You know they have a Seinen manga publication that is pretty much HBO: The Comic Book serial? They need to approach gaming with the same mindset as their manga publication if they want our respect back.Fox12 said:
Square Enix to return focus to JRPGs
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It is a sad state of affairs.Owyn_Merrilin said:Games with long tails, like good JRPGs, died out some time in the early 2000's. It's not totally surprising WeepingAngels isn't getting your pointremnant_phoenix said:
Naw, but seriously. The modern AAA industry seems to have totally forgotten the value of a game that still sells months, weeks, years after the initial release. It used to be that games got constant support and patches (at least on PC, where that was possible) for anywhere from months to years, with 1-2 years being about average. They'd stay on the shelves for a couple of years after that, unless they totally bombed. We now call those patches DLC and it costs at least as much as the initial game did to get it all, often more. Console games didn't usually get updates due to the technical realities of the time, but people continued to talk about and buy the successful ones for ages after release, it wasn't "buy day one or don't bother" like the publishers want us to think it is now. The really successful ones would get multiple print runs, and sometimes later printings of console games actually /did/ have updated game content, though it was more often to fix bugs and remove dummied out code left over from beta versions than to add new content.
Of course I understand why the publishers switched the model. Why put resources into making and supporting a decent product when you have an industry that won't give refunds? Just sell to as many rubes on day 1 as you can and laugh all the way to the bank, making millions on broken but cheaply made crap, and then not caring once the reviews start coming. Doesn't matter if you don't make another sale, you've already made your money and nobody's getting a refund, nor will they remember this the next time you pull it because your target audience has the attention span of a goldfish and the spine of an earthworm. I have less sympathy or understanding for gamers who fall for the tricks, and none at all who actually defend the industry for its business practices, of which what I just described is one of the least objectionable, as bad as it is. At least the industry is acting in its own best interests[footnote]Short term, anyway. Long term this isn't sustainable, or at least it wouldn't be in an industry with customers who had memories and spines.[/footnote]. The people who defend it are working against theirs.
When people look back to the late 1990's/early 2000's, they'll name games like Starcraft, Final Fantasy VII, and Half-Life as the "classics" that maintained a devoted following years and years after release.
When people look back to the late 2000's/early 2010's, what will they name? Minecraft is the only one that immeadiately comes to mind, and wouldn't you know it, Mojang has been doing exactly the sort of thing that you're talking about, continuously adding to the value of the game (without charging for it as DLC).
Lots of people complained about the linearity of FFX when it came out, myself included, and many people to this day, mark it as the beginning of Square's "downward spiral".Sack of Cheese said:
Thing is, now some of those people look back and tell themselves "X wasn't actually all that bad... compared to XIII".
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Final Fantasy is a great series to look back on because it's so long running, here's how I see it, although there are people who will judge it completely different (and that's awesome).
All games before VI: I was to young, the first few didn't even get localized (until much later). They're all the same to me.
VI: The pinnacle of perfection in comparison to all the FF games that came before it. VI was solid in all aspects, it knew what it was doing and it did it well.
VII: The first disc based FF, the first T rated FF, new "dark and gritty" direction compared to the games before it. First to embrace CGI. A landmark for it's time and a refreshing take on the franchise. This is why so many people love FF7 and why some people who play it for the first time these days "don't understand the hype" FF7 suffers from Seinfeld Is Unfunny [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny].
VIII: Okay guys... we know VII was great and all, we like the dark and gritty, we really do but... this is a little much, after all Seinfeld Is Unfunny [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny].
IX: Oh good, you listened to user feedback, excellent, you're even making fun of yourselves. This is great, it's so lighthearted and refreshing, but the game isn't a total parody either with some genuinely serious moments. Good game Square I love it.
X: Well this is what all those graphics have been building up to, it looks beautiful, but where is my overworld? Why do I have to listen to Titus monologue every five minutes? It feels like I'm just moving from point A to point B, otherwise okay story, cool characters.
X-2 and XI: What the hell is this? I'm declaring it noncannon and erasing it from my memory.
XII: Ah I see you listened to user feedback and I have something that's almost an overworld, great! The battle system is a little wonky, but nothing that's to upsetting. A new political storyline? I can get on board with that, the characters are also growing on me, everyone except the main character Vaan, he feels kind of like an afterthought (because he was).
XIII: It's pretty. Trying for an abstract storyline? Okay I can get on board with that, but it's a little hard to execute. Ummm... where are my cities? Where's my overworld, you're not even giving me the kind I got in XII. Took a new spin on the characters, okay, I appreciate your attempt at diversity. I really don't like these corridors... at least X gave me towns to break it up. Why are we going back to X anyway? I thought people didn't like that one.
XIII-2, XIII-3: I didn't like XIII, I don't need more of it.
XIV: See the section labeled X-2 and XI above.
XV: Hopefully they'll learn this time, but probably not.
As one who loves FFX but was severely disappointed by FFXIII, the reason I didn't complain about FFX was because it had a great battle system and a consistently engaging story. If FFXIII's battle system wasn't so closed-off for the first 15-20 hours of the game and the story had been consistently interesting without having to read the Datalog, the linearity would have been a non-issue. Because of my issues with the battle system and story, FFXIII's linearity merely exacerbated the problem of how unengaged I was in the bulk of the game; the linearity wasn't a problem in and of itself.Sack of Cheese said:
Then again, I am just one person. However, I have heard similar sentiments from other FFX fans who didn't like FFXIII, so I wouldn't be surprised if my view was common enough that it could explain the perceived lack of complaining.
I don't buy it for one second. Much announcement about nothing. Quit teasing, get the games out, we'll be the judge of them.
That same company called Bravely Default a success and I can't find any evidence that it sold more than 2 million.Eve Charm said:
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/03/31/bravely-defaults-success-west-making-square-enix-rethink-jrpgs/
No. Get out, and stay out. No one cares about your pornographic fetishes, and no one with an ounce of maturity cares for them. You can play those terrible games without a single bit of logic or quality writing talent to share between them all you want. REAL JRPG fans will be looking forward to more Dragon Quest games, or hopefully a sequel to Ni No Kuni or a return to Level 5's Dark Cloud series.gyrobot said:
You, get out, stay out, and never talk of such stupidity again. Never mind the fact that Dark JRPG's did everything that Witcher and the shitty sequel to a beloved Stealth Series that no one wanted did but better. The first Drakengard is miles superior to any half-assed 'drama' that the Witcher tried to pull off.
You think the dismissive attitude towards JRPGs was without reason? The reason why they are mercilessly slammed by reviews and by guys like Yahtzee? JRPGs did not realize that the current majority of gamers are the same people who watch Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Spartacus, Boardwalk Empire, we want morally flawed characters, not generic antiseptic heroes who we never could be like.
Like how Square decided to 'refocus' on Motomu Toriyama's waifu and nearly killed their flagship franchise? They haven't had a single good idea since Sakaguchi left. And if you think a single shot in the dark success is a sign of happier times, just remember that I'll be waiting to drink up your tears after Squenix shits the bed all over again.Shaun Kennedy said:
While the tone might be a bit harsh I think that this attitude that JRPGs need to be less like JRPGs is kind of pointless, I mean not all Japanese RPGs really fit the "JRPG Mold" (Look at Dark Souls for instance) but fans of JRPGs want JRPGs to be like the traditional kind we grew up playing.gyrobot said:
I want more Dragon Quest, I want more Chrono Trigger, I want more Final Fantasy, I want more of that cheeky trope-filled anime-esque mess that so many people "just don't get" and I'm not the only one, there is a sizeable audience in the Western Market for these kinds of JRPGs and this article is precisely about going BACK to that mindset of doing what they do best, which is NOT pandering to the base and making games that just don't hit off with ANY audience.
If Square Enix starts making JRPGs the way they did in the PS2 era then I think many fans will be happy!
I can't wait till FF20 to come out. People shall look back and remember how much of an underapppreciated gem FF13 was, haha.Eclipse Dragon said:
Oh good points! FFXIII takes a while to start, and even then I couldn't understand what they're saying, too many unnecessary terminologies. Although, I did enjoy FFXIII's battle system a lot, still dislike the fact that they capped us so we don't overlevel before getting into the "free-roam" field.remnant_phoenix said:
That, to me, was merely another symptom of the overall problem with the battle system: it's not until 20ish hours in that the game truly lets you use it.Sack of Cheese said:
When I made it to the first Barthandelus battle at the end of Chapter 9, I had to read his attack patterns, use lots of different Paradigms, shift between them quickly, and keep up a good battle pace because he busts out that Doom counter. It was intense. It was exicting. It was fun! And in that moment, I realized, "Oh, NOW I get it! THIS is what they were going for with this system. And it's excellent."
The sad part is that I don't remember encountering anything even similar to those kind of fights before that point. The whole game leading up to that point felt like a massive tutorial in comparison. You're stuck with a two-member party most of the time, the Sazh-Vanille dyad doesn't have Sentinel, the Lightning-Hope dyad doesn't have Sentinel OR Saboteur, and, as you pointed out, the game artificially limits your skill progression. With such severe restrictions, there's not a lot of variety or challenge involved. And add to the top of all that: most of the fights aren't even hard.
When the battle system is doing what it was designed to do in the later game, it's one of my favorite battle systems in the series. It just takes way too long to get there.
Full disclosure, I never finished XIII. That might cause some of my thoughts here to be uninformed, but it's a bad sign when the game get's to the point where I go "F*** it, I can't be bothered anymore".Sack of Cheese said:
Comparing the linearity of XIII to X doesn't seems right to me, for a couple of reasons.
First and foremost, X, while starting linearily, later branched out in the normal FF fashion, with optional dungeons, optional summons, sidequests for superweapons, and a staggering amount of Super-bosses (I played the PAL version).
XIII on the other hand, when it finally opened up, was just the one area, with the "Bounty Hunting" sidequest as the only worthwile thing to do (again, I might be wrong here).
Also, the linearity made a lot more sense to me in X than it did in XIII.
From a naturally linear intro, the main character is basically dragged along by the only people he knows, on a mission with a clear goal, which they are in a hurry to get to.
In XIII on the other hand, I never really got a clear view of what the ultimate goal was early on. While having a clear ultimate goal right form the get-go is by no means necessary, the narrative introduction of XIII would actually encourage non-linear, exploratory gameplay, at least to my mind.
Outside of the linearity issue, I feel that the games are just of completely different levels of quality.
The Combat and Level up systems in FFX feel really polished, and I still feel that the Sphere Grid or some iteraton of it should've been kept on for future games.
XIII on the other hand, had combat that at most times actively incentivized not doing anything, as the Auto command was generally the best bet on most fights, and anything else just felt needless. The Leveling system also, as far as I remember, was kind of bland, and felt like the characters became very homogenized if you put some effort into leveling up early (had the same problem with XII, where every character did everything because they had a ton of upgrade points, and nowhere to go in their "specialty")
Why do so many people attribute the success of Final Fantasy to this one man? Let's just forget for a second that his little movie venture lost Square boatloads of money (to the point that Enix almost didn't merge with Square because they thought Square might be a "failing" company), and was the direct result of his departure. I rarely hear someone say that their favorite Final Fantasy was a pre-FF6 Final Fantasy. If you fall into the camp of someone whose favorite Final Fantasy was FF6 or a later iteration, then why do you heap so much praise onto Sakaguchi? The last Final Fantasy Sakaguchi directed was Final Fantasy V. I'm willing to bet odds are Sakaguchi wasn't the one with ultimate creative control over your favorite Final Fantasy, and if not then you should praise the individuals who were (of which a few probably worked on final Fantasy post-FFX).Inazuma1 said:
IMO The golden era of Final Fantasy was not attributable to one person; it was the result of a JRPG dream team who were motivated to try and outdo themselves with each iteration.
EDIT: Sorry for initially quoting the wrong person
Final Fantasy II, IV, & VI are my favorites, and he co-wrote all three of them while directing II & IV. Sakaguchi's greatest strength is as a writer, and it's very apparent whenever you're playing a game he didn't write vs one he did write. For example, he didn't write VIII, the plot of which a lot of people shit on for being a convoluted mess, and returned to write IX, which people loved. He didn't write X, and was gone right after that year.alphamalet said:
Lost Odyssey proved Sakaguchi could still have good ideas and write a damn good story. Squenix has been in a hole they haven't been able to crawl out of while the Enix arm doesn't like to release their games here in the west. Lost Odyssey gave us Kaim Argonar, Seth Balmore, and Jansen Friedh. FFXIII and its sequels gave us an unlikable *****, an unlikable frat boy, and an unlikable sniveling little *****.
So stuff it.