Starfinder: new PnP sci-fi RPG from Paizo

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Starfinder is basically Pathfinder set in space and it looks to be pretty awesome. Standard fantasy has really bored me for awhile now to the fact that I really couldn't care less about any video games with the setting from Elder Scrolls to Dragon Age. The setting in pen and paper RPGs is bearable due to the actual role-playing, more open-ended nature of the game, no grinding or fetch quest BS, and playing with friends of course. I'm definitely interested to see the races as the classes should be along the lines of stuff found in Mass Effect or Star Wars RPGs. Starfinder will release at GenCon next week, which I will be working.

 

[American Fox]

PnP...

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I really wish paizo was makeing stuff for D&D 5e. I mean I understand why they are not, but the pathfinder system is just so bloody complex. They took an already complex D&D 3e and bolted on a ton more. StarFinder looks neat, but I know there is no way I will find the time and the people to learn it. That Said I have liked what I have seen. Only thing I am slightly worried about is ship combat. From what I hear it sounds like a lot of extra systems pilled on.

 

[spartandude]

Snip

I get that. But I find that with 3e/3.5/PF the core rules that you absolutely need to know are very simple. It's just the extra stuff that can get lost but from the basics it becomes easier to learn. And at least it's not 4th Edition where everything is so needlessly complex. Or 2nd Edition where some games are incredibly simple and then other times it's like trying to lean Microsoft access while blind.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Snip

I get that. But I find that with 3e/3.5/PF the core rules that you absolutely need to know are very simple. It's just the extra stuff that can get lost but from the basics it becomes easier to learn. And at least it's not 4th Edition where everything is so needlessly complex. Or 2nd Edition where some games are incredibly simple and then other times it's like trying to lean Microsoft access while blind.

I learned 3 and 3.5 back in the day. It is just a different now. I don't want to learn it again. Not when I have other options that are much more elegant. Was 4ed really that complex? I basically left it right as it started, but I think fundamentally it was actually easier to learn. You had complexity more in the huge number of abilities and builds. Though the reason I think 4ed failed was because of the skills.

Skills are actually a good way to judge the systems. 5ed has it's proficiency system. Pathfinder has skill points. Proficiency is a nice simple system with a ton of potential. (Potential that seems to be ignored by the official stuff :S) The pathfinder system is really complex. You have skill points, class skills, synergies, bonuses of all kinds. (I bet you could not list all the possible ways you could buff a skill in pathfinder.) It has all it's potential realized at the cost of just so many rules.

 

[DoPo]

Was 4ed really that complex?

It wasn't. The the main disadvantage is that it relied more heavily on using a battle grid (unlike earlier editions which relied less heavily on it) and it added a lot of skills to the players. That latter part is actually good but the approach should have been streamlined, since it means combat tends to slog when players are trying to decide what to do. The other problem is that it decided to tamper with some sacred cows which, albeit leading to a better functioning game, turned people away.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Only thing I am slightly worried about is ship combat. From what I hear it sounds like a lot of extra systems pilled on.

I'm interested in how ship combat will work as well. I'm sure you can just ignore it if you want as well.

it added a lot of skills to the players... is actually good but the approach should have been streamlined, since it means combat tends to slog when players are trying to decide what to do.

The problem with 4e's combat and why it is a slog is because of the increased HP pools while lowering damage output at the same time. Thus, an encounter takes at least twice as long if not longer than it did in 3.X. Unless you have a good DM that house-rules the HPs and/or damage, combat is going to be slog once you get past the very early levels. I recall my DM hitting my wizard with something that would possibly kill a wizard in 3.X only taking half my health in 4e. Deciding what to do wasn't eating time for my group as we were all veteran players even though we were just playtesting like level 15 or so characters in like our 2 session of 4e. Halfway through an encounter we all (PCs and DM) saw that the PCs were going to easily win the encounter but it was going to take at least another half hour to an hour to actually win because our damage output wasn't high enough nor could the DM hit us with really anything that strong to make us feel like our lives were in jeopardy. Every miss by the PCs basically elicited an "urgh" because we all knew it was only making the fight longer and nothing else. It seemed like 4e wasn't even playtested.

 

[DoPo]

The problem with 4e's combat and why it is a slog is because of the increased HP pools while lowering damage output at the same time.

You are right. At lower levels the high HP is really a grindfest, at higher levels it is indeed the choices that take up a lot of time, since you can deal with enemies easier but you could just do it in so many ways. I think the HP thing was a side effect of the designers wanting to make the powers more useful.

 

[Comic Sans]

I've been playing Pathfinder with friends for years and as such we are pretty excited for this. A few friends have this preordered and one is already planning a campaign. It's especially good timing since the game I was running fell apart due to issues with player attendance so this will be the fix I need.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I'll probably pick it up ... but I think the title is derivative, bland, and sounds dumb. I get that they're trying to make it as easy as possible for people to connect the products together so that that might drum up additional uptake, but geeze. Hopefully they put that unspent creativity into game mechanics.