*spoilers* Fable 2 has the worst/most disturbing storyline I've ever experienced; not cool
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The main protagonist as a pawn, Sure. Its the whole premise of the game. Theresas pawn or the players pawn as an avatar:/ I do not care, it still feels ridiculous in a game bloating about'enabling the player to tell his own story'antipunt said:
Lets look at the main protagonist of our story: a mute person with a creepy smile on the face communicating by farting and playing with handpuppets, never speaking, never explainig his or her actions...that is noone to sympathize with:/
(The only time I had fun with him was when I dressed him like Archchancelor Ridcully from Discworld and let him hunt bandits with his crossbow)
In most cases you are still commanded around by Theresa or the other relevant NPCs as a puppet without a feeling of individual purpose... all of that while the loading screens tell me anything is possible in this world of wonder*meh*
The single freedom your character has until the mind controlling probe beeps him to work is living the capitalist dream of getting his/her own house and a generic family by working at the blacksmith for 10 years(or so you feel), running around between villages like a crazy shopaholic and by farting everybody in the face until they want to marry you.
Because the NPCs are so generic and lack any personality it makes no difference who you marry...and even after you marry the ghost-quest girl or lady frankenstein-gray they start muttering 3 or 4 phrases like robots. how should I care about them?
The single time I shortly felt like caring for a family member was when I first met my daughter after the tower and when you leave again after that (quite endearing
that's the difference...when the dialogue is scripted for a single purpose and not just repeated every time you meet the NPC)The story was quite disappointing with bad dialogue, a very boring villain(its like the writers lost half of the rich description of lucien and just said "to hell with it, he's a freudian baddy") and a lame explanation how we spent the missing 9 years( this tower level felt so retarded...of courese interesting moral choices, but it still made little sense)
Summary: the whole game got worse the farer you get, demonstrating the paradox of a game speaking about having a choice while with every further quest you just feel more like commanding a puppet through a limited(yet beautiful) world of unlikeable card-board NPCs.
there is almost noone you care for (Hammer, your sister(in the dream world at least)and maybe the dog when it didn't piss me off) which is demonstrated after the end of the story when all the interesting NPCs are gone and you are (me taking the rescue dem all Captain Hero choice) alone in the world living your boring buying-selling-farting-lifestyle without anyting more to do (yeah 2 quests:/)
just my 2 cents
i made an account exclusively to throw in my 2 cents
i will now procede to dispense my disagreements.
#1: yes the ending of fable 2 sucked, there was no boss fight, you held down A then shot a crazed, lonely old man in the face. there was no challenge, just suck
#2: hammer telling u off, who cares? i made no connection with her beyond the game arbitrarily making her my best friend. she natters at the back of your head about whethor or not its ok to fight to protect people. she is annnoying.
#3: Hating Reaver, totally understand this, although i quite liked him. he shot barnum, who was a cool character. but his story actually has depths and gives the vibe of a man who dehuminizes himself to cope with his destruction of oakvale. he's purposely trying to be as evil as he can so he can bear to breathe. in fact, except for Chesty (the bed in the top of garths tower) and Theresa hes my favourite character.
#4: Theresa being evil. that is just the most idiotic way to interpet her actions at the end. she is most definatly a plotter, and she fairly obviously orchestrates every single thing in the game. she has a secret, she obviously wanted the spire built so she could take it over and u r her instrument. when you choose evil options she reprimands you but she doesnt care much either way. theresa is more like a neutral character then an evil one. she has her goal and she works toward it, but evil or good actions dont bother her.
#5: PMs promises of a massive world where you could do whatever you wanted came down to an annoying dog, way to much time spent on background scenery. basically, the only maps in the game had to relate directly to the "plot" or it didnt exist. you couldnt fuck off from albion and go on quests that had nothing whatsoever to do with lucien. any stories that diverge from that are short little dead ends.
#6: I dont think they actually could have made it easier. by halfway through the game you are invincible. before that anyone older then 10 can probaly manuever their way through game and only die once or twice.
#7: Making me feel bad. it didnt, the ending made me disapointed, it was a massive anti climax. the crying npcs failed to pluck my heartstrings, listening to any of them talk made you want to slaughter them all.
i will now procede to dispense my disagreements.
#1: yes the ending of fable 2 sucked, there was no boss fight, you held down A then shot a crazed, lonely old man in the face. there was no challenge, just suck
#2: hammer telling u off, who cares? i made no connection with her beyond the game arbitrarily making her my best friend. she natters at the back of your head about whethor or not its ok to fight to protect people. she is annnoying.
#3: Hating Reaver, totally understand this, although i quite liked him. he shot barnum, who was a cool character. but his story actually has depths and gives the vibe of a man who dehuminizes himself to cope with his destruction of oakvale. he's purposely trying to be as evil as he can so he can bear to breathe. in fact, except for Chesty (the bed in the top of garths tower) and Theresa hes my favourite character.
#4: Theresa being evil. that is just the most idiotic way to interpet her actions at the end. she is most definatly a plotter, and she fairly obviously orchestrates every single thing in the game. she has a secret, she obviously wanted the spire built so she could take it over and u r her instrument. when you choose evil options she reprimands you but she doesnt care much either way. theresa is more like a neutral character then an evil one. she has her goal and she works toward it, but evil or good actions dont bother her.
#5: PMs promises of a massive world where you could do whatever you wanted came down to an annoying dog, way to much time spent on background scenery. basically, the only maps in the game had to relate directly to the "plot" or it didnt exist. you couldnt fuck off from albion and go on quests that had nothing whatsoever to do with lucien. any stories that diverge from that are short little dead ends.
#6: I dont think they actually could have made it easier. by halfway through the game you are invincible. before that anyone older then 10 can probaly manuever their way through game and only die once or twice.
#7: Making me feel bad. it didnt, the ending made me disapointed, it was a massive anti climax. the crying npcs failed to pluck my heartstrings, listening to any of them talk made you want to slaughter them all.
Fable 2 was a disappointment, i agree with the entire point of this article, which was the story being so poor. Cause when i ended the game i had that same feeling of it being very unsatisfying, probably because the game was 1) short as all a hell, like if they expanded on the part between finding the hero's and the end i wouldve been happy. (i mean by like 5 hours, not 5 mins) 2)*spoilers* They had the game start to go epic, like the world was ending, your character lost everything (which brings me to the next part) and Lucien basically killed you. Then when you go to hunt him down, you get a brief talking scene which is cut off by either you shooting him or reaver doing it and you going 'cmon i want more than that'.The story just stopped dead. no big epic fight like and the end of fable 1? that was epic for that game, so they go and tone it back from Epic to 'thats it?'
3) *still spoilers* The dog dying- wtf, put simply, he died saving you, so what happens? lucien reloads and shoots you again. It was a pointless excuse to kill the dog off to get that last moral choice. I think it was stupid and couldve been done better, but ill let you guys think of that.
Cool things though-1) the dream after he shoots you, that was freaky and i loved it.
2)the world changing on specific decisions (couldve been better though)
3) Dog- Awesome.
3) *still spoilers* The dog dying- wtf, put simply, he died saving you, so what happens? lucien reloads and shoots you again. It was a pointless excuse to kill the dog off to get that last moral choice. I think it was stupid and couldve been done better, but ill let you guys think of that.
Cool things though-1) the dream after he shoots you, that was freaky and i loved it.
2)the world changing on specific decisions (couldve been better though)
3) Dog- Awesome.
I did not realise the story of Fable II was anything like that. I never played the first, never had any real inclination to do so, and felt much the same about the second, but you make the story sound deep, meaningful and so un-typical.antipunt said:
Yeah games where you kill the BigBad, get promoted for heroism, the girl and save the galaxy at the end are all fine and dandy, but occasionally I like to see one where you actually don't get a "good" ending, despite being a good person. If Fable II is like what you make it seem, you may have just piqued my interest in it.
You start your argument on a false premise. Since when we're games supposed to make you feel good? If games are to be taken seriously then their end is to convey a message or story.antipunt said:
Games tend to make people frustrated but if you want games that make you feel good stick with Hello Kitty and Ubisoft's Imagine series.
Games like Shadow of the Colossus, Bioshock and Condemned don't make you feel good at the end. Shadow of the Colossus makes you feel haunted by your actions. Bioshock makes you feel helpless at the fall of a society and horror therein. Condemned fills you with dread and leaves you uneasy.
Theresa is most certainly suspect... and I really wish for the next Fable game to have diologue options. I'm tired of this stupid "emotion" stuff.
If I could've said to Theresa "sod off, I'm going to drink ale and sleep with whores", I would've been very happy.
If I could've said to Theresa "sod off, I'm going to drink ale and sleep with whores", I would've been very happy.
Perhaps having the dialogue options differ depending on how good/evil or pure/corrupt would be good too.Booze Zombie said:
Cause it seems you can be a blood thirsty, child-eating monster, who has huge rental fees yet act like an angel when in these dialogues.
OP: The story for fable 2 was pretty weak if you ask me. I was quite drawn in at the start, but about as soon as you reached bowerstone i felt the story begin to fray.
Also, doesn't it seem odd that theresa is head of a gypsy camp (or at least seems so) but after you leave she never returns?
I don't see how you can be moved to being "sick to your stomach" by such poor writing, character development and story.
How you feel 'punked' is beyond me, you got your revenge and you stopped a 'greater evil'. I was annoyed with the storyline because it was crap, it didn't have any kind of actual effect on me.
Yes Hammer and Reaver are annoying, so is Barnam and everyone else in the game. Theresa isn't evil, of course she's using you for her own ends but they coincide with yours to a point. I think she wants to use the tower to go back a right some wrongs of the past, just like Sam in Quantum Leap but in a selfish way.
It's not a bad experience as you play through it, it's a light hearted RPG-action game, simple as that. I didn't like the game much, it was very poor compared to the first game.
Try playing Fable and I'm sure you'll be much more impressed though the story is a bit darker in the first game.
How you feel 'punked' is beyond me, you got your revenge and you stopped a 'greater evil'. I was annoyed with the storyline because it was crap, it didn't have any kind of actual effect on me.
Yes Hammer and Reaver are annoying, so is Barnam and everyone else in the game. Theresa isn't evil, of course she's using you for her own ends but they coincide with yours to a point. I think she wants to use the tower to go back a right some wrongs of the past, just like Sam in Quantum Leap but in a selfish way.
It's not a bad experience as you play through it, it's a light hearted RPG-action game, simple as that. I didn't like the game much, it was very poor compared to the first game.
Try playing Fable and I'm sure you'll be much more impressed though the story is a bit darker in the first game.
This thread is a great read. I agree with the sentiment of Fable 2's plot feeling incomplete and lacking closure. Also the 'it was Theresa all along' revelation is acceptable in movies (see: some Saw movies) but not in games. There's no fun in a character being manipulated by someone else when it comes down to *US* being suckered. It's completely unfair because it amounts to the designer saying "I knew that and you didn't" without giving us a chance to do anything about it. Telling the player that he was Darth Revan in the outro cut-scene of KOTOR wouldn't have nearly the same impact on the game's storyline.
One thing that surprised me in this thread was the general positive attitude towards Hammer. I viewed her as an artificial and cliche character from the beginning. From the moment I first saw her talking about her way of life I knew that she was about to lose it and transform into a fighter.
I finished the game three times, always with an impression that the three were supposed to be just plain jerks: the absentminded and dehumanized mage, the selfish and self-obsessed thief and the primitive and overzealous G.I. Jane. For me they underscored the fact that I had been the only one who really cared about Albion which only increased my frustration of being screwed by Theresa in the process.
It is good to see so many different responses because this means that the game is at least somewhat open to interpretation. Too bad we have to wait for Fable 3 to judge the "whole thing".
One thing that surprised me in this thread was the general positive attitude towards Hammer. I viewed her as an artificial and cliche character from the beginning. From the moment I first saw her talking about her way of life I knew that she was about to lose it and transform into a fighter.
I finished the game three times, always with an impression that the three were supposed to be just plain jerks: the absentminded and dehumanized mage, the selfish and self-obsessed thief and the primitive and overzealous G.I. Jane. For me they underscored the fact that I had been the only one who really cared about Albion which only increased my frustration of being screwed by Theresa in the process.
It is good to see so many different responses because this means that the game is at least somewhat open to interpretation. Too bad we have to wait for Fable 3 to judge the "whole thing".
Also, when Lucien captures the heroes and shoots dog and yourself, he is asked "What did you do with Theresa?". His reply? "I merely listened."antipunt said:
SHE. SOLD. YOU. OUT.
She told him where to find you at which moment. If that is not betrayal, the word has been severely redefined since last I looked.
1- Theresa is Evil (I have a speculation that she is in fact like Jack Of Blades aka one of the Void or possessed by Jack, since, as per her words; she can see into other worlds and because she's evil it makes sense that she is "from" or possessed by the Void)
2- As Per My Previous Statement; She Will Resurrect Jack Of Blades for Fable3 or something fun like that (a fun thing would be that she resurrects the Hero Of Oakvale as some kind of collateral using the Tower... I know that part's impossible, but I only liked the hero of Oakvale, the new guy was boring to me)
3- I have to agree that the population of Albion is unlikeable (to me) but then again, they are much more likeable when they fear your mere gaze, you just have to accept that laws are only laws when the guards can enforce it (which they can't before the MC's awesome power)
All in all though, I have to agree that the ending was poor as was most of the story. Fable 2 was a poor shadow of the glory Fable 1 once graced us with. But I'm hoping PM will have the good grace to bring Fable3 back to the awesome-ness that was Fable1 by doing the following 3 things:
1- Stop Preaching Kindness, it's nice to try and make us good guys but for 1; we should have incentive to play as both alignments (aka the Vulgar masses should be less Fickle and being Evil should yield actual profit in at least one way instead of making being good a punishing experience)
2- Bring back the whole "You get the option of killing everybody in the game" because I was praying for a chance at the other heroes (mainly Reaver... The Bastard) because THAT made us feel truly evil in Fable1, unlike in Fable2 where the most evil you get to feel is more like intense jerk-ism rather than evil personnified.
3- Power-Down The MC a lot, I realise it's fun to know you are the immortal Drak Lord who can fell an army in his sleep, but seriously, some mechanics shouldn't be trifled with; Namely the Mana Bar, Death and enemies having some actual... o IDK power!? I played the entirety of Fable2 without dying (except that time I died on purpose to see what it'd look like) and sadly the game isn't just easy, it's like handing me the enemies' asses on a Diamond-encrusted Golden platter.
That was My rant on Fable2, although my opinion is the right opinion, remember that it's just that, an opinion and I'm not disrespecting anyone who liked the game (it was likeable in some ways) I'm just saying it could be so much more... (you know... if it were challenging and all that)
2- As Per My Previous Statement; She Will Resurrect Jack Of Blades for Fable3 or something fun like that (a fun thing would be that she resurrects the Hero Of Oakvale as some kind of collateral using the Tower... I know that part's impossible, but I only liked the hero of Oakvale, the new guy was boring to me)
3- I have to agree that the population of Albion is unlikeable (to me) but then again, they are much more likeable when they fear your mere gaze, you just have to accept that laws are only laws when the guards can enforce it (which they can't before the MC's awesome power)
All in all though, I have to agree that the ending was poor as was most of the story. Fable 2 was a poor shadow of the glory Fable 1 once graced us with. But I'm hoping PM will have the good grace to bring Fable3 back to the awesome-ness that was Fable1 by doing the following 3 things:
1- Stop Preaching Kindness, it's nice to try and make us good guys but for 1; we should have incentive to play as both alignments (aka the Vulgar masses should be less Fickle and being Evil should yield actual profit in at least one way instead of making being good a punishing experience)
2- Bring back the whole "You get the option of killing everybody in the game" because I was praying for a chance at the other heroes (mainly Reaver... The Bastard) because THAT made us feel truly evil in Fable1, unlike in Fable2 where the most evil you get to feel is more like intense jerk-ism rather than evil personnified.
3- Power-Down The MC a lot, I realise it's fun to know you are the immortal Drak Lord who can fell an army in his sleep, but seriously, some mechanics shouldn't be trifled with; Namely the Mana Bar, Death and enemies having some actual... o IDK power!? I played the entirety of Fable2 without dying (except that time I died on purpose to see what it'd look like) and sadly the game isn't just easy, it's like handing me the enemies' asses on a Diamond-encrusted Golden platter.
That was My rant on Fable2, although my opinion is the right opinion, remember that it's just that, an opinion and I'm not disrespecting anyone who liked the game (it was likeable in some ways) I'm just saying it could be so much more... (you know... if it were challenging and all that)
Man, that was some cold shit... the way you were presented with the murder of a really likeable character as comedy... it just wasn't funny.antipunt said:
But then again the entire final 3 or 4 hours of Fable 2 were like getting gleefully wanked up almost to orgasm by a nice girl/boy then kicked in the nuts/ladygarden.
Ditto to most of this. I liked Fable 1 and was really looking forward to Fable 2. It was a colossal letdown which was almost painful to play. After UT3 and Too Human it was the worst game of 2008 for me.beddo said:
I'll give you barnum, people's attachment to him varies from person to person. Theresa on the other hand I'm not letting go without at fight.antipunt said:
Yes I realized by this point in the conversation it had been established that the masses think she betrayed you. Yes, I caught the smirk, but drop the "!" off the begon becuase it was a very calm begone. I see her actions at the spire as simply having her own reasons for wanting it. I find to call this a "betrayal" is a rather harsh term to tack to it, when it is merely a parting of ways between you and Theresa. The world is safe, you've gotten your reward for all your hard work, and as part of the deal Theresa gets to keep the spire.
I would argue more, but I'm going to need a few hours to play it again to confirm some stuff from your wiki link. I'm not done with this yet