Star Wars Force Awakens Spoiler Filled discussion thread (no spoiler tags, you've been warned)

[Zontar]

Alright so this thread is for people to talk openly about the events of Star Wars Force Awakens without the need to use spoiler tags or hold back.

If you have not seen the move and don't want spoilers, turn back now!

Ok now that that's out of the way. Wow. Was not expecting that. The movie was better then I expected, but not as good as I hoped. Definitely up there with Return of the Jedi in terms of quality, and the prequels, well, they seem to be a non-entity at this point.

I will say I got spoiler jihaded for Han and Ben, but Ben's existence was revealed in his introduction and to be honest with the way it was framed everyone should have seen what happened between them occur a mile away.

What did catch me off guard was the fact that Coruscant is gone. I mean it's fucking gone! That trillions of people dead on that planet alone (who knows what the other 4 planets destroyed where. Hope to god Corellia was not one of them). I mean that's they type of thing a movie is meant to have as its climax be the thing to prevent, not the demonstration of just how evil the First Order is. I mean god, I was attached to that planet.

That being said I was really disappointed in the super-weapon being used AGAIN, I mean come on the ammount of resources and manpower needed to build that thing could have made a fleet that would be invincible. Though why the Republic stood by and did nothing as the First Order openly tried to take the place of the Galactic Empire is beyond me. I mean one could argue they're too weak to take them on or the fact that there may be a situation where Admirals and Moffs from the Galactic Empire have all formed their own nations and the Republic is just a part of the balance of power, but none of that was implied so it just came off as a complacent government having its inaction in the face of obvious danger result if its downfall.

Apart from that the rest of the movie was pretty by the numbers and expected for what it was. What do you all think?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I wasn't expecting anything too great...BUT I LOVED IT. I was not expecting that amount of humor in it, and I honestly liked the way it was handled. I too wasn't expecting the fucking 5 planets getting blown away, but I was expecting a super weapon of some sorts again, just not that thing...

A while back I had read up on random bits of lore here and there on what happened after episode 6, so I saw ben coming a mile away, although I'm not sure what of the EU is completely being tossed out and what will be kept in the new movies, so I'll definitely be intrigued to watch the next one.

I thought there was the right amount of action, pacing, and a decent sized cast, however I do wish the plot had maybe moved a bit more in regards to luke, it seemed a bit weak to have him in literally just the last minute or two of the movie.

great job by the new major cast members I'd say, maybe besides ben, although it can be hard to like a bad guy sometimes.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

1) Was that supposed to be Coruscant?
2) I'm more than a bit spiteful of Han's death. The only reason I tolerate it is because I suspect this is Harrison finally getting his revenge on Lucas.
3) Oscar Isaac is amazing and Episode VIII could only benefit from focusing exclusively on his character.
4) That ending... Matrix Reloaded, anybody?
5) C-3PO's random red arm was hilarious. What a half-assed jab at selling new toys.
6) Did anybody get where the bad guys came from, at all? Why are we back to Emperor/Vader/Moff & Death Star? Who are these people? At no point is the Rebellion's victory in Return of the Jedi acknowledged. What happened that everything sucks again?

 

[Dazzle Novak]

A reminder that entertaining =/= quality.

I don't think I like a single detail concerning the story, but the movie hit all the "haha" and "ooh" bits. Likewise, the actors are great (Boyega owned his role) but the actual characterization is weak as fuck.

Lastly, sitting by two kids, I could only imagine their eyes glazing over every time Old Smuggler Man and General Mom made googly-eyes while the adults in the audience wallowed in nostalgia. Just the fact that Luke was the mcguffin for the movie... Leia has to explain to whatever political aparatus she's a part of: "We must expend thousands of lives and ships to find my space wizard brother. He's a super big deal!"

New Tarkin was low key MVP to me with his over-acting ass...

 

[Shoggoth2588]

1) Was that supposed to be Coruscant?
2) I'm more than a bit spiteful of Han's death. The only reason I tolerate it is because I suspect this is Harrison finally getting his revenge on Lucas.
3) Oscar Isaac is amazing and Episode VIII could only benefit from focusing exclusively on his character.
4) That ending... Matrix Reloaded, anybody?
5) C-3PO's random red arm was hilarious. What a half-assed jab at selling new toys.
6) Did anybody get where the bad guys came from, at all? Why are we back to Emperor/Vader/Moff & Death Star? Who are these people? At no point is the Rebellion's victory in Return of the Jedi acknowledged. What happened that everything sucks again?

1) confused me too...I could have sworn someone said something along the lines of, "oh no, (planet name that isn't Coruscant)"

2) That is not dead which is still alive in real life. True, Liam Neeson didn't come back as a Force Ghost and it's highly unlikely that Han will but there's a ton of potential for flash-backs and whatnot.

5 & 6) What annoys me about this aspect of the movies is that I think we were expected to read the new novels and/or comics to get the full scope of what's been going on. I don't dislike reading EU stuff in general but I hate it when a film maker puts essential information in places outside of the film's narrative. What the Hell were those animals Han was transporting? Where did The New Order get the funds and resources and man-power to form an army of that scale?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Nothing about Han's death particularly shocked or surprised me, but I do think it was handled quite well nontheless. It was set up interestingly enough, where early on we get a scene where we see Kylo Ren struggle with the Light side. It was sort of cool to see him be as scared of the Light side as Jedis are of the Dark side. So when you see Ren in coversation with Han about how there's something tearing him up inside and how he needs his father's help to conquer it, it made for a nice pay off.

I really liked the the scene at the very beginning where Kylo Ren catches Poe taking a shot at him, and he holds both him and the laser shot in place. It was a different way we saw the Force get used than before, and it also looked positively vicious. It reminded me a bit of the Ralph Bakshi movie Fire and Ice and the way Necron would have his poor victims squirm under his mind powers.

The P.O.V. shot from Coruscant as it got hit by the death ray made for a nice impact.

There seemed to be a slight bit of world building going on with the stormtroopers, and how apparently they're not allowed to take off their helmets almost ever. Which I'm assuming is so they don't see eachother and themselves as individuals/humans, but solely as cogs in the war machine. If this was the intention then that was a nice touch.

I also sort of liked how Rey awoke to the Force. She's reminded of a childhood trauma by Finn leaving, which draws her to Luke's lightsaber, which then triggers some vision. Then later when she's getting Force-tterogated by Kylo Ren, him using the Force on her mind seems to draw it more from her. It made it feel like these powers ressonate with one another.

I've heard people commend the chemistry between Rey and Finn, but I can't say their friendship worked as well for me. It might be because things were constantly in motion and there wasn't ever any quiet time between them. It was either them arguing or them running away from something. By the very end some strides are made, but through most of the film I didn't feel much of a bond.

Chewie had some funny moments. I liked the scene between him and the nurse.

The lightsaber fights were very well done. They felt heavy and dangerous, and there was a sense that you simply had to able to wield the Force in order to wield a lightsaber -- That they're so brimming with energy that one needs to contain it somehow. Maybe reading too much into that one.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I just gonna copy and my comment from the other thread

Spoiler

I liked how most of the creature/ aliens were guys in suit and animatronic (the animals) than CGI.

Look like that guy who posted that conspircy thread on here was right about Kylo Ren identity but not about that character death and Luke reappearing.

Sure I wasn't suprised at his death since afterward I realise his role in the film was Obiwan Kenobi. I was however suprised that Rey was force sensitive (aka Jedi) than Finn who I was expecting to be the one. I assume it was him cos of those still shot holding the lightsaber.

The reference to the old films were fine (about the 12 parsec and Finn finding that training ball).

Whose that old guy at the start of the film or just some random guy? I thought he appear in the old triliogy somewhere.

Heck even the location were pretty much a call back to the old films like Jakku aka Tatooni, the Resistance base is Yavin and the new Deathstar was Hoth I guess.

Speaking of the new Deathstar, I did find the new one more intimatating seeing how it was an actual planet this time round than an artifical moon. Also it shoot long range and the bean can be splitted. Still I hoping it won't return in the sequels. Oh did Courasant get destroyed or was that some other city like planet?

Made sense that Luke didn't appear in the poster as the scene of him in it was just a vision and only truly appearing on screen right at the end.

I liked the new twist of stuff like this time round that Porkin character survived! Also it was cool seeing a glimpse of the inhabitants seeing their doom from the Death Star.

Also I bet if George were to reedit the film, he will make it so that random guy try to attack Han first before he shove him into that alien path! #Hanshovefirst!

I thought the new TIE Fighter were cool at first for having a rear gunner but once again it proven to be ineffient against the new X Wing eventhought they got their engine cut in half!

Also how come the resistance are alot smaller to the Rebel and what happened to the A, B and Y Wings? Also I guess it was called back to the first film in that it look like only 3 X wings survived but only to reveal there were 3 more at the very back!

The new cast were ok. I want to know Kylo Ren motive to joining the dark side which I can guess he got that inferior complex going on (he doubted that he can lived up to Luke expectation to be a great Jedi). Also did Kylo got his hand chopped off and I can bet he may have the "Darth" title in the next film. Lastly he doesn't look like as if he was Han and Leia child.

Kylo lightsaber does proved to be effective for having that light crossguard afterall when it come to the blade clashing by having the side stabbing the other person!

Lol I thought Snoke was a giant which I also guess he got some kind of intimation complex going on aswell if he need a giant life size hologram build in that room!

If that "Life debt" is still canon (I mean they never mention it in the triliogy) is Chewie fee now or will he stick to Rey or Luke now? Speaking of Chewie, was his crossbow always that powerful?

I can guess there is a conspiricy going on that Rey is Luke daughter now.

As for Han death, I wasn't suprised by it since he was original supposed to died in The Empire Strike Back.

Overall, I just thought it was inbetween ok and good but not groundbreaking. Heck I wanted to post "The last time I watched a great film in December was LoTR Triliogy" on Facebook.

 

[Johnlives]

I thought it was entertaining but ultimately I was disappointed. It felt more like a reboot that a sequel. So many parts were recycled, mostly from Ep IV.

 

[LetalisK]

*reads the spoilers* Eh? This looks like comic book caliber writing. I don't say that as a compliment. I was hoping this movie wasn't going to be flashy flashy boom boom over bombastic plot points that are more akin to daytime soap opera writing...who am I kidding, it's J.J. Abrams and a Star Wars movie. I'll just go in and enjoy it for what it is: sweet empty calories.

 

[Hawki]

I really can't summon the energy to discuss this film at length, but based on the other points in this thread:

-Coruscant: Hah hah...remember how Coruscant featured in the prequels? Remember how we (Disney) are trying to make you forget the prequels ever happened? Well now Coruscant's gone, mirroring Alderaan. Never mind that the Republic presumably has other worlds, and now has every intention to engage the First Order in open war, and hah hah...hah hah...

Yeah, screw it. It's the latest event showing the First Order to be trigger-happy morons, it rips off yet another plot point from Ep. IV, and I have no illusion that it's a jab at the prequels, using Coruscant by proxy. Not that there's probably all that many people who would feel annoyed by that, but, well...

-Han's death was fine. I saw it coming a mile away, but I thought it was handled well. I actually like the concept of Kylo being "seduced" by the Light side, as if it's something to be resisted. It actually ties in with Mas's hints at the idea of a cycle of Light and Dark, that the Jedi and Sith were but pawns/proxies of the sides of the Force, rather than the main players themselves.

-I actually liked Poe's character...kind of. It's a plothole (one of many) how we somehow makes it back to the Resistance base from Jakku, or survived being thrown from a crashed TIE fighter (when you're thrown out of a crashing plane or car, tell me how you survived), but that he's conspicuously NOT a jerk to Finn is a nice touch.

-The ending isn't one I'd equate to the Matrix Reloaded, but it does have its own problems. Why is Rey handing out Luke's lightsaber to him? He presumably has his own (the green one), and IMO, it would regress his character to use the old one. Also, how did that lightsaber even be retrieved? It...oh yes, contrivance.

-The Resistance and First Order are at least touched on in the EU, but, yes. It's like this film went to the opposite end of the spectrum from the prequels. That it mentions a "Republic" and promptly effectively destroys that Republic in the same breath. It subverts an unexplained status quo to re-establish the OT status quo.

-Rey...ugh. Let me put it this way:

Ep. I: Anakin has no Jedi training. He has basic Force abilities, but nothing else.

Ep. II: 10 years have passed. Anakin is a competent lightsaber fighter, but is still defeated by Dooku relatively easily.

Ep. III: 3 years have passed. Anakin's at his strongest, and defeats Dooku easily. However, after a very long battle, he's finally brought down by Obi-Wan.

Ep. IV: Luke is given basic lightsaber lessons, but never uses it in combat.

Ep. V: 3 years have passed. Luke has presumably self-taught himself, and gets advice from Yoda. That said, he's still bested by Vader (as Anakin was bested by Dooku), and for similar reasons (overconfidence, rushing in), though puts up a valiant fight.

Ep. VI: 1 year has passed. Luke is now finally Vader's equal, but can only defeat him by channelling the Dark Side, and pulling himself back at the last moment. He's powerless before Palpatine, but is saved by Vader at the cost of his own life.

Ep. VII: Rey, with no lightsaber training whatsoever, and having tapped into the Force over the course of a day, beats Kylo Ren in an under-choreographed (yes, I'm calling it that) lightsaber duel.

See the problem here? Rey has given us no reason to fear Kylo Ren. Anakin and Luke both have an arc that includes their proficiency in combat, with Luke succeeding where Anakin fails. Rey has not failed. Rey is more powerful than either of them. Yes, Luke's training is smaller than Anakin's, but really? And don't say "oh, she has experience with a staff" (different weapon, different weight, diferent style) or "Ren was wounded" (he still easily beat Finn). I suppose this time Rey will beat Snoke (the Palpatine equivalent) with no help whatsoever.

-TIE fighters and X-WIngs...yep, same old stuff. Remember how Ep. I had entirely new ship designs, and even by Ep. III we were only seeing precursors to the new tech? And if you're going to rehash the old tech, where are my A-Wings and Y-Wings? Bastards...

-I actually doubt that Rey is Luke's daughter. When she's left behind on Jakku, she's clearly old enough to remember her parents, and she never talks about Luke in the sense of him being her father. So either Luke was never in her life whatsoever, or he isn't her father.

So, in conclusion...well, what I've said before. TFA is competent. There's no doubt about that. If it was the first in a series, I'd be far more receptive to it. But it's little more than a rehash of what's come before, with little added in terms of ideas, story, or justification for it to exist. Of the now 7 main Star Wars films, I only rank it above TPM and AotC.

 

[necromanzer52]

I thought it was ok.

1. I liked Poe and I thought he and Finn had good bromance potential from what little screen time they shared. Just a shame he wasn't in it more. Rey was pretty cool too.
2. The only moment that really wowed me was when they millenium falcon first takes off. And even then I was thinking "So the millenium falcon just happened to be there, for them to hijack?"
3. The searching for Luke plotline is abandoned half way through for a rehash of the battle of Yavin and Mark Hamill doesn't show up until the very very end. This annoyed me.
4. The easiest way to piss me off with any movie is to have a part where the hero decides they don't want any more to do with this and go to leave before coming back when they realise that they do give a damn. Granted, it wasn't done nearly as badly in this as in other movies, but it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
5. Didn't care much for Kylo Ren. He mostly came off as whiny. Saw Han's death coming from a mile away.
6. The sets were very nice, even if they were highly derivative of the original trilogy.
7. Han and Chewie are still cool. Leia has a funny accent now.
8. That bit where the evil bloke gave a big speech was very good.

Overall, it felt more like an extended prologue than a film in its own right. Existing mostly to establish the new characters and situation and to set things up for the next one which I'm hoping will be a lot better. I really liked the first half hour or so, but after that it mostly felt like it was just going through the motions, never doing anything interesting or surprising.

I really wanted to like this movie. Oh god. Is this how older fans felt when phantom menace came out?

 

[Comic Sans]

On the whole I really enjoyed the film. I felt that the big issue was pacing. The scene on Han's ship with those creatures and the gangsters felt really unnecessary. It was like they felt the movie needed an action scene to keep things moving, when honestly what would have worked better would have been some quiet time with Finn and Rey to build their bond. The movie moved at a really good pace early but then kind of grinded to a halt there. Though to be fair I was super tired from long hours at work and had a bit of a headache so I might have felt differently if I felt better. Other issues I had were a little too much comic relief from Finn and that the plot's climax was basically A New Hope all over again.

But everything else was great. The sets and creatures and sounds were perfect. Most of the callbacks were pretty awesome and done in a way that wasn't grating. Most of the dialogue and comedy worked. The returning characters all did a good job, I thought Rey was a well done character, and Kylo Ren was really interesting. I really want to know more about Kylo and Snoak. How they met, what drove Ren and his group to the Dark Side, and Rey's relationship with it as her vision implied. I really loved how he struggled with turning to the light side, the opposite of what is normally portrayed. The lightsaber fights were heavy and visceral, as was the use of the Force. The prequels made everything seem to weightless and easy that it lacked any punch. Here, much like in the originals, when a lightsaber comes out it's serious and has a lot of oomph behind it. The fight with Rey and Kylo at the end was much more intense and well shot than anything in the prequels. The booming effect of the force when Kylo uses it on stuff was fantastic. Really made it feel powerful in a way the Force never has.

I really look forward to what comes next. The groundwork has been laid for some interesting stuff, and the plot hooks are there. I am ready to see where Disney takes it.

 

[MiskWisk]

Going to go with the, "it's competent, but not great."

Honestly, the story itself is probably the biggest weakness. The acting is pretty good, at least in most cases but the story is so much of a rehash of IV that it becomes painful when they try to differentiate things. Kylo "Not-Vader" Ren for instance is much less composed than his grandaddy and continues throwing a temper tantrum past intimidating into amusing but managing to stop just short of pathetic. It doesn't help that right now his fall has been hinted as "Daddy didn't love me because he sent me to learn to be a space wizard monk with my Uncle." They really need to fix that.

The film also becomes rather poor in the segments where they start trying to talk philosophy (force-losophy? Philo-forcey?). They insist on the black-white dichotomy and when we have had the EU produce much better and more nuanced arguments, well, it becomes rather weak.

I also think of the two leads, Rey is definitely the weaker. Maybe it is because they were planning on crippling Finn and so they fit all his character development into one film but Finn seems more like a character rather than a swiss army plot device. I'll hold off my full judgement of Rey until later movies though.

The film ultimately works but only because of certain actors dragging the reheated plot of episode IV around.

EDIT: Oh, and Snoke (is that the big bad puppet master's name?) did a good job of being intimidating in his little screen time. Unfortunately, whoever designed him decided to make him Slender Man OC (do not steal). Seriously, look at his design, look at the way people talk about him taking Ren and tell me that is not Slender Man.

 

[Hoplon]

Ep. VII: Rey, with no lightsaber training whatsoever, and having tapped into the Force over the course of a day, beats Kylo Ren in an under-choreographed (yes, I'm calling it that) lightsaber duel.

See the problem here? Rey has given us no reason to fear Kylo Ren. Anakin and Luke both have an arc that includes their proficiency in combat, with Luke succeeding where Anakin fails. Rey has not failed. Rey is more powerful than either of them. Yes, Luke's training is smaller than Anakin's, but really? And don't say "oh, she has experience with a staff" (different weapon, different weight, diferent style) or "Ren was wounded" (he still easily beat Finn). I suppose this time Rey will beat Snoke (the Palpatine equivalent) with no help whatsoever.

Who says a Kylo Ren has had extensive light saber training? his technique before the fight is largely brute force. hell his light sabre is massively unrefined. i get the feeling while Snoak gave him some force training he's entirely self taught with a sabre. so the first time he comes up against a force user with a sabre he doesn't do that well even with untrained as she is.

So the fight isn't under-choreographed, it's meant to convey neither of them are trained to use a light sabre.

 

[mad825]

Who says a Kylo Ren has had extensive light saber training? his technique before the fight is largely brute force. hell his light sabre is massively unrefined. i get the feeling while Snoak gave him some force training he's entirely self taught with a sabre. so the first time he comes up against a force user with a sabre he doesn't do that well even with untrained as she is.

So the fight isn't under-choreographed, it's meant to convey neither of them are trained to use a light sabre.

Haven't seen the film but the way you convey it sounds as if they'd better with a blaster rifle. I don't even know what numpty would use a weapon they can't use effectively in a life or death situation.

Even Luke opted for a weapon that he was proficient in even though it may have not been effective for that situation.

 

[Hoplon]

Who says a Kylo Ren has had extensive light saber training? his technique before the fight is largely brute force. hell his light sabre is massively unrefined. i get the feeling while Snoak gave him some force training he's entirely self taught with a sabre. so the first time he comes up against a force user with a sabre he doesn't do that well even with untrained as she is.

So the fight isn't under-choreographed, it's meant to convey neither of them are trained to use a light sabre.

Haven't seen the film but the way you convey it sounds as if they'd better with a blaster rifle. I don't even know what numpty would use a weapon they can't use effectively in a life or death situation.

Even Luke opted for a weapon that he was proficient in even though it may have not been effective for that situation.

Single person with a blaster doesn't do well against a force user with a light sabre, since it's the force that allows them to block the blaster shot. she does how ever know how to fight in melee combat, does it a couple times before this.

 

[Cartographer]

The entire First Order come across as wannabes, kids with axes to grind/chips on their shoulder who are mimicking something in order to assume some of it's grandeur/gravitas. And failing abysmally.
Seriously, the first Imperial Officer we see in ANH is a mid-40's chap who openly questions Vader to his face and warrants an explanation from the Dark Lord in response.
The entire leadership of the first order look like the cast of New-Trek in badly fitting imperial uniforms.

Other than that, I largely agree with the points here, though I like that Ren tried to use the sabre as a thrusting weapon (Kendo being the original martial art that lightsabre combat was supposed to emulate), it makes sense that she would not try and flail about in a confined space not knowing for sure how well the blade would cut through the trees etc.

 

[The Bucket]

-The ending isn't one I'd equate to the Matrix Reloaded, but it does have its own problems. Why is Rey handing out Luke's lightsaber to him? He presumably has his own (the green one), and IMO, it would regress his character to use the old one. Also, how did that lightsaber even be retrieved? It...oh yes, contrivance.

I dont think Rey knows anything about the circumstances of the lighsaber, she just didnt feel that it was hers and was returning it to its most rightful owner. I dont think he's going to use it, but it does bring back painful memories for him

Who says a Kylo Ren has had extensive light saber training? his technique before the fight is largely brute force. hell his light sabre is massively unrefined. i get the feeling while Snoak gave him some force training he's entirely self taught with a sabre. so the first time he comes up against a force user with a sabre he doesn't do that well even with untrained as she is.

So the fight isn't under-choreographed, it's meant to convey neither of them are trained to use a light sabre.

Haven't seen the film but the way you convey it sounds as if they'd better with a blaster rifle. I don't even know what numpty would use a weapon they can't use effectively in a life or death situation.

Even Luke opted for a weapon that he was proficient in even though it may have not been effective for that situation.

Kylo is kind of a nunny, he wants to be Vader in everything he does (no matter how poor or unstable he is at it) and Vader used a light sabre

 

[laggyteabag]

Oops

 

[laggyteabag]

6) Did anybody get where the bad guys came from, at all? Why are we back to Emperor/Vader/Moff & Death Star? Who are these people? At no point is the Rebellion's victory in Return of the Jedi acknowledged. What happened that everything sucks again?

A lot of people share the same view, but in reality, the Rebels never really won. Sure, they killed the emperor, killed Darth Vader, and destroyed the second Death Star, great, cool, good job, rebels. However, the entire Galactic Empire wasn't inside that Death Star when it was destroyed, and so too wasn't the Empire's fleet. All the Rebels did at the end of Return of the Jedi was cut the biggest head off of the multiheaded beast that was the Galactic Empire, and I would put money on there being more than enough generals/soldiers/ships/dark jedi to fill the void that the Emperor and Darth Vader left behind. Hell, that is probably where this Snoak guy came from.

This video pretty much sums it up.