Square Enix Wants FF XIII-2 To Address All the Problems With the Original

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Cyberdelic

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I spent one hour and twenty minutes playing the game for the first time today before turning it off. I will never turn it on again.

Never before have I encountered a more immature set of characters, boring dialogue and blatant rip off their most famous game in the franchise [FF7 - of which the first twenty minutes were a 'homage' to]. The music was . . . not appropriate to the mood being set. Lest not forget the offensively stereotyped racial characterisation of Sazh. And why is there a cult of ravers being persecuted for having mad hair? I bet communion is interesting - a tab and water instead of cracker and wine.
 

Vyress

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BrotherRool said:
Merlark said:
is it Irony that the reason for 13's failure is because they thought they listened to their fans criticism the first time?

It appears that Square is great at listening but not the best at implementing the idea's to solve the problem.

Square seems to think Sequels are for do-overs. Does it do a sequel for its popular well put together games? nope, does it stink? yes? SEQUEL!
I thought X was a fantastic game. Considering it set the record for fasting selling console game ever, has a metacritic score of 92, and won numerous best game of the year awards (including ranking 60 in best games of all time, according to IGN, 43 according to GameInformer and 12 according to GameFAQs. I feel some people agree with me

And since in 2009 (five years after release) it was ranked the 9th best selling RPG ever according to Guiness world records, you're (probably) wrong about the popular too
Funny how FF13 is actually the fastest selling game in the franchise while meanwhile - according to the bold statement above - FF10 is 'the fastest selling console game ever', huh? Paradox? :3

Anyway, I don't really get the backlash that FF13 gets. Was MGS4 linear? Yeah. Did they change the gameplay? Yeah. Were there many, long cutscenes? HELL yeah. Still, you see more people taking a stand for that game than for FF13. Is it because expectations were higher? Was it too different? I remember reading a WHOLE lot about people complaining how unoriginal FF has gotten, never trying something completely new. Here they did and guess what? They still complain. :3

People these days like bashing popular things to make themselves sound smart, calling things a flop or failure too easily - well, unless it's an FPS lol. But if you just take a look at the sales numbers. How is that a failure? Square recently announced they sold 6 million units by now and the game has been released less than 2 years ago. The oh-so-great FF10 has sold 8 million and has been out for over 10 years. And the complaining...

But where was I... Ah, right. Final Fantasy 13.
I for one loved it. It was the first FF since 9 that I liked. Awesome soundtrack, character interaction like never seen before in the series and an interesting Battle System. Sure, the Auto Attack part should have been left out but other than that I liked it - it was even challenging to a degree... I mean there were people who were actually saying the game was too hard for them; when did you ever hear that before? In a Final Fantasy game?! xD

I liked the cast a lot in this game unlike the one in FF10. Putting the silent characters aside you're left with Mr Sunshine-dream, Yuna, Rikku and Wakka. Yeah... I only liked Rikku and certainly not because she was a well developed character lol. In FF13 there were some scenes that were quite intense - Snow/Hope and Vanille/Sahz especially - which have never been seen before in a Final Fantasy game. The characters have complexity and each suffer their own dilemma which made them more interesting to me as you found out more about them during the journey which is why I didn't really mind the linearity of the game: I didn't want be sidetracked because I wanted to find out more about the characters. That's more than I can say for FF10 or FF8 where most of what I did was sidequests. Sure the plot wasn't the best in the world. But let's be honest here: was FF10's plot that good? Was FF8's? Yeah, didn't think so.

The Soundtrack in FF13 was among the best in the franchise together with FF9 and FF7. The pieces aren't forgettable like most other OST's these days and I couldn't care less that Uematsu didn't have anything to do with it. The battle theme is amazing, 'The Sunleth Waterscape' is simply beautiful and 'The Oath' and Lightning's theme are pieces of art to me.

To finally put an end to this huge lump of text already: I am really looking forward to Final Fantasy 13-2. I hope they don't ruin it trying too hard to fix some things that may not be broken in the first place which - to me anyway - would be the characters (apart from Fang who probably won't play a part in this anyway) and the music. What they definitely need to fix though is the villain part. He wasn't that great really. Same thing with DMC4. I don't get how some elderly man makes a good villain but whatever.
 

tetron

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Vyress said:
BrotherRool said:
Merlark said:
is it Irony that the reason for 13's failure is because they thought they listened to their fans criticism the first time?

It appears that Square is great at listening but not the best at implementing the idea's to solve the problem.

Square seems to think Sequels are for do-overs. Does it do a sequel for its popular well put together games? nope, does it stink? yes? SEQUEL!
I thought X was a fantastic game. Considering it set the record for fasting selling console game ever, has a metacritic score of 92, and won numerous best game of the year awards (including ranking 60 in best games of all time, according to IGN, 43 according to GameInformer and 12 according to GameFAQs. I feel some people agree with me

And since in 2009 (five years after release) it was ranked the 9th best selling RPG ever according to Guiness world records, you're (probably) wrong about the popular too
Funny how FF13 is actually the fastest selling game in the franchise while meanwhile - according to the bold statement above - FF10 is 'the fastest selling console game ever', huh? Paradox? :3

Anyway, I don't really get the backlash that FF13 gets. Was MGS4 linear? Yeah. Did they change the gameplay? Yeah. Were there many, long cutscenes? HELL yeah. Still, you see more people taking a stand for that game than for FF13. Is it because expectations were higher? Was it too different? I remember reading a WHOLE lot about people complaining how unoriginal FF has gotten, never trying something completely new. Here they did and guess what? They still complain. :3

People these days like bashing popular things to make themselves sound smart, calling things a flop or failure too easily - well, unless it's an FPS lol. But if you just take a look at the sales numbers. How is that a failure? Square recently announced they sold 6 million units by now and the game has been released less than 2 years ago. The oh-so-great FF10 has sold 8 million and has been out for over 10 years. And the complaining...

But where was I... Ah, right. Final Fantasy 13.
I for one loved it. It was the first FF since 9 that I liked. Awesome soundtrack, character interaction like never seen before in the series and an interesting Battle System. Sure, the Auto Attack part should have been left out but other than that I liked it - it was even challenging to a degree... I mean there were people who were actually saying the game was too hard for them; when did you ever hear that before? In a Final Fantasy game?! xD

I liked the cast a lot in this game unlike the one in FF10. Putting the silent characters aside you're left with Mr Sunshine-dream, Yuna, Rikku and Wakka. Yeah... I only liked Rikku and certainly not because she was a well developed character lol. In FF13 there were some scenes that were quite intense - Snow/Hope and Vanille/Sahz especially - which have never been seen before in a Final Fantasy game. The characters have complexity and each suffer their own dilemma which made them more interesting to me as you found out more about them during the journey which is why I didn't really mind the linearity of the game: I didn't want be sidetracked because I wanted to find out more about the characters. That's more than I can say for FF10 or FF8 where most of what I did was sidequests. Sure the plot wasn't the best in the world. But let's be honest here: was FF10's plot that good? Was FF8's? Yeah, didn't think so.

The Soundtrack in FF13 was among the best in the franchise together with FF9 and FF7. The pieces aren't forgettable like most other OST's these days and I couldn't care less that Uematsu didn't have anything to do with it. The battle theme is amazing, 'The Sunleth Waterscape' is simply beautiful and 'The Oath' and Lightning's theme are pieces of art to me.

To finally put an end to this huge lump of text already: I am really looking forward to Final Fantasy 13-2. I hope they don't ruin it trying too hard to fix some things that may not be broken in the first place which - to me anyway - would be the characters (apart from Fang who probably won't play a part in this anyway) and the music. What they definitely need to fix though is the villain part. He wasn't that great really. Same thing with DMC4. I don't get how some elderly man makes a good villain but whatever.
Total agreement, especially about the music.

Being able to control all the characters in battle is the only thing I would have changed about 13. Other than that, best FF since 4 imo. I wouldn't be against them turning 13-2 into a Star Ocean though.
 

theultimateend

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If they make this as good as FF12 I will sell my first bor...

Wait...what's that?

Oh that's illegal?

Nevermind. I'll find some way to afford itl
 

Grampy_bone

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FF13 had a lot of issues, but at no point did I ever find myself saying, "Damn I wish there was another one of those chocobo racing or butterfly-dodging minigames!"
 

Shirokurou

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"with much more of the exploration-based gameplay the series it known for."
And I always saw FF as pretty damn linear...
 

BrotherRool

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Vyress said:
BrotherRool said:
I thought X was a fantastic game. Considering it set the record for fasting selling console game ever, has a metacritic score of 92,
Funny how FF13 is actually the fastest selling game in the franchise while meanwhile - according to the bold statement above - FF10 is 'the fastest selling console game ever', huh? Paradox? :3
Simply resolved. It set the record. It didn't keep it, I guess quite a few games have held that record since. Ie The Empire State Building set the record for tallest building.

I wish killing your grandfather was solved so easily! :D

Otherwise I agree that the characters/development/character stories were easily the best in any FF so far. Really awesome stuff, my favourites being Snow/Hope, Lightning/Hope and Lightning/Snow
(My top three favourite characters are Lightning, Sazh, Hope though, Snow is cool but he was more of a catalyst for others.)

And the music was amazing. BUT there was far too little of it and the tracks needed to vary, too often one area would only have one soundtrack and you'd be in it for too long. The violin part of (the battle theme?) was probably even better than the FF theme music and To Zanarkand.

And I didn't mind the linearity as much as other people either, although I've already posted why I felt the linearity in X worked better and why it didn't quite work as well here.

EDIT: Also the fact is wrong "RPG game" is what I meant to write darn it.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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sure you have, Toriyama. It doesn't change the fact that you have always been, and will always be, a talentless, brown-nosing hack.
 

DexterNorgam

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XIII wasnt that bad.

I'm not saying it was perfect by any means, but I actually enjoyed it "eventually". I can think of several previous titles that were worse.

I do hope that this "listening to the fans" (usually a bad idea) doesnt result in an even worse game.

Fans are the worst.
 

orangeapples

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I just want developers to release a game the right time the first time.

Square Enix, you are the worst offender I know. I DO NOT want a Kingdom Hearts 3 Final Mix
 

Zelbio

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While it would be nice for them to address the problems that were had in the original...
I'll just wait a couple months for the price to drop before I try it.

My faith was shaken with FFXIII, and with another one coming being a direct sequel...well...
Fool me once...
 

Fightgarr

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The problem I found was more with that I hated all the characters. Making more Lightning happen is maybe the wrong way to fix that problem.
 

Lord_Jaroh

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HHammond said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
BrotherRool said:
Snipped again
Snipped for space...

Anyway, thanks for reading all the way through, sorry for the essay!
"Better", yes is a poor term and is subjective. The characters too me are definately not likable. It's all very vague, and I admit I didn't play enough of FFXIII to get a complete sense of the characters, but to be honest, I didn't want too. The game wasn't interesting enough to want to play more than a short time, characters or story-wise. The presentation to me seemed too...off. More like they were trying to "force" me to like it rather than it coming naturally, if that makes any sort of sense. It's that fine line of the puppet Star Wars characters in the Cantina feeling more "real" than the new CGIed ones in the modern Star Wars. I can't really explain it beyond that.

The cutscenes...well, that's a different story. You have a short bit of walking, then a cutscene. Another short bit of walking, then a cutscene. A short bit of something, a cutscene...etc, etc. It was too much. But Square has become a bit overly fond of its eye candy, I find, and I find it seems to just be trying to distract from the game itself, to keep you from noticing its flaws.

What you say about the script is very true. It is translated well, it is just very "Japanese" and doesn't translate well to Western sensabilities. They need Western people on their team to help with this, I think. The early games were better, as the translation was often "hidden" behind a reduced script, designed to fit within a tighter space. And yes, the voiced actors really detract from the characters overall. Without them you can put whatever voice you want to the characters. And if that doesn't fit what they've done, the experience seems worsened. Although, XII was superbly voice acted, so it seems to me they just aren't trying hard enough in some respects...

There's my own wall of text for you. :) I'll have to respond later to BrotherRool. It's time to go see me some Cowboys vs. Aliens...
 

Atmos Duality

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Rule 1: Limit boss battles to 10 minutes at the absolute most. No secret or end boss fights that take upwards of 30 minutes to complete just because of stacked stats.

If you're doing the same exact thing for 20 minutes, it isn't tense, it's just boring.
 

AetherWolf

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But this is Toriyama speaking here. That guy's the biggest asshole in Square Enix and I wonder why the hell he's still on board. And wasn't Kitase the guy who basically said that FFXIII was a movie in his eyes?

In any case, I'll give this game a chance, but I seriously doubt it'll be any better.
 

Lord_Jaroh

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BrotherRool said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
Snip You
With trusting my friends, I wasn't meaning that I was inferring their judgement = everyone's judgement, more that I don't care what the popular consensus is on any subject, I will trust my friends and my own judgement as to what we like/dislike rather than being "told" what is good/bad (thus not a false consensus). If for some reason we found Big Rigs to be a great game...it would only of course be a great game for us. It doesn't really matter what other publications viewed it as; it means we enjoyed the game (of course that isn't true. Big Rigs is terrible, any way you look at it, but could be interesting in a morbid "hopefully this will never happen again" kind of way...)

And I will reiterate, just because something is seen as popular and good by major publications doesn't make it so, nor does it appeal to everyone. Some may be swayed by advertising/pressure/poor judgement in order to make a list more appealing to the mass market. Others may indeed find it a good game. I just don't like FFX myself. I'm not trying to "prove" that it is a poorer game, just poorer according to my own likes and opinions. I can present evidence of why I didn't like it (from the unlikable characters, to the Blitzball mini-game to the linearity of the story, to the number and frequency of cutscenes to the terrible ending vs Daddy-dearest, etc). But that is all it is: evidence of why I didn't like the game, compared with games of a previous generation. Walmart makes a crap-ton of money and employs more people than a small country. It doesn't mean that it is the best or even a good place to work...

As far as FFIX, I can't say too much. I really didn't like the character designs, nor the characters themselves at all to like the game. The gameplay seemed well done, but I couldn't get into the story because of the characters. There was nothing redeeming about any of them beyond the main hero character.

Here's a quick rundown of the series:

FFI - Loved the game, since it was the first RPG I ever played. I've played it to death in many forms, and I still have my original NES cartridge. This one is rose colored through my lenses, but it is still a game I play to this day.
FFII - Haven't played it yet. Have it for PSP, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
FFIII - Haven't played. I have for the DS. I'll give it a try eventually. I was wishing that it was redone on the PSP in the sprite form of the other 2 games, rather than the 3D of the DS.
FFIV - Loved the game, ever since first playing it as FFII on the SNES, I've loved the story of this game, and the amazing graphics/music over top of the original.
FFV - Haven't really played. I have it for PS1, but haven't played it yet beyond a couple of hours.
FFVI - Great game. I loved the graphics, but I didn't find the story as good as IV. I do love the characters though.
FFVII - Hated it. From the story to the characters to the design. The only redeeming value I found was some of the music. Hated the mini-games that they added in. Hated the "feel" of the game, set in the "futuristic-fantasy" that it was. I have no desire to replay this one.
FFVIII - A resounding Meh. The graphics were all pretty, yes, but the story was lacking, and the cutscenes (including the unskippable summons...ugh) were really starting to take the forefront over the gameplay itself here.
FFIX - As I said, I couldn't get into it over the characters. The style was a nice step up from the previous couple, but the characters would not let me get drawn into the story, they were that unlikable.
FFX - As I said, it took the cutscenes in VIII and made them longer. As well, the linearity of the game scared me, especially with the mini-map in the corner pointing out where to go...and reinforcing the simple aspects of most of the maps. I was "playing" a book, and I didn't like the lack of choice and exploration that they presented. There are many other things I dislike, but I won't expand on them here.
FFXII - Loved it. Was a great step above the last few. From the open world, to the more well-designed characters. It had some faults, like some of the gambit system and the license board to name a couple, but overall, it was a well designed game.
FFXIII - Hated it. Far to linear, and the characters again looked and acted terrible. The battle system was a change for the worse, and the story was very poorly presented. And the custcenes were taken to a whole new level.

As a side thing FF Tactics - one of the greatest of the series. Great story, great characters, and a very fun game to play. I wish we got a true sequel to this game (and not the poorly done Gameboy ones).

Square should stick with sprites. They would concentrate more on the gameplay and less on the flashy show. But again, that's just my thoughts on the series as a whole. Maybe they could remake all of VII to XIII in sprite form and improve them all, taking out the lavish cutscenes and putting in likable characters and great story and a world that makes you want to care about it.