Speed of light broken again as scientists test neutrino result.

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zombie goat fetish

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The speed of light appears to have been broken again after scientists carried out a new set of experiments to test measurements that could require the laws of physics to be rewritten.

Scientists have posted new results that confirm measurements made in September that a beam of subatomic particles had travelled faster than the speed of light.
The initial result caused widespread debate as it appeared to break one of the most fundamental laws of physics ? that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
The findings have proved troubling for scientists as it goes against Albert Einstein's law of special relativity and opens up the possibility of being able to send information back in time.
The researchers behind the experiments, which involved sending neutrino particles 450 miles through the ground from the CERN facility in Geneva to the Gran Sasso laboratory in Italy, have now attempted to rule out one possible source of error.
By tweaking the experiment in an attempt to address a potential flaw in their original experiment, they again showed that the neutrons arrived at the Italian site some 60 billionths of a second faster than if they had been travelling at the speed of light.

The European Organisation for Nuclear Research, or CERN as it is known, said: "This test confirms the accuracy of the timing measurement, ruling out one potential source of systematic error.
"The new measurements do not change the initial conclusion.
"Nevertheless, the observed anomaly in the neutrinos time of flight from CERN to Gran Sasso still needs further scrutiny and independent measurement before it can be refuted or confirmed."
When scientists announced they had measured neutrinos apparently breaking the speed of light in September the result drew mixed reactions from scientists.
Professor Brian Cox, a particle physicist at the University of Manchester and TV presenter, said it would be the most profound discovery in physics for more than a century.
Fellow TV presenter Professor Jim Al-Khalili, a physicist at University of Surrey, said that if the findings were proved to be correct, "I will eat my boxer shorts on live TV".
Speaking after the most recent announcement, Professor Al-Khalili said: "I am not yet ready to get out my knife and fork.
"The results have dealt with some possible errors. There are still a number of other possible errors and uncertainties that they are working on ruling out."
The scientists behind the experiments, who are part of the Oscillation Project with Emulsion Tracking Apparatus, or Opera, collaboration, had conducted more than 15,000 measurements over three years before announcing their results.
They used 10 microsecond long pulses of neutrinos in the initial experiment, but other scientists pointed out that this could be a potential source of error as the pulses were relatively long compared to the difference in time being measured.
In the new test they used shorter pulses of neutrinos, at around three nanoseconds, so they could time the arrival of the neutrinos with greater accuracy.
When the Opera team ran the improved experiment 20 times, they found almost exactly the same result.
It has been posted to the Arxiv repository and submitted to the Journal of High Energy Physics, but has not yet been reviewed by the scientific community.
Fernando Ferroni, president of Italian Institute for Nuclear Physics and spokesman for the Opera consortium, said: "A measurement so delicate and carrying a profound implication on physics requires an extraordinary level of scrutiny.
"The positive outcome of the test makes us more confident in the result, although a final word can only be said by analogous measurements performed elsewhere in the world."
Other groups of scientists are now also working to repeat the findings independently and a consortium of American, Russian and British scientists are planning to send neutrinos from a laboratory in Chicago to the Canadian border to test the results.
Dr Giles Barr, a physicist at Oxford University who is involved the experiments in the US, said: "It's a very intriguing result. The thing that is needed is for more physicists to independently verify what is happening.
"They have done a very careful job of this and trying to look at all the individual details that could fake this effect. They couldn't find anything. It is fantastic.
"They have brought up some other tests they can do to check what is happening and the checks have shown what you might expect if the neutrinos are travelling faster than the speed of light.
"We are going to try to do it ourselves."
He added that if proved correct it could have some profound implications for the current understanding of how the universe works.
He said: "We have this notion from Einstein himself that particles cannot travel faster than the speed of light ? that light itself is the thing that travels the fastest.
"The profound thing that could happen here is that some people in a very fast spaceship could actually observe these neutrinos leaving after they have arrived in the place where we have seen them.
"In other words time could be travelling in reverse. It is a very mind boggling thing."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8901001/Speed-of-light-broken-again-as-scientists-test-neutrino-result.html
 

enzilewulf

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Once this is more peer reviewed and re done by independent sources I will be happy to accept it. The only thing that worries me is the amount of Bias the experiment could possibly have. Think of it. You found something faster than the speed of light. If this is correct you have not only made history, but you may have found that everything thing we known to be true to be false. Think of it
"In other words time could be travelling in reverse. It is a very mind boggling thing."
Time going in reverse? That would be something.

"possibility of being able to send information back in time."
This alone, if prove true, could even affect our understanding of history. I can't wait for conclusion from more independent sources.

This is truly astounding.
 

Thaluikhain

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enzilewulf said:
Once this is more peer reviewed and re done by independent sources I will be happy to accept it. The only thing that worries me is the amount of Bias the experiment could possibly have. Think of it. You found something faster than the speed of light. If this is correct you have not only made history, but you may have found that everything thing we known to be true to be false. Think of it
Not that unusual, really. Any big discovery threatens to do this. To be fair, you get all sorts of bullshit with controversial stuff (remember all the "Aliens built the pyramids" crap?), but it gets shouted down by people who know what they are talking about.

Though, it's not going to prove that everything we know is wrong. We are going to amend our knowledge, due to this or other things, but our incomplete knowledge of the universe has allowed us as a species to do all sorts of fancy things. GPS systems aren't going to suddenly never have worked, for example.
 

enzilewulf

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thaluikhain said:
enzilewulf said:
Once this is more peer reviewed and re done by independent sources I will be happy to accept it. The only thing that worries me is the amount of Bias the experiment could possibly have. Think of it. You found something faster than the speed of light. If this is correct you have not only made history, but you may have found that everything thing we known to be true to be false. Think of it
Though, it's not going to prove that everything we know is wrong. We are going to amend our knowledge, due to this or other things, but our incomplete knowledge of the universe has allowed us as a species to do all sorts of fancy things. GPS systems aren't going to suddenly never have worked, for example.
Oh I understand that I am just saying that this is pretty awesome. It really blows my mind.
 

Thaluikhain

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enzilewulf said:
thaluikhain said:
enzilewulf said:
Once this is more peer reviewed and re done by independent sources I will be happy to accept it. The only thing that worries me is the amount of Bias the experiment could possibly have. Think of it. You found something faster than the speed of light. If this is correct you have not only made history, but you may have found that everything thing we known to be true to be false. Think of it
Though, it's not going to prove that everything we know is wrong. We are going to amend our knowledge, due to this or other things, but our incomplete knowledge of the universe has allowed us as a species to do all sorts of fancy things. GPS systems aren't going to suddenly never have worked, for example.
Oh I understand that I am just saying that this is pretty awesome. It really blows my mind.
Eh, I can't get too excited. Though, it helps I don't really understand physics that well anyway, a radical change would probably pass me by.
 

Versuvius

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They have yet to check if the clocks are synched. That could very well be the issue. Boggles the mind they didn't think of this before.
 

Something Amyss

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Versuvius said:
They have yet to check if the clocks are synched. That could very well be the issue. Boggles the mind they didn't think of this before.
Wait, what?

Are you serious?

Jeez. Sounds like a pretty basic thing to miss.
 

Versuvius

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Versuvius said:
They have yet to check if the clocks are synched. That could very well be the issue. Boggles the mind they didn't think of this before.
Wait, what?

Are you serious?

Jeez. Sounds like a pretty basic thing to miss.
After this second run it occured to one of them that the clocks might be out of synch in the very smallest of amounts, but when testing things moving at such speeds it becomes a big discepency.
 

Something Amyss

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Versuvius said:
After this second run it occured to one of them that the clocks might be out of synch in the very smallest of amounts, but when testing things moving at such speeds it becomes a big discepency.
Oi. What an error to make.
 

omicron1

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Most likely reasoning, from my view: Light does not travel at the absolute speed limit of the universe - just close to it. No time travel involved; just a slight modification of c.
 

Aiedail256

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Versuvius said:
They have yet to check if the clocks are synched. That could very well be the issue. Boggles the mind they didn't think of this before.
Wow, this is what I guessed was the problem when we heard about the original measurement -_-
Talk about fail
 

Redingold

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omicron1 said:
Most likely reasoning, from my view: Light does not travel at the absolute speed limit of the universe - just close to it. No time travel involved; just a slight modification of c.
Do you know why light travels at c? It's because it's massless. If light did not travel at c, it has mass. If light has no mass, it has to travel at c.
 

omicron1

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Redingold said:
omicron1 said:
Most likely reasoning, from my view: Light does not travel at the absolute speed limit of the universe - just close to it. No time travel involved; just a slight modification of c.
Do you know why light travels at c? It's because it's massless. If light did not travel at c, it has mass. If light has no mass, it has to travel at c.
If light has mass (however slight), it travels at slightly under c. These neutrinos, therefore, may well be able to exceed its speed and approach the true c - the true universal speed limit.

Assuming, of course, a whole mess of things - foremost among them the idea that this experiment is not a fluke.
 

Thaius

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Can someone explain to me why nothing can travel faster than the speed of light? I'm no physicist, so I just don't know the science behind it, but logically it doesn't make sense to me. Just because it's the fastest natural thing we know about doesn't mean nothing can ever go faster than it. I don't get why anything would be "the absolute fastest anything can move." Anyone care to explain how that reasoning works?
 

Quaxar

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enzilewulf said:
"possibility of being able to send information back in time."
This alone, if prove true, could even affect our understanding of history. I can't wait for conclusion from more independent sources.
"To: Teddy Roosevelt
Dear Teddy, how's it going? Awaiting reply in history books."

Nonsense, why would we send information back in time? I say let's just wait for the people of the future to send information to us. Why should we in the present always be the ones to begin stuff?
 

true story

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Thaius said:
Can someone explain to me why nothing can travel faster than the speed of light? I'm no physicist, so I just don't know the science behind it, but logically it doesn't make sense to me. Just because it's the fastest natural thing we know about doesn't mean nothing can ever go faster than it. I don't get why anything would be "the absolute fastest anything can move." Anyone care to explain how that reasoning works?
because "if i remember right" the faster you move to the speed of light the more mass you acquire which means you need more energy to push your forward. And it gets to the point where you have infinite mass and not enough energy to keep up and continue increasing speed so you start to slow down. the reason why light can move so fast as stated before is because light is nearly massless. im not sure this is right but i think it may so any confirm or deny of this would be appreciated