SSB Melee to SSB Brawl. Why the drop in quality?

[Rad Party God]

Well, in the end it won't matter wich is better if you're only interested on playing Corneria (Sector Z in the original SSB) without items.

I know a couple of people who does.

 

[Sean951]

Nintendo really need to stop milking their old franchises and make something decent, like a console that has more in common with the XBOX360/PS3.

Just because I feel the need to comment on this (sorry for the derailment,) why would you want another 360/PS3? You'll just end up with the same games on 75%+ of the releases. Nintendo did something to switch things up, and realized that while the 360/PS3 was appealing to a very select demographic, the Wii went to appeal to everyone. The graphics may not be as good, and there certainly is a lot of crappy games for it, but if it was just another PS3/360, all you'd be doing is making everything exactly the same, and the video game industry would become even more stagnant then it already has become in the past few years.

What they did obviously worked also, as the other 2 consoles spent millions of dollars, and tons of time adding the feature to their consoles, and I think you'll find the next generation of consoles all to have motion controls of some sort built right in. Nintendo did what it does best here, it redefined the entire genre, and brought us something that no one expected. Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's certainly an impressive feat, and you have to be able to respect that, or you probably simply don't care about innovation in games.

No, I don't support the Wii because I care about actual innovation.

Here are what I think are the three biggest (and most importantly lasting) innovations of this generation:

1.) Wireless controllers
2.) Proper online play and matchmaking
3.) High Definition

Nintendo went for a gimmick, and it's not going to last, the Wii has already begun to rapidly slow in terms of consoles sold, they weren't looking at the long run, just the quick payout.

If anyone's innovated this generation it's Microsoft, they came out first, they have the best matchmaking to date and Kinect is amazing (not as a game peripheral grant you, it sucks for 360 games, but the applications for PC and robots are staggering)

Meanwhile the Wii is stuck with standard definition graphics, fucking friend codes, and a number of useless peripherals they've pushed out the door that 3rd party developers aren't even bothering to learn how to code for because they know they'll go out of style in a month.

The Wii is not innovation, it was a magic trick, it was "Hey look at this! Looks cool right!? $250!" Then after a month you realize the joy of waving the piece of plastic wears off, and you're just left with a console that has very primitive hardware and nonexistant 3rd party support.

If Nintendo wants to try something like the Wii remote that's fine, but I have two expectations for when they try a gimmick like this:

1.) Don't compromise everything else (such as no HD, no proper online system, ect.)
2.) Don't make it mandatory

That is all I ask.

Nintendo had the first "first party" wireless controller on the Game Cube, for the record.

The Wii also decided to not got for HD graphics because they were expensive and the TVs that made the difference were even more so. Instead, they made a cheap console with a new quirk that, when use correctly, made some very fun games. The lack of a decent online does hurt, but when your "gimmick" has been ported to the other 2 systems, I think you did quite well.

 

[j0frenzy]

I personally prefer Brawl and hated Melee. I do love the people who complain about the balance being thrown out the window, because I sort of felt that was the original point and it never really felt like Melee was all that balance either. I personally really like the random quirkiness that comes from all the items on high frequency, smash balls and random stages. It might be frustrating if I put the time into the game to learn all the little tricks that tourney players use, but I always felt that if I really wanted to do that, there are better fighting games out there. I play Brawl so that Solid Snake can throw a pokeball at Mario and blow up Sonic.

 

[GiantRaven]

Hmm, never thought of it that way, but they could do more than just squeezing Mario and Zelda for more games that add bugger all to gaming and annoy people like me.

The add bugger all except...you know...fun games for people to play.

Not every game needs to change the world.

 

[Innegativeion]

"Drop in quality"?

Personally, I would say equal quality with a slightly different pacing, less clones, better balancing (items like smash balls notwithstanding), new (more) characters, new stages, a stage builder, and new game modes.

But that's just me.

edit: also kirby didn't suck in brawl, which made me a happy camper.

 

[Therumancer]

I think it's the same problem as other game series, it's being dumbed down for the lowest human denominator, made prettier, but having the complexity stripped away to make it more approachable so nearly anyone can play it. A larger audience trumping making a good game, because why make a good profit, when you can make a monster profit.

It's not a unique phenomena here, you see it everywhere... and whenever it comes up you'll have the same basic arguement with defending fanboys, and people who like having a game they can now play, against those who don't like the direction things went it. It then of course turns to money usually, and the question of when the industry is going too far, or even if that's possible. Along with talk about what is good for gaming as a medium. No matter what side your on it winds up going nowhere.

Play enough games, or just pay attention, you'll see this same basic question/conversation countless times nowadays.

 

[JWRosser]

I think my problem with Brawl is that I built it up way too much. I mean, here in the UK it was delayed about three times over nearly a year. I bought a Wii deliberately for the game, but then it wasn't released for another 6 months. I would check to website daily to see what the newest updates were....then when it came out, it just didn't meet my awesomely fantastic expectations. Don't get me wrong - it's still a great game...but I don't know, I think it's just lacking something.

What probably didn't help was all the fake videos posting fake, gigantic rosters that fuelled my excitement even more...

 

[Laxman9292]

Nintendo really need to stop milking their old franchises and make something decent, like a console that has more in common with the XBOX360/PS3.

Because those consoles are stomping out completely new ground, unlike the Wii.... that slacker. Not like it started a trend that was blatantly ripped from it by the two consoles you mentioned... Shitty trend granted but they did do something new.

Ever company has something they milk, Xbox=Gears and Halo, PS3=God of War and Killzone. Just a few examples.

Oh and the DS and 3DS. So shut up.

 

[Innegativeion]

My main problem with brawl actually stems from the wii's sub-par internet compatibility. The online portion of the game had the potential to be great but in actuality had the depth of cardboard.

Here's hoping the next SSB on Nintendo's HD system (I mean come on, Nintendo would never abandon a cash cow like SSB, with or without sakurai) has better online gaming.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I think ____ had far too many cheese moves compared to ____ . Also, ____ Is much too casual, which is why I prefer to play ____ . And honestly, ____ is such an imba character in ____ that there is really no reason to play any other character. I'll just stick with my good old fashioned ____ thankyou very much.

Insert the name of any fighting game information above and it's sequels, prequels, etc.

 

[eternal-chaplain]

Though the characters were well balanced as always with a quazi-interesting move set for some, the story was written like a 17 year old's slash fic: So we'll have SNAKE get on board METAKNIGHT's ship and have MR.GAMENWATCH attack them and meanwhile we'll have SAMUS rescue PIKACHU. It was just a bit oo unbelievable and the story gameplay itself wasn't very compelling either.

 

[Innegativeion]

Nintendo really need to stop milking their old franchises and make something decent, like a console that has more in common with the XBOX360/PS3.

Like the one they're announcing in like 2 months?

 

[Sean951]

I think it's the same problem as other game series, it's being dumbed down for the lowest human denominator, made prettier, but having the complexity stripped away to make it more approachable so nearly anyone can play it. A larger audience trumping making a good game, because why make a good profit, when you can make a monster profit.

It's not a unique phenomena here, you see it everywhere... and whenever it comes up you'll have the same basic arguement with defending fanboys, and people who like having a game they can now play, against those who don't like the direction things went it. It then of course turns to money usually, and the question of when the industry is going too far, or even if that's possible. Along with talk about what is good for gaming as a medium. No matter what side your on it winds up going nowhere.

Play enough games, or just pay attention, you'll see this same basic question/conversation countless times nowadays.

Yes, because Brawl was meant to be such a complex game. I wouldn't say games as a whole are getting easier, I would say that developers have learned to make levels that don't unintentionally impede your progress through giving you bad camera angles and what not.

 

[Innegativeion]

Though the characters were well balanced as always with a quazi-interesting move set for some, the story was written like a 17 year old's slash fic: So we'll have SNAKE get on board METAKNIGHT's ship and have MR.GAMENWATCH attack them and meanwhile we'll have SAMUS rescue PIKACHU. It was just a bit oo unbelievable and the story gameplay itself wasn't very compelling either.

Yeah, the "fling off stage to die" mechanic doesn't work very well for the kind of adventure game they tried to make. Story wasn't that bad, but I didn't like that they tried to make SSB it's own continuity, instead of just having it be a tournament between characters in their own continuity.

 

[natster43]

The reason for the drop in quality was that they wanted to make it more accessible. And they said that they will keep making the games more accessible instead of making it of better quality for competitiveness and balance.

 

[PureChaos]

there are a few changes for the worse, like replacing Mewtwo with Lucario, but overall Brawl is much better than Melee

 

[ZeroMachine]

In terms of production values and sheer amount of content, Brawl is better.

In terms of gameplay, Melee is better. I can come up with a list of reasons why Melee is better at the core, and all I ever get is people calling me a troll, so I won't. But yes OP, Melee is better, and that's not just the nostalgia filter talking.

Then now we have two people saying that Melee is better but won't give any reasoning for it, which just ultimately looks worse than if you decided to actually put some reasons down.

OT: I liked Brawl better. I liked the addition of more characters, and some of the most fun I've ever had playing characters has been in Brawl, and despite most of the online competition being either Pit or Meta-Knight, as opposed to Falco and Marth, I find it a lot of fun to play with friends.

Spoiler: Fine, have fun disagreeing with me, I know you will.

-Final Smashes are horridly overpowered
-Almost all Pokemon in Brawl are duds, rendering the item useless
-Many items are either OHKO or useless
-Meta Knight, Pit and Ike can be and are used cheaply (yes, they are)
-Every stage except 3 or so randomly kill players unfairly (it happens more than it should)
-A great deal of the new characters were clones, more so than Melee
-They took out Mewtwo
-Tripping is completely unnecessary, and opens people to attack at critical moments at the competitive level
-The gameplay was much slower-paced in general, which detracted from the intensity
-The gameplay was tighter and more refined in Melee (admittedly, that's debatable)
-Many of the fun-to-play characters from Melee were nerfed (Fox, Ganondorf, etc.)
-Playing free-for-all against CPUs in Brawl, they all go for you and only you (not so in Melee)
-Chain-grabbing is more prominent and accessible in Brawl

That's a few examples of why Brawl is less fun to play, Melee has none of these problems.

This is gonna sound really weird... I agree with every point you made except for the fact that most new characters are clones, it being slower paced, and Melee being more refined (which you already said was debatable). You made LOADS of good points. Buuuut I still like Brawl more to each their own!

Nintendo really need to stop milking their old franchises and make something decent, like a console that has more in common with the XBOX360/PS3.

Look, someone pointlessly insulting Nintendo! What's new... -_-'

 

[fundayz]

The only thing that there was less of in Brawl was the metagame. It was better in every other aspect.

 

[FaceFaceFace]

I wouldn't say either is better, just different. Brawl had more characters (which is always good) and was slightly more balanced. It also, however, increased the role chance plays in a match, with more overpowered items, items that have a random chance to harm you rather than help you when you grab them (the little timer thing), levels with way too many random things going on compared to the one or two on Melee levels, and prat-falling, where you randomly fall down when starting to run. The final smashes, while a cool idea, completely undo the better balancing that I mentioned above. The increased aerial focus and other similar changes fall under "just different" rather than better or worse. I have a huge list of ideas for the ultimate Super Smash Bros. game combining the best of both Melee and Brawl, specifically on fixing final smashes and spamming of moves, but that's a little off topic.

 

[Cpt Corallis]

I really loved melee, but the awesomely random stages of brawl win me over.
Also, How do you not love the hell out of this video!: [youtube=CaAKKfZVSWw&feature=PlayList&p=A7BBC8B0F76CBC47&index=90
Screw continuity, or sense. That video is properly awesome!