SSB Melee to SSB Brawl. Why the drop in quality?

[Zenn3k]

I enjoyed Melee a lot more. Brawl had far too many broken mechanics, you basically HAD to turn off the "Smash Ball" for the game to even be REMOTELY fair, ever.

The pokeballs in Brawl were worse, some of my best melee memories involve having only pokeballs on at a high drop rate, those are crazy games. Do this in Brawl and it just sucks. They also ruined my favorite character to fight with, Peach.

 

[Danpascooch]

Nintendo really need to stop milking their old franchises and make something decent, like a console that has more in common with the XBOX360/PS3.

Just because I feel the need to comment on this (sorry for the derailment,) why would you want another 360/PS3? You'll just end up with the same games on 75%+ of the releases. Nintendo did something to switch things up, and realized that while the 360/PS3 was appealing to a very select demographic, the Wii went to appeal to everyone. The graphics may not be as good, and there certainly is a lot of crappy games for it, but if it was just another PS3/360, all you'd be doing is making everything exactly the same, and the video game industry would become even more stagnant then it already has become in the past few years.

What they did obviously worked also, as the other 2 consoles spent millions of dollars, and tons of time adding the feature to their consoles, and I think you'll find the next generation of consoles all to have motion controls of some sort built right in. Nintendo did what it does best here, it redefined the entire genre, and brought us something that no one expected. Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's certainly an impressive feat, and you have to be able to respect that, or you probably simply don't care about innovation in games.

No, I don't support the Wii because I care about actual innovation.

Here are what I think are the three biggest (and most importantly lasting) innovations of this generation:

1.) Wireless controllers
2.) Proper online play and matchmaking
3.) High Definition

Nintendo went for a gimmick, and it's not going to last, the Wii has already begun to rapidly slow in terms of consoles sold, they weren't looking at the long run, just the quick payout.

If anyone's innovated this generation it's Microsoft, they came out first, they have the best matchmaking to date and Kinect is amazing (not as a game peripheral grant you, it sucks for 360 games, but the applications for PC and robots are staggering)

Meanwhile the Wii is stuck with standard definition graphics, fucking friend codes, and a number of useless peripherals they've pushed out the door that 3rd party developers aren't even bothering to learn how to code for because they know they'll go out of style in a month.

The Wii is not innovation, it was a magic trick, it was "Hey look at this! Looks cool right!? $250!" Then after a month you realize the joy of waving the piece of plastic wears off, and you're just left with a console that has very primitive hardware and nonexistant 3rd party support.

If Nintendo wants to try something like the Wii remote that's fine, but I have two expectations for when they try a gimmick like this:

1.) Don't compromise everything else (such as no HD, no proper online system, ect.)
2.) Don't make it mandatory

That is all I ask.

Nintendo had the first "first party" wireless controller on the Game Cube, for the record.

The Wii also decided to not got for HD graphics because they were expensive and the TVs that made the difference were even more so. Instead, they made a cheap console with a new quirk that, when use correctly, made some very fun games. The lack of a decent online does hurt, but when your "gimmick" has been ported to the other 2 systems, I think you did quite well.

The Playstation Move totally copied the Wii, but the Kinect really didn't. Yeah it copied it in the sense that it was trying to appeal to the same audience, but that's not really copying the device at all.

Forgoing HD was idiotic, the 360 can toggle between the two, why not the Wii? Surely that would have solved the problem of the expensive TVs, it wasn't a problem when the 360 came out, and that was well before the Wii.

The wavebird was a great and important innovation, and I respect Nintendo for that, I actually really liked the Gamecube because it had great games to play, and in my opinion the best controller of its generation. (I'm also a fan of the DS, but not the 3DS because of its low battery life and LACK OF ANY FUCKING GAMES SO FAR)

All I'm saying is the Wii was a serious misstep, and it's going to really hurt Nintendo in the long term, it wasn't innovative, innovation is something new that tangibly improves a console, this was different just for different's sake, the motion control doesn't improve a console when it's mandatory, they went for a flashy quick payout but made the biggest mistake a company can make with the Wii.

They alienated their core fan base.

 

[VGC USpartan VS]

I always liked Melee more than Brawl. I have a list of reasons too.

1. Tripping
2. Jumps are more awkward
3. Removed Roy (back in the day me and my best friend were a tag team, I was Marth, he was Roy, it was awesome.)
4. Mewtwo Removed (Lucario is great and all, but he just isn't Mewtwo.)
5. That racing minigame
6. Subspace Emissary is good and all but I was dissapointed.

All in all I just think I had set my hopes too high for Brawl... but then again, the game did take 8 years to make.

 

[Verlander]

They concentrated too much on the crappy platforming bits (I love platformers, but SSB's platforming sections are terrible), and had too many items

 

[GlenTheFox]

Brawl isn't necessarily worse than Melee. There are certain aspects that Melee had that Brawl really doesn't in terms of gameplay modes and challenges, and Brawl was made considerably more easy than Melee was, but Brawl still has it's perks. Though they could've mixed up the music selection more rather than reusing the opening theme as much as they did...

 

[Verlander]

It's a steady pace. Melee wasn't as good as the original, Brawl isn't as good as Melee. It's just how the series will continue to go.

I disagree, I thought Melee was much better than the original

 

[Erana]

The damn camera was always either too close or too far away.

 

[BaconPunch]

Brawl works better with controls but my reckoning is they started to treat as more of a fan-game rather than fun. For e.g. the smash ball, all characters have their own smash based on their game but they're in no way equal (fandom for fun). By which I mean Ness or Lucas can get the smash ball from across the entire stage then kill everybody else with it in seconds, whereas Mario could be jumpin around for hours just trying to reach it, then when he does get it it's bloody useless. But as long as it's similar to their original game it's fine, right?
And then of course there's the Time-Waste Emissary to get most characters rather than actual achievments. Which is basically random Nintendians jumping about and making silly noises and occasionally running into each other in something which was meant to be a story, I think.

 

[timeadept]

I never had a problem with brawl, some of the characters have been rebalanced, some good ones removed (Mew Two was really fun to play but i haven't touched lucario who was apparently meant to "replace" him). Random tripping that you can't turn off is the stupidest thing they did in a game that is otherwise a step forward (baring everything mentioned before this point). I really liked the expanded adventure mode and other single player modes, I tend to play the game a lot by my self and had great fun trying to beat the hardest difficulties. But that's almost a non-argument in a game about the multiplayer.

So i guess over all they're both on the same level, and i have no problem playing one over the other. I just prefer brawl due to the expanded character roster and more stages.

 

[Chibz]

If Nintendo wants to try something like the Wii remote that's fine, but I have two expectations for when they try a gimmick like this:

2.) Don't make it mandatory

That is all I ask.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 'kay?

Most of the better wii titles don't force motion controls onto the gamer. For example, I play Monster Hunter Tri. I haven't used the wiimote itself in ages. I'd like you to meet my good friend.

Spoiler: He even came gold coloured

 

[Thaa'ir]

Most of my friends at school prefer Melee; my friends at home vastly prefer Brawl. I side with the latter group. Brawl to me seems faster paced, and I love chaotic battles.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Brawl's a ball load of fun and all. I guess for me it just boils down to the kills. I get killed more often by items than I do other players. I've also noticed in Brawl I can jump around and attack like a deadly fairy and still win.

But to each their own.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

I think brawl is mostly more fun than melee....Except for ONE thing that just pisses me off to no end.

Almost all of Brawl's stages are stupid. They put in WAY too many gimmicks. Take the ice climber stage: Ice? Sweeeet! Icicles? Cool! ...can't grab onto the edges? ...screws over any grapple recovery people, not cool... And on top of all that they throw in a fish that can randomly murder another player in a single moment? ...Now it just sucks.

Melee had LOTS of good stages. Aside from that though, Brawl is more fun.

 

[pspman45]

the stupid... motion... controls...

You know that little panel on the top of the Wii? Yeah, it's for plugging in gamecube controllers.

My gamecube controller doesn't work

 

[The Rookie Gamer]

Mewtwo himself is quality.

Without Mewtwo, there is less quality.

Stupid ninjas.

 

[penguindude42]

I always liked Melee more than Brawl. I have a list of reasons too.

1. Tripping
2. Jumps are more awkward
3. Removed Roy (back in the day me and my best friend were a tag team, I was Marth, he was Roy, it was awesome.)
4. Mewtwo Removed (Lucario is great and all, but he just isn't Mewtwo.)
5. That racing minigame
6. Subspace Emissary is good and all but I was dissapointed.

All in all I just think I had set my hopes too high for Brawl... but then again, the game did take 8 years to make.

Mewtwo was meant be in Brawl but didn't get in due to schedule problems.

Also, this thread's title is wrong. It should say "increase in quality", not "drop".

-TOM

 

[Danpascooch]

If Nintendo wants to try something like the Wii remote that's fine, but I have two expectations for when they try a gimmick like this:

2.) Don't make it mandatory

That is all I ask.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 'kay?

Most of the better wii titles don't force motion controls onto the gamer. For example, I play Monster Hunter Tri. I haven't used the wiimote itself in ages. I'd like you to meet my good friend.

Spoiler: He even came gold coloured

Yeah there are a few, but for the vast majority it's mandatory. It should be more like what the touchscreen is on the DS, for most DS games using the touchscreen as a means of control is totally optional.

 

[Weslebear]

I think it's more preference based than one is essentially better than the other, I am also of the opinion that Melee is much much better, having eliminated nostalgia by reaquiring a copy after playing Brawl for a while and enjoying it much more.

For me it was the speed and fluidity of gameplay that made Melee much more compelling, combat is incredibly fast and streamlined whereas with Brawl the game has been significantly slowed, try a Melee match followed straight by a Brawl, it's like playing in slo-mo. As well as the extra features adding to the bogged down feel of the game whilst in actual combat, however I did love the extra modes and story accompanying Brawl.

Watch tournament play from Melee and compare it to Brawl play, you will see a huge speed difference. For the actual fighting and raw competition it was much more adrenaline pumping and exciting experience for me in Melee overall, whereas Brawl felt like a dumbed down edition or entry level for the new players which since it was release on the Wii, is exactly what it was made as.