[Spoilers] Legacy of the Void Epilogue -- I can finally empathize with the hate for ME3's ending.

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Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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Mangod said:
I actually think my biggest problems with StarCraft II, in general, stem from the whole Amon thing. The original StarCraft had a fairly shallow, but still solid background for the conflicts in the game. [http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/StarCraft.PDF] Yet StarCraft II retcons so much of the original game and its background to force Space-Sargeras/Diablo into the narrative, that it just doesn't gel with established lore in a satisfying way
^This.

The first major warning sign, and big killer for my interest in the plot came in Wings of Liberty.
When Blizzard retconned the ZERG OVERMIND into a sympathetic figure.

"The bad guy, who has been framed as only the bad guy, was secretly a good guy forced to do bad things the whole time because MIND CONTROL PROGRAMMING MAGIC!"

Which means that if the Overmind weren't programmed to bring the swarm to conquer the Koprulu Sector, nothing in SC1 would have happened at all. The Protoss would have left humanity alone to continue their insular lives, and the Confederacy would have gone on being oppressive dicks.

And that doesn't even get into how that retroactively makes Kerrigan's arc and involvement with the zerg entirely stupid and ridiculous, to the point where she basically became Starcraft's Darth Vader.
"It was the will of the Force Plot that Kerrigan ascend to destroy the Xel'Borg."
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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Vuliev said:
Regarding the 2nd to last mission:
Just wanting to make sure, but surely you noticed that Kerrigan has a global death beam attack that you can use as many times as you want, right? I just beat the game and didn't have too much trouble with that mission. Granted, I was taken a bit by surprise by just how quickly the onslaught comes on and had to restart the mission, but on the second attempt I just went double-barracks, set one to rally at the protoss entrance, the other to rally at the zerg entrance, and just flooded them with ground troops. Once my economy got rolling I started pumping out the tanks and dispersing them to the various entrances. The trick is to use Kerrigan's death-beam to pick off all the heavy stuff (thors, ultralisks, battlecruisers, etc) since she kills them in a couple seconds and let your ground forces handle all the small fries. Really isn't all that difficult. :p

Regarding the ending:
Eh, yeah, that was kinda weak. But as others have indicated: Blizzard isn't exactly known for its fantastic writing. Let me ask you this, though: just what kind of ending were you expecting? Or at least hoping for?

Personally I was hoping that Artanis and Kerrigan would perform the DBZ fusion dance and become Arterrigan and punch the big-bad right in his giant space-nuts so hard his 8 eyes exploded. :3
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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Mangod said:
While I certainly agree that the ending wasn't marvelous, I do disagree with the notion that the plot was shoehorned in. Because...

Atmos Duality said:
The thing is that SCII provided backstory for the Zerg and just why the Overmind was so obsessed with assimilating the Protoss.

Indeed it does mean that if Amon hadn't interfered with the Zerg and Protoss then none of the chaos would have happened...that's kinda the point, and why it all fits together. Amon was the cause of all the strife, and the strife was ended with his defeat.

The Xel'Naga are simply meant to create life in new universes, not interfere with life in new universes. But Amon was growing tired of the infinite cycle and wanted to destroy it, so instead of going into hibernation he stayed behind and started tinkering with the races. The Zerg were confined to their home planet, nothing more than primal pack beasts. Amon plucked one from the planet and turned it into the Overmind because he wanted an unstoppable army to wipe out the cosmos...this obviously means that the Overmind itself wouldn't have even existed if it weren't for the Xel'Naga...specifically: Amon.

When the ancient Protoss rebelled against him and destroyed his body, he needed a new one. As the prophecy said: Xel'Naga can only be made manifest in a body that is pure in both form and essence. This is why he made the Zerg obsessed with assimilating the Protoss. In doing so, they would create a new body for him.

And think of what Amon's brainwashed forces keep saying: "We shall ascend! We shall become perfect!" Thinking back to SC1, that's pretty much what the Overmind was saying would happen when they assimilated the Protoss: the Zerg would become perfect. So it fits that the Overmind was brainwashed as well, nothing more than a tool of Amon. It was already established in SCI that both the Zerg and the Protoss were "experiments of the Xel'Naga". So why is it so much of a stretch to say that Amon's will was controlling the Overmind? He did, after all, create the Overmind in the first place.

There's also the fact that the secret mission in BW paves the way for this as well, as Zeratul comes across a hybrid breeding facility run by Samir Duran, who claims that he's neither Terran nor Zerg, but serves a power beyond Zeratul's comprehension...which Zeratul names as the Xel'Naga.

Then there's the epilogue to BW which notes how Kerrigan stared into the darkness of space sensing a looming darkness approaching or something like that.

So yeah...in the end, the story fits together with everything that was setup in SC and BW.

Now, with that said, I do call bullshit on Tassadar having been a Xel'Naga the entire time. But as far as I can tell, that's the only major retcon in the franchise.
 

Sonicron

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Mar 11, 2009
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RJ 17 said:
Agreed on all counts but one, sir. In a good way.

The way I understood it, the Tassadar we know from SC1 was a genuine Protoss, a spiritual and military leader who sacrificed himself for the good of his people. However, the visions Zeratul started having in SC2 involving the spirit of Tassadar - that was Ouros, reaching out in a way that would motivate Zeratul to keep digging rather than err on the side of caution. You know, cloaking yourself in the form of a friend generally gets more enthusiastic responses than, "Hello, I'm benevolent Space Cthulhu, and I have a job for you."
 

Mangod

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Feb 20, 2011
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RJ 17 said:
Mangod said:
While I certainly agree that the ending wasn't marvelous, I do disagree with the notion that the plot was shoehorned in. Because...

Atmos Duality said:
The thing is that SCII provided backstory for the Zerg and just why the Overmind was so obsessed with assimilating the Protoss.
Thing is though, the original game already did that. Copypaste Wall of Text in the spoiler. I'm bolding the most important parts.

Driven to perfect their science of proto-genetic evolution, the ancient, enigmatic race known as the Xel?Naga traveled to the distant fringeworld of Aiur. The vast jungles of Aiur had produced the most advanced race that the Xel?Naga had ever seen. Believing that they could steer the race?s evolution to the pinnacle of physical perfection, the Xel?Naga began to conduct their proto-genetic experiments. The race that the Xel?Naga would eventually name ?Protoss? advanced rapidly and gained what their creators termed ?a distinct purity of form?.

Unfortunately, the Xel?Naga pushed their experiment too far. The inherent essence and sentience of the Protoss developed far too rapidly, leading to bitter strife and division between them and their creators. The Xel?Naga deemed that the purity of form they sought to create had been sullied by a conflict of essence and thus decreed that the Protoss were, in fact, a failed creation. The Xel?Naga abandoned their children and launched themselves into the void.

Traveling thousands of light years into the burning core of the galaxy, the Xel?Naga eventually settled upon the volatile ash-world of Zerus. The Xel?Naga planned to continue their Grand Experiment of evolution, only this time they dismissed their tenets of physical form and focused chiefly on the pursuit of a distinct purity of essence. Residing in their massive ships high above the fires of Zerus, the Xel?Naga began once again to challenge the wiles of fate.

The Xel?Naga were more successful with their second venture than they could have imagined. They labored to advance the evolution of the most insignificant life form on Zerus, a race of miniature insectoids known as the Zerg. Through Xel?Naga proto-genetic manipulations, the Zerg survived the torrential firestorms of their world and thrived. Although extremely small, worm-like, and possessing no ability to manipulate their physical surroundings, the Zerg adapted to survive. They developed the ability to burrow into the flesh of the less vulnerable species indigenous to Zerus. Feeding off the nutrients contained within the spinal fluids of their hosts, the Zerg learned to parasitically merge with their host creatures. Once they became capable of controlling the metabolic and anatomical processes of their hosts, the Zerg used their new bodies to manipulate their surroundings.

As the Zerg incorporated more and more host creatures into their fold, they began to assimilate their various genetic strains and processes. Zerg chemistry began to mutate and adapt according to the volume of new genetic material being processed. However, as diverse as the range of host creatures became, there was always the undeviating drive to consume
only the most evolutionarily advanced species encountered. The Zerg were innately selective as to which species they consumed, ensuring that at every stage of their development they were at the top of the proverbial food chain. Any race that the Zerg came across that was deemed unworthy of assimilation was eradicated to further purify the strains.


The Xel?Naga soon made an alarming discovery. The original races assimilated by the Zerg were hardly recognizable after only a few generations of their inception. Somehow the Zerg had developed the ability to supercharge and steer the latent evolutionary processes within their host creatures. The host creatures fell prey to the effects of gradual physical mutations that caused all of the various strains to grow armor piercing spines, razor-sharp limbs, and ultra dense carapaces. Over a surprisingly short amount of time, the strains grew to resemble a terrifyingly ravenous and unified race.

The Xel?Naga, remembering all too well that their failure with the Protoss was a result of pushing the sentience of the fledgling species too quickly, decided to follow a different path with the burgeoning Zerg. Attempting to waylay the potential hazards of differing egos, the Xel?Naga structured the collective sentience of the Zerg into a unified, amalgamated ?Overmind?. The Overmind coalesced into a semi-sentient being that represented the primary drives and instincts of all of the Zerg strains. As time passed, the Overmind developed the rudiments of personality and advanced intellect.

Although the Overmind directed the actions of every creature within the swarm, it did so through the use of secondary agents. The Overmind created a new strain of Zerg that could facilitate the communication of its whims. These Cerebrates were massive versions of the original Zerg insectoids and were engineered to process and carry out the various objectives of the Overmind. Each Cerebrate had a unique objective, such as ?defend the Hive?, ?scout for potential strains?, ?produce more warriors?, or ?eradicate all Life forms?. The Cerebrates were then empowered to build their own Hive clusters and carry out their intended agendas. Over time they developed personalities that corresponded to their primary drives. However, the Cerebrates were still genetically incapable of ignoring or overriding the commands of the Overmind.

The Zerg chain of command lengthened as new races were incorporated into the swarm. Cerebrates began to use secondary agents to communicate their orders as well. For the defense and productivity of the immediate Hive, the Cerebrates turned to Queens to further extend their control over the swarms. The Queens oversaw Drone activity throughout the resource lines of the Hives and kept a vigilant watch over the budding spore colonies of the collective. In times of battle, Cerebrates called upon the Overlords to directly relay their commands to the myriad warriors of the swarm. Overlords not only transported Zerg warriors into the fray, but also directed their attacks against their enemies. Just as the Cerebrates followed the Overmind, the Queens and Overlords were incapable of disobeying the commands from their
Cerebrates. This rigid system of command kept the swarms at peak, savage efficiency.

As the swarms continued to grow and strengthen, the Overmind turned its thoughts towards its own future. It realized that within a few short centuries its race had assimilated all of the indigenous life upon Zerus. It knew that to further evolve the swarm, the Zerg would need to leave Zerus. The Overmind began to reach out with its senses, looking for something - anything - which would provide them with transport from this world. That opportunity soon arrived. A race of gargantuan, space-faring life forms passed through the Zerus system, and the Overmind called to them. Drawn to the barren world by this beacon, they were quickly assimilated by the swarm. The inclusion of super-dense hides and the ability to exist in a vacuum bolstered the genetic pool of the swarm. Soon the Zerg warriors were conditioned to survive the harshness of space.

This pivotal moment in the development of the Zerg was not lost to the Xel?Naga. The Zerg, despite having an extreme physical handicap, had succeeded in not only surviving, but in retaining the purity of their terrible overriding essence. The Xel?Naga knew that they had achieved their goal.

The pride in their achievements proved to be the fatal downfall of the Xel?Naga. The Overmind, while slowly expanding itself into the void of space, became aware of the mighty Xel?Naga world-ships hovering ominously above the skies of Zerus. The Xel?Naga, having kept a constant watch on the Overmind, were horrified to find that it had actually severed their psychic link, effectively hiding itself from their view. With its need to consume driving its minions into a lustful frenzy, the Overmind launched the now space-faring Zerg swarms at the unsuspecting Xel?Naga. The ancient race did what they could to stem the tide of the ever-advancing Zerg onslaught, but in the end their efforts were in vain. Wave after wave of Zerg swarms hammered the reinforced hulls of the Xel?Naga?s ships with no signs of abatement. Within only a few hours the Zerg overran the defenses of their creators and laid waste to the Xel?Naga fleet.

As the greater whole of the Xel?Naga race was consumed by the raging, genetic whirlwind of the Zerg, the Overmind gained the knowledge and insights of its masters.
The Overmind processed thousands of sentient beings into itself, causing it to grow far more powerful than it had ever imagined. It learned the secrets of the sacred Khaydarin Crystals, and began to incorporate the energies of these Crystals into its own. Through the intimate knowledge of evolution and proto-genetic physiology gained from the Xel?Naga, the Overmind was able to increase the level of sentience in many of the higher Zerg strains, while still keeping them fully under its control.

Through dissecting the memories of the Xel?Naga, the Overmind was made aware of the myriad races that had at one time or another been influenced by the ancient race. The Xel?Naga had kept a detailed genetic history of each race, giving the Overmind a clear understanding of their respective strengths and weaknesses. Most importantly, the Overmind learned of an exceedingly powerful race that lived near the galaxy?s fringe known only as the Protoss. The Overmind knew then that the Protoss and the Zerg would eventually be caught in an inevitable,
apocalyptic conflict.


The Zerg left the lifeless, burning world of Zerus and laid waste to every planet they found along their path towards the Protoss Homeworld. As they progressed slowly through the trackless dark between the stars, the Zerg assimilated only the strongest of the races that they came across. The swarm continued to build steadily, ever-increasing in size and power. As they progressed, the Overmind sent out numerous deep-space probes that scouted ahead of the swarm, searching for new worlds to plunder.

Despite innumerable victories, the Overmind was greatly disturbed. The Overmind was aware that the Protoss had become a highly psionic race, able to bend and warp the very fabric of reality to their whims. It sought a way to counter the awesome might of the Protoss, but found no answers among the genetic strains it devoured.

On the verge of despair, the Overmind made an amazing discovery. One of its deepspace probes had relayed the location and vital statistics of a race that occupied a series of nondescript worlds, right under the shadow of the Protoss.

The new race, called Humanity, was mere generations away from developing into a formidable psionic power. But the Overmind also knew that Humanity was still in its infant stages, hardly capable of defending itself against the ravenous Zerg. Although a shortlived and seemingly frail species, the Overmind knew that Humanity would be the final determinant in its victory over the Protoss. If it could assimilate the psionic potential of Humanity, the Overmind would have the ability to combat the Protoss on its own terms.

Thus, the Zerg swarms slowly made their way towards the burgeoning worlds of Humanity. The journey lasted for sixty years, but eventually the massive, extended Zerg Swarm reached the outskirts of the Terran Sector of Koprulu. Sending in a scouting Brood, the Overmind soon discovered that the Humans dwelt on over a dozen different worlds within the Sector. Seeding the atmosphere of the planet called Chau Sara with rudimentary Hive-spores, the Overmind began to unfold its master plan to enslave Humanity. The Hive-spores gradually drifted down to the surface of Chau Sara and saturated the ground with their denuding, alien toxins. Although the Human colonists had no idea that the Zerg had subtly infested the topsoil of their world, Zerg minions began to descend to the planet?s surface and construct their bizarre structures and Hive clusters. Once the infestation of the colony was well underway, the Overmind sent its voracious children to the other nearby worlds. Insidious and elusive in their tasks, the agents of the Overmind soon infested the colonial worlds of Chau Sara, Mar Sara, Brontes, and Dylar IV, unnoticed by the denizens of those colonies.

Yet, from out of the cold void of space, a mighty fleet of Protoss warships emerged to combat the Zerg invasionary forces. The Overmind, anxious to learn what it could about the enigmatic Protoss, decided to let them hamper the initial infestation process. Holding its ravenous warriors at bay, the Overmind watched as the Protoss razed the colony of Chau Sara. Apparently, the Protoss were aware that the Hive Spores had already despoiled the planet and seeking to prevent further infestation, incinerated the planet.

Such decisive action pleased the Overmind, who could only marvel at how the Protoss wrought absolute devastation with such grace and power. Knowing that the coming conflict would be the greatest challenge of its existence, the Overmind pulled its forces back to observe how the Protoss, and Humanity, would react next.

Zerus being a thriving jungle planet.
The primal Zerg existing.
Amon and his followers getting eaten by the Zerg.
The Overmind being driven by its own desire to be top-dog in the universe.
The Zerg being an uplifting [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UpliftedAnimal] gone horribly right [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoneHorriblyRight].

The gist of all this is that, if we accept StarCraft II as canon, then Amon was an incompetent f*** who got his entire fleet and almost all of his followers annihilated when his experiment, which he somehow is still in control of, went rogue and killed Amon's followers... because it couldn't disobey Amon's programming... my head hurts...
 

rcs619

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Mar 26, 2011
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Mangod said:
RJ 17 said:
Mangod said:
While I certainly agree that the ending wasn't marvelous, I do disagree with the notion that the plot was shoehorned in. Because...

Atmos Duality said:
The thing is that SCII provided backstory for the Zerg and just why the Overmind was so obsessed with assimilating the Protoss.
Thing is though, the original game already did that. Copypaste Wall of Text in the spoiler. I'm bolding the most important parts.

Driven to perfect their science of proto-genetic evolution, the ancient, enigmatic race known as the Xel?Naga traveled to the distant fringeworld of Aiur. The vast jungles of Aiur had produced the most advanced race that the Xel?Naga had ever seen. Believing that they could steer the race?s evolution to the pinnacle of physical perfection, the Xel?Naga began to conduct their proto-genetic experiments. The race that the Xel?Naga would eventually name ?Protoss? advanced rapidly and gained what their creators termed ?a distinct purity of form?.

Unfortunately, the Xel?Naga pushed their experiment too far. The inherent essence and sentience of the Protoss developed far too rapidly, leading to bitter strife and division between them and their creators. The Xel?Naga deemed that the purity of form they sought to create had been sullied by a conflict of essence and thus decreed that the Protoss were, in fact, a failed creation. The Xel?Naga abandoned their children and launched themselves into the void.

Traveling thousands of light years into the burning core of the galaxy, the Xel?Naga eventually settled upon the volatile ash-world of Zerus. The Xel?Naga planned to continue their Grand Experiment of evolution, only this time they dismissed their tenets of physical form and focused chiefly on the pursuit of a distinct purity of essence. Residing in their massive ships high above the fires of Zerus, the Xel?Naga began once again to challenge the wiles of fate.

The Xel?Naga were more successful with their second venture than they could have imagined. They labored to advance the evolution of the most insignificant life form on Zerus, a race of miniature insectoids known as the Zerg. Through Xel?Naga proto-genetic manipulations, the Zerg survived the torrential firestorms of their world and thrived. Although extremely small, worm-like, and possessing no ability to manipulate their physical surroundings, the Zerg adapted to survive. They developed the ability to burrow into the flesh of the less vulnerable species indigenous to Zerus. Feeding off the nutrients contained within the spinal fluids of their hosts, the Zerg learned to parasitically merge with their host creatures. Once they became capable of controlling the metabolic and anatomical processes of their hosts, the Zerg used their new bodies to manipulate their surroundings.

As the Zerg incorporated more and more host creatures into their fold, they began to assimilate their various genetic strains and processes. Zerg chemistry began to mutate and adapt according to the volume of new genetic material being processed. However, as diverse as the range of host creatures became, there was always the undeviating drive to consume
only the most evolutionarily advanced species encountered. The Zerg were innately selective as to which species they consumed, ensuring that at every stage of their development they were at the top of the proverbial food chain. Any race that the Zerg came across that was deemed unworthy of assimilation was eradicated to further purify the strains.


The Xel?Naga soon made an alarming discovery. The original races assimilated by the Zerg were hardly recognizable after only a few generations of their inception. Somehow the Zerg had developed the ability to supercharge and steer the latent evolutionary processes within their host creatures. The host creatures fell prey to the effects of gradual physical mutations that caused all of the various strains to grow armor piercing spines, razor-sharp limbs, and ultra dense carapaces. Over a surprisingly short amount of time, the strains grew to resemble a terrifyingly ravenous and unified race.

The Xel?Naga, remembering all too well that their failure with the Protoss was a result of pushing the sentience of the fledgling species too quickly, decided to follow a different path with the burgeoning Zerg. Attempting to waylay the potential hazards of differing egos, the Xel?Naga structured the collective sentience of the Zerg into a unified, amalgamated ?Overmind?. The Overmind coalesced into a semi-sentient being that represented the primary drives and instincts of all of the Zerg strains. As time passed, the Overmind developed the rudiments of personality and advanced intellect.

Although the Overmind directed the actions of every creature within the swarm, it did so through the use of secondary agents. The Overmind created a new strain of Zerg that could facilitate the communication of its whims. These Cerebrates were massive versions of the original Zerg insectoids and were engineered to process and carry out the various objectives of the Overmind. Each Cerebrate had a unique objective, such as ?defend the Hive?, ?scout for potential strains?, ?produce more warriors?, or ?eradicate all Life forms?. The Cerebrates were then empowered to build their own Hive clusters and carry out their intended agendas. Over time they developed personalities that corresponded to their primary drives. However, the Cerebrates were still genetically incapable of ignoring or overriding the commands of the Overmind.

The Zerg chain of command lengthened as new races were incorporated into the swarm. Cerebrates began to use secondary agents to communicate their orders as well. For the defense and productivity of the immediate Hive, the Cerebrates turned to Queens to further extend their control over the swarms. The Queens oversaw Drone activity throughout the resource lines of the Hives and kept a vigilant watch over the budding spore colonies of the collective. In times of battle, Cerebrates called upon the Overlords to directly relay their commands to the myriad warriors of the swarm. Overlords not only transported Zerg warriors into the fray, but also directed their attacks against their enemies. Just as the Cerebrates followed the Overmind, the Queens and Overlords were incapable of disobeying the commands from their
Cerebrates. This rigid system of command kept the swarms at peak, savage efficiency.

As the swarms continued to grow and strengthen, the Overmind turned its thoughts towards its own future. It realized that within a few short centuries its race had assimilated all of the indigenous life upon Zerus. It knew that to further evolve the swarm, the Zerg would need to leave Zerus. The Overmind began to reach out with its senses, looking for something - anything - which would provide them with transport from this world. That opportunity soon arrived. A race of gargantuan, space-faring life forms passed through the Zerus system, and the Overmind called to them. Drawn to the barren world by this beacon, they were quickly assimilated by the swarm. The inclusion of super-dense hides and the ability to exist in a vacuum bolstered the genetic pool of the swarm. Soon the Zerg warriors were conditioned to survive the harshness of space.

This pivotal moment in the development of the Zerg was not lost to the Xel?Naga. The Zerg, despite having an extreme physical handicap, had succeeded in not only surviving, but in retaining the purity of their terrible overriding essence. The Xel?Naga knew that they had achieved their goal.

The pride in their achievements proved to be the fatal downfall of the Xel?Naga. The Overmind, while slowly expanding itself into the void of space, became aware of the mighty Xel?Naga world-ships hovering ominously above the skies of Zerus. The Xel?Naga, having kept a constant watch on the Overmind, were horrified to find that it had actually severed their psychic link, effectively hiding itself from their view. With its need to consume driving its minions into a lustful frenzy, the Overmind launched the now space-faring Zerg swarms at the unsuspecting Xel?Naga. The ancient race did what they could to stem the tide of the ever-advancing Zerg onslaught, but in the end their efforts were in vain. Wave after wave of Zerg swarms hammered the reinforced hulls of the Xel?Naga?s ships with no signs of abatement. Within only a few hours the Zerg overran the defenses of their creators and laid waste to the Xel?Naga fleet.

As the greater whole of the Xel?Naga race was consumed by the raging, genetic whirlwind of the Zerg, the Overmind gained the knowledge and insights of its masters.
The Overmind processed thousands of sentient beings into itself, causing it to grow far more powerful than it had ever imagined. It learned the secrets of the sacred Khaydarin Crystals, and began to incorporate the energies of these Crystals into its own. Through the intimate knowledge of evolution and proto-genetic physiology gained from the Xel?Naga, the Overmind was able to increase the level of sentience in many of the higher Zerg strains, while still keeping them fully under its control.

Through dissecting the memories of the Xel?Naga, the Overmind was made aware of the myriad races that had at one time or another been influenced by the ancient race. The Xel?Naga had kept a detailed genetic history of each race, giving the Overmind a clear understanding of their respective strengths and weaknesses. Most importantly, the Overmind learned of an exceedingly powerful race that lived near the galaxy?s fringe known only as the Protoss. The Overmind knew then that the Protoss and the Zerg would eventually be caught in an inevitable,
apocalyptic conflict.


The Zerg left the lifeless, burning world of Zerus and laid waste to every planet they found along their path towards the Protoss Homeworld. As they progressed slowly through the trackless dark between the stars, the Zerg assimilated only the strongest of the races that they came across. The swarm continued to build steadily, ever-increasing in size and power. As they progressed, the Overmind sent out numerous deep-space probes that scouted ahead of the swarm, searching for new worlds to plunder.

Despite innumerable victories, the Overmind was greatly disturbed. The Overmind was aware that the Protoss had become a highly psionic race, able to bend and warp the very fabric of reality to their whims. It sought a way to counter the awesome might of the Protoss, but found no answers among the genetic strains it devoured.

On the verge of despair, the Overmind made an amazing discovery. One of its deepspace probes had relayed the location and vital statistics of a race that occupied a series of nondescript worlds, right under the shadow of the Protoss.

The new race, called Humanity, was mere generations away from developing into a formidable psionic power. But the Overmind also knew that Humanity was still in its infant stages, hardly capable of defending itself against the ravenous Zerg. Although a shortlived and seemingly frail species, the Overmind knew that Humanity would be the final determinant in its victory over the Protoss. If it could assimilate the psionic potential of Humanity, the Overmind would have the ability to combat the Protoss on its own terms.

Thus, the Zerg swarms slowly made their way towards the burgeoning worlds of Humanity. The journey lasted for sixty years, but eventually the massive, extended Zerg Swarm reached the outskirts of the Terran Sector of Koprulu. Sending in a scouting Brood, the Overmind soon discovered that the Humans dwelt on over a dozen different worlds within the Sector. Seeding the atmosphere of the planet called Chau Sara with rudimentary Hive-spores, the Overmind began to unfold its master plan to enslave Humanity. The Hive-spores gradually drifted down to the surface of Chau Sara and saturated the ground with their denuding, alien toxins. Although the Human colonists had no idea that the Zerg had subtly infested the topsoil of their world, Zerg minions began to descend to the planet?s surface and construct their bizarre structures and Hive clusters. Once the infestation of the colony was well underway, the Overmind sent its voracious children to the other nearby worlds. Insidious and elusive in their tasks, the agents of the Overmind soon infested the colonial worlds of Chau Sara, Mar Sara, Brontes, and Dylar IV, unnoticed by the denizens of those colonies.

Yet, from out of the cold void of space, a mighty fleet of Protoss warships emerged to combat the Zerg invasionary forces. The Overmind, anxious to learn what it could about the enigmatic Protoss, decided to let them hamper the initial infestation process. Holding its ravenous warriors at bay, the Overmind watched as the Protoss razed the colony of Chau Sara. Apparently, the Protoss were aware that the Hive Spores had already despoiled the planet and seeking to prevent further infestation, incinerated the planet.

Such decisive action pleased the Overmind, who could only marvel at how the Protoss wrought absolute devastation with such grace and power. Knowing that the coming conflict would be the greatest challenge of its existence, the Overmind pulled its forces back to observe how the Protoss, and Humanity, would react next.

Zerus being a thriving jungle planet.
The primal Zerg existing.
Amon and his followers getting eaten by the Zerg.
The Overmind being driven by its own desire to be top-dog in the universe.
The Zerg being an uplifting [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UpliftedAnimal] gone horribly right [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoneHorriblyRight].

The gist of all this is that, if we accept StarCraft II as canon, then Amon was an incompetent f*** who got his entire fleet and almost all of his followers annihilated when his experiment, which he somehow is still in control of, went rogue and killed Amon's followers... because it couldn't disobey Amon's programming... my head hurts...
That's kind of the thing though, the whole Amon plot thread in Starcraft II just makes everything worse. He's a villain we have zero investment in that wants to murder everybody just because. At least in Mass Effect, the Reapers pop up in the very first game and make one hell of an impression so there's a legitimate fear-factor there. Amon just sort of comes out of nowhere, and suddenly he's supposed to be a big deal.

And, really, it would have been super easy to cut him out of the story altogether. Just have the zerg-protoss hybrids be this weird fourth faction that's been slowly growing in the background of the series, and now they're on the attack. No alien gods, no alternate dimensions, no last-minute bullshit space-magic... just terran, zerg and protoss, now unlikely allies, trying to win against a new enemy that combines the best aspects of all three.

Hell, maybe the hybrids got first made after the zerg invade Aiur, and they all pop out during Artanis' invasion, so it can still go tits up and get most of his species killed and/or enslaved.

In general, ancient alien gods only work when you either know almost nothing about them... or they don't actually do anything in the present (you only see the results of their ancient actions). Keeping with the Mass Effect example, the Reapers were only effective villains when you knew almost nothing about them. Once you got to the ending of ME3 where every single aspect of their origins and goals were explained (stupid ones at that), not to mention the Leviathan DLC, it just got all dumb.

Amon is the same way. Could have worked as a bit of cthulhu-esque background lore, but he turns out to be pretty dumb when he's actually brought into the game to do stuff.
 

Mangod

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Hell, now that I think about it, if we accept what Legacy of the Void tells us, Amon created
the Protoss
as a slave race, with
the Khala
as a control collar. Then, he creates
the Zerg,
and programs them to destroy... the first slave race he created... why?
 

Hawki

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I'll never understand the SC fanbase.

Zerus being re-vegetated? It's potentially a retcon, but as it's established that 2000 years pass between being left lifeless (through cross-referencing timeframes), and that the native flora are a form of primal zerg themselves according to map files, I can accept the notion of it being revegetated.

The primal zerg are a "retcon" in as much as characters like Zod "retcon" Superman being "the Last Sun of Krypton." It's specifically stated that they hid from the Overmind and escaped incorporation into the hive mind. It's as much a retcon as saying "there were no survivors on x" and then revealing that wasn't true, provided that there's explanation as to how that occurs. It's the same reason that the original manual is subject to revision/revelation as it's a narration of history rather than depiction of it. It's even referenced in LotV, namely how "everything we knew about the xel'naga was a lie."

Amon and his followers weren't killed by the zerg, they were killed by the other xel'naga. The Overmind and his zerg attacked the xel'naga that opposed Amon. Amon was killed on Ulnar after the battle.

I personally love the revelations of the Overmind, how it gives depth to its character. It's been established that the Overmind was still dedicated to improving its race, only that it was operating within the latitudes that Amon's control allowed. In SC1, the Overmind is a simple character with apparently simple motivations that, while servicable, don't do much. In SC2, we get actual character depth.

How did Amon come out of nowhere when he was first hinted at in Brood War (it's been stated that the idea existed back then, so don't pull a "oh, Duran could have been referring to anything"). Amon gets built up over three games - hinted at in the first, motivations hinted at in the second, backstory delved into in the third, fully fleshed out in the fourth. That, and given his backstory and whatnot, I find him interesting for the same reason I find Morgoth interesting. Now what one finds interesting is a matter of subjective opinion, but the idea that he came out of nowhere? Huh?

-Concerning a sidetrack to the Reapers, again, only watched ME3, but I loved how their backstory was explored and explained. I like the setup of the Catalyst as well, along with its motivations. It's an example of what I call "smart-stupid" in writing (as someone who's done writing courses himself), where a motivation makes no sense on the face of it, but makes sense in the rationale of the one who possesses it. The Catalyst's motivations work because it's operating within the parameters allowed for it as its status as an AI, one whose experience goes back further than any of the protagonists. And Amon's goes back even further.

And on the subject of alien gods, I disagree that learning nothing about them is inherantly superior. Are we to believe that characters like Q (Star Trek) and Trance Gemini (Andromeda) would be better characters if they remained enigmas and/or received no characterization? On the flipside, I can point to counter-examples (the Spirit of the Abyss, the c'tan, etc.), where a degree of ambiguity/aloofness works.

-I see that "bullshit space magic" has been brought into it. Huh. So, psionic powers, khaydarin crystals, Void energy kamikazes (SC1), Uraj and Khalis with planet-cleansing, star-activating temples (BW), precognition/prophecy (Retribution/BW/Maps of the Month) is fine, but the Void (established in SC1 itself as an energy source), immensely powerful beings (xel'naga), and the Keystone are going too far. I...I don't...I can't...what?! It's the same reason I was left asking "huh?" at reactions to Tassadar's apparent spirit form. So, let's see - the protoss are capable of psionic powers, the Khala (which is already established to contain echoes of deceased protoss in original lore), and the ability to combine into beings of pure energy (archons), but THIS is the thing that goes too far? If anything, I'm reminded of the Nostalgia Critic's review of Temple of Doom - people are fine with an inflatable raft falling out of a plane and landing without the passengers having any injuries, yet surviving a nuke in a fridge is the thing that goes too far.

In the interests of fairness, I can cite personal examples where I feel an installment of a series has gone too far with pre-existing elements (Metal Gear Revengeance, Die Another Day, etc.), but even so, I don't see anything in SC2 that generates anywhere near the same level of tonal/contextual whiplash. But granted, that's down to the individual.

Well, anyway. I've seen these debates rage for five years. I can agree to disagree.
 

Hawki

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Mangod said:
Hell, now that I think about it, if we accept what Legacy of the Void tells us, Amon created
the Protoss
as a slave race, with
the Khala
as a control collar. Then, he creates
the Zerg,
and programs them to destroy... the first slave race he created... why?
Some points:

-Amon didn't create the protoss, he simply uplifted them.

-Amon and the xel'naga lost control of the protoss, hence being forced to flee Aiur.

-Amon didn't create the Khala, Khas did. There's the suggestion that Amon may have had a hand in this in 'Firstborn', but otherwise, the Khala was created on its own accord.

-The zerg were programmed to consume the protoss as a means of creating the hybrid.
 

rcs619

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Hawki said:
-Concerning a sidetrack to the Reapers, again, only watched ME3, but I loved how their backstory was explored and explained. I like the setup of the Catalyst as well, along with its motivations. It's an example of what I call "smart-stupid" in writing (as someone who's done writing courses himself), where a motivation makes no sense on the face of it, but makes sense in the rationale of the one who possesses it. The Catalyst's motivations work because it's operating within the parameters allowed for it as its status as an AI, one whose experience goes back further than any of the protagonists. And Amon's goes back even further.
They went from...

Being a race of biomechanical space-cthulhus of unknown origins that you knew absolutely nothing about. They were going to kill you, and everything you've ever known, for reasons only they knew and that you weren't worthy enough to have explained to you, and death of your species would just be one more cycle in their eons-long rampage. You were less than an insect in their overall plans.

And they went too...

Just another group of rogue AI's who killed their creators and then decided to lash out against all other organic life for mostly-arbitrary reasons. Oh, and the aliens that made them? They're from right here in our own galaxy. You want to meet a couple of them? Well we've got a mission for that.

Every bit of dread, mystery and buildup was just, completely removed in the last 10 minutes by the Catalyst. They were just big, dumb rogue AI's. Been there, done that. The story would have been much more effective if, after you only barely manage to survive their onslaught, you still never knew what their endgame was. They came and nearly killed everyone, and no one will ever know why. All they can try to do is put the pieces back together afterwards.

And on the subject of alien gods, I disagree that learning nothing about them is inherantly superior. Are we to believe that characters like Q (Star Trek) and Trance Gemini (Andromeda) would be better characters if they remained enigmas and/or received no characterization? On the flipside, I can point to counter-examples (the Spirit of the Abyss, the c'tan, etc.), where a degree of ambiguity/aloofness works.
Q is one of the most overexposed characters in Star Trek, which does detract from his presence just a bit over the longterm. And... the Andromeda series in particular, didn't that just devolve into a bunch of horrendously over-written and self-indulgent bullshit? I seem to remember it starting to fall apart around the same time the quirky purple girl turned out to be some sort of alien star-god for... reasons.

It's kind of the same deal with Prometheus. No one cares where the xenomorphs come from, or who the dead body in the original derelict was. By providing an answer for a question that never needed to be asked, all you do is detract from the overall mystery. Sometimes truly alien things need to be truly alien, and outside of human understanding.

-I see that "bullshit space magic" has been brought into it. Huh. So, psionic powers, khaydarin crystals, Void energy kamikazes (SC1), Uraj and Khalis with planet-cleansing, star-activating temples (BW), precognition/prophecy (Retribution/BW/Maps of the Month) is fine, but the Void (established in SC1 itself as an energy source), immensely powerful beings (xel'naga), and the Keystone are going too far. I...I don't...I can't...what?! It's the same reason I was left asking "huh?" at reactions to Tassadar's apparent spirit form. So, let's see - the protoss are capable of psionic powers, the Khala (which is already established to contain echoes of deceased protoss in original lore), and the ability to combine into beings of pure energy (archons), but THIS is the thing that goes too far? If anything, I'm reminded of the Nostalgia Critic's review of Temple of Doom - people are fine with an inflatable raft falling out of a plane and landing without the passengers having any injuries, yet surviving a nuke in a fridge is the thing that goes too far.
There is a difference between space-magic and bullshit space-magic. A psychic species with all sorts of crazy powers, I can buy that. That's got grounding within the framework of the setting and it is portrayed in a way that is believable. Bullshit space-magic tends to come out of nowhere (usually draped in a bunch of shallow metaphysical themes) to quickly resolve a plot point at the last minute.

There's having fantasy elements in your sci-fi (which is totally fine as long as you do the narrative legwork to ground thm and make them work)... then there's just bad writing and last-minute deus ex machinas that exist purely to pull the plot out of whatever corner it has been written into.
 

Atmos Duality

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RJ 17 said:
TL;DR Version: What SC2 did to SC1, Necron did to Kuja in FF9.

The need to introduce an even bigger nastier baddie at the end to redeem the previous big bad is a terrible concept unless handled with care and subtle, but sound, foreshadowing.

LONGER VERSION:

I don't just object to SC2's retconning of the zerg on a technical level, but a thematic one.
Since someone else covered the retcons in detail, I won't repeat them ad-nauseum here.

IMO, the Zerg were at their best when they were described as a force of nature.

In SC1, they were a biological Borg. Assimilate the useful, devour the weak. Breed, conquer, evolve, repeat.
The Overmind was a true menace because it gave persona to an otherwise mindless juggernaut; and in doing so, elevated the tension when the other two major factions fought each other (and in-fought).

In Brood War, the tension came less from the UED invasion, and more from who controlled the now-leaderless Zerg Swarm. Whoever sat at on the empty throne of the Overmind had the power to conquer the Koprulu Sector (and likely beyond).
Turns out, "BROOD WAR" was a good name.

In SC2...the Zerg were retconned into race that were just pawns to a bigger villain (Amon), who was never mentioned or foreshadowed ONCE in the original lore or game.

The closest thing that we have to foreshadowing came from Duran in the secret mission in Brood War, but even that wasn't conclusive since:

a) His operation was very small scale; meant to be covert. (and staffed by TERRANS, despite him being Xel'Naga)
b) More in line with the Xel'Naga as they were originally described: Brilliant xenobiologists working to create what they thought was "perfect life".
c) It makes more sense for the Xel'Naga to act more covert and manipulative because their numbers were decimated by the Overmind (before it had assimilated most of its creatures into the Swarm, no less).

Personally, I think making the Xel'Naga a more manipulative force was the right move; but making them program the Overmind to evil (only to get scores of their number killed by it) was a stupid ass way to achieve that.

Them taking control of the Zerg AND (some) Protoss would have made for a more logical and effective escalation of threat. Given their previous stated motivation and purpose, it makes sense for them to want to "correct the mistakes" they made in their creations and finish what they started.

Instead of doing what SC2 has the Xel'Naga do: Make them (or Amon) into bargain-basement space-Diablo, who wants to cover the universe in darkness or some shit.

My issue, I think, is that it takes too much to explain Amon into the story and his dissonance with the previous tone of SC1 (especially the presentation of the Zerg).
 

RJ 17

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Atmos Duality said:
RJ 17 said:
TL;DR Version: What SC2 did to SC1, Necron did to Kuja in FF9.

The need to introduce an even bigger nastier baddie at the end to redeem the previous big bad is a terrible concept unless handled with care and subtle, but sound, foreshadowing.
I'm at work so I can't read and address all of your post (though I will when I get a chance). But just for starters: I can say that SCI/BW did contain foreshadowing.

Samir Duran.
The bonus level where Zeratul finds the hybrid lab.
The epilogue text stating that Kerrigan was staring out into the vastness of space sensing a looming darkness closing in.
 

Atmos Duality

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RJ 17 said:
Samir Duran.
The bonus level where Zeratul finds the hybrid lab.
The epilogue text stating that Kerrigan was staring out into the vastness of space sensing a looming darkness closing in.
Thing is: I can easily interpret Duran's exchange at the hybrid lab (including the existence and covert nature of the lab) as the work of the originally described Xel'Naga: manipulative xenobiologists. Which kind of flies in the face of their unstoppable demigod-like status in SC2.

If Amon and his forces were truly that powerful (the "original future" as described by Zeratul to Raynor in WoL showed them curb-stomping the entirety of the Protoss), I don't see why he was being subtle, or sending Duran to manipulate the factions against each another.

Same thing with Kerrigan's pondering.
She knows she's being played, but doesn't know how, or by who/what exactly.
Sensing the approach of Space-Satan just takes all the fun out of it, IMO.
 

RJ 17

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Atmos Duality said:
Thing is: I can easily interpret Duran's exchange at the hybrid lab (including the existence and covert nature of the lab) as the work of the originally described Xel'Naga: manipulative xenobiologists. Which kind of flies in the face of their unstoppable demigod-like status in SC2.

If Amon and his forces were truly that powerful (the "original future" as described by Zeratul to Raynor in WoL showed them curb-stomping the entirety of the Protoss), I don't see why he was being subtle, or sending Duran to manipulate the factions against each another.

Same thing with Kerrigan's pondering.
She knows she's being played, but doesn't know how, or by who/what exactly.
Sensing the approach of Space-Satan just takes all the fun out of it, IMO.
I'll grant you that such things open to interpretation. What I'm saying, however, is that the story as presented in SCII is a valid extrapolation of the foreshadowing presented.

Samir: "I serve a power beyond anything you can comprehend." Certainly could be referring to an ancient space god.

Kerrigan sensing an approaching darkness definitely fits the bill with sensing Amon's approach.

Knowing full well that she's somehow being manipulated further ties into the notion that Amon has always had the Zerg - at the very least - strongly influenced by his will.

If you find her sensing Amon's return/approach/what-have-you is disappointing then that's fine and understandable. All I'm saying is that the two stories do fit together. I have already conceded, though, that there have been some retcons...just not as many as some in this topic were implying.
 

xaszatm

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I wasn't a huge fan of the ended but I didn't hate it either. That being said, I'm now betting full money that Kerrigan's appearing in World of Warcraft now as something. Starcraft II is done but I don't think Blizzard done exploiting exploring her character yet to just leave her alone.
 

Hawki

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-Mass Effect: Okay, so "AI's that went rogue" is generic, but "space C'thulu that wants to kill you" isn't? Not saying one is better than the other, but given how we were steadily learning more and more about the Reapers, or at least making the effort to understand them, I like the payoff ME3 provides.

-Andromeda: There's a backstory to Trance's transformation that I'll spare you, but of the series of Andromeda I've seen, for me it goes 1>2>4>3. But learning more about Trance isn't the issue in it, nor is the ever-increasing threat of the Abyss. That, I thought, was well done. Andromeda is heavily flawed, but not for the reasons ascribed above.

-Prometheus: Actually, I'd say the problem with Prometheus was...well, there's a lot of problems, but:

1) It retcons everything we already did know about the mala'lak, down to their very biology and appearance (this isn't like the xel'naga, they've been seen and fleshed out long before this).

2) It raises questions, and DOESN'T answer them. And not in the Space Oddyssey kind of way, but more the "stay tuned for the sequel" kind of way.

Lack of answers is one of the main issues of Prometheus, not that the questions were raised.

-Dark Origin: Whatever interpretation one may have got from the ending, it's been stated outright that Amon was planned even then, and that the overall arc was planned in the original game. How detailed those plans were at the time is debatable, but whatever you believe about the concept of authoratorial intent, authoratorial intent nevertheless exists in this case.

-Zerg: Actually, what I like about SC2 is that it both subverts and reinforces the tropes initially associated with the zerg. In HotS, zerg 'culture' actually takes the time to be discussed, and the primal zerg I love because they're a visual and plot-centric microcosm for how the Swarm works. Visual storytelling and all that. In SC1, on the surface, the zerg are a simple race with simple goals. SC2 reveals the bigger picture (Amon), but it's keeping in tune with how the zerg work. The zerg follow whoever controls them. Whether it be the Overmind (SC1), UED (through the Second Overmind), Kerrigan (by the end of Brood War), Kaloth/Stukov (Resurrection), Kerrigan (SC2), Amon (LotV), or Zagara (post-LotV). That the zerg are slaves to an overriding directive and are happy to follow it (not that they could resist) is something I appreciate. And it adds further depth to the Overmind by giving him some depth of character - dedicated to the zerg cause, but filled with fear, regret, etc. Same reason why I think the Gravemind from Halo is an excellent villain, because it combines both the tropes associated with a hive mind, yet is full of recognisable human emotions, made especially prevalent in Halo 3.

-Duran/Xel'naga: Duran, by Dark Origin, is almost certainly the last xel'naga, and manipulation is his MO at this point. That Amon sets the zerg on the xel'naga doesn't undercut either the zerg or xel'naga, and the vision In Utter Darkness is academic to what happens at the past, considering it's the zerg and hybrids that are carrying Amon's will, not the xel'naga themselves.

And frankly, the xel'naga, while I always counted on them to return per the original manual (since it was hinted at even then), are far more interesting now with the revalations we now know. The Infinite Cycle, how it's tied into their very method of reproduction. Their psionic might. Their physical form. Capacity for great benevolance and great malignance. In SC1 they're portrayed as space scientists who create life for...some...reason. The careless scientist archeatype basically. The xel'naga have always had this almost metaphysical aspect entwined with them (e.g. the use of "temples"), and I like how SC2 runs with it. It actually makes them interesting.
 

Muspelheim

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It's a bit on the Blizzardy side, innit? Decent enough, though. Not a spellbounding end to an epic journey-material, but a nice cup of tea when coming home.

I don't mind the angel-bit, though. Because, really, what is the difference between a proper angel and a Lovecraftian creature? At least when they've forgotten to shapeshift.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Ezekiel's_vision.jpg

-"Damn it, W'eiil! You've got sixtyfour eyes and you didn't spot we forgot our disguises at home?"
-"Well, I didn't see you remember it with those four heads of yours!"
-"MY EEEEEYEEEESS..!"
 

Atmos Duality

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RJ 17 said:
If you find her sensing Amon's return/approach/what-have-you is disappointing then that's fine and understandable. All I'm saying is that the two stories do fit together. I have already conceded, though, that there have been some retcons...just not as many as some in this topic were implying.
Fair enough. I could ping-pong this all night, but I'd rather not risk this devolving into fan bickering.
You've been more reasonable than most fans, and that's reason enough for me.

Sufficed to say, I absolutely hated what Blizzard did to the Zerg and the Overmind in SC2.

The Overmind wasn't an especially deep character, but it never had to be to be effective, for the same reason The Borg didn't have to be. There's a great analog between how Blizzard handled the Zerg in SC2, and how Star Trek handled the Borg after TNG.

The introduction of either marked them as an incredible threat that couldn't be reasoned with, or ignored.
But every subsequent attempt to expand on them made them less and less of a threat.

In Voyager, an isolated Federation starship repeatedly thwarted the Borg threat to them through increasingly convoluted schemes. By Voyager's end, they were a sad joke compared to where they started, and for all the wrong reasons: Writer convenience.

The Zerg started as this juggernaut of natural selection devoid of all emotion and reason, save for the Overmind and its Cerebrates. By SC2, they were retconned into being a SYMPATHETIC RACE to push the Xel'Naga as "the greaterest threat", despite the Xel'Naga having been beat by the Zerg (in the Swarm's infancy, no less).

Even if the writer somehow rationalizes around thematic issues, or technically weasels around all the ugly details, I just can't take any of the story seriously if I know the main antagonists can and will be retroactively trivialized in an instant to double-down on the same kind of plot, because the writer can't think of anything better.
 

RJ 17

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Atmos Duality said:
You've been more reasonable than most fans, and that's reason enough for me.
Hehe, trust me, I've all my own reasons for not particularly liking Blizzard. Beyond that, I don't have nearly enough invested in this series to go on a fanboy rant defense. :p

The Zerg started as this juggernaut of natural selection devoid of all emotion and reason, save for the Overmind and its Cerebrates. By SC2, they were retconned into being a SYMPATHETIC RACE to push the Xel'Naga as "the greaterest threat", despite the Xel'Naga having been beat by the Zerg (in the Swarm's infancy, no less).
Personally I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're a "sympathetic race", but rather they're now ruled by a sympathetic figure. All the Zerg you talk to as Kerrigan in HotS assume that it's going to be "business as usual." They fully expect to get the war engine revved up again and go on another rampage throughout the sector. Abathur wants to continue with his genetic experiments by dissecting every lifeform he can get his hands on, the "computer" questions why Kerrigan isn't on another path of destruction, and of course Zargara wants to go on another rampage as well.

This begs the question: now that Zargara is in control of the Swarm...there verywell could be another Zerg rampage. She learned much about being an effective leader from Kerrigan, but that doesn't mean she was taught to be a peace-loving, benevolent ruler. During the epilogue it even states that under her command, the Zerg went on to forcibly take numerous worlds in the general region of Char.

Even if the writer somehow rationalizes around thematic issues, or technically weasels around all the ugly details, I just can't take any of the story seriously if I know the main antagonists can and will be retroactively trivialized in an instant to double-down on the same kind of plot, because the writer can't think of anything better.
So let me ask you what I asked the OP of this topic: what kind of ending would you have liked? Or perhaps a better question for you in particular would be "what kind of story would you have liked?" More of the same with Kerrigan just going on another round of backstabbing conquests across the sector with the other races having to ally against her? Keeping Kerrigan as the big-bad throughout the story would negate - if you ask me - the foreshadowing that Duran, the Hybrid Lab, and the Zerg Epilogue provided in BW.

So as an honest/curious question: if you were the lead writer for the SCII series, what story would you have chosen to tell, keeping in mind all the story elements/foreshadowing that was set up in SC and BW?
 

rcs619

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Hawki said:
-Mass Effect: Okay, so "AI's that went rogue" is generic, but "space C'thulu that wants to kill you" isn't? Not saying one is better than the other, but given how we were steadily learning more and more about the Reapers, or at least making the effort to understand them, I like the payoff ME3 provides.
Considering how few games actually handle Lovecraftian themes decently? Yeah, a species of biomechanical space-cthulhus is waaaay more interesting than just another group of rogue AI's trying to kill organics because organics are super unpredictable and dangerous. That motivation makes up the vast majority of rogue AI stories.

That's why the Geth are a far more interesting and compelling species than the Reapers... and if your main, iconic, series-wide big bads are less interesting than a minor species with relatively little characterization, you've done something wrong.

Lack of answers is one of the main issues of Prometheus, not that the questions were raised.
Once again, I just have to disagree there. The mystery was one of the most compelling aspects of the xenomorphs. You learned about what they did, but never *why* they were doing it, where they came from, or how truly intelligent they actually are (although there are interesting hints throughout the movies on that front). And the not-knowing doesn't actually matter. The xenomorphs are going to do xenomorph things regardless of what you think, and all you can do is struggle frantically not to die in a variety of horrible ways.

Sometimes, the scariest things and the most compelling story elements are the blanks you leave for people to fill in themselves. Look at how cool and baddass Samus Aran was... until Nintendo gave her significant dialogue and backstory, and then she was one of the worst female characters ever written.

Muspelheim said:
I don't mind the angel-bit, though. Because, really, what is the difference between a proper angel and a Lovecraftian creature? At least when they've forgotten to shapeshift.
I'd actually love it if more media depicted angels more in line with the bible. Some of them where quite horrific. Wheels within wheels, spinning while they were on fire, covered in hundreds of eyes. You could do a lot of interesting things with making a benevolent being look like some sort of cosmic horror. Bayonetta went in that direction a bit (and the art direction in that game was super cool), but I wish they'd have gone further.

But you'd also probably make a bunch of Christians mad too.