Square Enix is a ?Complete Failure?

[Norrdicus]

Just Cause 2 is the pinnacle of the "blow stuff up" sub-genre. And there's a great big Squeenix logo attached to it. Not everything they do is sub-par.

Actually, even Just Cause 2 could be better. It could have the in-depth demolitions and destruction of Red Faction Guerrilla

More than once have I destroyed many of the walls of an office building with my hammer, then put plastic explosives on the load-bearing parts, blow it up and see it crumble from a distance, then smash a small hole into a huge pipe with the hammer so I can go inside and hide it out

 

[daveman247]

snip

THAT would be awesome, maybe in the next generation ^_^

A sequal to guerilla would be great too, WAS NOT a fan of armogeddon.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

This company's become nothing more than a publisher that occasionally rehashes a game with "Final Fantasy" in the title every now and again. Games like Just Cause and Human Revolution weren't made by Square Enix, guys.

Even Enix, the side of the merger I'd be more likely to defend, is doing the same thing, but with "Final Fantasy" replaced by "Dragon Quest", albeit at a much, much lesser rate.

 

[RN7]

I liked FFX, and FXIII. FX-2 was ok, and I never bothered with XIII-2. I wouldn't call Square Enix a "complete failure", but their latest content has been somewhat lackluster. I'm waiting for Kingdom Hearts 3 to pass final judgment.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Square-Enix
Or, "Squeenix", as I call them.
Finally crashed and burned did they?

It's a painful relationship between me and Square; having grown up playing their classic RPGs, seen their more ambitious work when it was new, and then...to see them merge with a dying Enix, and descend into exploitation and mediocrity (with the occasional dose of stunning incompetence).

I still count some of their early games as favorites (Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy Tactics, FF6), but it's clear to me that they have no more ambition or competence.
Been clear to me for years, really.

I have been saying SE has been crap since the merger, pretty much since right after the merger.

I was "late" to that party, and didn't start calling Squeenix crap until after I saw Advent Children. Good grief I felt dirty and stupid just watching that.

Post-merger Square has had precisely ONE big hit with me (both developed and published games), and that's Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
Well, ok, War of the Lions was fucking amazing save for the inexplicable gameplay slowdown, but that was a remake of a brilliant game.

The rest of their hits with me are...meh.
-Crisis Core had great moments, but was overall bland and combat was very boring.
-Radiata Stories had so many problems...it looked cheap and ugly, the combat was clunky as hell, and it's painfully short. However, the branched story line and blunt satire of RPG tropes at least made it memorable.

On the other hand...
-Dirge of Cerberus: When the game isn't broken, it's boring. When it isn't boring, it's insanity. And at no point is it ever good. The story is convoluted, terrible, and plays like a fanfic.

-Mindjack: The most incompetent shooter I've seen (and played) since Daikatana.
That's up against over a solid decade of contenders.
It's a D-grade shooter trapped in a AAA body. (the CG cutscenes and audio are not quite up to Squeenix's standards, but they're definitely not bargain-basement either).

It was also final proof that Squeenix wasn't paying much attention to the properties it was financing. Now, I'm all for the publisher not meddling in the affairs of its developers, but this was a situation where someone should have stepped back and went "Holy shit this is awful."

 

[kyogen]

"Complete failure" is pointless hyperbole. It's a volatile industry in a tough economy, and S-E needs to update its work-flow processes as well as its design philosophy. That much has been obvious for quite awhile, and such problems are hardly unique to S-E. The company will probably never be the undisputed top dog of the Japanese games industry again, but the market doesn't really encourage that kind of single-company dominance right now in any case.

 

[LittleBlondeGoth]

Need a minute to stop twitching from the bloke who said FFIX was forgettable... Shame on you, sir.

In my book, they aren't a complete failure, not by a long shot. But this isn't to say they've not made some eyebrow raising decisions lately. I've actually enjoyed just about every Final Fantasy they've released, but some are definitely streets ahead of the others. I thought XIII was a good game. Was it what I want / expect of the FF series? Well not really, no. Do I think it warrants two sequels? No. Do I wish, really really wish, they'd pull their finger out and do something with Versus because that showed glimmers of awesome? Dear God, yes.

Personally I enjoy turn based combat, so don't want them to stop with this and the JRPG style. there are those of us out there who think it's great. But then I also got a huge kick out of Mass Effect and Uncharted and things, so let's not stick the blinkers on. There's room for both types of game in this world, scrapping one is not going to solve all the problems.

At the moment it feels like they've got too many things on the go at once, so nothing is getting the attention it needs. Hopefully they'll take on board some of the honest, constructive criticism from the latest releases and get their act together a bit.

Capcha: Fairy Godmother. Maybe that's what we need?

 

[j0frenzy]

So I've let this mull about in my head for most of the day trying to think of how to respond. I do definitely think that Square-Enix is objectively less respected than where either studio was prior to the merger, but I don't think it is the merger's fault entirely. No Japanese developer really weathered the transition to the most recent console generation well. Add to that their focus genre, the JRPG, also haven't weathered the transition well. It is hard to stay on top when the market shifts away from you.
Additionally, I think we tend to forget their accomplishments in light of their Final Fantasy missteps. They still brought us the 2 Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced games, The World End With You, Dissidia, most of the Kingdom Hearts series and what were allegedly some good Wiiware games (according to some people I know).
That isn't to say Final Fantasy 12 and 13 didn't have missteps, they keep teasing us with HD remakes of their most remembered games, and they don't get the app store market by charging well north of $10 in a $0.99 market.
I will admit to having shifted away from Square-Enix since the merger, but that had a lot to do with a shifting taste in games as opposed a full decline in quality. Personally, I think they are doing alright though I wouldn't mind seeing a shift in their design philosophy.

 

[MammothBlade]

Square-Enix has lost direction, but it still has an abundance of talent. Some S-E creative influence has filtered through to the Eidos IPs, and it shows positively.

I don't want Squeenix to fail. It needs to get its arse in gear. I think it HAS been taking creative risks with new IPs such as The World Ends With You (very successful) and The Last Remnant (fail), but it's been burned by a few significant failures. Also, it's not taken good care of its established franchises. Final Fantasy is in bad shape after the colossal bomb that was/is XIV, and to a lesser extent the mediocrity of XIII [sup]1[/sup]. I know they're trying to rectify that with a reboot for FFXIV, but the reputation of the series has been damaged, and Versus XIII is in limbo. I was looking forward to it, but at this rate it will be the next Duke Nukem Forever. *sigh*

If there's one thing Square-Enix need to learn, it's that they should focus on getting things right rather than juggle dozens of projects at once.

[sup]1) I mean in my personal opinion, Final Fantasy XIII was the most superficial FF ever. It wasn't a well-rounded and fleshed-out game on par with most of its predecessors. Pretty, charming, but its gameplay was so so boring.[/sup]

 

[Baron_Rouge]

Hold on...didn't they publish Deus Ex at least? That was awesome. And Just Cause 2 was immense fun as well. Also, I think Final Fantasy XII was made after the merger, and that was one of the more awesome Final Fantasy's, in my opinion. Sleeping Dogs is also generally ocnsidered to be really good, as far as I can tell. They can't be a complete failure.

 

[Charli]

Need a minute to stop twitching from the bloke who said FFIX was forgettable... Shame on you, sir.

You're not alone... Unintended pun.


I'm not going to go into a huge rant but I will state for the record that FF10 was their last 'decent' attempt for me.

Anything there after apart from Kingdom Hearts 2 (and even that held seeds of their story/art direction which wasn't sitting quite well with me) has failed to hold my attention and I am now very skeptical at buying anything with SE's name on it. Let alone a final fantasy.

The art style is bland, the stories and filler pieces are soulless, it just looks like cash grab after cash grab. TWEWY looked interesting but the studio barely got behind it! And subsequently it's only got a 'cult' following.


Too many projects, creatively drained, not enough funneling of resources into a few key things. And yeah they've lost alot of RPG footing in the Western Market. I can go into why, but I'd take up more ranting than I care to at this hour. There are reasons I agree with this guy.

Creatively bankrupt sounds fitting. I won't renounce my childhood so easily, hell Sega did more damning things to my memories of iconic video game franchises but something is rotten in Square Enix and it needs addressing before it collapses.


Edit: we're not talking about their publishing here folks, I'm talking their development.

 

[Jfswift]

That's a bit unfair. I felt that the new Deus ex was pretty cool. I didn't mind FF 13 that much either really. I keep seeing that the new FF isn't very good though so maybe the company is getting worse?

 

[Zio_IV]

Honestly, while I understand some people's misgivings towards Square-Enix (I'll admit they've become incredibly eccentric lately), I don't really think they truly deserve to be called "a complete failure". I also thought, at one time, that they deserved what hate they were getting, but then I took a step back and realized: Even the worst games made by Squaresoft, Enix, and Square-Enix are usually better than most games out there.

The Final Fantasy series gets the most amount of undeserved flak, I think. Have any FF games truly played identical to one another? No, they haven't. Even though the ATB system was in play from FF2-FF9, all of the mechanics that influenced how you customize your party and play within that ATB system have been different every time, with no replication between games, even if they take place in the same universe. They at least try to innovate every time, to one degree or another. Whether or not they succeed or fall short for certain titles is open for discussion of course, but I don't think they deserve all the hate they get.

That said, all I really want is for the Enix team to make a true sequel to Valkyrie Profile. Covenant of the Plume was good, but we need a real next-gen VP.

 

[The_Echo]

All can be forgiven for them if THEY WOULD JUST RELEASE KINGDOM HEARTS 3 already! Jeez...

Calm down. It's not even being developed yet. The releases that have happened in the meantime since II are important to the plot and set the stage for III, and have all been released with about a year between them. So, there's no real reason to complain. (EDIT: Except for these games being spread across platforms, but hey, that's what the HD ReMIX is for.)

as they've managed to put Final Fantasy Versus XIII into development hell, holding Kingdom Hearts III hostage with it

Y'know, it's been seven years now... I think they should just drop Versus XIII. If that's all that's holding up development on KHIII, I don't see why they can't at least put it on hold and develop a game they can actually finish. Not like Versus XIII is going anywhere anyway.

OT: I wouldn't call Square Enix a complete failure, not by a long shot. They haven't made the best decisions, but I think a company is only a "complete failure" when it actually fails completely.

 

[Olas]

All can be forgiven for them if THEY WOULD JUST RELEASE KINGDOM HEARTS 3 already! Jeez...

Don't hold your breath.

Though at least they are still releasing some Kingdom Hearts games to remind us they haven't forgotten the IP.

 

[tokae]

I'd like to say that I don't give a shit about Square Enix anymore but I can't.
I really liked XIII-2. I still play Just Cause 2 at times. I love the Crystal Chronicles-series and the Tactics-games. Dragon Quest is a great series, so is Kingdom Hearts. The World Ends With You is one of my favorite games ever.

Granted that I have no clue what Dirge of Cerberus even means but I just can't dislike them. I can't not care.

 

[Beautiful End]

Yeah. there was a time when Squaresoft was pretty good and I would buy anything made by them. Hell, I bought every PS1 FF, The Bouncer, Chrono Trigger and Kingdom Hearts just because it has Squaresoft on the cover (KH1 was made by Square alone). But after the merge...oh boy.

It's not that they don't have good game, it's just that they're not as good as to what they got us used to. Honestly, I love the PS1-and-below FFs while the newer FF games are...not as memorable. FFXII was good but it could have been better. FFXIII...well, I'm not even gonna elaborate on that one. Drakengard, Star Ocean, the other KHs, TWEWY, Dissidia; they're okay. Hell, some are REALLY good. But most of their games nowadays feel like they're missing something.

Oh, what I would give to see a FF game like those released about 15 years ago. Or KH3. Either/or.

When SE stopped giving a damn about its original fanbase and started trying to 'Madden' FF7...

Well, I'd say that's when it went downhill.

Am I the only one who got this?

I agree anyway. You got Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, Crisis Core, the movie...I'm pretty sure I'm still forgetting a couple. But the point is they're just trying to milk their golden goose for all its worth. Hey, it's not even the same as Madden, now that I think about it. With Madden, you know what you're getting. With the FF7 spin-offs, they were all different genres, prequels and sequels being released randomly.

I'm not one to judge but I dunno what the hell is going on with them. They know what fans want. They've done great tons of times before. And yet, they keep doing the same old dumb mistakes. FFXIII Versus? Come on, is it really being developed or is this the longest trolling in history? Just cancel the damn thing already. If it's not out after who knows how many years (Or even close to being finished. Or started!), just toss it away and move on. If that's the only excuse they have to hold KH3 from being produce, then I call bullshit on that.
I mean, at this rate, I'm starting to feel like they're gonna pull a Megaman Legends 3 on us.

I wanna keep my faith on them but it's nearly impossible by now.

 

[shrekfan246]

as they've managed to put Final Fantasy Versus XIII into development hell, holding Kingdom Hearts III hostage with it

Y'know, it's been seven years now... I think they should just drop Versus XIII. If that's all that's holding up development on KHIII, I don't see why they can't at least put it on hold and develop a game they can actually finish. Not like Versus XIII is going anywhere anyway.

Nomura has stated that he doesn't want to begin work on KH3 until they're finished with Versus XIII. Now, I don't know the specific ins-and-outs of why Versus has fallen into such deep development hell, but it really is the one SquareEnix-developed property currently "in development" that I've actually been interested in these past few years. All promotional material for it points to it really being a unique, new, and interesting direction, and honestly, after KH and KH2 I'm willing to give Nomura the benefit of the doubt up to a certain point.

But if it's never going to be completed, then I agree that it should probably just be scrapped because eventually it'll just have taken so long that it suffers from the Duke Nukem effect of being a stitched-together relic of its time that will never live up to the hype generated about it.

 

[ASan83]

I think I may just be done with SquareEnix. Final Fantasy XIII was the last straw. Yeah, the story was decent, and (some) characters were good, but it wasn't what the series had been up until that point. No towns, no airship, no freedom, no world to explore. Hell, you barely even fight in that game (Who the fuck thought auto-battle would be a good idea?). Against my better judgement, tried XIII-2, and it was no better. Before that, the series could do no wrong. Liked X-2, XII was alright (If only because Balthier is a badass. Fuck Vann, HE'S the main character, at least in my own deluded mind), LOVED Crisis Core, DoC was a 'meh', but I got through it. Those last two, though... *shudder*

Here's a hint: instead of spending your entire budget tarting the game up, how about actually making it so you can actually play it, and have it be an interactive movie? (Although, if they end up making another Dissidia, I'd forgive and forget. Love me some Dissidia).