SSB Melee to SSB Brawl. Why the drop in quality?

[Ympulse]

Basically, if you don't know or care what a wavedash is and have never thought of removing items from the match, chances are you will prefer Brawl, the other way around, Melee.

Pretty much this. Having played both a decent amount, Brawl is infinitely more fun and accessible to the standard player who just sees it as a party game to have a good time with their mates.

Melee, on the other hand, is kind of like trying to play a game of Starcraft in Korea. You either know all of the advanced techniques and can pull them off effortlessly, or you eat gravel sandwiches all day.

 

[rythter]

brawl just seemed shorter, melee had so much content it was just so special, with brawl it just lacked that awe inspiring amount of content
if anyone says twss i will get kinda pissed

 

[Daffy F]

I was playing Melee the other day with my roommate who was not very familiar with the series. We were playing on my Wii (I sold my Gamecube since Wii is fully backwards compatible) and he asked if they made a sequel. I told him they did, but found myself making a bunch of excuses to keep us playing Melee.

Later on I wondered to myself why I did that. I mean, I bought Brawl on launch day and played the shit out of it. I had some genuinely good times with it, too. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized Brawl is a much worse game than Melee. Worse than the original, too.

So my question to you, fellow Escapists, is do you agree? And if so, why do you think that is?

They got rid of ROY! I loved that guy :'(
No overpowered super-moves I suppose... Plus I find Melee to be at least as good in terms of th eamount of fun. So I suppose it's personal choice.

 

[Therumancer]

I think it's the same problem as other game series, it's being dumbed down for the lowest human denominator, made prettier, but having the complexity stripped away to make it more approachable so nearly anyone can play it. A larger audience trumping making a good game, because why make a good profit, when you can make a monster profit.

It's not a unique phenomena here, you see it everywhere... and whenever it comes up you'll have the same basic arguement with defending fanboys, and people who like having a game they can now play, against those who don't like the direction things went it. It then of course turns to money usually, and the question of when the industry is going too far, or even if that's possible. Along with talk about what is good for gaming as a medium. No matter what side your on it winds up going nowhere.

Play enough games, or just pay attention, you'll see this same basic question/conversation countless times nowadays.

Yes, because Brawl was meant to be such a complex game. I wouldn't say games as a whole are getting easier, I would say that developers have learned to make levels that don't unintentionally impede your progress through giving you bad camera angles and what not.

Well, camera angles are a mixed bag criticism wise. Honestly I think the best suvival horror games out there were successful in part because of the way they used the camera angles, and intentionally set certain sequences so they weren't optimum.

That said, when it comes to the SSB series, I think a lot of it comes down to the new game being a lot slower than previous ones, allowing for more time for reactions and inputs.

One of the things that made the series was that despite it's apperance and character choices was that it was a surprisingly deep combat game, and I think as time has gone on it's become substnatially simpler.

That said I'm not a fan and haven't tinkered with it much. I'm hardly the guy to argue with about the specifics of SSB. I was just saying that this is exactly the same conversation that is taking place with an increasing number of game franchises. It's not an isolated "issue" or area of discussion unique to this paticular game series.

 

[Chelsea O'shea]

Mewtwo himself is quality.

Without Mewtwo, there is less quality.

i need a like button for this reply.

 

[Dellusions]

Hmm, never thought of it that way, but they could do more than just squeezing Mario and Zelda for more games that add bugger all to gaming and annoy people like me.

But you can just skip those games that bother you, because they really aren't marketed for you. Also, I feel that the Wii brought a lot more then just Zelda and Mario to the table in these past few years, even including recycled main games:

Metroid Prime 3
Okami (I know it's a remake, but better suited for Wii then other consoles.)
Wii Fit (Revolutionary, regardless of if it's for you or not.)
Trauma center (several of these, all great.)
No More Heroes
Punch-out!!!
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

Just to name a few. Not to mention that there were many many Mario games, and especially Paper Mario, Mario Kart, and both Mario Galaxies were all fantastic, and coming from an avid Zelda fan, Twilight Princess was top notch for sure, especially when compared to everything that came out since the Ocarina of Time (MM, WW, and all the spin-offs in the middle.)

I'm not trying to say that Nintendo put out games "better" then PS3 or 360, simply stating that even just those few titles, just for the Wii (I can name 100 really good DS titles, including many great niche titles, especially from Atlus and Nippon Ichi Software (NIS) added a lot of flavor to the video game world in the past 3-4 years.

 

[randomsix]

I would have preferred that they did not change the mechanics between melee and brawl. Whenever I play brawl, something is just off. The combat isn't as satisfying somehow. Everything is too floaty, the characters and their threatzones seem too small, and some of the attacks and their effects just don't jive with me.

 

[SuperRobot64]

Later on I wondered to myself why I did that. I mean, I bought Brawl on launch day and played the shit out of it. I had some genuinely good times with it, too. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized Brawl is a much worse game than Melee. Worse than the original, too.

Hmm... I don't remember hearing a reason for why you like Melee better...
But seriously, why do people keep saying Melee is better than Brawl? It's like getting 10 dollars and saying: "no thanks I want 5 dollars instead It's much better".
Brawl is the same with double the content.

 

[JoJo]

I prefer Brawl personally, I never could really get into Melee and I feel that Brawl has much more content; characters, stages, is more accessible, better graphics and the final smashs always bring in an extra varible factor.

 

[Rooster893]

Nintendo really need to stop milking their old franchises and make something decent, like a console that has more in common with the XBOX360/PS3.

Way to be on topic....

 

[Heart of Darkness]

That's weird. I thought the cleaner presentation, more fluid animations, more interesting stage mechanics, and a much more interesting single-player mode was actually a rise in quality. I loved Melee just as much as I love Brawl, but it's hard for me to go back to Melee--everything just seems a lot less...clean, now. The only complaint that I think holds some merit is that Brawl's a worse tourney game, but whatever. I don't compete enough for that to actually matter to me.

...if you use a Gamecube controller (which is the only correct way to play Brawl).

Am I the only weird person who actually prefers using the Wiimote/Nunchuk to play Brawl as opposed to the GC controller? (It is, however, oddly satisfying to beat someone who's using the GC controller with the Wiimote/Nunchuk.)

 

[Hatchet90]

Melee was perfect. And in no way could Brawl ever reach that perfection. The jumps were too floaty, the actions were too fast, and the camera did what it wanted. Melee had the perfect speed, the perfect amount of characters and extras, the best weapons, and the best multiplayer. Anyone who says differently is a Nintendo fanboy.

 

[demoman_chaos]

I prefer Brawl myself. Melee is awesome, but Brawl just feels better. Brawl is noobified, I admit. The edge grab range is ridiculous, but you don't curse something when it works out in your favor (you only curse it when it works against you, which is when you notice it most).
The stages in Brawl have too many hazards, like the F-Zero stage which doesn't warn you of oncoming cars which are quite a lot stronger than they used to be. I seriously have at least half of the stages taken off the random stage switch. Some have too powerful hazards, ridiculous scrolling, and some like the Mario Bros and Donkey Kong retro stages are completely unplayable.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

Brawl slowed the whole game down and made it more floaty.
There were obviously loads of other micro changes made that altered the balance of the game.
The result was that it was easier to pick up, but cut out alot of the depth from the game.
Personally, I missed the lighting fast Melee gameplay, but I know most of my friends liked the change...and...well, its a big silly idea anyway, so if any game is gonna dumb down, I think SSB is the one to do it.

It was a better party game for it, but lost it's competitive edge.

The slower paced might have made it easier to play, but I don't think it lost the competitive edge, just the focus changed.

Melee was fast and openings for counter attacks were quite short. The problem with the short windows however is you can afford mistakes as your opponent is likely to miss them. I noticed on release day that you can't make as many mistakes in Brawl as any experienced player is already setting up to destroy you. It came less about keeping up and more about how far you were thinking ahead. That is just from my experience anyway.

 

[AMMO Kid]

The main reason I didn't like brawl as much was because they took out so many characters. I mean, why not just add characters rather than taking them away? It's just personal preference then I suppose...

 

[Imat]

I honestly think Brawl is better than Melee. If you turn off the smash balls and the ship o' doom, it is Melee with a few added characters. Heck, you can recreate Melee fairly easily given the ability to choose stage and characters. So I'm not sure how Brawl can be anything but any improvement.

 

[Proteus214]

To me it felt like Brawl was just Melee, but more bloated. With Melee, they added all of the right bells and whistles that I felt Smash Brothers needed: the adventure mode, trophy system, a good amount of characters, plenty of unlockables, and fun play modes such as the home run derby. And that was fantastic. Brawl basically took all of that and just tacked on more to each of those things: more characters, more arenas, more items, more unlockables, longer story mode. To me, it didn't feel like they improved much, but just inflated all the stuff they added to Melee.

Also Metaknight can go die in a fire.

 

[Akkml]

Personally I feel as though melee was a bit less chaotic yet more fast paced and you had near exact control over your character pretty much 24/7, while with brawl there are less copy cat characters and the animations are less jerky, but I still miss Mew two and Roy. I guess it just falls down to personal preference, melee for the more serious types, and brawl for the more casual types (not meaning casual as an insult to anyone who may take it that way).

 

[pspman45]

the stupid... motion... controls...

 

[Flying6LeggedWhale]

It's a steady pace. Melee wasn't as good as the original, Brawl isn't as good as Melee. It's just how the series will continue to go.