State of Indie

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Let me put it this way: Kickstarter is seed money. You're not paying for access to a game, you're helping to fund its creation at a very early stage, with no promise that it will actually get made, just a promise that if it /does/ get made, you'll get the rewards for the tier you bought into.

That's not quite how it works. Remember, if the project does not meet its funding goal, none of the money goes through. If it does, the creator's are legally obligated to deliver that product and all the rewards. But you are correct in your argument that it is different from buying a game on Steam. It's the difference between a customer and an investor.

On a side note, is there no love for indie TRPG's?

That's mostly true, but failing to meet the goal is not what I was talking about. If the kickstarter makes its goal but the product never actually gets made, there's no legal recourse for the backers. It's venture capitalism, except instead of funding a project in return for a percentage of future profits, they fund it in return for the rewards at the various tiers -- which they only get if, once funded, the project actually plays out. The fact that so many people in this thread aren't getting this is proof of how complacent people have gotten because most of the major ones so far have worked out, and effectively all of the ones surrounding videogames have. A lot of that has to do with how massively over-funded successful videogame kickstarters tend to be, though.

Incorrect. If you fail to deliver by the dates you specify, backers can ask for a full refund of which KS's terms obligate you to return. You can always explain the situation and hope your backers are generous enough to allow you an extension, but if they are not, the you are SoL.

Really? I've never heard of that before, what I've heard is that what I posted is the risk you run.

P.S.: I looked it up, and that is what they have to do... but it comes from the people who opened the kickstarter, not from kickstarter the company. Which means if they take the money and use it to pay for a vacation or something, odds are you won't ever actually get your money back. They'll get in legal trouble, but you still probably won't get your money back.

Source: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics

Obviously it doesn't go out and say "you probably won't see your money again if that happens," but it's pretty obvious if you think about it.

Edit: Those rules are also apparently new, as in added in August 2012 (well after the whole thing blew up) new. So when people first started going crazy over it, they didn't even have that recourse.

 

[DragonStorm247]

Let me put it this way: Kickstarter is seed money. You're not paying for access to a game, you're helping to fund its creation at a very early stage, with no promise that it will actually get made, just a promise that if it /does/ get made, you'll get the rewards for the tier you bought into.

That's not quite how it works. Remember, if the project does not meet its funding goal, none of the money goes through. If it does, the creator's are legally obligated to deliver that product and all the rewards. But you are correct in your argument that it is different from buying a game on Steam. It's the difference between a customer and an investor.

On a side note, is there no love for indie TRPG's?

That's mostly true, but failing to meet the goal is not what I was talking about. If the kickstarter makes its goal but the product never actually gets made, there's no legal recourse for the backers. It's venture capitalism, except instead of funding a project in return for a percentage of future profits, they fund it in return for the rewards at the various tiers -- which they only get if, once funded, the project actually plays out. The fact that so many people in this thread aren't getting this is proof of how complacent people have gotten because most of the major ones so far have worked out, and effectively all of the ones surrounding videogames have. A lot of that has to do with how massively over-funded successful videogame kickstarters tend to be, though.

Incorrect. If you fail to deliver by the dates you specify, backers can ask for a full refund of which KS's terms obligate you to return. You can always explain the situation and hope your backers are generous enough to allow you an extension, but if they are not, the you are SoL.

Really? I've never heard of that before, what I've heard is that what I posted is the risk you run.

P.S.: I looked it up, and that is what they have to do... but it comes from the people who opened the kickstarter, not from kickstarter the company. Which means if they take the money and use it to pay for a vacation or something, odds are you won't ever actually get your money back. They'll get in legal trouble, but you still probably won't get your money back.

Source: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics

Obviously it doesn't go out and say "you probably won't see your money again if that happens," but it's pretty obvious if you think about it.

Edit: Those rules are also apparently new, as in added in August 2012 (well after the whole thing blew up) new. So when people first started going crazy over it, they didn't even have that recourse.

Right. In fact, in addition to having to refund everyone in full, KS keeps the percentage that goes to them. So if you fail to deliver, you end up actually losing money.

Now obviously being obligated, and being able to give everyone their money back are not the same thing. But in principal this is how it works.