Square Enix Frustration

[userwhoquitthesite]

I'll be up front, this is mostly me ranting.

But can someone remind me why we still care about Square?
What have they done recently that was so great? I know they MUST have, but all that's popping up are the huge disappoinments.
First and foremost: Kingdom Hearts 3. This game should have been released on the PS3 years ago, and instead, we're stuck waiting for the PS4 and hoping they get around to it.
Final Fantasy XIII: a terrible game, even if you like JRPGS (and i do). The combat is boring and takes too long, the leveling is at best counter-intuitive and at worst flat-out idiotic. The story (the most important part of any JRPG) is CRAP. It makes no sense at any point, which could almost be forgiven if they told it well, but instead the game does it's level best to never give you any information at all.
Then they made a SEQUEL to this awful game, which invalidated the events of the first game via time travel, and then a sequel to the sequel to try and fix the timeline. Good job making the adventures pointless, Square.

In fact, let's talk about this horrible FFXIII mire in general. Square has a horrendous track record for getting its games out, and it plans FOUR simultaneous games (which has become six, nowhere close to simultaneous games)? On top of all their other projects? What idiot made this decision? Especially given the choice to tie it all to XIII, which makes ME not want to give the others a chance. I can't be alone, since they're doing all they can to get rid of that name attachment on the non-sequel games, including making VS XIII into the next number title.

Then there's this recent bullshit with the HD rerelease of FFX/X-2. How badly do you have to be running things when a reissue takes at least six more months to churn out?! It was announced for YESTERDAY, and quietly pushed back to an unknown time, the best guess so far is an exec who thinks "maybe february 2014". That's just appalling.

And then there's what they're doing with series. Kingdom Hearts keeps getting more and more stupid, to the point where I'm not sure I AM looking forward to the third game ever being released. FFVII is cheapened with every crappy tie-in released. Normally, I am of the opinion that no, you can't ruin a great work just by making stuff to go with it, but this is one instance where I really do feel the value of the original is diminished. Both KH and FFVII have fallen into this horrendous pit of direction where, to sell whatever new crap they put out, they directly attack the original material that made us WANT to see more in the first place. "oh, sora's just some lucky douche who has no right to be caught up in this adventure, if the REAL keyblade wielders were here, this whole mess would have been fixed easily, because they're SOOOOOOOOO much cooler, you guys". "Oh yeah, Vincent could have single-handedly stopped Sephiroth's little hissy fit, but he was busy being sad. And Sephiroth is just an imitation of this other, BETTER Sephiroth, and there were a couple other Sephiroths too, who are also way cooler. And Zach was basically a god and WAY better than Cloud because Cloud has to like, overcome stuff, and thats totally gay".

Retcons, stupid story directions, lackluster games (358/2 is downright abysmal, at least Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus were only dull) and this ugly rush for profit (that they can't plan properly and push back releases constantly) ruin great series.
We all know how terrible the FFIV release was, now they're running an ad campaign for their new, supposedly non-busted version (though still with the classic fun of massive server problems) that hearkens back to the "loser in the basement" stereotype with its command for us to "escape" reality and play pretend with our awesome pretty fantasy characters (and no, my perception of the ad isn't being colored by my problems with square, as I was bothered by it BEFORE I knew what it was advertising).

And just recently, whining about disc copies driving them out of business when it's clear they have no idea how to spend their budget (advertising twice as much as the game could possibly make up for, spending millions to make an otherwise crappy game LOOK really shiny, etc).

Why do we care anymore? is there anything they're making or even publishing that makes them worth it?
Seriously, I'm asking. I don't WANT to hate this company.

 

[Jazoni89]

Well, despite all that, at least Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, is a fantastic MMO.

I'm getting to be a true addict to that game now. Sqeenix did a great job with that game, after the original version wasn't well received at all.

It had a few teething problems, but they are fixed now.

Also, i am certain that KH3 would be worth the wait, especially since Disney acquired a few new IP's.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't give a rat's arse about the games they make themselves, but they've been putting out some decent stuff as a publisher.

Tomb Raider, Hitman: Absolution and Deus Ex: Human Revolution were all pretty good in my book and, as far as I'm aware, relatively free of publisher evildoing.

 

[Thr33X]

As said above, they have rights now to Tomb Raider, Hitman and Deus Ex. As good as those games have been, they will never be the flagship though, that's always going to be Final Fantasy, no matter how many times they try to make it relevant again. Truth be told, Square Enix in my opinion is using their resources all wrong, trying to make people fall in love with RPGs again, when the writings on the wall...RPGs have become a niche...again.

At one point it was big genre, but now in the era of multiplayer gaming RPG are only played by those who love RPGs. Most other gamers, especially most causal gamers are not going to get into the genre as they would have maybe 7-8 years ago. Instead of putting a little more effort forth into expanding on their other key franchises (the ones they inherited from Eidos), they continue to keep trying to force the next great FF game out, when the only people paying attention now are the ones who choose to. Incidentally, they're also the ones who're being left disappointed every time.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

I don't give a rat's arse about the games they make themselves, but they've been putting out some decent stuff as a publisher.

Tomb Raider, Hitman: Absolution and Deus Ex: Human Revolution were all pretty good in my book and, as far as I'm aware, relatively free of publisher evildoing.

I didn't care for Human Revolution, but it wasn't bad. But as far as publisher evil, they made Tomb Raider a failure by advertising so heavily they couldnt remake their money. Maybe that's not evil, but its certainly incompetent

 

[shrekfan246]

Why do we care anymore? . . . I don't WANT to hate this company.

You answered your own question.

We care because we don't want to see Square Enix kill themselves like this.

We care because we see all of these idiotic decisions Square is making, and we're worried that they're going to make themselves wither away into nothing.

We care because we remember the glory days long gone by, and wistfully hope for Square to return to being a behemoth in the industry, something to become excited about instead of something to sigh at in dejection and pity.

 

[Thr33X]

Bad games + bad business = Bye Bye.

And sadly Square doesn't have the financial cushion of an EA to continue to do both without the possibilities of going belly up before the next generation ends. Tragically, like I said...they have GOOD games with which to work with however. Personally they need to throw Final Fantasy in the fridge for a while and start cooking something else.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

we're worried that they're going to make themselves wither away into nothing.

You know, maybe that's what they need. Final Fantasy happened because the company was going bankrupt. Course, then you have to say "but what about everyone who works there, they'll fire people long before they went bankrupt".


What galls me is this whole adding to shit. This is a company who's flagship properties are all about having us buy the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around. Why corrupt your beloved titles by shoehorning in all this extra crap, instead of just making a new game?

 

[FourCartridge]

*looks at copy of KH 1.5*

Well, they made games I was excited about. I've never played a KH game and yet I can't stop playing whenever I do. Super Mario RPG was a great foray into the Marioverse and FFTA is one of the best SRPGs out there.

They make games I like. That's why I care about them.

 

[Jazoni89]

Bad games + bad business = Bye Bye.

And sadly Square doesn't have the financial cushion of an EA to continue to do both without the possibilities of going belly up before the next generation ends. Tragically, like I said...they have GOOD games with which to work with however. Personally they need to throw Final Fantasy in the fridge for a while and start cooking something else.

Square have been absolute saints compared to Capcom.

Now that's a company that needs, and deserves to die, and sell off all of it's IP's to the highest bidder.

Only then we can see a new Onimusha, and Megaman, including a proper Breath of Fire 6, that's not a casual shitty I-Pad game.

At least Square hasn't betrayed it's fanbase...yet (not matter how much some people hated FF13, including me), and they still keep pumping out great published games, and new Kingdom Hearts titles on handhelds. Square is definitely not a company to sit on IP's as much as Capcom does.

 

[Lilani]

Well, despite all that, at least Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, is a fantastic MMO.

I'm getting to be a true addict to that game now. Sqeenix did a great job with that game, after the original version wasn't well received at all.

It had a few teething problems, but they are fixed now.

Also, i am certain that KH3 would be worth the wait, especially since Disney acquired a few new IP's.

I agree wholeheartedly on FFXIV. If an epic-but-still-knows-how-to-have-fun story is what you like in your Final Fantasy, FFXIV delivers. While the story is revealed in MMO fashion rather than standard JRPG (mini-quests, dungeons, instanced battles, etc) there are still lots of stories to be told, and lots of great characters to have fun with.

And as for KH, Birth By Sleep was my favorite installment since the first one--and that's including KH2. KH2 got on my nerves because the new mechanics took so much control away from the player. The drive systems were fun to play with, but they were completely inaccessible in the final boss battle, making them an irrelevant battle skill to cultivate. The whole boss sequence felt like a mildly interactive film the player was given access to press a few buttons every now and then, and the final battle with Xemnas pissed me off because it literally resorted to "Press triangle as fast as you can to survive."

But in BBS, they not only gave the player back more of that control, but they also brought back a lot of the quirk I think got needlessly thrown overboard in KH2. BBS felt like an extension of that same KH1 universe, while KH2 felt like a caricature of it (ESPECIALLY Atlantica). And I found the end of BBS to be more engaging and emotional than the ending of KH2.

I haven't finished Dream Drop Distance just yet, but I also feel like it kept that good balance of quirkiness and seriousness, and the battle system is solid.

I'm not saying any of this to excuse FFXIII or KH: Coded, but I think it goes to show there are at least a few arms of Square Enix that haven't jumped the shark just yet.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

, Birth By Sleep was my favorite installment since the first one

Ok, I will admit, that one was alright. It still has problems relating to the overall story, and would have played better if it hadn't been on the PSP, but I still had fun with it. Though, it's part of the whole "crap all over sora's achievements" thing that i'm annoyed by.

 

[shrekfan246]

What galls me is this whole adding to shit. This is a company who's flagship properties are all about having us buy the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around. Why corrupt your beloved titles by shoehorning in all this extra crap, instead of just making a new game?

Erm...

Just as a point of note, Crisis Core doesn't really take anything away from Final Fantasy VII. The story in VII was always pretty bonkers in the first place (and I'd say it's been bonkers in most of the ones since with the possible exception of XII), so when you consider a story about Zack, whom Cloud basically tried to become, building up Zack as a Marty Stu... kinda makes sense. The game didn't really need to exist, sure, but it's not bad and doesn't really impact what already existed, especially negatively. Most people ignore Dirge of Cerberus, and Advent Children didn't really have much of a plot in the first place.

Personally, I like Crisis Core and Advent Children, because I like the location. I like the urban fantasy-lite theme of VII's world, so seeing more of it isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

As for Final Fantasy XIII, I imagine Square is just trying to test the waters and see what works for them. You or I may not be interested in more XIII, but for many people it was their first Final Fantasy, and as such it still hooked them in well enough. But I really don't think you can make the argument that XIII-2 was "the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around". Except for the basis of the Paradigm system, the stacking commands in combat, characters, and locations, practically nothing else about the game was actually the same as XIII. The combat system bore a lot of similarities, sure, but much of it had still changed under the hood.

I do have to hope you're not trying to generalize the entire Final Fantasy franchise under the banner of "having us buy the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around." The main numbered Final Fantasy games, especially post-IX, bear practically no resemblance to whatever the previous title in the franchise was, outside of potentially similar themes and a unifying trait of having a story that's batshit insane. Pre-IX they also had similar combat systems, but they've even been switching those up for the last decade.

 

[Thebazilly]

I hated FFXIII, and I agree completely on how they've just piled infinite bullshit onto the KH series. But I'm starting to regain faith in the company again. FFXIV is a good MMO, and I'm probably going to cave in and buy FFX HD and KH 1.5, since I sold off the originals with my old PS2 and I'm getting nostalgic. Updated graphics/finally getting to play Final Mix are a plus, too.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Erm...

Just as a point of note, Crisis Core doesn't really take anything away from Final Fantasy VII.

Yes it does.

The story in VII was always pretty bonkers in the first place (and I'd say it's been bonkers in most of the ones since with the possible exception of XII)

How? Everything in FFVII is adequately explained, the themes are well represented (identity and the nature of the self, power earned vs granted, human potential) and executed with excellent story integration

, so when you consider a story about Zack, whom Cloud basically tried to become, building up Zack as a Marty Stu... kinda makes sense.

No, it doesn't. It's lazy, and the things that paint Zach as this hyperbadass go out of their way to crap on cloud's achievements. Crisis Core isn't quite as bad as Last Order, but still

The game didn't really need to exist, sure, but it's not bad and doesn't really impact what already existed, especially negatively.

yes it did. it completely invalidates Sephiroth's backstory and emotional conflict in the original game.

Most people ignore Dirge of Cerberus,

you can't if you played Crisis Core, because part of what Crisis Core is about is introduced in Dirge

and Advent Children didn't really have much of a plot in the first place.

and that's why its the least offensive of the addons. It doesn't make sense with the old story, but as soon as you accept "ok, sephiroth clones are here for some reason, Rufus wasn't cosmically punished for his deeds, Cloud completely reversed his emotional growth so that he'd look cool in a new outfit" then you can enjoy a cheesy action flick with cool effects

Personally, I like Crisis Core and Advent Children, because I like the location. I like the urban fantasy-lite theme of VII's world, so seeing more of it isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

and there are lots of other games that do it. Like, the exact same kind of setting. So why tie the story about evil underground soldiers or literal supermen doing battle to FFVII when the setting you just praised was FAR less fantastical than they made it ir the add-ons?

As for Final Fantasy XIII, I imagine Square is just trying to test the waters and see what works for them.

test the waters how? By taking their exact same formula and making it less playable and tying it to a plot that could have been dealt with in minutes and fails its own logic?

You or I may not be interested in more XIII, but for many people it was their first Final Fantasy

and that's a damn shame

, and as such it still hooked them in well enough. But I really don't think you can make the argument that XIII-2 was "the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around".

you're about to prove my point for me

Except for the basis of the Paradigm system, the stacking commands in combat, characters, and locations, practically nothing else about the game was actually the same as XIII

See? The characters are the same, the location, and the basic combat is the same. The story isn't, but it never is, and this story still loses for negating the player's efforts in the previous game.

. The combat system bore a lot of similarities, sure, but much of it had still changed under the hood.

they've made some improvements on the worst part of the first game, but still have a lot of the same issues

I do have to hope you're not trying to generalize the entire Final Fantasy franchise under the banner of "having us buy the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around." The main numbered Final Fantasy games, especially post-IX, bear practically no resemblance to whatever the previous title in the franchise was, outside of potentially similar themes and a unifying trait of having a story that's batshit insane. Pre-IX they also had similar combat systems, but they've even been switching those up for the last decade.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The specifics of the game change each time, but the core game is the same. a small group of people teams up to fight small monsters on the way to fight a big monster that somehow threatens the whole world, be it due to time magic, imaginary friends and a sweet airship, catholic godzilla, w/e. They are turn-based games where a mix of melee and magic (and sometimes guns) are used to defeat random critters that logically should mean road travel is impossible for most people but we'll ignore that because videogames. They usually feature at least one summoner, similar characters, the same spells and items, the same spirit. And until recently, even the worst stories in FF werent AWFUL they just weren't very good.

 

[shrekfan246]

Snip

No offense, but you're sounding like one of those people who gets outraged at Sonic the Hedgehog's eye color being changed to green.

I like Final Fantasy as much as the next guy, but sometimes you just need to take a step back, chill off, and realize that these aren't really terribly important in the grand scheme of things.

That said...

That's exactly what I'm saying. The specifics of the game change each time, but the core game is the same. a small group of people teams up to fight small monsters on the way to fight a big monster that somehow threatens the whole world, be it due to time magic, imaginary friends and a sweet airship, catholic godzilla, w/e. They are turn-based games where a mix of melee and magic (and sometimes guns) are used to defeat random critters that logically should mean road travel is impossible for most people but we'll ignore that because videogames. They usually feature at least one summoner, similar characters, the same spells and items, the same spirit. And until recently, even the worst stories in FF werent AWFUL they just weren't very good.

Similar themes and recurring elements =/= "The same game again". The recurring elements are the only things that tie the Final Fantasy games together. If there weren't Chocobos and Moogles, Ultima Weapon, Cid, Shiva/Ifrit/Bahamut, etc. then you would literally be able to change the name to anything else and have the game stand fine on its own. That, pretty much by definition, precludes them from being the exact same thing as the last Final Fantasy all over again.

As a bit of an off-topic tangent, I can only hope you also say that Zelda and Mario have been the same games again and again for the last twenty-five years.

 

[LaoJim]

Personally Square-Enix have earned themselves my undying love for rescuing Sleeping Dogs after Activision dropped it. Also Just Cause 2.

The JRPG side of things does seem chaotic.

 

[Zetatrain]

What galls me is this whole adding to shit. This is a company who's flagship properties are all about having us buy the same game as the last one, with stuff switched around. Why corrupt your beloved titles by shoehorning in all this extra crap, instead of just making a new game?

Whether or not you enjoyed all the tie in stuff for FFVII I don't understand how they corrupt or ruin the original work. Is it too hard just to pretend that they never happened/existed despite them being officially recognized as part of canon?

Final Fantasy VII was a good game with a good story and IMO opinion is a complete work without all those tie-in and sequel games and movies.

This is like all those Star Wars fans who say that the prequel trilogy ruined the original trilogy.

 

[michael87cn]

Well, despite all that, at least Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, is a fantastic MMO.

I'm getting to be a true addict to that game now. Sqeenix did a great job with that game, after the original version wasn't well received at all.

It had a few teething problems, but they are fixed now.

Also, i am certain that KH3 would be worth the wait, especially since Disney acquired a few new IP's.

I disagree. I think it's a pretty terrible MMORPG. But I may have different tastes.

I spent 3 days with the game, and found it very lacking.

The zones are empty of imagination, of reason to explore. They're just 'there' to exist. There's not really any intelligent placement of things/locations/stuff to explore. It's just there. Like a randomly generated minecraft map. Oh look, a river! Oh, giant frogs inhabit it. That's creative.....not. What else is in the zone? Lots of grass and flowers! OMG the graphics are so amazing! Oh, but that's about it really. There's.... grass and flowers and monsters. But the world seems lifeless...

Armor sets look ridiculous. This kind of thing shouldn't happen anymore... by level 15, I had stockpiled a bunch of "bronze" armor sets, which their icons made them look like cool dark brownish plate armor. In reality it was power ranger red, and my pants were basically a BRIGHT yellow thong. Great, that makes me feel like all that grinding xp was a waste, as my newbie clothes looked better.

There's no reason to really talk to, or play with anyone. All the classes feel the same, and do about the same amount of damage to npcs.

The animations look really strange to me, and waaaay too flaunty. Characters (male human especially) run really strangely. Like they need the bathroom badly.

Also, each job has like.... 5 core abilities. That's it. There's really no character customization at all, except swapping skills from other jobs, but still, it really feels like there's not much to gain by leveling up.

The professions are a seriously hardcore grind in this game, but sadly very un-rewarding. By the time you've spent about 3 hours working on mining and armorsmithing, you can make level 1 quality gear, yay! (but you start with this gear already, so its really a massive waste of your time).

All in all, I'm just so disappointed in this game, it could have been so much more and its a great example of how spending most of your budget on graphic quality can take away from the gameplay experience.

It's only pro, in my opinion, is that its a major MMO that's available on a console.

 

[Reise]

Square Enix really does seem to be one of the least evil publishers around. They're not afraid to try new things and even when they 'milk' a franchise--to an extent that isn't even comparable to EA, Ubisoft, Activision, or Capcom--they actually give the developers at least some time to do it right.

Hell, they even admitted they made a mistake. You think EA/BioWare apologized for DA2 or ME3? Nope. You think EA apologized for Spore or SimCity 4? Nope. You think Ubisoft gave a flying crap when they shut down their servers for a move, thus depriving their paying, non-pirating customers of content that was paid for? Ubisoft basically told 'em to go wipe their asses with the games.

Now, does SE have their jackass moments? Certainly, but they're not malicious jackasses. And apart from their JRPG division, their heads aren't entirely cemented up their own buttholes.

I mean, really, we've already lost THQ. How many publishers are left that aren't just around to regurgitate the same crap over and over?

Eventually, it's going to really, really suck to be a major developer. You either occasionally picked up for a mediocre game then fade away, or you actually publish a good game, one of the major publishers take you over, and you're forced to start pumping out dumbed down, streamlined sequels year after year until the IP implodes.