Star Wars Rebels

[Kolby Jack]

Anybody into it? What are your thoughts?

I was really into The Clone Wars, especially the later seasons, and I'll admit Rebels mostly hasn't reached the level The Clone Wars did, but they do have a smaller budget to work with too so it's not entirely their fault. That said, to date I've only disliked one episode: this season's "Iron Squadron." Man, it was bad. And then suddenly, the latest episode that just aired, "Trials of the Darksaber" is now one of my favorite episodes ever, if not my favorite.

I also thought it was really cool how Rebels got a couple of cameos/shout-outs in Rogue One. The Ghost appearing in the Battle of Scarif, Chopper showing up at the base on Yavin-4, and the intercom call for "General Syndulla" were really gratifying for me and helped strenghten the idea of the shared universe. Disney is doing very well with the franchise so far, in my opinion.

 

[Dansen]

This season has been pretty disappointing for the most part despite having a strong first episode. Too much of it has been mediocre filler. Season 2 Finale was amazing, it was the first time I have actually felt like their philosophy was portrayed in a morally gray light. I wished they had kept the momentum. "Trials of the Darksaber" was great because it felt like things were actually starting to move forward again. Lots of strong character development in this episode.

I'd say Rebels is on a similar level to Clone Wars, people keep forgetting that the Clone Wars had a huge handicap in its favor when it came to story telling. It take place during a time of OPEN WAR. The story was able to jump to multiple characters in different situations practically every arc. There were a lot more dramatic opportunities available to the writers. Battles could be larger with bigger body counts and what not.

Rebels also had a huge change in direction from Clone Wars by focussing the story/setting through the lens of the Ghost crew, maybe this will change after the cells begin to unite but for the time being its just the Ghost. I am really looking forward to where Maul's story ends up. Personally I am hoping him and Obi Wan forgive each other. The second half looks like its going to improve, Im looking forward to what they have planned for the season 3 finale.

 

[Basement Cat]

I've enjoyed Rebels but I agree that there are a lot of "filler" episodes that don't enthrall me. The same thing happened in Clone Wars but as I've only watched them since the series ended I don't feel the frustration that comes with encountering two and even three part mini-arcs that make me want to roll my eyes like I do watching Rebels as it unfolds.

Trial of the Dark Saber was one of the series' very best episodes and I'm hoping that it will lead to other strong episodes. I kinda have the feeling, however, that Rebels' storyline is trapped in the same way SHIELD was when the writers were restrained from moving forward at times while waiting for the next Captain America movie to come out.

 

[Zontar]

One thing I'm wondering is why we got Rebels at all. Even if Disney wanted to have a show that wasn't on a reasonable budget for what it was trying to do (the only reason I'm convinced they used the same guys for Rebels is due to Lucas having it be in the contract that they couldn't fire the staff of Lucasarts) they could have just had Clones wrap up properly and reduce the per-episode budget instead of giving it a solid axe.

Rebels exists because Disney wanted the money brought in by a Star Wars animated series but didn't want the high (but very much profitable) price tag of Clone Wars. And while Rebels is okay for what it is, it's very much a step down from Clone Wars even just in the overall quality of its storytelling, and it's painfully obvious that Disney wants to take the 'war' out of 'Star Wars' as much as humanly possible. The subject matter is much more 'child friendly' (even though Clone Wars was perfectly fine for children no matter what Hollywood anti-violence types think) and the violence toned down a lot (I don't remember where, but I saw someone count the on screen deaths for the first two seasons of both series. A typical episode of Clone War had more per episode then Rebels had in a season).

I also think the passion may be gone now, that this is just a paycheck to the makers, since what once went out of its way to be crafted around pre-established canon in the novels and comics now disregards even the canon of the movies (there is no excuse for that Tie fighter scene).

 

[Zontar]

I kinda have the feeling, however, that Rebels' storyline is trapped in the same way SHIELD was when the writers were restrained from moving forward at times while waiting for the next Captain America movie to come out.

Given how they did a time skip between Clone Wars and Rebels, this is entirely due to the writers choosing to make the series at the moment they did instead of putting it close enough to A New Hope to allow them to actually do something big. While there was a very clear mandate to tone down the violence by a full order of magnitude, I don't think that mandate also demanded they keep it a certain distance from the movie's points in time.

 

[Basement Cat]

I kinda have the feeling, however, that Rebels' storyline is trapped in the same way SHIELD was when the writers were restrained from moving forward at times while waiting for the next Captain America movie to come out.

Given how they did a time skip between Clone Wars and Rebels, this is entirely due to the writers choosing to make the series at the moment they did instead of putting it close enough to A New Hope to allow them to actually do something big. While there was a very clear mandate to tone down the violence by a full order of magnitude, I don't think that mandate also demanded they keep it a certain distance from the movie's points in time.

FIRST I HAVE A REQUEST FOR EVERYONE: I haven't seen Rogue One yet so please don't spoil any links or Easter eggs between Rebels and the new movie! Pretty please with sugar on top?

OT:
I wonder if they're dragging out season 3 of Rebels because they're going to reveal something big like Ahsoka having survived and possibly being alive in the new trilogy's era. After all her species could live a lot longer than humans and she wouldn't be much older than Leia or Han. Chewbacca's certainly not running around with senior citizen's walker, for example.

Question: I've only got the first two seasons of Clones on DVD. I missed the time skip in the third season and I've watched several of the episodes beyond season 2.

Which leads me to ask a question. IIRC the time between Prequel II and Prequel III was just two years. Ahsoka was just 13 or 14 when season 1 started but she was 17 at the end of season 5.

Huh? I've got to be missing something here. Could you fill in the blanks for me?

 

[Zontar]

OT:
I wonder if they're dragging out season 3 of Rebels because they're going to reveal something big like Ahsoka having survived and possibly being alive in the new trilogy's era. After all her species could live a lot longer than humans and she wouldn't be much older than Leia or Han. Chewbacca's certainly not running around with senior citizen's walker, for example.

She'd be 36 to 39 during the events of the origianl trilogy, and 70 at the time of Force Awakens. Even if her species aged like a human she'd be fine.

Question: I've only got the first two seasons of Clones on DVD. I missed the time skip in the third season and I've watched several of the episodes beyond season 2.

Which leads me to ask a question. IIRC the time between Prequel II and Prequel III was just two years. Ahsoka was just 13 or 14 when season 1 started but she was 17 at the end of season 5.

Huh? I've got to be missing something here. Could you fill in the blanks for me?

The war lasted 3 years, and she was 14 when it started, so as a result she was 17 when it ended.

 

[Kolby Jack]

FIRST I HAVE A REQUEST FOR EVERYONE: I haven't seen Rogue One yet so please don't spoil any links or Easter eggs between Rebels and the new movie! Pretty please with sugar on top?

Don't worry, they are literally cameos. I didn't notice any of them when I actually saw the movie, only finding out about them afterward.

OT:
I wonder if they're dragging out season 3 of Rebels because they're going to reveal something big like Ahsoka having survived and possibly being alive in the new trilogy's era. After all her species could live a lot longer than humans and she wouldn't be much older than Leia or Han. Chewbacca's certainly not running around with senior citizen's walker, for example.

She'd actually be about 17-18 years older than Leia, given that Leia was born just as the Clone Wars ended. Not a massive gap, but hardly a similar age if Togruta age the same as humans.

I'd say Rebels is on a similar level to Clone Wars, people keep forgetting that the Clone Wars had a huge handicap in its favor when it came to story telling. It take place during a time of OPEN WAR. The story was able to jump to multiple characters in different situations practically every arc. There were a lot more dramatic opportunities available to the writers. Battles could be larger with bigger body counts and what not.

That's a good point. Some of the most interesting episodes of TCW were the ones involving situations outside the scope of the movie trilogy. Even if they still starred Anakin and Obi-Wan, they were often inserted into these situations and introduced to cool characters to interact with. There's not quite as much of that with Rebels, but they do seem to try and flesh out the actual process of building a real rebellion.

Rebels exists because Disney wanted the money brought in by a Star Wars animated series but didn't want the high (but very much profitable) price tag of Clone Wars. And while Rebels is okay for what it is, it's very much a step down from Clone Wars even just in the overall quality of its storytelling, and it's painfully obvious that Disney wants to take the 'war' out of 'Star Wars' as much as humanly possible. The subject matter is much more 'child friendly' (even though Clone Wars was perfectly fine for children no matter what Hollywood anti-violence types think) and the violence toned down a lot (I don't remember where, but I saw someone count the on screen deaths for the first two seasons of both series. A typical episode of Clone War had more per episode then Rebels had in a season).

I'm not sure I agree with that notion. While Disney XD may not be as keen on war violence as the movie franchise, I doubt they are THAT much worse than Cartoon Network. Plus, having seen Rogue One, it's VERY MUCH a war movie. Both it and The Force Awakens don't seem to have their level of violence or grit affected by Disney at all. As for the body counts between the two TV shows, as Dansen pointed out, Clone Wars takes place during a time of active war. Rebels may involve a rebellion, but it's still only the beginnings of the rebellion, before any open conflict takes place.

Given how they did a time skip between Clone Wars and Rebels, this is entirely due to the writers choosing to make the series at the moment they did instead of putting it close enough to A New Hope to allow them to actually do something big. While there was a very clear mandate to tone down the violence by a full order of magnitude, I don't think that mandate also demanded they keep it a certain distance from the movie's points in time.

I think I saw somewhere that the Rebels team is pushing to end the series with the Battle of Scarif from Rogue One seen from the Ghost crew's point of view. I'm not 100% sure of that, they may have just suggested that it would be an interesting story to tell since we know the Ghost was there. Can't say I disagree with that idea, though; I think that would be a great way to end the series.

 

[Neverhoodian]

It's a fun show. Despite some gripes, it manages to stir my inner child, evoking memories of playing with Star Wars toys back in the 90's. When it brings its "A" game, it rekindles those feelings of magic and wonder I had watching the classic trilogy for the first time.

While perhaps not the most engaging characters around, the Ghost's crew are likeable and compelling enough in their own right (mostly...I'm looking at you, Chopper). My personal favorite is Hera; she's a skilled pilot (I've always gravitated more towards the Star Wars fantasy of piloting a starfighter or light freighter than being a Jedi) and she possesses a quiet, insightful wisdom that rivals Yoda at times. She's the glue that holds the group together. I'd be lying if I said she wasn't easy on the eyes as well...rawr...

One of my favorite elements is how the show is chock-full of references for hopeless Star Wars nerds like myself. It's gratifying to see so many of the better "Legends' concepts re-canonized, albeit with a bit of retooling to fit the new continuity (I don't care what they call them, though; those Rebel fighters are R-22 Spearheads, not A-Wings).

I did mention gripes earlier though, didn't I? Here they are...

-I realize the show's aimed towards younger audiences, but the lengths they go to try and tone down the violence is a bit absurd at times, not to mention wildly inconsistent. You'll have Stormtroopers take full-on blaster shots to the chest or face, yet you still see them moving on the ground afterwards. One episode had a Scout trooper getting shot off of his speeder bike during a high speed chase, yet the officer in charge reported "no casualties" during the debriefing. Meanwhile, scores of Tie pilots have died horrible, fiery deaths throughout the course of the series.

-Despite focusing on a new cast of characters, the show still relies a bit too heavily on cameos. While it was great to see characters like Ahsoka, Rex and Maul again, the frequency of their appearances make the show feel more like Clone Wars 2.0 at times than its own unique narrative.

-Some of the "filler" episodes are hard to sit through. To be fair though, they aren't as big of a snore-fest as your typical Senate-focused Clone Wars episode.

All in all, I'd say Rebels is on par with Clone Wars for me. The latter may have better production values and more engaging story arcs, but the former makes up for this with an era I'm more interested in and a more consistent presentation.

 

[Zontar]

Rebels may involve a rebellion, but it's still only the beginnings of the rebellion, before any open conflict takes place.

If we're being frank, this means the loss of life makes even less sense when you think about it. Sure, it means the big battles will be fewer in number (if they appear at all) but given how both series operate in their focus on smaller groups within a larger battlefield a guerrilla style war would have more, not less, on screen loss of life. Guerrilla forces have high turnover rates due to how such war is fought, and given who the people are who are working on it it's very clear the lack of turnover stems from mandate, not creative licence.

I think I saw somewhere that the Rebels team is pushing to end the series with the Battle of Scarif from Rogue One seen from the Ghost crew's point of view. I'm not 100% sure of that, they may have just suggested that it would be an interesting story to tell since we know the Ghost was there. Can't say I disagree with that idea, though; I think that would be a great way to end the series.

That would be an interesting way to end the series (though if it is, it won't happen until at least the 5th season to allow for syndication) but I'd much rather the series had started with the interesting stuff instead of ending with it.

Clone Wars and Rebels is almost a perfect way of analogising the pre and post Disney buyout of the franchise, with one clearly having much more care put into it with constant references to the larger universe, while the other is very clearly lower in quality though still passable that openly ignores the setting it's in.

 

[Zontar]

-Despite focusing on a new cast of characters, the show still relies a bit too heavily on cameos. While it was great to see characters like Ahsoka, Rex and Maul again, the frequency of their appearances make the show feel more like Clone Wars 2.0 at times than its own unique narrative.

To be frank, I think if the show had been a straight up sequel series to Clone Wars focusing on characters like Ahsoka, Rex, Maul, Ventress, Bane and the others who survived the rise of the empire, it would probably be a better series. A lot of these characters where prime candidates for being part of the formation of the rebellion, and the show could even be used to explain why they where never seen in the original trilogy (and in the case of Rex, canonise the creator approved theory that he's "Gramps" from the battle of Endor).

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I think its a good for show for what it is. When you compare it to the Clone Wars, of course it pales. The Clone Wars shouldn't even exist. A million bucks an episode, unconstrained creative freedom, filling in a largely unexplored area in the series, and a whole fucking universe of lore to build on. Rebels has almost the opposite of that, and it still manages to put out the quality episodes they have. For example, the reason that the Rebels never accomplish anything significant? One fucking line in the opening crawl of Episode 4.

The show isn't perfect by any means, there sure is a lot of filler (think of it this way though, I'd rather have Chopper/Zeb episodes rather than yet another fucking JarJar episode) and the action is sparse, but I watch the show for the lore building and character development stuff. What they're doing with Sabine right now is pretty cool. Small things like Hera having a different accent when she is emotional are what make the show for me, or when they showed the mummified corpse of Luminara Unduli. Another advantage that Rebels has is that they can bring characters from both the prequels and the OT, like Maul, Tarkin, Ahsoka, etc.

What I am waiting for the show to still do is show exactly why the Empire is so horrible. I want to see slavery, sexism (whatever happened to huMAN?), and biological experiments gone wrong (perhaps we will see Vader fuck up Xizor's family?). Also, make Rebels troops cool please. I loved the clones first because their armors were so badass. Show us how the Rebellion could survive that long despite their numbers, because they are made up of highly skilled individuals, like the Alliance Spec Ops.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/4/4a/Rebel_SpecForce.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090711235631

 

[baddude1337]

I'm quite behind on it, having watched a few episodes into season 2 but it's pretty enjoyable. It'a a shame they do go to extreme lengths to tone down the violence and dark subject matter, especially after later seasons of Clone Wars got away with so much (even the lacklustre first season had a high body count).

It is a shame Clone Wars was forcibly ended so abruptly without a proper ending tying in to Episode 3, but I guess Disney wanted a fresh start and seem to want the prequel stuff to disappear. A shame really as outside of the films the prequels had a lot of high quality games, comics, books and of course Clone Wars. At least the same creative team is behind Rebels, and they seem to stuff it full of references and cameos as a result, so it's nice we will get some kind of closure from some of the Clone Wars characters.

I still have yet to watch the Lost Episodes actually. Don't have Netflix and the Blu-Ray release is an extortionate amount of money for what it is (On Amazon UK, last time I checked seasons 1-5 on Blu Ray are cheaper than the Lost Episodes!). Are they worth a watch?

 

[Dansen]

I still have yet to watch the Lost Episodes actually. Don't have Netflix and the Blu-Ray release is an extortionate amount of money for what it is (On Amazon UK, last time I checked seasons 1-5 on Blu Ray are cheaper than the Lost Episodes!). Are they worth a watch?

I would check kiss cartoon if you dont mind streaming the episodes, they probably have them. If you want to check out the unfinished stuff, its all on youtube.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Wait, Chopper was in Rogue One???

OT- It's an ok show but this is coming from a guy who thought The Clone War was also an ok show. I mainly watched TCW for the actions.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Wait, Chopper was in Rogue One???

Yeah, he shows up in the background on Yavin IV.

 

[Tanis]

I've REALLY enjoyed it.

I wonder how many seasons it will actually go on for.

Unless, you know, they do something with The Ghost crew being around during the original trilogy.
It's not like they HAVE to die, there was WAY more than 'just' Luke going around doing stuff.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Wait, Chopper was in Rogue One???

It is literally faster than the blink of an eye. You have to know where to look and when to look in order to spot him. I only saw him the second time I saw the movie because of the motion blur of him moving and hearing his "voice". I wasn't even sure I saw him until they released the photo online a few days later. Even pausing it when it comes out on Blu-ray might be a chore in catching him.

Anyway, I enjoy the show, but it does have its problems. When I watched the first season, I was watching it because I am a Star Wars fan, not really because I was really liking it. The problem with the show comes from the fact that it focuses on such a small cast. Therefore, no matter how much trouble they get into, you KNOW they're going to be fine. The tension is gone. I had this same problem with The Clone Wars every time the episodes focused on Obi or Anakin.
However, once The Grand Inquisitor showed up, I became very impressed. That guy was a villain, and the fear in instilled in the cast was very well done. He was calm and ruthless, striking me almost as a Thrawn-type character when it came to the feeling of, "I am superior" that he had when facing Kanan and Ezra.
And I fully admit to cheering when Ahsoka showed up at the end of Season 1. Plus, with the reveal of other Rebel cells, the show has started to fix itself in terms of "the good guys can't die". Of course, it's kind of gone in the other direction, where the A-Wing pilots just utterly suck and can't shoot down anything, but at least they're trying.

The duel between Ahsoka and Vader was amazing for me, and I loved the threat that Vader said to Ezra "Then you will die braver than most" and Ahsoka's line of, "I am no Jedi."

Season 3 got off to a rough start, kind of tripping in terms of Thrawn. While it's cool to finally see him, he really hasn't shown his...Thrawn-ness. It looks like part 2 of Season 3 will address this, and even if it doesn't, the showdown between Maul and Obi should be great.
On the plus side for Season 3, it's doing a REALLY good job of fleshing out our cast and giving them all depth that they've needed. As the O.P. said, "Trials of the Darksaber" was amazing, and stands as one of my favorite episodes as well. The series has even made me feel a bit of pity for Maul, once we saw him crack on his homeworld and almost beg Ezra to come with him. He's completely alone, and it's sad.

I have come to the conclusion, after watching the first two seasons again on Blu-Ray, that Rebels works best when you can watch them back-to-back. Watching them a week or more apart, they do feel like filler more often than not, but if you watch them in chunks, I feel the show truly shines.

 

[Dansen]

Wait, Chopper was in Rogue One???

The duel between Ahsoka and Vader was amazing for me, and I loved the threat that Vader said to Ezra "Then you will die braver than most" and Ahsoka's line of, "I am no Jedi."

The best part of that bit is when Ezra's saber breaks and he begins to panic and Vader says, "Perhaps I was wrong." They haven't over exposed the big shots which helped give a ton of weight to the Vader fight at the end of season 2.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

The lower the budget, the higher the profit margin!!

That said, from what few episodes I've seen of the show, its harmlessly bland at its worst.