmented health is the way to go.

To see it in action play Resistance Fall of Man and/or Far Cry 2.

Basically you get a health bar split into segments, and it regenerates only up whatever segment still has health in it, but isn't full.

That way we have the best of both worlds.

There are still health packs, but you don't have to put them anywhere and everywhere, and your heath does regenerate to an extent, so you won't be completely fucked during any enemy encounters.

The Chronicles Of Riddick games had this.

That. I still think that game (err, those games I guess) had the best health system...

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Regenerating is popular because it works well as a health system. Don't fix what isn't broke. Go for complete realism and you will just end up overcomplicating things. And a return to the olden days of med-kits is not something I want to see.

 

[-Samurai-]

who plays FPS for realism?????

Probably the people that buy the shooters that are closer to realistic versus fantasy or sci-fi shooters.

While the OPs idea would be excellent(as long as games had a medic class for more advanced healing), at this point, I'd settle for more advanced area based damage. There's no reason for you to be able to shoot back at me after I put a few bullets in your neck. I'd love to see anyone be able to hold a gun after I hit them in the shoulder with a .50 caliber round.

 

[boeingguy787]

what about all the Ghost Recon games? You start with a green "health marker". one hit turns it to yellow, another to red, and a third kills you (on normal difficulty). Plus, on most levels, you don't have access to any type of healing (unless you have a medic with you). It even hampered you depending where you got shot. A hit in the leg will make you limp, one in the chest will slow you, and one in the arm will reduce your aiming.

I thought it was neat.

(this comment was based mostly on ghost recon: advanced war-fighter 2)

 

[Caligulove]

I like the idea, but for me the biggest problem with that is still that that doesn't sound fun. And thats the biggest reason I play games like that are for the escape and the fun that comes from that.

It would be best used for a simulator, not a shooter. It's definitely not for everyone.

And as for regen. system. I actually thought it was best in Halo:CE. keeps you alive long enough to be willing to move out of cover and attack, yet still punishes by being incredibly easy to kill when your shields go down, the longer you stray from health packs.

 

[migo]

Probably detailed damage wouldn't work, but having it only take a few shots to take you out of commission would be realistic. Health packs aren't that realistic either, so simply having health go down, and eventually out is the way to go. It would completely take you out of the guns blazing approach and make it much more of a stealth shooter system, but with games moving towards cover this makes sense.

Segmented health bars also work I think, it's a good middle ground.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

Contextual damage has been a difficult thing to program in a realistic way. I was overjoyed to see that Red Dead Redemption had used the bio-mechanical AI Euphoria engine for context on people taking bullets, but I don't think it really makes that big of an effect when you get shot.

Eventually when people get a little more comfortable with Euphoria, I would LOVE to see it more and more, much like how HAVOK is showing up everywhere nowadays.

 

[Huxleykrcc]

How's this: you get shot, you die.

Sound fun? No. Realistic? More or less. Yes, I know one shot isn't always (or even nearly always) immediately fatal, but you get my point. I don't care what's realistic; I care what's FUN.

I think regenerating is a good system. Not perfect; sure as hell not realistic, either. But it's a GAME mechanic that works well for a good, balanced GAME.

 

[Vrach]

Regenerating health > old systems. Health booster packs are just as bollox and they disrupt the flow far more than the regen system. The realism thing isn't in the "well, your leg grows back in 5 seconds", in terms of that, you don't carry a health kit to stitch a leg back up with you anyway, nor can you do it in the space of a few seconds health packs take to take effect. The realism part comes in the fact that it doesn't disrupt your gameplay (not saving/proceeding cause you're low on health and don't have a lot of health packs and you know a nasty part/boss fight is coming up) and the fact that if something hit close enough to injure you, your first thought would be "get to cover".

But then again I just like the system so I'm biased. Anyway, concerning your second paragraph, not sure if anyone said it yet, but you have something a bit like that in Fallout 3. You have the usual health bar and health "pots" but you also have more permanent body damage with their own consequences - if you're shot in the leg, you're slower, if you're shot in the arm, your aim is weaker, I believe head trauma causes dizziness or sth... haven't played it in a while

edit: in fact, Far Cry 2 literally has this system - normal health bar and health booster packs, but "grave wounds" force you to deal with them soon or die (they bring your health really low). If you haven't played it, I'd say go for it cause it sounds right up your alley!

Personally I approve of your idea though! But - keep in mind what you're talking about is really not suited to "shooters", they're generally more aimed at the multiplayer audience and fast gameplay. It'd fit much better in some thriller games and RPGs. I would put some kind of a "diminishing returns" effect on it though.

I mean, you get shot, bullet nicks an artery, you're bleeding everywhere, it's the first time - you freak out etc. After a while, for each time that gets avoided or you practice that skill otherwise (just to support the stealth gameplay where the character might not get shot as much), your character grows more calm, learns to deal with the situation etc. I mean, freaking out every time you get shot, even if it's a grave wound, would just grow stale over the duration of the game.

Again though, this kind of health managment system is more suited to a specific type of gameplay - for general purposes self regenerating health and health boost packs are simply more convenient for any game that doesn't want to break it's flow every few seconds over injuries.

 

[Calhoun347]

I don't like regenerative health, I like the old days of Health kits. It's not too realistic, but it means that you actually have to have some skill to get from point A to point B. Where even if you totally sucked, all you'd have to do is take cover for a little while to get from Point A to Point B. Plus, With regenerative health, you never get that feeling of "Oh shit, I've only got 20 HP left!) where the next little bit you are completely on edge. It's a pretty big immersion killer for me.

What I REALLY hate, is that, In Halo CE(Which made it super-popular) it at least made sense, (With the lore). But to just pop it into any game really gets my goat.

 

[Protocol Droid]

Regenerating is popular because it works well as a health system. Don't fix what isn't broke. Go for complete realism and you will just end up overcomplicating things. And a return to the olden days of med-kits is not something I want to see.

This. I'm sick of the whole discussion about realism. FPSs are all about action, and imo regenerating health is a perfect system to use in order to keep things flowing fast.
Of course there are exceptions (tactical shooters and whatnot), but I think regenerating health works just fine in most FPSs.

 

[Huxleykrcc]

I don't like regenerative health, I like the old days of Health kits. It's not too realistic, but it means that you actually have to have some skill to get from point A to point B. Where even if you totally sucked, all you'd have to do is take cover for a little while to get from Point A to Point B. Plus, With regenerative health, you never get that feeling of "Oh shit, I've only got 20 HP left!) where the next little bit you are completely on edge. It's a pretty big immersion killer for me.

What I REALLY hate, is that, In Halo CE(Which made it super-popular) it at least made sense, (With the lore). But to just pop it into any game really gets my goat.

Again, why does it need to make sense?

 

[Deadlock Radium]

I for one am sick of all these realistic shooters. What is there to be sick of? The regenerating health system that plagues them. Over the years, gaming's really only taken one big leap in the area of health systems, and it's generally moved towards this regenerating health that we see in basically every new FPS that's released.
There is nothing realistic about regenerating health. I do not understand how ducking behind a big rock and waiting 5 seconds for the 15 bullet wounds you just received to magically heal themselves. Heck, it's worse than health bars in terms of realisim, yet people love it for basically any FPS. So here, we discuss how to improve or totally revamp the current way of tallying up damage in an FPS, for those that dislike the feeling of your legs regrowing a couple seconds after being hit by a mortar.


I personally would want a totally new system that would keep track of almost every part of the body and then adapt towards that. It'd not only look at individual damage (i.e. get shot in the leg and start hobbling around,) but also total blood loss and pain your character receives. You might get shot in the arm 15 times and still live, but a shot to the femoral artery will kill you. But if you get to it quickly enough and bandage it up or put on a tourniquet, you might be able to buy yourself half the battle. But if you sustain enough damage and don't succumb to your wounds, your character might be freaking out just a bit over this, shaking, looking around everywhere and generally being a ***** to control.
I can only begin to imagine how much memory and processing power that'd require, but computers are making amazing leaps, right? But I know that regenerating health is in FPSs for a reason. I assume that that's to allow players to Rambo into a room, get shot 5 times but survive and kill all the baddies, and get to the next round of enemies good as new. If the system was to keep track of previous damage like this, it'd probably mess with that mindset a lot. But, it could improve teamwork by making people work together to take out enemies and care for eachother's health like that very first Bad Company 2 trailer, instead of going solo a la MW2.

So, what's your dream way of health being counted in a FPS? I'd like to hear ideas! I know I'm not the only one sick of regenerating health.

SWAT 4 already had a mechanic like that. Even Counter-Strike, to some extent, had something like that.

But then again, the hitboxes in Counter-Strike was utter rubbish.
I'd like to see a system like that, with blood-trails too, so you could track down a wounded enemy. It would be very awesome.

 

[SnowdensOfYesteryear]

I don't like regenerative health, I like the old days of Health kits. It's not too realistic, but it means that you actually have to have some skill to get from point A to point B. Where even if you totally sucked, all you'd have to do is take cover for a little while to get from Point A to Point B. Plus, With regenerative health, you never get that feeling of "Oh shit, I've only got 20 HP left!) where the next little bit you are completely on edge. It's a pretty big immersion killer for me.

What I REALLY hate, is that, In Halo CE(Which made it super-popular) it at least made sense, (With the lore). But to just pop it into any game really gets my goat.

Again, why does it need to make sense?

Why don't you insert a gigantic rocket launcher that shoots penguins into a (self-proclaimed) realistic shooter?