That's all very well and good, but if the game is more cinematic/cutscene than gameplay then I think something has gone horribly horribly wrong. (I'm looking at you Star Ocean: Last Hope)
StarCraft 2 Writer: Cinematics Tell "Very Important" Stories
- Thread starter StewShearerOld
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It's not that I enjoy cinematics, its that I enjoy story moments (and that's pretty much the same with all people, even those who mistakenly say they enjoy cinematics) and sometimes they are just the best tool for the job. Imagine if the original Fallout didn't have its phenomenal opening cinematic? Over a decade and a half later and were still saying 'War never changes'. That just couldn't have happened outside cinematics and we the game was a lot better for it. BUT, it seems like it is very easy to go overboard with it, as many developers seem to do.
You don't see much explanation because, for the first while after Wings came out, everyone was god damn tripping over themselves to point out its many flaws. Something that bad, the hate burned hot and fast; not many people can spare the bile any more to actually go in to it in any sort of depth, and we were resigned to Heart of the Swarm continuing down the same path.BanicRhys said:
I mean, there's that, and there's an element of "this is so self-evidently bad that nobody could actually like it so what is there even to talk about?" to it, but I think it's mostly the first one.
And yet, people liked it. Yes, it was flawed, but since when has Blizzard writing not had flaws? It's kinda why I like it.The Crotch said:
To another point, no Mengsk didn't hatch his plan to save humanity, and Kerrigan knows that. She helped him butcher a planet to topple the government and while he had been claiming to fight for something more equal, it wound up being the same as the previous one. So no, Mengsk and Kerrigan aren't really similar. Kerrigan knows that she just wants to kill him and the Zerg, being what they are, really don't matter on an individual level other than a few here and there. They don't think. The humans Mengsk sacrificed do, and I would actually make a bet that their kill counts are surprisingly close if we don't count pre-artifact Queen of Blades.
Considering this is a forum where I could still probably get a 46 page flame war thread just by posting about how the Mass Effect 3 ending was actually good and everyone who whines about it sucks, I'm gonna go ahead and call BS on "not many people can spare the bile anymore."The Crotch said:
The StarCraft 2 story is fine by video game standards. It was a step above "Diablo 3's villains are so proud of their evil plans, they'll tell you all of them all the time" dialogue and Half-life's "he's a great character because he's a scientist even though he never talks and how the hell does that prepare him for mass murder" characterizations. It's not exactly original plot-wise, but considering almost every game is "messiah hero of destiny saves the world from something," I think we can make do with "multiple messiah heroes save the galaxy." I mean really. Even the BEST video game story is still not really any better than a Steven Seagal movie by comparison to other medium because video games are bound to the principle of fun thanks to the user input requirement. Every minute where the player is not inputting or surrounded by conflict/challenge is a bored minute, regardless of how awesome the thing's on screen are acting. Or need I remind you of MGS4's movie marathon that I'm sure everyone loved?
Arguments about Starcraft's actual story aside, its a very good point. As long as you are not so in love with cutscenes they choke the game (Hideo Kojimo, you know i am looking at you!) they can be a powerful tool for storytelling, especially combined with other methods. IMO cutscenes are just getting too much hate right now.
Cutscenes are defineately useful if you want to create drama in your story, i don´t really see any other way to do stuff like that without it being ackward and ineffective. Especially if you are making an RTS game.
OT: Cinematics can tell very deep stories, and a well-designed cutscene can convey much more than text or in-engine rendering. The problem is that both players and developers rarely expect more than awesome action sequences out of cutscenes.
Honestly, a long-term struggle with Kerrigan struggling to not lapse back into the Queen of Blades could be a very interesting story foundation. It probably wouldn't have made any difference in gameplay, but it pretty much got sidelined by saving Princess Raynor and the revenge plot against Mengsk. To the writers' credit, it wasn't completely abandoned - but it was a very big leap for her to go right back to embracing the Zerg (and undid the entire finale of Wings of Liberty.)
I still find it depressingly amusing that one-dimensional revenge against Mengsk only became a significant character motivation after she regained her humanity and empathy; as the "Queen *****" in Brood War, she was the one who let him out of his cold sleep and let him regain power in the first place. It would have been a hell of a lot more efficient to kill him right there. Not that that change in behavior is completely unjustifiable; it just goes against the recurrent theme of "Aww, Kerrigan's no longer as bloodthirsty any more."
And the constant succession of characters within the plotline being hamfisted into the role of evil cardboard-cutout villains is quite grating, but is completely standard for what Blizzard's writers seem to have wanted out of their games for the past few years. I really wonder if they're able to write something like Warcraft 3 or Starcraft's multiple factions approach, or even to the point of World of Warcraft's Horde versus Alliance dynamic without it collapsing into "everyone fight against the big evil guy!" I'm not saying that their games' writing was particularly good before, but they really seem to want to avoid confusing the player with any depth to the villains nowadays. It's happened with WoW's expansions, it was always true in Diablo, and now it's true in Starcraft.
I'd quibble about it being "fine". "Okay" or "mediocre" is closer IMO; the big issue with SC2 and its expansion is not the lack of character personalities as it is in most games but rather the inconsistency of them.irishda said:
Honestly, a long-term struggle with Kerrigan struggling to not lapse back into the Queen of Blades could be a very interesting story foundation. It probably wouldn't have made any difference in gameplay, but it pretty much got sidelined by saving Princess Raynor and the revenge plot against Mengsk. To the writers' credit, it wasn't completely abandoned - but it was a very big leap for her to go right back to embracing the Zerg (and undid the entire finale of Wings of Liberty.)
I still find it depressingly amusing that one-dimensional revenge against Mengsk only became a significant character motivation after she regained her humanity and empathy; as the "Queen *****" in Brood War, she was the one who let him out of his cold sleep and let him regain power in the first place. It would have been a hell of a lot more efficient to kill him right there. Not that that change in behavior is completely unjustifiable; it just goes against the recurrent theme of "Aww, Kerrigan's no longer as bloodthirsty any more."
And the constant succession of characters within the plotline being hamfisted into the role of evil cardboard-cutout villains is quite grating, but is completely standard for what Blizzard's writers seem to have wanted out of their games for the past few years. I really wonder if they're able to write something like Warcraft 3 or Starcraft's multiple factions approach, or even to the point of World of Warcraft's Horde versus Alliance dynamic without it collapsing into "everyone fight against the big evil guy!" I'm not saying that their games' writing was particularly good before, but they really seem to want to avoid confusing the player with any depth to the villains nowadays. It's happened with WoW's expansions, it was always true in Diablo, and now it's true in Starcraft.
I played through Wings of Liberty's six hour campaign in a dream like haze and I honestly couldn't tell you a single thing about the story except the most shocking thing about it, where SPOILERS AHEAD....... Kerrigan is turned back into a human.
Then I see the trailer.. and apparently she's a Zerg again? .... so, in the end, what exactly was the point of the last game if literally the only thing I remember about it's story is that Kerrigan became a human again.
Then I see the trailer.. and apparently she's a Zerg again? .... so, in the end, what exactly was the point of the last game if literally the only thing I remember about it's story is that Kerrigan became a human again.
Other people have replied to this and talked about what's actually bad about the story, but on top of that, it's just really contrived and cheesy. It's like someone went down the big checklist of sci-fi tropes and went "Ancient aliens returning to destroy the universe - check. Ancient powerful alien technology/artifacts - Check. Chosen one who for some arbitrary reason is the only one who can stop the ancient aliens - check." It's the same problem a lot of people had with Mass Effect.BanicRhys said:
Also, the cutscenes weren't so much storytelling as over the top dragonball Z fights. Seriously, look at this
They show us cutscenes of kerrigan riding a nydus worm that's eating fireball-throwing shapeshifter and then expect us to take the story seriously? The whole level preceeding that is basically the Harry Potter expelliarmus thing from Goblet of Fire.
There is exactly one good cutscene in heart of the swarm, and it's this one
inb4 "Durr hurr, Starcraft 2 story sucked, they don't know what they are talking about"...
*Looks at comments* To late....
Oh well, I really love the stories Blizzard tells with Starcraft. Their not master pieces by any stretch of the means, at most they kind of remind me of watching the Star Wars prequels, but hey....I liked the Star War prequels in their overall badness. Starcraft 2 HoTS is no different in that regard, it's fun, entertaining, and anyone looking for anything more than that in a Blizzard game should play something different or get off your high horse.
Gah, why am I typing this out anyways. People are still going to complain anyways. Oh well, I like the story, if given the chance, this would totally be something I do for like a "Game Defense Force" video, explaining why the story isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.
*Looks at comments* To late....
Oh well, I really love the stories Blizzard tells with Starcraft. Their not master pieces by any stretch of the means, at most they kind of remind me of watching the Star Wars prequels, but hey....I liked the Star War prequels in their overall badness. Starcraft 2 HoTS is no different in that regard, it's fun, entertaining, and anyone looking for anything more than that in a Blizzard game should play something different or get off your high horse.
Gah, why am I typing this out anyways. People are still going to complain anyways. Oh well, I like the story, if given the chance, this would totally be something I do for like a "Game Defense Force" video, explaining why the story isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.
Blizzard writes good camp, but it's still camp. Characters are overwrought, the plot is clumsily tied together but they're trying so gosh-darned hard to be epic that it's hard not to think it's cute.
Considering, I'm not surprised Diablo III evacuates Leah as early as it does, because it's painfully obvious that they're going to push for some "damsel in distress" expansion-slash-DLC material.
Save Leah! A whole new Act! New suffixes and prefixes, new socketables, new skills, new classes! The same old rigmarole from Lord of Destruction, plus two new cinematics! Yay!
It doesn't change the fact that I'm not going back to D3 any time soon. I want to earn my freaking weapons and gear; not spend hours idling around after authenticating because I'm stuck waiting for some item or another Joe Blow assured me would best fit my Level 62 Monk.
As for HotS, I can't say I'm surprised. Raynor looses Kerrigan again and he has the sads, while she in turn gets her ass kicked and is potentially redeemed for good in Legacy of the Void. There just wouldn't be much in the way of campaign material if the fans were told you were going to play as some faceless Overmind. Ergo, Sarah has to turn coat for the sake of basic gameplay.
Considering, I'm not surprised Diablo III evacuates Leah as early as it does, because it's painfully obvious that they're going to push for some "damsel in distress" expansion-slash-DLC material.
Save Leah! A whole new Act! New suffixes and prefixes, new socketables, new skills, new classes! The same old rigmarole from Lord of Destruction, plus two new cinematics! Yay!
It doesn't change the fact that I'm not going back to D3 any time soon. I want to earn my freaking weapons and gear; not spend hours idling around after authenticating because I'm stuck waiting for some item or another Joe Blow assured me would best fit my Level 62 Monk.
As for HotS, I can't say I'm surprised. Raynor looses Kerrigan again and he has the sads, while she in turn gets her ass kicked and is potentially redeemed for good in Legacy of the Void. There just wouldn't be much in the way of campaign material if the fans were told you were going to play as some faceless Overmind. Ergo, Sarah has to turn coat for the sake of basic gameplay.
Even if I don?t exactly consider star craft 2 or really any blizzard game to have a good story I still agree with what he said.
I kind of wish that blizzard went full self parody or at least realized there basically making a Big budget B movie(i know thats contradictory) and played all of the clichés for laughs.
I kind of wish that blizzard went full self parody or at least realized there basically making a Big budget B movie(i know thats contradictory) and played all of the clichés for laughs.
You know what? No, Starcraft 2 doesn't have writing that'd make Stephen Fry be overcome with paroxyms of delight, but you can count the number of videogames that could on one hand. Its perfectly functional for the story it has to tell and Kerrigan does go through an arc. It may not be the arc you wanted from your fanfic of choice but it is, nevertheless an arc. And its a better arc than Blizzard needed to staple onto the side of the multiplayer upgrade they could have gotten away with and still sell a bazillion units in Korea. She's struggling with keeping regained humanity, grief makes her not care about losing regained humanity, love helps remind her that her humanity is worth keeping hold of. Its not Tolstoy, but know what else isn't? Star Wars, but thats still good. Bad writing is not a barrier to something being good.
I'm really not trying to be a Blizzard fanboy apologist (cause their only product I still enjoy is SC), and I found the whole section with the proto-Zerg frigging ridiculous, but I didn't care. The story and cinematics were fun, and it filled in the gaps between the fun missions of a fun game that I'm very glad I bought. Is it Bioshock Infinite? No. But its not trying to be, its trying to be Flash Gordon, so roll with it people. Think about the writing from the first game (SC1, not WoL) objectively without rose-tinted nostalgia, is it that polished? Nope. So why does it matter this time around? Let the fun dross be fun dross! Group hug! Hug it out!
I'm really not trying to be a Blizzard fanboy apologist (cause their only product I still enjoy is SC), and I found the whole section with the proto-Zerg frigging ridiculous, but I didn't care. The story and cinematics were fun, and it filled in the gaps between the fun missions of a fun game that I'm very glad I bought. Is it Bioshock Infinite? No. But its not trying to be, its trying to be Flash Gordon, so roll with it people. Think about the writing from the first game (SC1, not WoL) objectively without rose-tinted nostalgia, is it that polished? Nope. So why does it matter this time around? Let the fun dross be fun dross! Group hug! Hug it out!